Hot Holidays
 

Meat's still teasing us with a Christmas Album. What would your ideal track list be?

Merry Christmas
Proctorloaf.

1. First Noel / Baby it's Cold Outside
2. Rockin' around the Christmas Tree
3. Lonely This Christmas
4. Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer / Run Run Rudolph
5. Blue Christmas
6. Here Comes Santa Claus
7. Silent Night / Have yourself a Merry Little Christmas
9. Fairytale of New York
10. Santa Clause is Coming To Town
11. I'll Be Home for Christmas / It's Beginning to look a lot like Christmas
12. White Christmas / We Wish you a Merry Christmas

"Speaking in Tongues" with the unused Christmas tree verse that popped up at a Jim-related concert a few years back. :-P It wouldn't be a Meat Loaf Christmas album without a) something in typical "Meat Loaf" style and b) a contribution from Jim.

Paradise by the Christmas Tree Lights:-)

Well first it would need a name change, no doubt depending on the record label it was released on etc etc,,, one hell of a christmas to you or something like that.

I don't like the Hot Holidays title either. Too PC and since Meat doesn't do PC it would need the word Christmas in the title. ;-)

Can we not just have a normal album? A Xmas album fills me with dread...lets face it most Xmas songs are terrible!

If there isn't more promotion by someone other than Meat himself most people won't know it exists (see We Are, Braver Than). A lot of people also don't care for Christmas songs, yet the radio stations start playing them before Thanksgiving and some play them 24/7 so somebody likes them I suppose. I don't know what their listeners who don't care for it do for over a month

They dont sell anymore, where the novelty of Meat doing xmas songs may seem fun and different.

It would most likely be produced by Paul with very little vocal touching up.

No thanks. I hate how meats stuff has been done.

Hate how his marketing has been and just dislike everything he's put out after the perfection that was HCTB. with only a handful of song exceptions.

I don't need this at all.

That GATW video just left me with such a bad taste I don't want anymore.

I prefer my Christmas playlists meat free

"Hot Holidays" or another title ... it doesn't matter to me - I'll simply be happy with another Meat album. :-)

Bet you're glad you started this one eh? :lol::lol: Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ;)

I was thrilled when Meat first said he'd be doing a Christmas album :-) Still keeping fingers crossed it comes to pass, and I love the idea that he'll finish with a festive album of collaborations.

I'd certainly love Fairytale of New York, and would adore O Holy Night, Lennon's Happy Xmas (War Is Over), and then perhaps some more upbeat songs you can dance to like All I Want for Christmas Is You, or Step Into Christmas. However, I'm sure Meat has his own ideas and will deliver something rocking that I love .. I'm a Meat Loaf fan, I love Christmas .. what's not to love? ;) And he's pretty good at deciding titles, so I'll leave that to him too.

Can't think of anyone better than Paul to produce it; he and Meat work so well together, and both times they've done this together have come up with something that's different and that I love. Still play HIAH all the time, and still blown way by Braver.

If it happens it will be my best Christmas present. Why? Because I'm a Meat Loaf fan, would love another album, would love a Christmas album .. Simples! :D:D

Merry Christmas to you too Proctorloaf :-)

With reference to Wario's point regarding Paul Crook's production skills this is possibly slightly unfair as the songs on HIAHB & Braver are simply not not as good as previous albums. So having a good producer is like putting "lipstick on a pig"!

'Ill give you that point in regards to the songs.

With the exception of Giving Tree, Live or Die, Stand in the Storm, Fall From Grace, and Dirty Job i dont see what makes the stuff tehse last two albums so great.

But still im not a fan of his production. It sounds at times too plastic and lifeless.

