McDonalds Vs fat gits with no willpower
 

So I could be eating anything then? A bit like McDonalds. Yuk!!!!!!!

Ronald is not happy.:(

He shouldn't be happy. He makes people fat and his food is junk.

People make themselves fat by eating too much.

When you add stuff to food to make them addictive, that's not the persons fault it's the manufacturers. I agree it's a persons fault for eating to much, but how can you stop if you're addicted?

discipline?

For some people it's impossible. I tried myself for years, and I wasn't able to. It took me 3 months to become disciplined. But still people shouldn't have to be so cautious if they didn't riddle the food with filth.

If it only took three months then it wasn't impossible. You chose to eat food riddled with filth, there are plenty of non-filth riddled alternatives.

:twisted: Split from post your thoughts.

I personally despair when McDonalds can be taken to court for "making someone fat" :facepalm:
It's just another way that people refuse to take responsibility for themselves.
Yes, i'm a fat git, yes it's fault.
I won't be taking Col. Sanders to court any time soon, even though his chicken is very nice :nuts:

I agree people do have to take responsibility, but if this addictive junk food wasn't available in the first place then there would be no problems. The Coca Cola company gets away with drugging people every single year, and nothing happens to them. Caffeine should be banned forever and so should nicotine. I have no problems with food, I have an issue with some of the stuff that goes into it.

If you got your way fat people would be overdosing on carrots and demanding they be banned. It is far easier to pass the buck than take personal responsibility. I enjoy the odd KFC and McDonald's and a daily glass of coke. Why should I have this taken away from me because some fat people have no self control?

Evil One there is nothing wrong with a burger, chips, provided they aren't full of additives and chemicals. But I'll tell you from my own experience, Coca-Cola, Tea, Coffee, Alcohol is toxic stuff man even in small amounts. I wouldn't touch a can of coke if I was paid €100, no chance whatsoever. Caffeine caused me more problems in my life, that I won't even bother getting into it. You may enjoy the odd glass of coke, but for some people like myself it's the match that ignites the bomb. You probaly have no idea what it's like to be addicted to stuff, and how impossible it is to control. I was making myself mentally and physically sick and their was nothing I could do to control it. I made an effort to stop in April because I had to, either that or I was going to die!!! and I was going to die with the way I was going. I suffered right through the whole summer. I got four flu's in the space of 3 months, I was always shattered tired, always felt sick....I was off my head, I was crazy, and no one could deal with me. Withdrawal is the hardest challenge you'll ever encounter. I couldn't do one task in the whole day, I couldn't focus. I'm five months on a clean diet, I'm no long addicted to anything, and my whole personality is changing, my whole way of thinking is changing. I'm sleeping better than I have ever been. I'm not fully right though, but I'm improving all the time.
You will turn to me and "well it's your own fault". Some of it is, but I went to my doctor last year, and I discussed with him if my problems were related to my diet and if Coca Cola and stuff like that is causing the problems. He shook his head and dismissed it right away. I'm telling you one thing Evil One the whole anti depressant thing is a joke, ADHD, depression, anxiety, it's all connected to your diet. All this talk about a natural chemical imbalance in the brain is rubbish. Alcohol Companies, Coca Cola, Nestle, Cadburys, and many others are driving people mad with their products.
It was only when I cut off all that stuff that I started getting better!!!!! But ohhh no the doctors, and the psychiatrists brush that under the carpet, and tell you the drugs are your only solution. It makes me sick!!!!!!!!!

It's not rubbish. There are many reasons why people suffer from anxiety or depression. Just because you have decided that you have an addictive problem, why should the many people who can enjoy the list of items you would have banned, and enjoy them in moderation, be prevented from having them?

Alcohol in moderation harms no-one. I don't particularly like McDonalds and rarely eat their burgers .. but if they're the only place open, a cheeseburger on occasions isn't going to damage my health. I have no significant reaction to caffeine in moderation either. Don't suffer headaches if I drink a lot of coffee one day .. nor suffer any symptoms if another day I have none at all. If I did I'd simply avoid caffeinated drinks and drink decaff coffee. I enjoy chocolate .. love it in fact .. but can say no to it. I loathe cola drinks so avoid them like the plague .. simply because I don't like the taste.

