MMW Tour Board Tapes
 

I recall reading in a previous thread where Meat had said that he had given some board tapes of the current tour to Paul, and that these would eventually find their way here to the forum.

Any updates on that :??:

:twisted: Nothing as of yet.

I dare say we can put the thread as a sticky for a while once the tapes arrive.

I remember Meat posting in 2004 we would get board tapes, I remember Wario saying he would get board tapes from some 80s band member. I remember, I remember....

I think it's going to be one of those 'believe it when you see it' kind-of things.

:twisted: I remenber EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen: :lol:

Until it's your round ...

Thats still happening,. hes just on tour right now. once he's done ill get'em. thats a fact.

As long as he isn't now a member in Bob Dylan's band on his never-ending tour. :-P

I could claim to have a professional recording of the Elmira, New York 2002 concert. It doesn't necessarily make it so. :twisted:

Board Tape
 

When one of you can tell me what a board tape is we will put them up ,
Paul has 3 ready to put up .... Listen only .... no downloading.

Make them pay to download. Give the profit to the Turtle charity thing if you want. I have no issue with paying if they're good quality.

Well one strike , you don't know what a board tape is. !!!!!! Turtle Charity thing ? excuse me !!!

This is board tape:

http://www.asia.ru/images/target/pho...Board_Tape.jpg

My understanding is that a board tape is a recording of everything that went through the sound board t on a given night. Basically a professional recording of what the audience heard through the speakers. Each instrument and mic run through the board and mixed by the board tech

And would be more than happy to make a donation to Loafdom for the Turtle in order to obtain a download, but if not would be happy just to get a listen.

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Just because I chose to comment on a different part of your post, it does not mean that I do not know the answer.

One strike for making an incorrect assumption.

:twisted: I walked into the pub last night and a bloke said your round.
I looked down at my tummy and smacked him.
*drum florish*
Thank you, thank you, i'm here all week, try the veal :mrgreen:

A good idea.

OK, fair comment. Evil One could have refered to The Painted Turtle a little less dismissivly.

You gents need me to put on an umpire uniform? :bleh:

Can we please try and keep this topic to the subject of the board tapes rather than going off into the same old routine.

In other words.............

Evil One: STOP POKING THE MOTHERF@CKING BEAR WITH THE MOTHERF@CKING STICK! :bicker: :p :lol:

And Meat: get yourself some stick proof underwear :wink: and don't let the convo be taken into an off topic row by a poorly chosen choice of words.

Now, back to the board tapes...........

How about adding them to special "Tour edition" of Hell In A Handbasket on iTunes, kinda like the extra live tracks that were on the Hang Cool Teddy Bear CDs at the Uk concerts. I would imagine proceeds could go to Painted Turtle.

:twisted: Being the technophobe I am, i'd like to see a physical release available somewhere.
Doesn't have to be a major release with lots of advertising.
Perhaps The Turtle could produce a physical copy to sell?

Best of my knowledge, it is like what The Grateful Dead did...allow people to plug recording devices into the mixer board. The tapes that were recorded from The Dead are often referred to as "board tapes" - that's the best educated guess I can give.

Board Tape = The raw recording directly off the mixing console of a live performance.

Hasn't Meat often cited that the board tapes are just the raw vocals recorded on an isolated line through the desk at the respective gig?

I too thought they were a tape of everything that went through the sound board at a concert, how it sounded to the audience, and what you, Meat, listen to after the show?

I think if you were happy to allow a download with a charge which was passed to The Painted Turtle (and I cannot believe anyone on here does not know or cannot refer to it correctly) that would be great :-) To produce a physical copy to sell would be a much bigger issue, and TPT would not I think be in a position to manage all of that, but we have sold downloads from loafdomturtle.net, with all proceeds going to the charity.

Caryl

:twisted: Although I don't know anything about downloading myself, it seems that there wouldn't be much extra effort to put the music on a CD.
Someone at Painted Turtle burns a copy of the CD, I send them money, they send me the CD.