A Meat christmas album back in 2001 when he wasnt doing much besides NOTP yes. now not so much

I thought Braver was much better produced than HIAH. GATW is for me superb and I can't think of much that could have been improved there. I think some things on the rest of the album indeed could have been better, mostly backing vocals, female vocals and some of the instrumentation (more focus on piano/drums). In my opinion producers who Meat worked with one off on WTTN and CHSIB and indeed Rob Cavallo overall did a better job. With Cavallo definitely being the best producer besides the Steinman/Rundgren team who Meat has worked with. I think Paul Crook's production quality is on par with Desmond Child's. Something like that quality but different in areas. If Paul Crook had perhaps got Rundgren to help with backing vocal arrangement (no singing anymore for him as he now sounds terrible) Braver would have been a bit better still. But for me Braver is still a really good album. Definitely Meat's best in over a decade for me personally. There is a lot of passion in it (and better songs) that is more important than just the production quality for me. Heck if one can enjoy Springsteen's Nebraska album (recorded on a cheap cassette multitracker) then it is clear that production doesn't always matter.

Could Cavallo do a better job with Christmas songs for Meat? Yes I'm sure. But I doubt he will work on that. His production output has dried up for the last few years it seems and he sold his mansion with recording studio where HCTB was recorded.

That's partly because of moving up in the world. Shortly after the HCTB-related slate, he was named CEO of Warner Bros. Records.

Yep I felt Meat screwed up in the late 90s early 2000s he never really capitulised on his Bat 2 success.

Wario on behalf of the forum can I say happy Christmas and thank you so much for all the work you have done bringing Meats music to life. It really is appreciated by me and most people on this forum (even though some won't admit it). Thanks again.

If I recall correctly from a Meat interview when it was going to be "Brave and Crazy" he said they were getting 2 Jim songs and hope for 3. He said they had already cut 3 tracks and were working on 3 more. I may have misunderstood but I assume they had 6 tracks of non-Jim stuff at some phase of being done and were waiting on Jim to provide more if he would. It seemed that they were going to put 3 Jim tracks on an album with up to 6 non-Jim songs.

I don't know at what phase they had cut those tracks but I assume there are some tracks at various stages of being completed from what would have been "Brave and Crazy" plus there are other songs that were said to be on albums that never made it. I'm guessing in the dark here but there is probably enough material to make another non-Christmas album or to use as bonus tracks on some form of compilation.

Given the difficultly of selling music these days and the lack of assistance from the record companies on his recent efforts Meat may just not release anything else as a stand alone new album.

Since Cavallo has moved up in the industry maybe he could help, but I'm not counting on anything especially given Meat's surgeries and the pain resulting from them. I certainly got the impression that he intended BTWA to be his finale in the record business especially since it was done with Jim's involvement. It kind of makes a full circle.

Yes, he screwed up .. I mean, what has he really achieved since then? Not much .. unless you consider the 6 albums (all charting 3, 4 or 5 in the UK; I mention this as it IS the UK fan forum) and over 10m sales worldwide, with 6 platinum, 6 gold and a silver disc. I suppose we should perhaps grudgingly allow him the 13 tours to packed arenas and theatres, the 3 residencies .. and making over 30 films, hosting TV shows, appearing in TV series etc

Perhaps his critics could have achieved more as performers, or perhaps he could had he taken their helpful criticism and advice .. we'll probably never know, and he'll have to be content with what he did and hopefully will add to, just as millions of his fans are. Fans like the many thousands who filled the arenas for Last at Bat and projected a solid and almost palpable wall of love at that one man on the stage .. and who'd be there in a heartbeat if he toured here again.

And these refusers are??? I often see people who tune onto Chris' channel thanking him, so who are those who you know that watch it but refuse to admit their appreciation?

I'm fairly sure Meat had not done vocals for any not included in the album at the time he had his first back surgery, so would not have worked on them afterwards, and I think little, if anything, had been done instrumentally on the other songs initially under consideration

It does :-) .. and I believe he means it to be his last main stream album, although there is still the possibility of the Christmas project if he gets the urge to go back into the studio ;)

If Meat wants to do a Christmas album, he should do it and not listen to those who say he shouldn't. That's usually how good things get done. ;-)

A Christmas album might be more likely than a tour.

