Dead Ringer
 

Hoping that the Meat Loaf community might find a discussion of his 1981 film Dead Ringer of interest.

On the new episode of The Projection Booth podcast we discuss Dead Ringer and interview director Allan Nicholls. We also have some clips from the film.

http://www.projection-booth.com/

Enjoy!

Find a showing of it better lol

We can hope!

Thanx for opening permissions on Clip 1.... they're all PRICELESS!

:twisted: Hi there, and welcome to the forum :D
I've moved the thread to Loaf Camera Action (the forum for discussing Meat's big and small screen work).

Thanks for the link 8)
I'm just taking a look at the Peel Out footage, it's very interesting stuff.

Who knows, one day the whole movie might come to light :pray:

Thank you so much for the video, it's such a pleasure to discover these images.

Florence

Wow, those are GREAT!

PEEL OUT MUSIC VIDEO RELEASED TO PUBLIC!!!
 

OMGOMGOMG!!!

YouTube Video

check out the dead ringer thread in lca, and you'll see its significance is rather more important

I think I have watched it about 10 times already today. It is so awesome to see!

That a real road eh?

Great stuff. Found it interesting watching "More than you deserve" in its "proper" context with a nice extra musical outtro.

My guess is that most around here will still prefer talking about the celebrity stuff. Personally I don't like the latter as I think it has very little to do with Meat Loaf as an artist and puts him in a collection of idiots. Shame really.

It is interesting stuff, but I suspect the real reason this film has never seen the light of day is because it's shit. :shrug:

only video missing now is everything is permitted

Thanks for posting this.

didn't realise that the Dead Ringer For Love vid wasn't in the movie though. According to the interview with Allan Nichols Cher isn't in the movie, and the interviewer goes on to say that it's Meat singing the song with himself at the end of the movie. Interested to see how that works!

I don't think Meat has the legs to copy Cher's part in the official vid!

Think Sean was just worried he'd have to incorporate it into his act lol

Nice!

this is probably where we discovered his secret he's been trying to hide for years...trainee ballet dancer or something like that:lol:

Or legs like Cher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd like to see Meat Loaf straddle a giant cannon just like Cher did!
If I could turn back time.:lol:
Maybe in his next video for HIAH.:D

If anyone wants me I'll be in the back, sawing my own face off.

Very cool! Thanks!

I watched a couple of clips from this film this morning, will watch the rest later. Where has this film come from? who "leaked" it? It looks a dreadful film but I love the footage. I think Deadringer is a great album, Meat should be more proud of it than he is.

Youtube has your answer

It's utter shit. :roll:

The film is but the album is good.

And the Oscar goes to????????????????????:roll:

Yes, maybe I should clarify: The album is excellent, but the film is utter shit. I can fully understand why it never saw an official release. :shit:

Evil One!:lol:

Now how did Gary B. get hold of this?:shock:

I've no idea, but I'm glad he did. Sony seem to have attacked the Youtube uploads now. :roll:

I only got to watch up to part 4 of 9. Does it get any better after this?:-):??:

yeah, typical. Whatever. Good thing I used an alternate account.

I would say about the same, but I find anything Meat-related interesting to watch, atleast once.;)

I still have them if anyone wants them pm me.

Did he leak it?

yah you should do that from now on with anything sensitive like that man, i would hate to see u lose everything again

It's fun to see this movie: 30 years have gone, the story seems confused ( or: is there a story ?! ). But we have the chance to look rare performances from 1981. Dead Ringer was one of my favorite albums, IMO it's unterrated so much. It's only a joke-movie, not less and not more.

Only thing that sucks is the live footage that the movie contained was great.

Meat looked and sounded healthier in that footage then he does on the Wembley '82 VHS. Promised Land Especially.

If it took 30 years for this movie to show its face, it'll be 130 years till the live footage will be found.

:twisted: Who? Meat?

I doubt it.
For one, I don't think Meat a copy too leak, and secondly it's been taken down, and I think if it were there by Meat's say so it would have still been up there (he would have sorted this with the copyright holder before leaking it).
I don't he has anything to do with this.

What is such a f*cking pisser is that this film has been lost all this time, the fans have been dying to see it, a copy finally comes to light, and the assholes who own the copyright take it down.

They've had 30 years to do something with that footage, 30 years to give the fans what they want, and they've sat on it.

God forbid that something like this should ever be seen by someone who really wants to see it without those assholes getting a sackload of cash.

They are never going to release it, so they are never going to make money from it, so why deny the fans the pleasure of seeing it?

Well screw them, this is one bootleg i'm more than happy to watch :mrgreen:



However, for the conspiracy theorists amongs us (and I know you're there :bleh: ) perhaps this has been a plan to get people interested and talking about the movie before it's long overdue commercial release.

Once! :lol:

:nuts:

:twisted: Maybe, but Bat III was played on radio, start to finish, with commentary by Meat, before it had even been released.

Meat gave his album away to every concert ticket holder on his tour.

Releaseing the movie like this and then taking it down is something that will get people talking.
I've told quite a few people about the movie, and perhaps that interest could be turned into sales if it were released.

