New BOOH Not A Sequal, A Continuation
 

People are too hung up about Bat 1 and 2 songs that they lose appreciation for the new stuff. I like the old stuff and like going back to it, but I have to admit these songs have a bombastic nature that are invincible to modern Wagnerian approaches few as they are.

I actually think that Bat Out Of Hell as an album would benefit if Meat and Jim got together and made Bat Out Of Hell - Burned Out.

A sort of update on the original Bat Out Of Hell album and concept. Not a sequel like Back Into Hell or Monsters Loose but rather a continuation a sort of high point to die out.

I would be absolutely fascinated with a Bat Out Of Hell song that continues where the original left off.

I think that is what Bat Out Of Hell 2 and 3 did wrong on the whole idea is that they went off with no particular course but with great songs (well some with more than others).

Bat Out Of Hell - Burned Out as I see it would take a sort of what would happen if the songs from the first album were left on after they were sung. Not all songs would have a direct connection but a little continuity would actually make it a real treat on whole in my opinion.

Bat 2 is a PERFECT album. Case closed. Its utterly perfect in every single freaking way. Its the second act of the symphony and the greatets act.

I view Bat out Of Hell as Three acts: Bat 1, Bat 2, and Hell in a Handbasket. Says it all right there.

Funny given you views and reviews on HIAH I would've thought you'd pick a album you'd be willing to give higher than a 6.9.

of the remaining Hell titles, HIAHB beats out Bat 3 by far imo :shrug:

I just think cause it has Hell in the title doesn't mean it should be counted in, I know you agree cause you didn't acknowledge Monsters Loose as deserving of the title cause of it somewhat poor song choice.

I would've put Dear Ringer in there cause I think it has the same nature of a Bat album cause its all written by the same song writer. And to be honest its more emotional and out of the box than Bat 2. Since Bat 2 was just a recycle bin for Jim's songs that didn't work outside of Meat's killer vocals.

On the whole I'd say Hell 2 was just Jim being too lazy to write new songs. And the fact that the whole album lacked the power of the original brings it down. Why else didn't Meat include those songs in the last at bat tour except for one I believe (off the top of my head).

Not to me. Neither the quality of the songs nor the style of the album. HIAHB in style is closer to BBIS. Something new but... aaaahhhh not what I expect to Bat album. ;)

Lemon, Objects, Frying Pan and Anything for Love is actually quite a fair amount of songs from Bat 2 ;)

And not just that. Frying Pan and Objects considered to be the highlights of Act 1. So perhaps not that lazy or less powerful as you consider them... 8)

Well there is certainly a style difference between the two albums.

My favourite Meat Loaf album is Hell in A Handbasket and I'd imagine that I will probably compare any new albums to it in some way without even realising I'm doing it. I guess it's hard not to get 'hung up' in some way with an album that means something to you.

Bat 4 is gonna be great I reckon

Well ... I like more "Bat Out Of Hell 3 - The Monster Is Loose" than Bat 1. :twisted:

Only if Meat will be happy with the title; if not then we shouldn't force him. You can't force people of free will.

To me "Brave And Crazy" title sounds better.

Bat 2 ,just look at the first 5 songs , wow , I don't don't believe there is another album out there as good

How can you mention Bat 2, Jim and recycle bin in one sentence?

This album is awesome. I love every single song on this album like the songs on BOOH 1, too.

That's actually quite easy:

Last night I was listening to Bat out of Hell 2, with songs from Jim Steinman, while my wife was busy throwing junk in the recycle bin on our PC.

or

Bat out of Hell 2 is a Jim Steinman album that I will never throw in a recycle bin!

or

It's better to listen to Jim Steinman's Bat out of Hell 2 than it is to dress up like a recycle bin and insult the local Hells Angels :lol:

Do I need to continue?

Sorry, just find this para totally bizarre, (even leaving aside the statement "too lazy" which is imo a rather discourteous way of presenting a personal, and imo flawed, assumption). AFL, Objects, Lemon, Frying Pan, R&R Dreams .. all in my view VERY powerful songs. I'd personally add Everything Louder, and Just Won't Quit .. There were 7 tracks on Bat, 11 on Bat 2. I think we got 7 powerful songs on Bat 2.