As Evil says .. people need to take responsibility. The majority shouldn't need to have their options restricted for the minority, and the majority are not being driven insane by the foods you mention. As for the "additives" you keep suggesting are in McDonalds, I do not believe they are adding some wicked chemical. It's true that their foods are known to be high on the glycemic index, and most people now know that such foods tend to mae us think we want to eat again too soon .. but we need to remember that if we have eaten we do not need to eat again until a reasonable interval has passed. Back to personal responsibility and education. Their sales strategies are less than helpful, but that's not a chemical issue.

On another thread you have said you eat meat and cheese. Fair enough, but these can contribute to ill-health if over-induged in, particularly cheese which is high in fat, and red meat which is harder for our systems to digest .. should we ban these too because they can contribute to obesity if some cannot control the amount they eat? Ban salt because those with high blood pressure should avoid it?

Well done for conquering your addictions .. but please don't foist their dangers on the world at large.

Caryl

Not only did I have an addictive problems, I had severe anxiety and despression, and I didn't decide I had it, I did have it. If people have no reaction to caffeine or any sort of stimulant that's fine. But you have millions of people popping pills everyday, children being unnecessary put on Ritalin. Loads of people walking around with bad depression, and mental problems wondering why? They go the doctor like I did and get lied to and mistreated. For those people it's very simple caffeine should be a no go area, so should nicotine and alcohol. You can sit behind your computer and criticize everything I wrote because you never suffered from any mental problems, because of this stuff. You are one of the lucky ones who gets away with consuming drugs on a regular basis which is what caffeine and alcohol is.

What makes me angry, is what the likes of doctors, psychiatrists, and drug companies get away with. I mean the cause of mental problems is soley dietary in my opinion. I've had it for years, and was told it was in my head, and I guarantee you Caryl there are millions of people out there who are told the same thing. I was sent to counsellors, I talked to loads of people. nothing work. I cut out the stimulants, and alcohol and for the first time in 8 years I've started to get better. If I had listened to the psychiatrists, I was finished. Lock me in a mental hospital and throw away the key. It's very hard for me to explain stuff like this to you, because you have no interest in it, and never suffered from anything like I said before. But there are people out there who know exactly what I'm talking about, and will agree 100% with what I'm saying.

Steve - I feel for the problems you have had, and I know others who have similar problems and are struggling to see a way out - but if we blame MacDonalds for obesity where do we stop. I am addicted to Meat Loaf concerts, and now (in my early forties) I have almost permanent ringing in my ears - is Meat to blame - well no I am as it was my choice to go to so many concerts. Where does it stop?
I am pleased you found your way out of your problems, but if everything that is potentially dangerous to us is banned our world would become a miserable place.

Steve, the fact that you happen to be highly sensitive to certain ingredients doesn't make restaurants or food producers responsible for your problem.

To an extent I do agree with you that those people should do more to make their food more healthy. A lot of convenience foods for example are packed with salt, which isn't necessary but is a very cheap constituent. I have kidney problems which means I have to maintain a low salt diet so things like that are out, and I keep restaurant meals and takeaways to a minimum. I do hope that the manufacturers will start making their foods more healthy (less salt, fat and sugar) but the only real solution is in the hands of the consumer - eat healthy foods.

Education is important. In my case (like yours I guess) that only came after a doctor's diagnosis (high blood pressure leading to heart and kidney damage). It's a family thing as father and younger brother have similar problems. Anyway, my weekly shop is vastly different these days with lots more fruit and veg, unprocessed meat and virtually nothing where the manufacturing process has given them a chance to put salt in. Eating this way means I can indulge in the occasional McDonalds or (far far better) Burger King.

I was diagnosed with ADHD about six years ago and was offered Ritalin but refused it as I didn't like the idea of taking tablets. Just after I was diagnosed I read something from another adult with ADHD that said that instead of taking Ritalin (which is a stimulant) they used caffeine to increase their concentration to allow them to function at a sensible level. It takes time to work out how much you can take but once you know, you can limit your intake of caffeine. Is this person addicted? I don't know but if they believe it helps them then fair enough, that's their decision.

I tried this person's suggestion myself after I kept getting into trouble at work for 'wandering off' but since I started doing this I noticed that I was lot more anxious than I used to be and I decided that whilst it worked for this other person, it clearly wasn't working for me so I started cutting down.
I drink decaff tea and coffee now but it's not always easy as some places just don't sell it but you get to know the kind of places that don't and you either avoid them or drink something else.

I think people's tolerance to addictive substances varies on the individual and whilst I don't smoke, drink alcohol or caffeine, I'm not going to stop someone else from doing so.