Seems easy enough to me :shrug:

But then you have to factor in the cost of the CDs and the cost and time of someone setting there an burning copies, not to mention the ever increasing cost of shipping these days

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All I was saying is that I don't think they are set up to do this, and their efforts are directed at the many other areas they have to manage across the board. They fund raise across a much wider cross section of people than Meat Loaf fans, and don't have a large army of people devoted to just fund raising. I'm always reluctant to suggest what other organisations can do unless I'm asked in to do that, and have a full picture ;)

Caryl

I think it would be a great idea to make them downloadable for a charge, and donate the funds to The Painted Turtle. It's a case of kill two birds with the one stone really. Allow Meat fans to buy and download the songs on the board tape (and put to rest the board tape issue lol) for a charge, and also help a great charity, The Painted Turtle, help ill children attend camps where the are able to have fun and forget about their illness, treatment and hospital ;) A win win situation I say :)

It's a tape you put up to this fan Board, hence the word board tape :D

a board tape is your raw performance in one huge file recorded via the soundboard through a pro tools system.

Meat im really excited to hear these. its just icing on the cake of the DVD release :)

really excited to hear these..... will these be on soundcloud or what?

OK I hope this isnt one of these things that are freaking left unfulfilled like bible and a beer on the live CD. Ive been excited to hear these.

A board tape is the raw unaltered performance as recorded through the soundboard. There its answered. Now please paul give us our shots

Wario, it might be an idea to temper your enthusiasm over these and be patient. If I were Meat and read that last post I'd be a bit pissed off as it reads quite cheeky (and not in a good way).

Let's remember that Meat is a very busy man and has an op on his knee coming up. He said he'd get them so can't we all just wait and see? Anything he is kind enough to ask Paul to let us hear is a bonus. Seems rather ungrateful to second guess him and suggest that he won't come through.

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I'm quite excited about the prospect of hearing these

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:twisted: Thank you :up:

Chris, it will happen.
The half on the admin staff that has been dealing with Paul about has been a bit preocupied of late by getting married and going to Rome on Honeymoon and stuff.

I can say, without question of a doubt, if I were in Rome with my newly wedded wife, the board tapes would NOT be priority one :wink:

Paul has been in touch with me in the meantime, but i'm no tech head and i've had to put him back over to Andy and R.
But I know things are moving in the right direction.

I do know that Meat is very specific that he wants these tapes put online in a way that they can be listened to, but not downloaded (or, I assume, in any other way recorded, which I think is pretty much impossible).
Perhaps that condition is proving to cause a few delays itself.


I admire and respect your passion and dedication for Meat's work, but these tantrums and outbursts every time you don't get something you want, or if you don't get it quick enough, are getting to be a little grating :?

Thanks for the update Mouse.

Thank you very much for the update Mouse :-)

:twisted: You're both very welcome :up:

I'm sorry there isn't more to tell right now, but at least we know things will get done.

And when you consider the speed at which anything which can be downloaded is plastered over YT, or shoved on Torrent networks, and the alacrity with which people pillory Meat over anything with the slightest imperfections, I can fully understand his wishes on the matter.

And should it prove to be impossible to put them on line in the way he wants, any blame can be laid at the door of those who do that, and not Meat in my view.

Cool. I'm just concerned it was gonna be something else were I'd get my hopes up.

LOL
I am not surprised there aren't any boardtapes. I never expected Meat to come trough on this.

First we had to play "Say what they are if you want 'm' immediately followed with the 'no downloading' excuse. I don't think 'they' ever intended to release them. To be honest it's not the first time we heard this and it's not the first time it didn't happen.

How about we all excercise a little patience, mmh?

:twisted: As I said..................


I still believe there's a way to get the tapes up without people being able to download.
Perhaps my lack of understanding in techie matters is behind that though :bleh:


All I can tell you is that Paul contacted me on Facebook and seemed genuinly enthusiastic about getting the tapes up for us all to hear. He was basically saying to me "OK, here they are, how do you want to put them up?".
Fact!
Unfortunatly I Couldn't help him (see above) and had to refere him to Andy and R. I was hoping a way around the dowload issue would have been found by now, but it looks like it's even trickier than I first thought :shrug:

There is genuine intent from Meat to let us hear these tapes, but the downloading issue is proving to be a bigger pain than I first thought.
Hopefully someone will know a way around it.