Apologies for rattling your cage Caryl! Obviously Bat 2 was such a mega success and gave Meat a platform to continue playing to the mainstream. I just felt after WTTN he should have released a proper album instead of a Greatest Hits album. If Meat was allowed to release No Matter What as a single maybe things would have been different?

With regards Wario....I know some on here (who I won't name) often slag off people who put stuff on Youtube.

You didn't rattle my cage .. I just found your comment "Meat screwed up .." another mess on the carpet I decided not to step over, but clean up ;)

I didn't even include his Greatest Hits album, as it wasn't a studio album but a rather splendid compilation issued to coincide with the tour he gave us in '99. So many have been issued without his involvement, sometimes even his knowledge .. he deserved to issue at least one himself. I think CHSIB is one of his best albums, well worth the wait, and much appreciated in Germany and here (where it charted 4)

I am one of those who agrees it is wrong to shove up poor quality clips from live shows against the artists's wishes. Warrio puts up only shows which Meat has given him permission to do, I assume does it well, so I don't criticise him (just as I don't "slag off" those who breach copyright .. simply defend Meat's ownership and decisions on his live material being publicly shown). I have, however, always gone to see as many live shows as I could, and I have never watched one of those on Chris' account. Not being blessed with second sight, the only way I can tell if people "on here" DO is when they thank or compliment Chris.

Let's at least agree on this:

...there's got to be a better title than Hot Holidays, right?

One HELLuvah Christmas
Christmas & Crazy
One Crazy Christmas
Last Noel
Everything Louder Than Every Elf
Hair of the Reindeer
Seize The Reindeers
Casa De Navidad
Hang Cool Kris Kringle
Motorcycles & Mistletoe
Santa 'n' Drums & Rock 'n' Roll
Chestnuts, Yule Log and Mince Pie
A Naughty, Nippy, Nutcrackin' Christmas

...something better than those, right?

We're all ears buddy.

If it's going to happen at all, then it will now be for Dec 2017,, which is a long time to sit around speculating!

Given Meat's album release delays the last 10 years, I think Dec 2020 is more likely. :lol:

Wow Caryl...you have never watched a single clip of Meat on Wario's YouTube channel?

I didn't actually write that; I referred to live concert footage. But apart from the one Chris put together for The Painted Turtle based on CA, I don't believe I have. I repeat, I don't watch concert footage on YT (although if I did I would choose his channel as he only puts on things Meat has agreed to) .. and I have all Meat's albums.

I think you're missing out Caryl. Fair enough there is some dodgy stuff, but there is also some great stuff on there both sound and picture.

Slagging happened a lot a couple years ago, but when meat went out of his way to make sure my channel wasn't taken down, it was a great feeling. Doing a weekly RedPony Youtube purge he accedently strikes my channel and we resolved it. Caryl I respect doesn't like bootlegs, no matter if meats ok with the nostalgic ones being up or not. I respect that.

I do know of who u speak there are more than a couple but it's more me rather than the fact it's a bootleg. I am a very polarizing member.

Even the dodgy stuff is what it is, st Petersburg sucks quality wise but damn that voice. Flushing Meadows too. Dortmund 96 is the worst but it's the only full WTTN tour show we got. But it's rare video and nostalgic to Meat and past band members.

I don't post unless it's something really good. I don't bug meat with every little recording I get to put up.

On topic I always felt a great and much better title for this album would have been Oh Holy Hell.

When I said "dodgy stuff" I was referring to YouTube as a whole Wario. Your channel is absolutely brilliant and it's a pleasure to watch/listen to rare footage.

Thanks again

For pity's sake .. I am not "missing out". Nightinr, you asked a question dripping with raised eyebrows and incredulity .. I answered. Nor have I suggested Chris does not have either great or rare stuff, doesn't provide something many fans love etc. But it's not compulsory to watch concerts on YT, sitting in front of a computer screen, when I have excellent recall.

This started when you referred to people watching Chris' channel but, according to you, denying it. As I said, not being blessed with second sight, the only way I can tell if people "on here" DO is when they thank or compliment him .. and many do this; the reason I don't is because I am not one of these closet watchers you seem so able to identify.