I've made so many more polls then steve and god combined and not one of my polls has ever had posts this long before.... I now have a whole new level of respect for Steve :shock:

as for me: ITS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT YOU EAT DIS :cool:

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...arioSmiley.gif

I said you had decided that your diet might be responsible for depression and anxiety (which latter I never suggested you did not have) in the sense "you came to the conclusion". Never suggested it was on a whim.

I merely disagreed with your apparent stance that McDonalds are putting something any more sinister in their burgers etc than foods which are harmful if consumed to excess, and that a range of foodstuffs should be banned because a minority suffer from what you term mental problems.

I can see you were and are angry.

That I strongly disagree with. There are many root causes of depression and anxiety, just as there are to other psychological problems. To suggest that the only problem is diet is ludicrous imo, and casts aside so many other causes, from bereavement or catastrophe to abuse.

Sorry, but you know very little about me or my life experiences, next to nothing in fact, so that's a rather arrogantly dismissive statement at worst, over simplistic at best. You say I have no interest in "stuff like this"? Wrong. You say I have never experienced anything like this? Wrong again. I have experienced acute depression; it was not caused by anything to do with my diet. I had to deal with the root causes and fight my own way out of it. I have had friends who did the same who I have helped. I have a relative who has suffered from bi-polar disorder most of her life, who without the drugs you so casually dismiss as some kind of evil, would probably not be alive today.

I agree that some psychlogical conditions can be due to chemicals; children's behavioural responses to certain E numbers for eg, or their responses to poor diet. I agree with Jamie Oliver 100% that school meals need to be of the type and quality that encourage attentiveness and discourage obesity. But not all symptoms of ACDH can be laid at the door of what they consume, and children's diet is a responsibility of their parents also. And the fact is that the majority of people will not have adverse reactions to the foodstuffs you call to be banned as long as they exercise restraint and moderation, and ultimately it's down to education and the fact that we all have to take responsibility.

I congratulated you for dealing with your own addictive issues, but like Stuart, I think that our world would be a sad place if everything that posed a problem to anyone was removed from it.

Caryl

Isn't the ringing Chelle talking to you? :lmao:

LOL...maybe i am bad for his health ? But he would have a very boring life without me;)
I personally think that we are all responsible for our own bodies and what we do to them. Its called willpower, i love my caffeine and have been known to have a 10 shot espresso. I have minimum 4 shots in one go as soon as i get out of bed. I suffer no ill effects from this at all, if i did i would have to give it up. I was on a low potassium and low phosphate diet for many years, not through choice, but to live i stuck to this diet. Now i don't have to, so i don't need the will power, i lapsed on one occasion and well lets just say i never did it again. But that was my fault, no one else's, i knew what i was doing. Same as people know if they shove a fuc,king huge processed burger down their throats that perhaps that isn't the healthiest thing to do. Its about choice, if you are addicted to anything and don't want to be i suggest using some self control. A lot of societys problems are caused by people wanting to pass the buck, oh its not my fault...well no it is ! you have a CHOICE !
I am addicted to nothing, cos what i choose is what i am happy with, whether it might be the healthiest thing, i don't give a fuc,k cos its my body ! Oh i forgot i am addicted to Meat concerts;) i am a bit deaf, maybe i could sue ? its not my fault;) Meat made me get addicted to his music :lol:

I knew I'd get a comment like that as soon as I posted, and why am I not surprised its you Andy. All I can say is that I couldn't possibly comment!! :lol:

:twisted: Well, you would do if he had posted the poll :mrgreen:

Absolutely. It's never someone's fault that they are fat - it's the food or their metabolism or anything else aside from the simple truth that they eat too much. So we get fat gits like this slob lodging law suits:

Gregory Rhymes, 15, has eaten at McDonald's almost every day since the age of six. His Macaholic addiction has taken his weight to 400lbs, although he is only 5ft 6in tall. 'I normally order the Big Mac, fries, icecream or shake - I like to Super Size my orders,' he said. Gregory has developed diabetes.

If he wants someone to blame, he should try his mother:

Rhymes' mother, Ruth, claims that she would not have let her son gorge himself if she had known the food contained such high levels of fat, cholesterol and salt. 'I always believed McDonald's food was healthy for my son,' she said.

The only thing they should put the blame on is the Stupidity gene, because they both have it. As does this guy:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...ibson/chav.gif

He sued the neighbour whose fence broke his leg. He lost the case. He also lost his foot. Serves the f*cker right.

Dave

Well said Dave ! The mother should be done for child abuse ! Cos she has given her kid a death sentence ! The stupid, ignorant tw@t !