I can understand why Meat doesn't want the board tapes available for download.

For one, a "bootleg" of this quality could be sold for money.

Meat has recently brought out a live DVD, so why release this for free when it is bound to effect sales.

Meat (if I remember correctly) said a while ago that he was taking all the live stuff off youtube because something big was happening, but he couldn't talk about it until/if it was ready to go.
If he went to the trouble of taking down even the crappiest mobile phone footage, why would he want the board tapes up there?

I like Jonty's suggestion, but I don't think it would work somehow :?

It still could. It's not difficult to record something 'undownloadable' and save it as an audio file.

:twisted: True.
But as it's not online only a limited few have access to it, so it has a far less chance of seeing the black market than if it were online and available to many.

People can say what they want, but it is hard to argue with this. Everyone knows if it can be heard it can be recorded. I say this with all due respect, but logically I can not not disagree.

This would not be a competitor to the DVD and if people knew it was a free gift most who wanted a Meat Loaf tape would get it free. Meat from what I can tell had no interest in making money off these tapes. If you want to purchase bootlegs of full concerts I can already tell you where they are for sale right now. I supposed releasing them as edited versions as opposed to full length would not make anyone happy. I'm surprised to learn that Paul was not aware they could be recorded and thought there was a way to stop them from being downloaded. I do not mean to sound disrespectful to anyone and I appreciate their efforts, I assumed (my fault) that they were not concerned with copying. The live tracks sold on itunes are available anywhere you want to look, only 1 person has to buy a copy for it to be out.

That we already did, me thinks. Several times I might add :roll:

Yes, and perhaps some courtesy and respect for the man who owns them, who has plenty on his plate at the moment, and simply wanted to please some people but without having to do something he doesn't want to do.

Facts are facts. We've been down this road more than once and it always ends the same. Lucy always offered Charlie Brown the football but she always pulled it away. Yes she owned the football, but she offered Charlie a chance to kick it. Charlie Brown refused to accept reality too and kept falling on his ass. I ain't kicking at the ball any more.

Lucy was taunting him with no intention at all of letting him kick the ball and then laughing at his expense.

I do not believe for one moment Meat is doing this. It is your interpretation of what you call "the facts", and personally I find it a rather offensive one. Meat has hoped to do things which ultimately he has not been able to do at times, eg set lists. He knows there are those who really want to hear board tapes, and he said yes but just to listen .. probably hoping some way could be found to do this.

If it was implied that I was taunting people I valued for some kind of perverse sport I know I'd not bother to even try and please them any more.

Then just put them up for sale and I will purchase them. If bootlegging has become such a worry that you can not give away something you keep offering then sell it, problem solved. When I said facts are facts I meant this has happened before, how many times now? Look back at my posts I was steadfast that Meat would deliver on this... this time for sure. Now I am wrong and that is fine. I can live just fine without board tapes but maybe wait until you have something ready then drop us a surprise, don't make me answer what is a board tape & string me along. Offended or not, the bottom line is if bootlegging is such a concern then sell it, and even then it will be bootlegged anyway. Ever since tape recorders were invented if you can hear it you can copy it. This is not a new concept. If necessary I will go back and pull the posts where I expressed full confidence that these would be delivered - I believed- so nobody can play the I didn't respect anyone card.

meat wont find a way to make it undownloadable. Losing faith in all these promises sometimes. bible and a beer, all of me soundcheck in sydney, the soundboards...... :(

I say make it a profit for painted turtle. nobody looses :shrug:

:twisted: This!

I know it's been a long wait so far folks, but what have we got if not time? :shrug:

I hope it's possible to find a way around the download problem, or even if he puts them up for sale somewhere.


It's been said that Meat shouldn't say things until he knows he can deliver, but he's obviously enthusiastic to let us hear these tapes (as long as they can't be downloaded) and maybe he got a little carried away in the excitement of the moment and offered something that was harder to deliver than he thought.
I don't know what Meat's IT skills are like and how much he knows personally about the problems involved in putting something online that can't be downloaded.

