Autograph Discussion
 

Mods note: This convo has been moved from this thread here as it may be more interesting to a collectors point of view :up:
F.M.
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Seems a bit daft to me that people ask Meat to sign something and then part with it immediately. I'd prefer to think of his signature on something as more of a personal touch really. Rather than something I could ever sell. :shrug:

Thats cause youre diehard. Most people get autographs for the coin involved. If I wasnt big into meat Id sell the sucker. Just cause money's money. And im a college student :shrug:

Some may do .. but MOST? You have no basis for that statement Warrio. You don't have to be "diehard" (whatever the f that means) to want to keep a signed item as a souvenir. If "most" people sold "the suckers" eBay would be awash with signed items .. thousands upon thousands.

It's like saying "everyone puts bootlegs on YT" .. another fallacy. Our of some 150,000 people who went to shows this tour, I doubt 200 bootlegs found their way to YT.

The tour programmes weren't being sold, and relatively few people would have got them signed imo. Meat wasn't signing things generally at the M&G, and after a show is generally too exhausted to do lengthy autograph sessions at the stage door in the freezing cold and damp.

I often wonder how genuine some of those being sold by specialists are. Selling signed photos for significant figures seems daft when you can buy one from Meat's site which you know is genuine. There will be quite a number of signed CDs around I guess from tours where Meat has given them as part of M&G packages, but most people don't go to several M&Gs.

Meat has very kindly signed a number of 12" album sleeves and CD inserts for us to sell to raise money for TPT .. and those ARE genuine ;)

Well actually my cousin is in the Ebay-Celebrity autograph selling business. Guess most wasnt the correct thing to say but ALOT of people sell the stuff. Its a huge huge community that does it. Hes told me most people sell. youll be surprised. More people find personal value in a picture and sell the autograph.

Then I query his use of the word "most" too!

ya I know.... Personally tho i would sell something signed to me by someone famous. If I wasnt a huge huge fan of them. I mean economy these days..... :shrug:

Personally I wouldn't hang around trying to get something signed if I didn't value the artist and want to treasure it

Funny that, just the other day I mentioned that photos with a famous person seem to be the more personal version of an autograph these days.

That's how I view it I guess also, to a point. As in, I don't mind a good autograph too ;)

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The only thing I ever get signed is my pics with Meat, not really interested in signed merch as it all ends up looking the same :?

I think it depends on what you have signed. I've got a couple of things that Meat has signed that mean far more to me than the photos that were taken at the M&G's. A lot of that might be down to the fact that out of four M&G's, I only have one photo that I don't think I look completely awful in.

Signed items and their sentimental value is a matter of personal preference, for some I guess they are just something that can be sold one day to make a bit of cash, to some others they may be something you'd never consider parting with for as long as you live.

Perhaps for some people it is just the thrill of the chase. You are in the right place at the right time and you get someone's autograph. You really don't care who the person is but if it is someone really famous is is a great story to tell your friends for a day or two and then selling the autographed item is a lovely little bonus! :) I've never been into autographs but the only one that I do have from Meat is very special to me and it isn't going anywhere!!!

I agree with you there (diesnt stop me buying signed merch/getting autographs anyway, for some silly reason) but I meant getting pics with people, rather than getting autographs ;)

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Or concert photos that I've personally taken of Meat :-) But I have to admit it was also great having him personally autograph the cover of my
Storytellers DVD this summer because it was my first Meat Loaf DVD and the one that got me hooked on him and his music. And the autographed CHSIB LP
(signed during the HCTB tour) also looks great hanging on my wall because it's so rare :cool: :D

I have some signed CD's, mostly out of a 'collector's kinda view' although I don't really pay top prices for those. Usually normal CD prices.

I do however have a signed photobook with personal tour photo's from all the concerts I went to (excluding the last tour) which I am pretty found of. Meat signed it in London, february last year.

I'm going to redo the album with the pictures of the last concerts added and have to admit I would love if Meat would be willing to sign that one as well.

Just like Lucy's signed pictures it's more personal and therefor has more meaning to me than just random signed items :cool:

Yes, I agree. Something personal to oneself, a piece of work one has done, something you've seen him sign .. all these are the most special. I'd add though that those of us who have been able to get these are lucky :-) Not everyone can. And my signed copy of THAB which I got at a Storytellers show, know Meat signed, although not for me individually, is still treasured, even though I have been fortunate enough to have many other more personal items signed.