Yep serves the numb tw@t's right !or was it left;) LOL...

All symtoms of ADHD are dietary. Last November I was diagnosed with ADHD so I know what it's all about!!!! and diet was never discussed much to my anger now. I was pushed onto drugs that made me a zombie for months, and made me worse. I could NEVER focus, I had never ending anxiety attacks. I was also on Effexor for two years, and when I think back of the horror I went through on that stuff, I don't know how I came through it to be honest. I also know a person who's taking drugs for ADHD and he goes out and drinks every weekend, then he walks around wondering why he feels like he does. Why don't doctors focus on cutting out that junk instead looking for the quick fix by handing out drugs? I mean the lesson isn't be learned. You wouldn't have thousands; if not millions of people commiting suicide or commiting terrible crimes if these drugs didn't exist. Children drink coke nearly every day, a child eats a lot of junk food, I did myself. That's why they have ADHD!!!! That's my opinion on the matter. There is always a reason for having a made up disease like ADHD and bipolar. But ask the doctors, psychiatrists, and pharmaceutical companies they'll tell you it's all natural, and you just got it, that's FACT!!!!!!! and in my opinion it's one of the biggest lies in society for decades.

You're making the mistake of extrapolating from your particular case to the whole wide world. It's true of course that sometimes problems are caused by a reaction to certain ingredients, and that sometimes doctors prescribe drugs when a change of diet or lifestyle will do the trick, but both are a small minority of cases. You can't go banning things just because a tiny number of people react to them. Heck, some kids react badly to sunlight so lets ban that, eh? Or should we all live in bubbles because some people would die if exposed to common microbes? Perhaps we should ban the internet because some people post a load of bollocks on it?

Dave

I drink a glass of fizzy pop every day and eat my fair share of junk food and I'm still pretty healthy. Some people have been ADHD/crazy/mental etc for thousands of years and I'm pretty sure there wasn't Ye Olde McDonalds around to receive all the blame.

But Dave you are talking as if it's only a few people suffering from the problems I'm talking about. There are millions of people taking prescription drugs around the world everyday. How many people are taking their lives from drug induced mental illness everyday too? I'm not talking about the ordinary person who has no problems with this stuff, and are functioning fine in their daily lives. Keep doing what your doing, but there is a darker side to this stuff that you probaly haven't experienced. There are millions who are having mental problems, and are being misdignosed with mental illness and being told it's natural. That's what I'm angry about. This chemical imbalance in the brain does exist alright, but it's caused by something you have done. It's just not a natural occurrence. That's my opinion on the matter. The whole field of psychiatry is flawed.

That's it!!! I'm not eating at McDonalds anymore. From now on I'm taking it home.:barf::barf:

Just because you post on the same internet forums as people does not mean you know them. You have no idea about the people who post here and what they have and have not experienced and I think it's immensely unfair that you've assumed that no-one can possible understand what you're talking about because no-one has been through what you have - you don't have a clue what we've been through.

Otherwise I agree entirely with Dave, it's about education and choice. I've had/got my fair share of problems - which I'm not prepared to go into here - and it's now up to me how I control them.

If we're using McDonalds as an example, I know that their burgers absolutely kill me, I enjoy them at the time but I know that if I eat one I'll be doubled up in pain because of it. So I have two choices - don't eat it and be fine, or eat it and suffer. It's entirely my choice, and if I choose not to eat one I certainly don't expect everyone else to cut them out too, it's nothing to do with them.

As for ADHD, I taught a lot of children who suffered with it and I'm struggling to find the link between having/getting ADHD and diet. I agree with Caryl entirely that diet does have an impact on people with ADHD, perhaps more so than those that don't suffer with it, and cutting out the E-numbers and caffeine can drastically improve the attitude and behaviour of someone that suffers with it, but I don't for one minute think that "bad" food content can actually give you ADHD in the first place.

No, they're not, although I agree that modifying diet may often ease if not remove the associated symptoms. Dave's beat me to it in pointing out that you're taking your own experience, which I'm not doubting, and applying it as a universal truth. You go on to describe both ADHD and bi-polar as "made up diseases", which is as baffling as it's incorrect. You're not an expert on bi-polar disease and to suggest that genuine bi-polar disease is purely food-related is just nonsense, and diminishes the seriousness of the condition for those who have it. And your suggestion that everything that you object to being in existence causes millions of suicides is a wild exaggeration in my view.