And AFL, Objects, Frying Pan and Lemon were all featured in The Last at Bat tour. One should bear in mind that Meat's first run through at rehearsals ran over 4 hours .. he was committed to the whole of BOOH for Act 2. The first act had to lead him to Act 2, and be contained within the time it could run. I think in the UK dead Ringer has to be a given in a final tour, Meat wanted to showcase his range of albums while putting together a strong set list, and to feature 3 tracks from Bat 2 in a set list of 8, plus AFL at the encore, shows just how strong the second Bat album is, and certainly contradicts your final point.

Adje has dealt more than adequately with your equally bizzare comment about a magnificent album being a "recycling bin" ;)

How someone can conclude there is lack of power on the album that contains Anything For Love I don't get. It is the most powerful song with the most varied set of dynamics I've ever come across. Lemon is probably the most intelligent written hard rock song ever. I find some conclusions and assumptions in this thread a bit strange but each to their own. I just hope Jim and Meat do whatever the hell they want and what they think will sound good on the new album and not let fans influence things.

Hold the bus...the thread title, "New BOOH not a sequal..."...I didn't know we were getting a new BOOH?!

Yeah, sorry my brain is very slow today. I got it after I posted my answer. :shock:
Thanks. ;)

It Just Wont Quit is the greatest song ever written. Just put that on a disk by itself and its a worthy Bat Out of hell album.

Nor me. I don't think we are. We're getting Meat's new album, with at least 3 songs penned by Steinman. I'm sure Meat has said he has some other songs already.

Not sure I'd say the greatest .. but I do agree it's a magnificent song. Brilliant lyrics penned by Jim, emotionally and powerfully delivered by Meat. Doesn't have to be loud all the way through to be powerful ;)

Yep, that's what I thought I heard him say...I just wasn't aware that Meat+Jim=BOOH :lol:

Without a doubt Meat's vocals are (at least to me) best in music industry :cool:, but ... Jim songs in Pandora's Box versions are also quite good. Even if I agree that Jim is not a good singer, I must admit that his contribution on "Bad For Good" album are very good (for example in songs : "Bad For Good" and "Dance In My Pants" :up: or even (if you think about Bat 2) in "Out Of The Frying Pan").

Agree with the first paragraph ... but the second ... wtf ... ? HIAH the third part of Bat ... ? Until Jim writes the sequel then there is no third act - now waiting for BOOH 4 - or at least The Last At Bat, to finish their careers ...

Jim and Meat together on a album wholly is deserving of a Bat Out Of Hell tag. The purpose of this thread was not to stir up... whatever this is but to have a discussion on what would Bat Out Of Hell be like if they made a continuation of it, kind of like in the James Bond universe how Quantum of Solace continued Casino Royals story.

Yes!!!! It's bat 4,, brave and crazy is just a smoke screen.

I can only hope that last post comes with a serious helping of sarcasm and people aren't really believing this is Bat 4!!

I treating it the same way as "the last tour".

Sony records. Actually want it called bat 4,, so I was told? But my earlier post was an attempt at sarcasm ( how dare I ).

Thank goodness! :lol:

We have already had Bat4. Remember the back cover of HCTB. IV. So the new album should be Bat5.:-)

Smoke screen? :sherlock: ;)

;) :-)

This is ridiculous. :nuts:

Bat out of hell 4. THIS IS RIDICULOUS

Nice title!!!

There is no "Bat 3' as far as I'm concerned. Just a title the record company kept pushing for after Jim left the project. I call it TMIL only, some good songs but not a true "Bat" album. Three Jim songs with him directly involved is much more a "Bat 3" even though it is now called "Brave and Crazy".

A true Bat album would be either Jim producing all the songs even if he chooses stuff by other writers. I know Todd produced Bat I with Jim's input, but Jim's production is far better on Bat II especially the vocals. I never thought the Bat I vocals were Meat's best after hearing him live because they are sped up as Meat mentioned when introducing "2 Out of 3" last summer. He said something to the effect of people expect the song to sound like the record but he never sounded like the record because they sped it up & he can't sing as fast as Alvin the Chipmunk. He did sing one line like Alvin though which was hilarious.

Everybody has a different view on BAT 3!!!! Haha,, look every album sounds different to the next one, production, type or style of songs etc etc,, jim is a fantastic songwriter and a good producer. In fairness jim had years upon years to get bat 2 right, in this day and age people don't get that sort of time anymore. So under such huge and most likely unwanted pressure meat and co did a good job on bat 3, like turning the butcher is king into an actual song was nothing short of genius IMO ( child deserves credit for that ) also seize the night IMO sounded pretty OTT ( just as jim intended ). Plus alive and blind as a bat are some of meats best work IMO. who is to say if they were given 7 years to make bat 3 that they couldn't of have made it fantastic? To a record company BAT is just a successful brand!!! To the us and meat/jim it's a lot more. Lets hope all the songs are great on brave and crazy

And sadly imo you've opened up another debate all over again

one day I will open my eye wide and it will all ring clear, Meat and Jim to record Bat again, get outta here.