I bid for that one but was outbid in the end - by 25p :roll::evil:

:twisted: Well said 8)

Unfortunatly there are plenty of people who only ask for autographs to sell them on.

I remember being in a record shop years ago where I am well known as a collector of Meat Loaf memorabillia.
The guy at the counter introduced me to a guy who was in the shop that day that worked in the kitchens of a hotel Meat stayed in when he was filming The 51st State.
The guy said he met Meat, who was really nice, and told him to bring stuff to the hotel for him to sign.
The guy brought (no joke) about 20 items into work, and true to his word, Meat siged each and every one.
The bloke told me they were all for sale and offered me an autograph for £25

I'm sure that's not what Meat had in mind when he kindly took the time to work his way through that stack of items :roll:

I didn't own a Meat Loaf autograph at the time, and I didn't buy one of the ones the bloke was selling.

For one, it left a bad taste in my mouth that he was being so mercenary about the items Meat took time to sign.
I think of an autograph given free of charge as a gift. Something personal from that person to you.
Selling it to a fan for cold hard cash seems a little, off :?

I'd like to think that if I had an autograph of someone, and it didn't mean much to me, i'd rather give it to a fan, someone who would really value it, free of charge rather than sell on a gift.
Saying that, if someone launched a ton of cash at me, I might review that stance :bleh:
But i'd certainly never sell (or otherwise part with) an autograph of someone I count myself a fan of.

For another, it wouldn't mean as much to me as it wasn't obtained in person.
Plus, you can never guarentee the autograph is genuine.
The upshot is that I finally got to meet Meat at the Oxford Street signing, and he signed the cover of my vinyl copy of Bat. It's now in a gold frame on my wall, and there it will STAY while there is breath in my body :lol:



But what about the certificate of authenticity? :shock: :bleh:

It's big business alright.
While it's true many autographs come from fans, i'd say that most come from people who got an autograph because they were in the right place at the right time and got an autograph for the hell of it.
Another source of autographs is when they are sold on by the family when the original owner passes away.

I can't see the sence in hanging round a stage door for a couple of hours in the rain just to get an autograph of someone you don't admire just to make a few quid :nuts:

As a footnote to autograph mania, and i've probably mentioned this before, I used to have the weirdest dreams where I bumped into Meat in the strangest situations.
At the end of all these dreams, shortly before waking up, i'd think "I didn't get his autograph :doh: " and start kicking myself :lol:
Met Meat, got autograph, dreams stopped.
Weird huh :shrug:

sorry meatloaf5 that was me , not too sure about that signature though

Hehehe not to worry, I`d set a max bid and there ya go.

It looked legit and and it is from the current tour, not really much time to get a copy done ...

Congrats anyway

I got Meat to sign a photo album for me once but oddly enough it doesn't mean that much to me. I think it's what has been said before: autographs get their importance to the owner if there are special memories connected to the moment of signing.
My book was signed by Meat who was still on the tourbus while I was busy not missing anything going on with the band at the same time. There was so much going on around me that I almost forgot that I gave it to whatwashername....Cheryl? Anyway, his assistant, so that she was waving my book in the air asking who it belonged to :)

If I should ever get so lucky to meet him again - I will decline any offer of signing something and rather ask for a handshake & a smile. Sounds cheesy but I really don't want a second signature to put in my collection.

Has anyone had any part of their person personally signed by Meat Loaf?:-)

Meat doesn't do skin! :lol: I can't count how many people I've seen ask him to sign a body part so they can have a tattoo done over it and he's said no...and I don't blame him!

You know what, I'm entirely with you there. If I have to have something signed then I always choose a personal photo as I know it's something no-one else has, but honestly I'm not even that excited about all of those!

I've always opted to take photos to signing events purely because it would extremely socially awkward to approach Meat at a signing table with nothing to be signed, but at events where he can't sign things (like this tour's M&Gs) it doesn't bother me one little bit, I'd much rather come away with the memories and a brilliant photo than something signed.