A remarkable one in 300 people are estimated to be gluten intolerant; probably a higher percentage than those affected by ADHD or bi-polar. Many are also dairy intolerant. Should we ban wheat, dairy and all wheat and dairy related products as well? Of course not; for most of us they're part of a normal healthy diet.

To hold a strong and emotional opinion doesn't make your view fact. Not all children eat junk food, nor drink coke every day. Both are OK if consumed in moderation and you are active enough to burn off the calories you've taken in, which brings us back to parental education and responsibility, and adults taking responsiblity themselves.

I agree with Dave that food producers should address the issue of making convenience foods more healthy; their response to eradicating transfats has been encouraging, and many are starting to lower salt and sugar content. But the basic issue remains. We don't need to consume convenience foods in quantity; it's a choice. There are plenty of other options .. like buying basic ingredients and cooking meals. The energy consumed in preparing them also means you use a few more calories than just opening a styrofoam box, can or packet! Education can help people make better informed choices, but ultimately it's down to the individual.

Caryl

Indeed. The food producers are responding to public pressure, though rather slowly, but we all of course have the option of finding healthier options. For example rather than buying bread, which contains more table salt than you might think, I bake my own replacing the normal Sodium salt with Potassium salt. It's more work of course, but home baked bread is nicer and it helps keep that blood pressure down and me alive. :-). And whilst I've always cooked, these days it's all from basic ingredients and almost never any a pre-packed meal (I think I've had just one in the last year).

Dave

My opinion is that ADHD and Bi-Polar are made up diseases. I mean you look at Meat Loaf's case for example, he had mental problems in the early 80s, because of drug abuse, does that make him an ADHD or Bi-Polar sufferer? There was nothing natural about it, it was the drugs. I'm sure he would tell you that himself. That was the cause for him the same way it's the cause for millions of other people around the world. But as I said before, you'll probaly get told it's natural like I was.

What I've said might not be universal truth as you and Dave have said Caryl, but there are thousands of people around the world who have gone through and are going through the same thing I am. There are two sides to every argument. You'll have people on this forum that will back up everything you have said. But then a lot of people will think I've made very valid points too. We could debate this for hours, because their so many unanswered questions in this whole area anyway. You probaly support the idea of medication, but the very real truth is; it's trial and error, because they don't know how this stuff works. But money talks, it's great that people get mental illness so they can profit from something that doesn't exist. My opinion!!!!!!

i wish you were deputy prime minister, (with jezza clarkson as leader)

How can you possibly start a sentence with "the very real truth is..." and end it with "My opinion!!!" ?

As for your comments above, if you genuinely believe that mental illness doesn't exist then that's up to you, but I'd be a lot more cautious as to how you word that, because that last statement frankly is an insult to anyone who's had even a sniff of a "mental illness".

Nor do I think it's as simple as that with genuine ADHD in the majority of children. Unlike Steve, scientists are not sure what causes ADHD, but many studies indicate a strong genetic link. For eg children with ADHD who carry a particular version of a certain gene have thinner brain tissue in the areas of the brain associated with attention, and research has shown that this isn't permanent and as they grow up the brain develops to a noral level and the symptoms reduce. There's also evidence of a link between the condition and women smoking/drinking alcohol during pregnancy. Children exposed to high levels of lead seem to be more disposed to ADHD, which might explain why the condition has surfaced so strongly in the last 30 years, given the levels of pollution in our cities. In a small percentage it can be traced to an earlier brain injury.

Food additives are thought to be a possible contributory factor, and although sugar is widely supposed to exaccerbate symptoms, more research discounts this than supports it, and much of the evidence is allegorical and based on the effect of replacing an unhealthy diet with an across the board healthy one which improves most children's ability to concentrate and learn, whether they have ADHD or not.

The difficulty is that it's a condition that is hard to diagnose (imo many children are held to have attention deficiency may not actually have the condition, but display the symptoms for other reasons) .. and when parents decide their child has ADHD and treat solely by diet it's hard to be sure how far the resulting improvements are due to the diet solely and how far to the increased nurture and attention the child is receiving .. a bit like the Hawthorne effect in training, when behaviour changes because of observation and attention rather than because of the training itself.

Caryl

So then you are aware that caffeine actually works as a calming agent in individuals who suffer with ADHD symptoms?

Just sayin...