It may be :nuts: , but it's a :nuts: world.

I thought this was a bad idea at the time.

And this

And this is too! :shrug:

:twisted: I'm not saying it's a good idea, just that it might be what they're doing.

I just find it weird that after all these years it gets reviewed on a film site, and then all of a sudden it turns up in it's entirety.

It is weird. It makes no sense.

You can't put something on the internet for 10 hours and expect it's gone when you pull it back. Eventhough it's taken down it already is all over the internet now. And I can guarantee you that it's gonna be alive on the internet for a long time to come.

If 'they' going to release this nobody but some die hard fans will buy it. If 'they' are behind the 'leak' then it would be a stupid move as this movie is so terribly bad.

It really is! I'd like to see all the 'live' footage used in the making of it at some point though. :shrug:

It sucks that i only asked Meat about the song Masculine at my M&G. I was going to ask him about the dead ringer movie but I got star struck.

PMed him about that and what the other songs were that never made the set. he answered the songs question but not the dead ringer one.

I think its something he loathes. no doubt he has a copy.

Ironically enough though the video for More Than You Deserve is actually pretty great. At least something cool came out of that film! Oh yeah, minus the random pie rampage ...

The movie seems to omit the dead ringer video. just noticed that.

and the ballad finale always gets left behind. no sign of Everything is Permitted

I can see why he'd loathe this movie. I can also see why he'd loathe the Wembley '82 show. However with the live footage in this film (from what is there) Meat seems on good form. The only reason I can think of that Meat may not like it is that he is at his fattest. :shrug:

I woudln't say good form, hes in better form then the wembley '82 VHS.

its also funny that the quiet marvin character who never speaks a word has the singing voice of a toured out rocker at the end of the film. makes no sense, but at least it wasnt a mime to the studio track

As I understand it this followed the podcast on The Projection Booth which was posted to start this thread by one of the site owners. They had approached Alan NIcholls as director of the movie, and asked for the interview with him with particular reference to this film that never got distribution. He sent them a copy of the film. Whether this was a copy of the original version which was shown at two Canadian film festivals, or a copy of the version Sonnenberg and Dellentash re-edited I have no idea.

CBS (now Sony/BMG) own the movie, and one assumes the world wide distribution rights in any media. Whether or not one likes their motives for not releasing it, it is their property and their right to not release it. Nicholls said in the interview that he had engaged in many legal attempts to secure its release, all of which had failed. I doubt Sony would see much revenue to be gained for its release now. It's a movie on the back of a runaway album success not untypical of its time, but wouldn't stand up well for release in 2011 imo, and selectively releasing it for the benefit of Meat's fans wouldn't generate the revenue which would interest them. So I dismiss any notion that Sony would have engineered this leak. I don't know whether Nicholls either engineered or approved the leak. It would seem to me a rather foolhardy strategy given his personal knowledge/experience of Sony's position, and the fallout which could ensue. I imagine their lawyers are reasonably exercised with that currently.

One thing I'm sure of is that Meat is far too astute to be involved in such a leak, particularly as the version Sony own is one he hated so much. As to suggestions as to why he hated this version, he made it clear that it was due to the re-editing which was done .. "widly disjointed and jumpy" were his words I think, had scenes inserted which made no sense, and that it was a huge exercise in self-indulgence by Sonnenberg and Dellentash. The original version got good reviews at the Toronto Film Festival, and despite Meat's concerns for the way the pair spent to excess and tried to manipulate him and Leslie, he thought some good videos came from it.

Caryl

I think it's simpler than that. Meat wouldn't be involved in leaking this because it's utter crap.

Yet the Dead Ringer video didn't feature in the film, and the Peel Out video was never released. :shrug:

nore was IKYIYDCB :(

I meant from the making of the film. Meat says quite clearly he made the Dead Ringer video with Cher as part of the film, and that video was released. As was More Than You Deserve. Why and at what stage Dead Ringer was dropped from the film we don't know.

I think you've made it clear what you think of the film. However, as you seem to keep finding ways to repeat it, I'll take the liberty of repeating that I think Meat is far too astute to have any involvement in a leak to force the release of a film he said was in bad shape after the additional editing and which could bring Sony's lawyers down on him in a case that could not be defended.

Caryl

Have you seen it?

How many times do I have to tell you all? Gary B. released it!:!::shock::(:-):roll::?:D

We really, REALLY, need to get that "like" button installed.

No; have you seen it in its entirety? Based on a clip which was put on line and on how Meat described the film I described it as a one made on the back of a runaway album success which I think is not untypical of its time. I've seen a few of those which I thought were pretty indifferent, but doubtless provided some innocent enjoyment for the fans of the performer. I have never suggested it's a good movie; hence my saying I doubted Sony would have seen any business reason for releasing it, and certainly not by the time that would have been possible. So no, I've not seen it it, but I think that's a reasoned view.

I've seen Spice World and Extreme Dating, both of which to me were pretty poor films, but I could enjoy watching Meat's role in them. If I watched Dead Ringer and thought it that it was bad, I'd probably say that without needing to use and repeat the word "shit" so frequently. I've seen Peel Out, and that alone would povide something positive to enjoy, as would all the songs.