I don't blame him either. It could get a bit messy.:-)

Nor me! Wouldn't even ask .. Love him to death, but that would be like branding! :lol:

Like you and Lucy, if he's not offering to sign things it really wouldn't bother me. It's just lovely to have a few words, a smile, and a hug or fist bump depending on how he's feeling about germs! :lol:

But I've had him sign most of the calendars I've produced, and he's usually personalised his signature. Those are very special to me, so were the opportunity to arise? Yes, I'd ask him to sign next year's ;)

So a fist bump is the new hug huh ;) I always wondered what he does to work his way around that...He doesn't openly say he doesn't want hugs in Meat n Greets does he? And you do still get a handshake don't you?
A picture would of course be the perfect memory but not easy to get. Though I suppose he is a lot different when meeting him in non-tour times ? (tapings for TV-shows, film sets)

Yes...although it's not as rude as it sounds!

At the start of the tour he was very tactile - lots of hugs, kisses, handshakes etc...then the band got sick and he openly said he was coming nowhere near any of us (to protect himself and us) and he didn't touch anyone at all, even the pics are of him with his arms folded to stop himself doing it!

As the tour went on he did get a lot more relaxed and by the end we were back to a mixture of handshakes and fist-bumps, and back to arms around people for photos, but he was joking with someone in Manchester and she asked for a kiss and he did have to say "I'm sorry but I just can't go there" - which is fair enough, he didn't know her and the last thing they need is bugs on the plane.

VIPNation brief you before going in .. no grabbing, hugging or trying to kiss. As to handshakes .. it depends. He started off shaking hands .. then they had to postpone two shows .. who could fairly blame him being super cautious after that? At Cardiff he was under instructions not to even put his arm round people during photos, which he clearly found difficult. By the time he was back from Germany, he was putting his arm round people for photos, but not shaking hands. Fist bump is safer than shaking hands, when most germs transfer. How many people would not go in because they thought they might be coming down with something? How many other wouldn't even know they were?

It's Meat you meet at the M&G, a chance to have a brief chat, be entertained by a charming and kindly man. He doesn't openly say he doesn't want hugs, no. He's a very tactile person who would naturally reach out to people. But he hates to let thousands of others down by not being able to perform. There's a joy in meeting him imo .. and the level to which he's relaxed and comfortable with shaking hands, hugging etc or not, doesn't stop it being a great experience .. he doesn't need to be handled like a commodity .. lol.

I doubt he'd welcome it on a film set ;) At TV shows, signings etc .. he's the same friendly, unpretentious, charming and easy man he is at M&Gs. Only thing that could get in the way might be other personnel (eg security at signings/golf tournaments) or one's own expectations I suppose ;)

When he's travelling it's clearly hard for him if people try and grab him (as we heard recently on here) .. he may be in a hurry to get into his hotel, onto the tour bus, catch a plane. He's gracious .. but it's HIS time after all, he's often exhausted, worried about getting into the warm because he stands or falls by his voice, his throat, his sinuses. He's a person .. and however much he cares for his fans (and he does care very much), he has many concerns beyond those who try and get his attention as he's moving through a busy and testing schedule. I think he really understands why they do .. but just wants them to understand why he can't always oblige .. fair really ;)

I think we were typing together there! :lol:

very true, I completely understand why he's doing it. But I think it's a major miracle in my opinion to still make it worthwhile for the "customers" then. Hence I wondered how he approaches the whole issue

lol, yeah I have read he made it a habit to show the Meat n Greeters his knee scars :lol: Or is it his way to make it up to the women for not hugging them? "Well, I could show you my knee in exchange, how's that?" :D

Yes .. :lol: And very consistent ;)

He's very relaxed, informal, friendly and works to put people at their ease so it becomes a memorable experience. He does it with skill, charm, and genuine friendliness .. that's why it works ;) Showing his scars, telling stories, making people laugh .. it's all done to make people feel as if they're meeting a friend rather than a celebrity imo :-)

When I first heard that there would be no contact of any kind at the Cardiff M&G, I did wonder how it would be approached and whether it would affect the experience we had but that M&G ended up being one of the most enjoyable meetings with anyone that I have ever had. Meat was charming, funny and from my perception, he really made everyone on that room feel like they'd had a great time.
I may have mentioned this in my review of the show originally but when he's talking to the group he really did make it seem like he was talking to a group of old friends.

I'm not sure how other artists would have handled the situation but I thought that Meat handled it well and I think everyone left that M&G happy.

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I do think londonautographs on eBay are taking the Michael though .. selling the signed photos from the tour, still on sale on meatloaf.net for £10, at a magnificent:

£59.99 !!