No, you don't. I wear glasses - does that make me an expert on myopia? I have high blood pressure and associated kidney disease, but I'm an expert in neither. The only thing I do know much about is how those things affect me and how in turn they respond to changes I make in my diet and lifestyle. In that regard I probably do know more about how my body reacts than my doctor does, since I live with it and he only sees me for 10 minutes every 6 months or so. What this means in practice is that ongoing treatment is a joint effort by both of us to adjust the strength and types of medication to keep the BP under control (not too high and not too low) and with a minimum of side effects. I could go on, but my point is that you can't expect any doctor to have all the answers, and that finding the best solution is something you may have to help you doctor with.

Dave

I said the very real truth is the medication is trial and error because they don't know how this stuff works. That's the truth.

My opinion was "It's great that people suffer from mental illness, because doctors, psychiatrists, and pharmaceutical companies can make a profit from diseases that don't exist. Money talks".

Actually you have just insulted me with that comment. Why would I come on here and insult people with mental illness? considering I'm suffering with it now, and severely for 8 years. I even had it as a child. Honestly I think I'm entitled to word it as I see fit. I have a strong knowledge of the whole area, and I should at this stage. I would have begged for just a sniff of mental illness. I would have celebrated for week.

Caffeine works for a few hours. Like any drug it gives you a boost, and can make you addicted. But all it does is add fuel to fire, and makes your symptoms worse over a longer period.

I have no idea why you would, but you word everything in such a way that suggests that because you have experienced certain things then you know more about it than anyone else will ever know, and I stick with what I originally that I think anyone here would be insulted by your statement, given your post started with "ADHD and Bi-Polar are made up diseases" - if you're insulted by what I said then imagine how someone diagnosed bi-polar would feel about yours.

Dave you can't compare physical problems to mental ones. At least physical conditions can be diagnosed and treated. Mental Illness treament is flawed with nothing but trial and error. Four years ago I was diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and then 3 years later I had ADHD!!! I was even told I could have bipolar. Which is it???

I know nothing about drugs for mental illness, but "trial and error" is required for any long term medication since you have to strike a balance between fixing the problem and causing side-effects, and everyone is different. This is not to say that the doctors and drug companies don't know how it works; it's saying that every person reacts differently. I changed my medication after the previous drugs caused a dry throat. It's just one of the known possible side-effects, and for whatever reason I was one of the people that reacted that way. I simply researched alternatives, spoke to my doctor about it and agreed on a replacement. Problem solved. This kind of thing is normal, not because they don't know how the old drug worked (they did) but because I was in the minority of cases where the side-effect happened.

Dave

Maybe it's GADADHDBP.:??::?

And he has never claimed to have ADHD or bipolar disorder. To suggest this condition is "made up" is simply cruel. It's a serious illness, devastating for the sufferer and their families, and there is overwhelming evidence that it can be inherited and that there is a genetic vulnerability to developing it. Diet alone is not the answer, and I have known several people with the condition who have always enjoyed a healthy diet, rarely if at all drank alcohol, who are so thankful for finally finding the right balance of medication to enable them to lead normal lives.

As to your being told you have bi-polar, I cannot comment, save to say you may have exbibited some of the symptoms, but I doubt you had the condition as such if merely eating a healthy diet had apparently eradicated it'.

The difference is that I acknowledge that a healthy diet has a part to play in relieving the symptoms of ADHD, often a vital one, whereas you keep trumpeting on that it's diet alone and that bi-polar disorder is a "made up" condition. I don't use multiple exclamation points either.

Again, you don't know what I support because you have just made the assumption. I have repeatedly said that diet has an important part to play. But yes, I do support medication when diet alone does not work .. as it won't with genuine bi-polar chemical inbalance. Indeed, it's trial and error, because science is still working to establsh a better understanding .. but when the right combination is found the result is close to miraculous.

And a bizarrely ill-informed one in mine. Thank god for all the wonderful drugs that have been discovered. You're in your early 20s? No worries about dying from smallpox or polio then .. nor flu and all manner of diseases that have been either eradicated or minimised because of the work of the scientists and drug companies .. drugs to enable transplants, to reduce tumours, regulate blood pressure, to give those with alzheimers a longer better quality of life.

And yes, drugs to give those with bi-polar disorder and conditions such as schizophrenia, chronic and severe depression a chance of a decent quality of life. So many mental illnesses which for so lmany years had people confined to institutions, which can now be treated successfully. I'm not advocating the widespread prescription of mood drugs to people who just look for an easy path when life becomes depressing or disappointing, and yes, mistakes have been made along the way; the widespread prescription of valium in the 80s is a good example. But for those with severe and chronic depression they can be a life-saver when prescribed and monitored/managed well and for those with acute depression they can be helpful for a short time.