Disappointing, sure, but i'll not hold his enthusiasm against him. I believe he was very sincere in his wish to let us hear these tapes.
It's the thought that counts as far as i'm concerned :shrug:


Would be nice to hear them though :cool:

I too believe he was and is sincere. His world is a little bit bigger than this one issue. He's preparing for a very special benefit concert, has the rest of this tour to complete, plan for the next one, record, manage a zillion things we don't know about and fit in knee surgery. If he eventually finds a way he's happy with to share board tapes that will be great. If he doesn't, like you, I think that he wanted to is what counts.

The only way to make sure that something on the internet isn't being copied around is not putting it on the internet in the first place.

The internet is nothing but a giant copy machine. For something to be played on your computer, the data has to be downloaded first. (Yes, even when streaming something.) If this wasn't the case, why does bandwidth cost money?

Even if you put it up for sale, as said before, it only takes one person to share it, and it's out there.

I agree. Same old story here isn't it Caryl. People attacking Meat for not being genuine and true to his word, when he has always tried to be. Do people not realise he's just one man? And he has a million other things going on the whole time? And also that sometimes things he wants to do for us don't quite work out because of factors that are out of his hands or beyond his powers? I just don't get the selfishness of people and why they don't understand this. If I was Meat reading these posts I would have NO incentive to sort out these tapes, some people don't deserve them.

Sorry for the rage mods, please can you edit this if needed, thanks.

Here comes the we should feel sorry for Meat Loaf brigade. Give me a break. If he doesn't want to share those tapes fine. I'm still waiting for the 2004 board tapes. Will those ever materialise? No. Does it matter? No. But yeah if you post that it's going to be released some people will indeed keep wondering. Inevitable. Not everyone just sits back and thinks everything Meat does and how he does it is great. If that makes people selfish and moany that's fine I think. Ultimately many here have paid a lot for tickets, CDs and downloads etc. In a lot of cases people can be critical on the web without even having had to engage with anything before. Here, most have in my opinion already earned the respect to have pretty much any view they want.

I think attack is a rather emotive word to use Rob. I'd simply call it rude.

Nor would I.

I have not asked for anyone to feel sorry for Meat .. just some patience and respect, rather than suggesting he's taunting fans. I don't really expect people not to be selfish, or "moany" .. but courtesy would be reasonable.

No-one needs to earn the right to have any view they choose. The law puts limits on how entitled they are to express it; so does common civility. I would argue that Meat has earned the right to have some understanding afforded him, and that views/comments be expressed in the respectful manner Rainer asks.

You obviously hasn't read the posts by both Meat and Mouse that state they absolutely DO want to share these 100%.

I have never sat back and thought everything Meat does and how he does it is great, and i've expressed that at times in the past. But neither am I selfish or moany enough to demand something from him now that may not be technically possible for him to do. So i'm neither one or the other which kind of screws up your point trying to put people in one catergory or other.

So you think because people have spent so much money on Meat in the past, it gives them a right to be selfish and moany and demanding of him? They have earnt that? That was their choice, and whatever they chose to spend that money on Meat did his damndest to give them value for money. They got their moneys worth. They deserve nothing extra. Meat is trying to do this out of the goodness of his heart, perhaps he shouldn't have mentioned it until he knew whether it was possible or not, but he was excited and he values us that much that he wanted to give us a sneaky heads up. If it doesn't work out it will be a shame for sure, but don't ever tell me Meat hasn't tried to do this.

it would be good if meat does do it but if he doesn't i wouldn't hold it against meat i mean if i was in his shoes i wouldn't want anyone bootlegging my work, I mean meat has worked his arse off for the last 35 years i'm just greatful that he is still going if it was anyone else they would have retired by now.

:twisted: Are you forgetting that Meat isn't 100% in the right about this? :?
I don't personally hold it against him, but I know a lot of folks are dissapointed here.
Meat may have been caught up in the moment a little, but he really should have checked out the possibilities of posting the board tapes online if he wanted to put conditions in how they were listen too.
Hey, perhaps he thought it wouldn't be a problem (I never knew it could prove to be such a pain in the ass), he's human :shrug:.
Again, I don't hold it against him because I believe I know his motives to be true (and I have reason for that) but I can understand why some folks think they are having something dangled before them and then snatched away.
Especially (in all fairness) when he has promised board tapes before and not delivered.