Would you believe that at £59.99 they've actually been reduced from £65.00 :shock:

I did notice thought that the ones on .net aren't signed, same price but just the photo

Aah .. yes, you're right .. I missed that on the .net ones. Meat was signing stock for the shows as he went along, and I guess these are the unsigned residual stock.

But I think they were being sold for £10 at the shows? Certainly it's a massive mark-up, even with the reduction :shock: Some things one hopes won't sell!

Yeah they were £10 at the shows but signed...can't believe people are trying to sell them at 6 times the price, though more fool anyone who spends £60+ on a photo!

How do you think Meat will go if he takes the tour to India or Indonesia? At least the climate is not dry.

I flat out refuse to believe he is going, even from his own mouth!! One word, GERMS!

However, if he went to Indonesia I'd be there in a heartbeat :lol:

Perhaps he has got a deal with his local Indian to perform and they give him free curry?

There are thousands of signed items on-eBay, :lol: although certainly you are correct in that it's not "most" people who are putting them there.

There are "professional" autograph dealers, but I think most people who have a signed item would want to keep it. I have a few autographed items, including a signed copy of "To Hell and Back", but strangely my favorite autograph is Ozzy Osbourne's- on a plain white piece of paper. :lol:

Signed items that you can buy are cool, but I think it's much more meaningful if the signature is a personal one.

The time I met Bruce Springsteen, it never even occurred to me to ask for an autograph or a picture, and I really don't feel like I need either. My memory is enough.

Often times, not very. :roll: Or, they're just hastily scribbled without much thought. The only way to be 100% sure is if you actually see the person sign.

I agree. I think some celebrities have learned to differentiate the fans from the professionals, and act accordingly, e.g. refusing to sign certain items or for certain people.

I was once in Las Vegas with a friend, and she got very excited when someone told us that Pete Rose was signing autographs. She wanted to get one for her son, who is a huge baseball fan. That was until we were also told that he was charging $100 a pop. :roll: I just thought that was disgusting. Needless to say, she didn't bother.

Oh sure :-) I was referring to ones with Meat's autograph .. generally around 50, and many of those from autograph dealers .. eg the one who has bought some signed photos from the merch stand for £10 and is trying to get £60.

Yes .. plus in Meat's case those you know you can trust eg from his merchandise stand, or via his management company. Not sure this has been/would be the case for every celebrity/group, but I trust Meat on signed items absolutely .. one of the benefits of following a performer who doesn't have a few million wild and giddy teenagers mobbing him I guess ;):lol:

Some eBay sellers admit the signature has simply been copied and applied, others don't. And I've seen a few that look remarkably unlike Meat's, even given signatures vary and change over time. I remember Meat pulling one off eBay because he knew the photo and knew he had never signed a copy.

But I do understand fans who will never get the opportunity to have something signed for them in person wanting something with an autograph. Still, they will have the opportunity to buy with confidence from LFTT when we put ours on site, and they won't be at an outrageous eBay cost! ;)

I'd agree that was outrageous .. even from one of those poorly paid professional sportsmen who must be seized constantly with how they're going to pay the power bill :roll:

I don't see a problem: People spend many hours for waiting to get autographs, other give them their money for getting signed things. No one damaged and: "Money makes the world go round". No need for discussion about it. By the way: IMO Meat is a very nice guy and I feel honored to met him personally.

No "need" to discuss perhaps, but on that basis you could strip out the majority of the threads on this forum ;) There's no need to try and anticipate the setlist of a tour, or track-listing of a new album .. but pages get devoted to both topics :lol:

And as Andrew has pointed out, on this occasion no-one waited for many hours to get an autograph. Someone simply walked up to a merch stand, bought some, and promptly put them on eBay.

(Sometimes discussions have a benefit. I recall some years ago there was one on the annoying fact that many found it impossible to get front row seats apart from buying them from profiteers on eBay. Meat was angered by that .. a few months later the introduced the packages ;) )

I had posted my response to Kai H but then decided to delete it. The post does seem a bit hypocritical to me: Whatever happens is fine BUT Meat is a great guy and it is an honour to meet him.

exactly. If you have a gorilla youd wanna poach it then set it free

Trouble is things like signings are capacity/time limited or there's a finite number of wristbands, in these circumstances fans often miss out to the moneymakers which is wrong as for some it's their only opportunity to meet the man albeit briefly.