Just as with food and drink .. moderation and management and personal responsibility.

Caryl

It is all personal choice in the end... As for me and my Starbucks... We shall be happy forever after. :-P

I'm confused. On the one hand, Steve6 stresses to have suffered from mental problems, on the other hand he claims it's something that doesn't exist. How can you actually suffer from something that has been "made up"?

Easy. I'm suffering from a non-existence of chocolate in the house right now.

:twisted:

That was mean, I want chocolate now. :drool: And if I get fat, I'll blame it on daveake because he made me think of chocolate and indirectly urged me to go to the shop next door to buy some. :))

Get some for me whilst you're there :-)

Steve's "debating" style has a tendency to do that ;)

I have dozens of bars of dark chocolate in the house .. but have resisted them, although I drank some coffee to write a hopefully cogent response to some of the "fact!!!"s :lol:

Caryl

Eat that filth and it will give you leprosy. :twisted:

I've taken some time out to have a think about everything that has been discussed on this thread so far. I'll accept that maybe I shouldn't have made so many assumptions based on my own personal experience. But diet change is working for me. I'll admit that's it's a very slow process, but in my opinion it's a better one than the medication route. Which was a terrible one for me, so many dark days even years.
I'll be honest discussing this whole area makes me very upset, because of what I lost through putting drugs into my body. Being lied to by professionals, and fighting it all my own. If drugs didn't exist I'd be very happy right now, and wouldn't have went through any mental torture. There is only so much of it I can explain over the Internet, because it's very very long story stretching back to my childhood. But I blame it all on drugs. I don't want to keep disagreeing with Caryl, Dave, or Lucy because they are right, and I'm wrong. I just get angry about it is all.

Good stuff. I think I'll send you a gift to celebrate the fact that you've come round to my way of thinking. One question before I order it ...

... "do you want fries with that?"

Dave :twisted:

Which is great, and you're to be congratulated that you've stuck to it and found your way, and one that suits you. It's just dangerous to assume that one size fits all with any treatment, and particlarly with treatment of psychological or behavioural issues/disorders.

Caryl

Only if they're proper chips and fried in grapeseed oil ;)

Caryl

Both you and I Steve have admitted in this thread that we have been diagnosed with ADHD (which you stated was a made up disease and I admit I took offense to). The symptoms I have had to deal with all my life certainly weren't made up but I can see that you have thought again about this and realised that some of the things you said were an assumption.

I've not found diet to be the sole factor in controlling my symptoms as even when I was on a strict diet set by medical professionals I still had issues with concentration and hyperactivity. Yes, cutting down on caffeine helped with anxiety but other than that I've not noticed much of a change in the way I am.

I'm glad that a change in diet helped you but how people react to anything varies from person to person.

Sky

:twisted: There are worse things in the world than coke.
Should we ban milk, cheese, butter to stop the lactose intolerant from being tempted?
How about nuts?
Nut alergies can kill, so should we ban all nuts (don't say it :facepalm: ) so people are unable to show disreguard for their lives rather deny themselves the nutty goodness? :wtf:

If somebody has a medical issue with an ingredient, then the problem is hopefully spotted early enough, and the patient is educated in how they can live their lives to the full in spite of their condition.
That doesn't mean the whole world has to change their eating habits.

I may be wrong here, but the way i'm reading this thread, it looks like it's being said there is a direct link between junk food and mental illness :nuts:

All I can say to that is that it would make a great ad campaign :bleh:

"You might scream for ice cream,
but you'll go crrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrazy for our new tripple whopper with bacon"


I was under the impression that McDonalds was being blamed for making people fat, not cuckoo.

Addiction wise, certain foods can only be discribed addictive because they stimulate the release of endorphines into the body, making them pleasurable to eat, but it's hardly common that this is a serious addiction.

If someone has issues with chocolate (diabetes for instance) then they should avoid chocolate, not eat as much as they can and then call for the head of Willy Wonka on a plate.



There are genuine cases, but they are in the minority.
It's like footballers or other celebs who get caught playing away from home and claim that they are "sex addicts", that they are victims who should be understood and pitied.
If "like" is to be replaced with "addicted to", i'm in deep shit and need to get to rehab :panic:




No shit? :bleh:

If that is true (which I very much doubt) then she needs to have her children taken away from her as she is obviously mentally incapable of the looking after a child.
What next? "I threw my kid in front of a bus but I never knew it could hurt him" :wtf:

Amen :pray:

Indeed. All they're doing is taking advantage of their celeb status to, in the immortal words of a rock star on some TV prog recently, "shag above their station". :lmao:

I have an aversion to descibing either psychological or behavioural problems as "mental". I think it's probably established that behavioural problems can be exaccerbated by certain food, and children's concentration can be affected by their diet. Most of us have argued that what we eat and drink can affect behaviour but isn't the sole cause of behavioural issues, depression, anxiety etc. Steve has found omitting certain types of food has helped him.