Thanks dear :-) Just as I respect you have an understanding with Meat and know now without asking every time what he'll be OK with. And you are right .. you are a polarising character :lol: You know I love your zest for what you do .. and am not beyond swatting you gently on the nose at times ;)

I'm sure Hot Holidays is simply the working title Meat has in his head, and IF it sees the light of day on the shelves he will have something quite different on the cover ;)

Alright, here's one: A Snowball's Chance. It references the "hell" aspect without getting inappropriate for a Christmas album, and it manages to be irreverent without being crude whilst still working in some winter imagery. Could even become the title for an original Christmas song (when's the last time one of those has come along?) in the same spirit as the title suggests.

Thoughts? ;)

It's not the albums that are the problem for me. It's the F###### promotion!

It's an interesting point regarding the promotion. Meat worked hard both in the UK and US to promote Braver however he seemed limited to daytime, minority TV channels and radio. Not sure if this is Meat's managements/record company fault or TV execs of the big programmes not willing to have him on anymore?

I think we covered the GATW video shambles on another thread!

I'm no expert on promo- how else could Meat/record company improve the exposure to Braver or potential new albums?

*Puts on criticism cap*

I'm no expert either but to me it seemed the online element was pretty much missing and what was there was badly managed.

Besides Meat and his assistant tweeting and Facebooking themselves there was nothing. Nothing to see on YouTube, nothing decent with regards to a new / nice website.

The clips appeared on an old record company website. The record company doesn't update its own Facebook page either. Then some tracks appeared on Soundcloud and these were never embedded on Meat's own website. A 20 minute job at most with WordPress.

Random mistakes where the music was released on iTunes and then pulled.

In addition the pledge stuff was badly managed and seemed a bit of a weird hindsight money making thing rather than pledging for something that doesn't exist yet (which the platform surely is for), with bizarre excuses about delays of the products and I regret forking out a lot of money on something I still haven't got. If anything the pledge thing should have been dedicated towards a proper GATW video if the record company / other sponsors couldn't be arsed putting up any money.

The online element pretty much seemed to be resorted to selling / making money only rather than using a lot of opportunities (including free tools) to actually tell people about the product.
I bet the negative TV performances publicity helped sales somewhat but this surely wasn't their "expert" approach relying on that.

Shame and I honestly think several of us fans could have done a better job in certain areas (the disastrous video and website etc).

Website is a total joke. I appreciate these things aren't as important as they used to be but that is no excuse. For many searches relating to the album Adje's site comes up first!
The problem then is this and I DO think that THIS type of stuff matters:


http://media.mlxxfc.net/meatloaf-googleresults.jpg

If there was a lot of content on the Meat Loaf site about the album that review would have been pushed further down in these type of results for sure.
Notice how the extract on the 4th place is only text that Google can crawl and is actually related to the relating merchandise and not the album itself or its release !
Google is clever enough to put things together knowing this is indeed the new album, that is the official site and that is a related extract. But even 1 paragraph of text about the actual album release on the official site would probably have pulled that result to the 3rd place I reckon.

Damn shame this was not better organised to potentially increase the sales by even a few thousand where possible.

*Takes off criticism cap and waits for dislikes from those who think everyone did an excellent job and everything was done perfectly*

If I disliked your post, they'd have to come around and put me in a straitjacket.

Yep all valid points Andrew. The online situation has been a shambles for 20 years. Surprisingly really because Meat seems relatively technolgical advanced for somebody of his age. Surely his management team and Meat himself has to take some responsibility for a terrible website that isn't updated. As for Facebook, twitter I tend to find these are only updated on a regular basis when Meat has something to sell (or am I being too cynical?!)

Exactly. Generally anything but 1981, 2007 - present is acceptable.

and yeah, HH always seemed to sound like a temp title.

Doesn't have the creative flair as a final title should.

Meat is one of the only American artists I know who actually personally responds to FB posts.