Considering that the topic is a "continuation" to "Bat", why is it not relevant to discuss the albums that bear that name? Sadly. IMO.

Sorry misterfive I could not disagree with you more if I was bribed to.

Bat & Bat 2 do not need any updating or tweaks of any form and frankly to suggest they do is doing a massive disservice to them.

The fact that in the case of Bat over 36 years after its original release it still continues to sell is testament to the fact that Meat & Jim got it spot on

Bat 2 came on the scene and just blew even the most loyal Meat fans like myself who have followed since the beginning away, It was a real lightning strikes twice moment.

Maybe you should consider that in the LAB tour the entire 2nd half of the show was BOOH with a good chunk of the 1st half was from B2 and STILL raved about as evidence to support something I once saw reported as Meat saying when he was asked if they would consider remixing Bat 1 & 2 to give them a more modern feel.

"When you get something right the first time the smart move is not to change it"

And why is that a problem? The thread has bat in the title? And I have not written anything offensive have I? Just calm down nikox1!!! It's not worth it!!! Deep breaths!!! Focus!!!

Adje dressed up like a recycle bin .... :)

Because it is what you always do. Half your posts are concerned with stirring the Bat 3 pot of shit. Yes it is an interesting discussion, but it is one where there is nothing left to discuss. Yet here you are attempting to stir up the hornet's nest yet again. Next you'll don your martyr's hat and act the victim for a bit, then make a song and dance about leaving and flounce off into the ether for six months before returning to begin the cycle again. :nuts:

In all fairness, I think Nikox was just continuing the Bat 3 discussion we were having earlier in the thread....Why react so much to what he said? What you said, Evil One, could also be seen as stirring the pot after reacting to Nikox's post :roll:....I don't see why a friendly discussion about Bat 3 (continued from earlier in the thread) should be a problem, as long as it follows the forum rules..I mean, correct me if I'm wrong or missed something, but it seems like a non issue.

Where is your evidence of me stirring the pot? You have none, as usual it's just a personal attack from you. The usual cowardly attack from behind a computer screen. @ carylB you also had no reason to wade into the discussion either? ( except again only for personnel reasons ). There is nowhere in my above posts that I stirred any pot? Nor did I stirr any hornets nest? So I can only assume it's for personal reasons.

I was IN the discussion already. Nothing to do with personnel or personal reasons

I agree with this re Bat 3 and all the arguments over its title:
... it is one where there is nothing left to discuss.

U also liked a post by evil one when he accused me of shit stirring? That's normal from him etc etc,, but what he wrote about me was from the past ( something that I dealt with badly I agree ). But for you to like he's comments to me , is pointing out u agree with he's post? And just because you don't think there is anything left to discuss? Others were not agreeing with you, I was adding things in response to some other members posts.

Now there's (almost) an idea - how about a Last At Bat, Last At Bat Tour with a first act of Bat 2 sung in sequence, followed by a second act of Bat 1 sung in sequence followed by an encore of Dead Ringer For Love :cool:

You mean Meat just went ahead and produced the album without Jim ... really ... ? I never knew that ... I thought it was a true collaboration like all the other BOOH albums ... shocking ... :shock:

seriously can we stop picking on nikox please? I am happy to just see him posting again, nothing was said by him that should have upset anyone. BostonAngel, why did you even dislike his post? Seriously, this has gone far enough.

This thread was started to talk about, and I quote:
"The purpose of this thread was not to stir up... whatever this is but to have a discussion on what would Bat Out Of Hell be like if they made a continuation of it, kind of like in the James Bond universe how Quantum of Solace continued Casino Royals story."

I entered the discussion when the content of Bat 2 was dismissed as weak. I don't know why the title of Bat anything for Brave and Crazy had to be introduced, nor anything which resulted in more posts about Bat 3 not being a Bat album. Meat going ahead without Jim etc etc.