Understand that dissapointment does not make for happy fans.



All I can do is tell you what i've said before.
Paul personally contacted me asking me to help him share the tapes. If I was more of a tech wizard you might well be enjoying them right now.
This was a genuine offer.
Meat might not have delivered in 2004, but this was on the level.

The only thing that was stopped this happening so far is the condition (that I respect and understand completely) that the board tapes be hosted in such a way where they can't be downloaded.

Meat has not said the tapes will never be posted, quite the opposite. He's said that they will be up for us to hear at some future time.
Weather they go up because a workable solution is found to the download problem, or weather Meat takes enough time to talk himself into thinking "oh f*ck it, there's no way around it, i'll give them something, even a medley" I don't know.
But I believe Meat is genuine about letting us hear these tapes, and I believe a way/compromise will be found.

Your opening sentence isn't going to sit well with some, though they will claim objectivity. I don't hold it personally against Meat either. The part that confuses me is that it is pretty widely known that if you can hear it you can record it. Obviously the same day Meat releases a new project copies are already available online - and these are the one's he sells to make a living. If he does not want these copied it can not be done, but the same was true of HIAH. In my case I just vented a bit because this makes twice I have said that if Meat promised tapes he would come through. I said it about the Aussie tapes that were going to disprove the critics and again I believed about these. Yet I somehow get criticized and "offend" people (refer back to your opening sentence) because I believed that Meat would deliver and have the posts to prove it.

There is no way around it, unfortunately. As has been said, anything that you can listen to can be recorded in some fashion, converted to a digital file, and uploaded somewhere where it can be shared. So, Meat either has to accept the possibility of that happening, or not release the tapes.

:twisted: I don't know why. :shrug:
Meat should have looked into this further before making the promise.
But he was excited and said it in the heat of the moment. I can understand that, and i'm not going to hold that error against him.

I don't see how anybody reasonable can have a problem with that.


But it's also down to the quality of the recording.
There's a difference between someone holding a mic to a speaker and getting a sub standard version, and getting a perfect copy of the original.
As I said, I didn't know just how difficult how it would prove to be, and as I don't know Meat's level of IT knoledge, I can't say that he knew that either.


Because they are properly uploaded to a computer (no loss of quality), and then put online, right?


I can understand people venting. It's disappointing that these tapes are not going to be posted as soon as we'd hoped.
I don't see anyone offended by your belief in Meat, and I think that belief is well founded because I know myself that these tapes were to be posted.

My opening sentence was addressed to Rob because I felt his own opening tone showed a lack of empathy and understanding towards those who are not as "forgiving" (for the lack of a better word now) as others on the forum.
I understand their frustration (even though I don't share a lot of the anger) and I think they are entitled to feel a little that way.

Personally I still think it's the thought and the gesture that counts.

I can record anything played on my computer- no microphone needed.

:twisted: Thank you :mrgreen:
That's EXACTLY my point.
I never knew that. Perhaps Meat didn't know that either ;)

If you needed mics and speakers and whatnot you wouldn't get such a good sounding end product, which is why Meat wouldn't mind the risk of putting the board tapes up, and why he made the offer.

everyone should just shut up, the less meat knows what recording software is out there we couldve had these up by now!

:kickass:

:twisted: Let me put it this way, i'm not the smartest person in the world (don't tell anyone :bleh: ), but i've got quite an interest in military history.
I reckon I know more about the Eagle Order than anyone on this forum.

In fact, i'll take on Stephen Hawking in a quiz night down the local on the subject of the Eagle Order because I think I know more about the Eagle Order than him.

Stephen Hawking might be one clever dude, but i'd kick his ass in a quiz about the Eagle Order :kickass:
I'd fecking murder him :mrgreen:

"WTF are you talking about" :wtf: I hear.

Stephen Hawking is brilliant, but he doesn't know everything.

I know Paul knows a lot about music, but I don't know a thing about his, or Meat's, IT skills.
I don't think anyone on the forum is in a position to judge their IT skills, let alone find them surprising.