Unfortunately usually it is when there are negative comments.
Sometimes however good questions bring up some great insights he happily seems to share which is great.

But I agree it is bizarre that his savvy online presence never resulted into a far more organised creative outpouring of digital media.

His website could easily contain details of all albums with links to iTunes / Amazon (and get a small kickback), all lyrics, all official videos (with a better YT account!) and some news updates (which should never have been deleted since 2006). And this could have been achieved and updated at a small cost.

small correspondence has been made a couple years back about his website and him giving me live exclusive stuff to put up there

nothings ever materialized. i am still open to it and wont charge a staggering amount

Ill promote hes next album ( if there is one )

marketing just needs to be better in general

Better? O_o

How about next to existent!!

I quite liked Paradise by the Christmas tree lights :lol:

Braver has been listed on a lot of worst album lists for 2016

It's sad I don't have much to defend that :(

I totally see why people hate it.

The more I listen to it the more I dislike it

Now all I really like is GATW, Dirty Job and souvenirs. Don't even care for More anymore

Although I can see where you are coming from the fact next to no time and/or money was spent on online work means that more people will see your type of criticisms rather than the positives which so easily could have been advertised (Proper music video / stuff including clips / studio photos / stories / interviews / competitions on ML website etc. etc.)


On top of all this I really think the pledge stuff has been shameful.
Never received the lithograph.
Doubt it ever existed.
A con just like the mid 1990s "official Meat Loaf fanclub" was. :mad:
Again more negative-related presence online which could have been avoided. The comments on the pledge site suggest it is not just me who hasn't received the thing. I doubt after all this waiting even when it does turn up it is worth a fraction of the cost. Regret buying it.

A very messy handling of what should have been a positive celebration of a final album.

I'm glad however I like the album so much and gave me quite a bit of joy (especially listening to GATW in full for the first time, felt like listening to Bat out of Hell live).
If for me Braver was in the same league as HCTB / HIAHB (I'm glad I found Braver SOOO much better) I would be quite depressed about Meat Loaf's music now. On that note I feel sorry for you Wario and other disappointed fans.
But it is what it is I guess, just a shame the non album stuff & everything beyond Meat's own personal promo has been dealt with like a total disaster. The final album deserved better.

If the same marketing approach would be taken for Hot Holidays then you gotta wonder what the point would be. But sure if Meat wants to do it, by all means I'd be interested in buying it.

But I realistically think this album is probably not going to happen.

The more I listen to Braver the more I love it, the more I admire its groundbreaking concept, the more I agree with Meat and Jim.

However, I totally thought this thread was about the possibility of a Christmas album. Of course, as Meat and the recording companies are apparently so inept, he may not bother to go ahead with it .. but I still hope so .. whatever the title. It would be Meat, it would be Christmas rock 'n roll, and would give me huge pleasure :-)

Agreed GATW, Dirty job and souvenirs are the only songs I listen to. The second half of the album is awful. I do think GATW is great though and remains fresh however many times you listen to it. I'm afraid to say on reflection this is potentially the worst Meat Loaf album of all time.

Understand where you are coming from but for me Braver is like a 9 and HCTB is like a 3 and HIAHB a 5 if I had to compare only these 3. And I say that whilst I think HCTB has best production & best vocals. HIAHB worst production, medium vocals and Braver medium production and worst vocals.

I liked HCTB Andrew as an album but it did lack a killer song which Braver does have in GATW. Felt HIAH was okayish but don't feel the urge to listen to it again.

It would be boring if we all agreed!

True and no point talking on here if we did. Might as well talk to a mirror. ;)

I googled "worst albums of 2016". Here's the top 6 hits. No Meat, No Braver :D Lots of other modern popular artists thought ;)

http://www.albumoftheyear.org/ratings/worst/2016/
http://www.albumoftheyear.org/ratings/worst/2016/1
http://ca.complex.com/music/2016/12/...t-albums-2016/
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/07/01...-to-kanye-west
http://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/2...iewers-1913170
http://www.billboard.com/photos/7639...vers-of-2016/2

Yes, I searched to find all these worst albums of 2016 lists it's apparently listed on and came up empty handed too ;)

I love Braver Than We Are and still listen to it every day.