I thought that was a pity, and still do. I will agree or disagree with any post I choose Matt. And I think it is for the Mods to decide if anyone is being picked on or not, and for individual members to decide whether they like or dislike posts. I don't feel the need to explain why I have agreed or disagreed with any post twice.

It will be interesting to see if brave and crazy has a bat feel to it? Hoping its a big over the top record. Then again good old Meat may surprise us AGAIN:D

@ stretch, thanks for the support!! Haha, but don't worry it's nothing I'm getting upset over, I posted nothing wrong, nor did I try and fan any flames etc etc,, bat 1,2,3 are on topic on this thread as far as I can see? I even mentioned brave and crazy aswell ( since jim is involved ) its got a kind of bat link to it, haha!!

It's bound to have a Bat feel to it in parts I'd have thought with at least 3 Steinman songs, one of which Meat says will be over 14 minutes. On the other hand he has told us on the Brave & Crazy thread that it will have songs from James Michael and Rick Brantley, so as a whole I think it will be a Meat album, with welcomed and exciting contributions from Jim.

Don't forget that if I read it correctly on one of the other threads Meat has now said that Jim will be producing at least some tracks.

If Jim's health is good enough now to allow him to produce it does raise the prospects that we may see some brand new material from him and not as we were initially thinking existing tracks that were unreleased.

Producing no longer has to be weeks spent in a studio though, does it? I'd imagine that the 14+ minute one may well be something fresh, and never bought into the idea that all would be ones we'd seen demo'd. However, I think with other composers involved, which Meat has also confirmed, this isn't likely to be a Bat album as such .. given the controversy over the last one which included other writers .. but will have a Bat/Steinman feel in parts and a Meat feel throughout ;)

14 minute song sounds interesting indeed. It's great that jim of course will be writing songs for the album, but I'm Also really interested to hear the non steinman songs, some other great writers involved.

This is the "off topic" section. And while I find Bat 3 to be extremely relevant to the discussion just on the fact alone that Jim songs were used on Bat3 without his actual involvement and this time he is involved. Plus it was officially titled "Bat Out Of Hell III" and the thread is about "continuation" of Bat. So is "Bat 3" part of the progression of the series sadly??
Regardless this is in the "off topic" section so what the initial post said is irrelevant IMO.

Ok what I am saying is, I would like the next bat album not to be a sequel (if there is a new bat album) but something that is a continuation of BOOH. Like if you play BOOH and then play that one its like listening to the same album only on the b-side. And if that is the case I would like to hear what would happen if Bat Out Of Hell the song got a direct continuation.

:twisted: Am I the only one still pondering the question what's the difference between a sequal and a continuation? :bleh:

Star Wars was a film, then they made Empire Strikes Back, which was a sequel, right?
But it continues the story from where the first one left off.
So does that make it a sequal or a continuation?

And how can you do a musical continuation if there is no story arc to the album?
You can't continue a story if you haven't begun to start to tell it.

This thread puzzles me :wtf:

Eh?

I find your line of thought at best vague, at worst confusing. You seem to have decided that there is going to BE a next Bat album. Both Meat & Jim have said in interviews that Bat was always envisioned as a trilogy.

I think you are hearing the news that Meat & Jim are working together again and have convinced yourself that this means it will be another Bat. Why can you not just be happy that a partnership that has given us IMHO some of the best tracks ever recorded are working together again?

Ok, if you watch Star Wars the movies aren't really a sequel cause they continue the same narrative and saga. As in lets say Ghostbusters 1 and 2, both issues are resolved by the end of either films.

Another example which is used before is like James Bond films how they all continue and end in one film and may have some connections but its just a long line of sequels. Except for Casino Royale and Quantom of Solace cause the narrative continues on. So what I suggest instead of a sequel with a row of great songs, songs that follow the same themes and ideals of the first BOOH album as if to continue it.

So you want an old man singing about teenage love? :wtf:

:twisted: If Empire Strikes Back had never been made, Star Wars could have stood alone as it's own self enclosed film. In fact, it did for several years :lol:

Same with The Godfather.

On the other hand, there are plenty of films that don't end with a water tight ending with no story left to tell. The Talented Mr Ripley springs to mind. There could very well have been a sequel there to carry on the story.

Again, there is no story arc to the Bat Out Of Hell album, so how can the story be continued?

:twisted: How about a prequel? :lawl:

Think its time you stopped digging yourself further into your hole yet?