Tell me Paul had a problem reading a sheet of music, and I might show some surprise, but tell me what he is and is not capable on a couputer and I doubt i'll be amazed because I have no pre expectations.

IT (for me) is a long and complicated subject, and until someone who really knows their stuff tells me "you can't do that" I pretty much tend to think that anything is possible.

Yeah, Paul doesn't know anything about that...:D

Nor do I

Oh .. sucker punch him into it? Remember these were offered to the MLUKFC and Rainer, and Meat clearly said .. to listen, not download. Rainer has integrity, which is why Meat likes, respects and trusts him.

Lol of course. Was just messing lol

Easy to say after the fact Wario ;)

Personally, I never took Meat's word as a 100% promise that he would definately put the sound boards up, just that he would if he could.

I think a lot of people here have the "me me me" complex, how many of you are an only child? Classic signs of being an only child ;) Anyway, I digress.

He wants to do it, maybe in some people's views he shouldn't have said so before he knew. I'm not bothered by it myself, I've learnt to deal with things not going the way I'd like ;) I also understand that these things happen. How often have any of you wanted to do something and been excited about it so you've shared it, and its just not panned out like you wanted?

Maybe Meat genuinely thought there would be a way to do this, but there just isn't. At the end of the day, that is his property and he can choose what he wants to do with it. Not any of us, no matter how much we stamp our feet and cross our arms.

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Meat might have remembered when M. Brevard had some audio/video that she put up for listening/watching only (no download) on this very board; when was that, 2003 or 04? At the time I knew of no way to save them. So he may have thought the same thing could be done with these board tapes.

To me the only important thing is that he wanted to share them with us. If it turns out he can't, for WHATEVER reason, I'm still glad he wanted to. And for heaven's sake I don't feel entitled to them just because he hoped to share them.

If a friend of mine wanted to give me something, but in the end couldn't, would I be angry and feel wronged? No; would you???

-Kathy

CHSIB Kathy. No I certainly wouldn't !

No, because I wouldn't BE wronged. Like you, I feel no sense of entitlement because I have none in this case.

Whether or not this or that artist sells their board tapes is irrelevant. Meat has never done this, nor is there any reason why he should; it's absolutely his choice, and like you, I respect that. That he wanted to is enough. If he can't then I'll be perfectly happy with all he HAS given us over the years, and continues to give us. We had a stunning new album last year, have just had a DVD, he's touring and is coming to the UK to tour next year. Works for me :-)

Caryl

Did these ever actually make it as far as MLUKFC HQ? Did anyone actually get to listen to them?

It is all pie in the sky from what I gather. Try asking Santa but he probably won't come through either.

I'm still waiting for Santa to deliver The Christmas Album!:!:

Meat has said that will be his last album .. so I'm in no hurry for it ;)

When did he say that ?

Some time ago on his Facebook page when asked about new albums. He said he was working on Brave & Crazy for release next year, and had a Christmas album lined up for the future, which would be his final album.

My understanding of a board tape is an audio recording of the show which has been recorded through the sound boards which obviously have to be present during each show. It is either recorded in an audio file or later transferred into an audio file.

That's my understanding. If I'm wrong, I truly apologise but I'm learning alot about levels and live recordings at the moment. I like learning!

If I recall correctly, Meat himself at one point had stated that reviews saying he was not singing well were not correct and that he listened to almost every show on board tapes which would be the best source and that he would release some songs proving that he was indeed singing well. I am pretty sure that the people who record such things and people like Paul who actually produce professionally know that a board tape can not be released in such a way that it can not be copied as far as I know. Anything released can be copied, even if it says "copy protected".
My thought was that the songs could have been just selected ones or edited in some way to prevent any misuse, maybe left incomplete for example. I have heard stuff broadcast before where an announcer says the radio station name or website name or whatever at some point during the song which prevents it from having any real value to anyone except those of us who would love to hear them even with the voiceover. If Meat followed through on this and had someone say "meatloaf.net" at a noticeable part of the song who besides us diehards would want that? Plus we could make them available to anyone who wanted them for free so nobody would have much of a market to sell them.
It is just my opinion, but this was completely possible to have been done IMO.

Not a bad idea there bud!