:twisted: I believe (correct me if i'm wrong) that this tour is the first time autographed photos have gone on sale.

At a tenner, they are pretty good value (certainly better than the stuff that turns up on ebay, most of which is crap) and I think it was a good idea to sell them during the last UK tour as it's pretty much the last chance for folks in the UK to get an autograph.

What I don't like (as many have expressed themselves) is when people buy these autographs with the sole intention of selling them on at big profits.

They're no better than ticket touts.
Vultures.

Yes, they were on sale for a tenner .. very reasonable and imo a really nice idea on a last tour as many fans will never have the chance now to get something signed personally. As you say .. to buy and sell them for the profit this seller is doing pretty vulture-like. But it was still a grand idea to have them on the merch stand this time :)

ehhhh i beg to differ.

Inflating a price on a ticket effects if a person can see a show and it also takes away for some good hearted person to buy the ticket at the cheaper place if its sold out.

Reselling an autograph at a higher price point is unethical, but it doesn't effect someone getting a ticket they deserve more. THeres no real negative impact reselling a legit signature for a higher price.

Probably taking that a little too literally...it's the difference between a person being able to buy the "thing" or not, whether the thing is tickets, merchandise, whatever...

And my wtf Warrio moment for the day .. :lmao:

If I had a gorilla I doubt it would fit in a pan for poaching though ;)

I disagree.
I could sell your house with you in it and everyone would be fine with that except you and your gorilla. Morally it would be wrong even if everyone else is fine with it.

There is a limited supply of these photos. It is not as if they were machine copied. Selling things on for the sole point of profiteering will most likely do someone out of something legit eventually. What I'm saying is you can allow it until the merch stall has no more photos to sell because they all went to profiteers etc. Ie. when/where do you stop. That's the whole point.

Profiteering is morally wrong, and always has some impact surely? There may be differences in the scale of both .. eg arguably the most morally wrong with the biggest impact is the black market purchase and trading of relief food in countries where the people are starving. But arguing that ticket touting is worse or better than profiteering from signed items is a bit of an imponderable. Trying to quantify the impact of this or that form is not simple .. eg who's to say which potential loss is worse to an individual .. the ability to afford a concert seat closer to the stage, or an autographed photo? .. or whether a celebrity might be so irritated by profiteering from sales of something they have habitually either given and/or sold at a low and reasonable price, that they decide simply not to give or sell any in future? Point is you cannot necessarily judge the potential impact .. and it's pretty reprehensible imo, all of it.

I tell ya what else is crap, taking crappy photos during the show, (with watermarks of the date still on them) and selling those on eBay! What tha?

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Wario, I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no idea what you are saying here! :wtf: :lol:

I think you're kind of contradicting yourself here. I actually don't think it's unethical; I look at it like any other collectible. If you had an antique vase or something that you bought and sold for a higher price, there is nothing at all wrong with it. Autographs are considered collectibles by many people, and as such, are "worth" whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Now, that's not to say I approve of the kind of profiteering that Mouse gave in his example, where Meat signed a bunch of items out of the goodness of his heart. (Now I guess I'm contradicting myself somewhat :lol:)

The big problem I have with ticket resellers is the fact that they often resort to unfair means, for example using bots to get tickets that fans then have no chance of getting. It's not a level playing field.

There was an infamous young man who used to follow Bruce around and pester him for autographs, which he often got (reportedly by resorting to some creative means and/or greatly annoying other fans to do so). At first I chalked it up to him just being a zealous young fan, but changed my opinion when his methods and the fact that he was selling and trading those autographs for concert tickets (and then cheating to get into the pit) came out. :roll: I wondered what Bruce might have thought if he ever heard what this kid was doing. I have seen cases where he blatantly refused to sign for obvious "professional" dealers, though he will almost always sign for fans.

They used to post copies of Bruce's handwritten setlists on his website, but that stopped, I suspect because someone had been printing them out and selling them on eBay. :roll: (The selling I know was true, not sure that is the reason they stopped getting posted)

Do people actually do that? I can't imagine anyone would buy them. :nuts:

I don't know whether there's still any listed on eBay like that but there was at one point and what made it laughable was the asking price of something like £8.99.

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Yup

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