I remember Meat saying that Hot Holidays was going to be an album of Christmas duets ... and I would give anything to hear him singing along with Garth Brooks / Trisha Yearwood or Reba McEntire :D

I think HCTB is a real rocker and the production is great

Nothing will beat HCTB and CHSIB imp. The two millennium records by Meat I will always stand by and love and cherish.

Most of those sites don't know it exists aha

Trying to recall when the last Meat Loaf album was well promoted aside from Meat doing it pretty much single-handed. Maybe WTTN?

I don't think the Christmas album is likely unless it is just something Meat has a passion to record. He was very happy with Braver and traveled the world making appearances but I have not seen any sales figures. I like it and Meat and Jim love it, so it is what it is. Not a perfect album, but I never expected it to be, especially with Meat ailing, and Jim's limited involvement and age of the material. They gave it their best shot.
I still wonder if Jim could have produced Braver what the album would be like, of course Jim would probably sill be tinkering with it for a few more years.

Bat 3 was promoted well enough, they just stopped then all of a sudden.

What marketing do you want? Past Meat Loaf albums have had Tv adverts but realistically Meat no longer has the mainstream popularity to warrant that cost.

Fundamentally the first single markets the album....AFL made people buy Bat 2. Since WTTN Meat hasn't had a killer single unfortunately.

I think people really liked the epic gothic like Meat Loaf videos and I feel more of these would really pushed it

Nothing ever stays the same

If Meat's back wasn't so effed, he could have done this.

But check his latest comments on his recent Facebook Page posts.

He says stuff like "I had spinal fusion. I don't know if i'll ever even be able to do TV or film again" and "I'm not sure if i'll ever work again". Go read for yourself in the comments. I'm sure as hell not posting here!

His back is so bad they're not sure he can even act - What does that tell you about Meat's capacity to do an epic, large production music video?

At this point, the Stage isn't even mentioned. At this point, Meat's done on the stage folks. I don't count him out forever because I'm an optimist at heart, but this is the current situation. IT sucks.

No, Meat needs to focus on his health and get better...

IMO, it should be about what's good, not about how old people are and because they had hit singles 25 years ago or whatever. One of the best examples of that for me actually IS Meat Loaf in 1993. I know it's the way of things, but I just don't get it. And I thought "Who needs the young?" was a comment on that too, and could have been really funny.

I just refuse to believe, personally, that there hasn't been any singles that couldn't have been big like something in the 90s, because every single album has had that moment for me, including the new one. The GATW edit was awful, but that could have been easy. Just edit out the first two movements of the songs, like seeing an image from Bosch and realizing later that it's a part of a triptych painting.

Meat's had a second major back surgery in a relatively short time frame, and is still often in considerable pain, something he has had more than his share of and which he must be so damn tired of. He has good days and bad days, and is perhaps not forcing the pace of his rehab as he did after his knee and first back surgery, which is good. He is working hard on weight loss which is good and will help, and wants to support the opening of Jim's musical. I agree that more touring seems very unlikely now, but I think his need to express himself as an artist will mean he's far from giving up all working, but also perhaps as frustrated with regular enquiries as to when he'll be appearing in Cowflap or Little Muggling as he is with the long road of rehabilitation .. hence some of his comments ;)

And even if he were fit as a flea, he's said the record companies just don't offer the big budgets that epic scale music videos require.

It is horrid that he's having to face such a battle with pain and rehab, but it's good that he IS focusing on himself and not pushing himself to defy doctor's orders as he has done in the past. But like you, I have faith in his huge capacity for living his life and fulfilling his creative need. He will have days when he fears he may never work again .. and those when his head will be full of plans and ideas. He needs time :cool:

Amen to that :-)

Yep let's hope he gets well soon. If anybody can beat these setbacks it's Meat!