Caryl

Yes. I actually think it makes Spice World look good. :yikes:

As a Meat fan the music videos and live footage are interesting, but the actual film that is woven around it is definitely not. While I'm glad that I've seen it I feel the myth surrounding it was actually more interesting than the film itself, if that makes sense? :shrug:

There you go, not a shit in sight! :lol:

Yeah , we definitely need a "LIKE" button...

Anyway.. yes, I've seen the removed YouTube version (which I believe was the one that Meat Loaf disliked and the CBS re-release. ) For the time period, it rated right up there with the Dukes of Hazzard tv series ( ie; not GREAT ) but - it WAS a comedic, satirical interpretation, not a documentary. It did give us some nice footage for music videos that SHOULD be appreciated for individual content.

Even tho I did not care for the cinematic execution or the "artisitic liberty" that was taken with the material resulting in litigation, I am NOT going to sit here and compare MEAT LOAF or his efforts to ANY FORM of excrement...

Take it for the moments that you can enjoy... its worth sitting thru the moments that you can't !

i thought that it was actually pretty cool. not great by any stretch but still fun to watch

I suspect (not having watched it as yet) that the hype surrounding the "holy grail" status that the film has had will outweigh the reality. I'd imagine that that would hold true regardless of it being the original edit or the recut.

Of course it'll be interesting to watch, but Id imagine it'll not be something that is rewatched that often in reality once the first viewing is done.

i missed it, apart from the 2 clips... ahwell

Yes that not only makes sense; in expressing your opinion it's reasonable, reasoned and fair comment :-)

Meat's never suggested this was a great film, really deplored the second editing, and like Andy, I suspect its being locked away and not released has caused a level of curiosiy, even "need" to see it/own it that is almost bound to result in disappontment in some .. and I guess give those who like to find flaws and failings a golden opportunity to deplore it ..

Had it been released at the time I suspect it would have been enjoyed by a lot of people because it would have met expectations then of it's genre; Explicit Sinz says much of it rates well against Dukes of Hazzard. Not a show I enjoyed, but many, many did. Perhaps watching it not with the eyes of our level of expectations in 2011, but with the arguably less demanding ones that were used in the 80s, one would see the satirical take she refers to. As it is the musical footage should surely be something to enjoy, and any for whom it did become a kind of holy grail .. they've had their objective met. If it's good thought-provoking writing, excellent performance, skilled filming they're after, I recommend Focus ;)

Caryl

Imagine the first Muppet Movie ... without any of the good bits :lol: Well, apart from the music videos and music. So, yeah, pretty much like the first Muppet Movie. :-P

:twisted: I agree.
The film has been lost for 30 years, and I don't see how anything could live up to the anticipation that has had to build up, but what the hell, i'm personally going to enjoy the excitment for as long as I can before the inevitable dissapointment :mrgreen:

I loved the bootleg release of the Peel Out vid, and I hope that there will be other such enjoyable moments in the rest of the film 8)

there are plenty enjoyable moments. notice I say enjoyable, not oscar worthy lol.

One character, the news guy, is oh so annoying.

:twisted: Again, that's the rub.
If Sony do not believe the film will create enough revenue to be of interest (and I suspect they are right), and have no plans to ever release the film commercially, who the hell does it hurt to let the fans share and experience this film?

They will never gain anything leaving the film in a can.
They will never gain anything by letting the fans see the movie by sharing it online.

What in gods name can they lose?

How many people here have now illegally watched the Peel Out video?
Did Sony's share prices take a dive because we saw it?

Just goes to show that there is a big difference between legality and common sense.

The problem is one of simple mathematics though... releasing the film, even to DVD, has an overhead cost and if the sales don't cover the overheads then its not a viable move to make as a business. End of story.

I saw the first part on last Friday morning, but had to go to work. I'd anticipated seeing the rest on Friday evening before going out, but it had been taken down by then - bollocks - a thirty year wait spoiled by having to work for a living !

What I saw was, dare I say it, fairly shit, but it has a novelty factor as this is the film / album which was to confirm Meat's superstar status, just it never quite worked out that way...

...but if Dead Ringer was a success like BOOH then there would be no need for BOOH2 so its not all bad...:roll:

Sometimes google can be your best friend.

Anyway despite the fact that it's not that good I'm happy being able to see it. I disagree with Wario that it's the kind of bad that makes it funny. But it's interesting stuff though :)

:twisted: I agree.
It's not going to make money.
So why not let the fans have it to share online?
They have quite literaly absoloutley nothing to lose.

Indeed it is. :cool:

Exactly. And whether one approves of Sony's stance, as owners they have a right to take whatever stance the choose .. and to take legal action if their copyright is breached by a leak. I suspect this is not a sufficiently big or newsworthy case to exercise them hugely, but should they choose to do so, that again is their right.

Caryl

Woop! Cool vid

couldn't they release it on itunes? importantly, if Meat permits it. Meat would have some sorta say I would like to think.