As Mouse has correctly pointed out now none of the Bat albums had any form of story arc or concept behind them so you can not make a sequel, prequel or continuation to them. Each album is a standalone collection of unconnected songs unlike WTTN or HCTB that did have some form of rudimentary concept behind them.

With this in mind I counteract your proposal of updating/revamping a timeless album that is BOOH with a suggestion that we re make the collected works of the Beatles in the style of a German oompah band complete with accordians

To support this proposal I submit Weird Al, Bohemian Polka
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RcEhSOLUPY

It is getting all confusing indeed, I can see it from all points of view, I get mister fives angle sort of?? Haha, but I can also see it from the other side I think?? I don't know!! Haha, but I would like to point out mister five came on here months ago and told us jim and meat would work together again, even before meat confirmed it. And there is no shit stirring in what I say next - I was told by a friend who works in a certain label that the record company asked it to be called something else....... Not brave and crazy. But since meat has told us it will be brave and crazy, so be it I guess. It would be interesting if jim did hand over more songs than 3, would that change the direction? Anyway exciting times ahead

BOOH was supposed to be an opera and Meat has noted to say that it had a narrative. What I am saying is BOOH instead of BOOH 2 which was about the past and memories, and BOOH 3 was supposed to be personal demons, BOOH like others stated here was about Teenage Love.

So what I want instead of BOOH 4 or whatever, to be a continuation of the first BOOH. Maybe the first song that happens after Bat Out Of Hell (the song) and everything falling into place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=far0a3d1fMA

At 7:50 Jim says what BOOH is in a nut shell.
Like Jim says Rock n Roll contains, fever, fantasies that go into Rock N Roll mythology, violent romance, violence that is heroic that becomes romantic.

That is what I want with BOOH album, a continuation of that power that teenage rebellion that fantasy.

I hate when people call BOOH a trilogy. Cause Bat 2 and 3 didn't have that same dark fantasy rock and roll mythology that began there and I find that to be a tad disturbing that none of you get that.

they did?

Mainly I think because someone is moving for a discussion on what he'd like to see as some potential Bat album in a sequence, and the new album, happening, is getting into the discussion. The latter is an album for which Meat has some songs already, will also have some songs from Steinman, about which we know little, and will have songs from at least two other writers .. so is unlikely to deliver this potential Bat in sequence misterfive wants to see.

Who knows? But if Meat already has two other writers involved, and said he hopes to prise one more than 3 out of Jim, I'd say, probably not .. certainly not in terms of it delivering an album everyone would consider a Bat album. As to your friend's information (passed on not in confidence which I'd have his garters for were I his manager) .. Meat was persuaded before over a title, but has said very clearly that he won't be again.

I'll give you a tendancy towards youthful angst in BOOH and more mature reflection in Bat 2 .. but Bat 2 wasn't to me exclusively memories .. AFL was set in the present, as was Frying Pan, Life is a Lemon and It Just Won't Quit .. and FCOL was a very mature love song, while Paradise was a reflection back, remembering youth and ending with today's disaster, just as examples

Less likely to happen in my view. You'd be talking something that wouldn't be released this side of 2016, even if Jim were to be able to come up with the number of songs required in the time (he is said to have several other projects in hand).

I understand what you want, I just don't agree with the basic premise you're hanging your hat on. To me there's nothing significantly dark fantasy rock and roll mythology about for eg Heaven Can Wait, You Took the Words, or FCOL on BOOH as examples .. nearly half the album. Bat 2 delivered some very powerful, Steinman penned, big rock and roll tracks, in the style of much of BOOH. Bat 3 had Land of the Pig (pretty dark to me)

Bat 3 WAS Bat 3 to me, so I consider them a trilogy, at risk of disturbing you further ;) That it wasn't exclusively Steinman songs didn't disturb me personally; I'm a Meat fan. And despite the fact that it was unfortunately not a happy experience for Meat, it delivered an album I loved and still do.

That's probably my fault... :)

It looks like we won't get a consensus in this discussion. So we also should accept the other opinions. Please, be nice to each other. ;)
"An act of kindness..." It starts at that point.

Bat3, Bat4, Bat5, Brave and Crazy... I mean, there are Bat1 and Bat2 and the other albums are great as well. We all like the albums if the songs are from Jim or not... I am excited for the new album however it is called. ;)

I'm sure that all misterfive was saying was 'what if' another BOOH album was to be like they'd just left the tape running after the original recordings and all those original songs continued (i.e. after the fade out/cut off/etc.)

What a way with words you have!!! That's exactly it