Fast food does tend to be heavy with unnecesary sugar, E additives, caffeine, salt etc, as does a lot of the "convenience" food available. It does lead to obesity in many who don't exercise moderation, which can lead to many other issues like diabetes, and it isn't a good diet for children on a regular basis. But I think most have agreed that the important factors are exercising moderation, education, taking personal responsibility, exercising responsible and informed parenting rather than banning the foods/drinks. Even Steve seems to have come to a level of agreement about this now :-)

Your comment about nut allergies is interesting. Many schools now won't allow any food with nuts on the premises; an increasing number are against any form of home baking being brought in, for meals/snacks or fund raising activities. I can't help wonder why our children have become so sensitive. Nut allergies weren't an issue when I was at school, nor did we ever have a child drop to the floor stricken with a reaction. But there was far less pollution from vehicle emissions, and we ate more simply and "convenience" and "junk" foods weren't around. I can't recall any schoolmate auffering from asthma either, nor exhibiting symptoms of gluten or dairy intolerance. Though I'm pretty sure all the paint at school was lead-based, and our mothers were not forbidden to drink or smoke when they were pregnant.

I can't help but think that the environment must have an effect, and that the extensive use of E numbers and other preservatives may be increasing some children's food sensitivity, not just in terms of behaviour but also in their bodies' reactions to certain foods. Still doesn't mean we should ban all convenience or "jumk" foods imo .. back to education and parenting.

Caryl

I seriously need chocolate and coke, lucky me i have both ! The proper coke as i call it in the glass bottles, it tastes better.
I feel for anyone who is on any type of diet, it's hard, i have been there several times, for various reasons. An espresso would have killed me at one time, i shall enjoy while i can, one day i may have to go back to not being allowed it.
So for those on diets for whatever reason i have sympathy, i hope anyone who has to restrict themselves that you find the will power !
By the way thank God for drug companies is all i can say !

Wow! I'm going to drink a glass of water now.

I just drank a bottle of German cola with a very high concentration of caffeine. Do I have a good excuse for being crazy now? :hic: ;)

not really as you were crazy anyway

thats a quality addiction.. i need alcohol and dominos pizza :D

What's the difference between German cola and UK cola? Is this own brand or proper Coke/Pepsi?

it was probably kraken auf cola... its quite strong

fritz-kola from Hamburg - contains more caffeine than many other colas.

There is a direct link due to chemicals in the food and its been proven. But that's not to be confused with all mental illnesses are down to eating junk food nor eating junk food can/will send you mental.

You're not a slim guy, so I'm guessing you eat a lot of shit (high in fat and sugars) and don't do much exercise, would someone call you mental?...who knows :shrug: but eating a lot of shit food and not doing much exercise is a mental order or disorder, especially when we know eating healthier and doing exercise is better for our health.

I don't give my kids much junk food (once or twice a month at most) they eat a lot of fresh meat, seafood, vegetables and fruits. They only eat a small number of sweets on a Sunday and that's it and they seem to behave normally. However, I know several kids at the school who are allowed to eat junk food and sweets all the time and they're practically bouncing off the walls.

This is also down to parenting too though. I find that it's more often than not the kids whose parents don't care what crap their kids eat have the biggest problems with their kids.

As a fat git with no willpower, I appreciate the discussion. :roll:
I know I am responsible for myself. I agree totally.
But do I have a mental order (???) or disorder because I choose to eat what I want? No.

A lack of willpower (which you've readily admitted) is a form of mental disorder is it not? The ability for self-discipline isn't there, even when there is a clear risk to health. People who want to lose weight should see a psychiatrist first and not a dietician, because mentally they either can't stop stuffing their face or they're eating all the wrong things.

Not many would argue that someone with anorexia has a mental disorder, so why can't fat people have a mental disorder too?

No I don't think a lack of willpower is a mental disorder. Indeed, I don't think I have a lack of willpower. I make a choice. My choice.

SELF-discipline would be there if I choose for it to be there. As for the risk to health, I'm not debating that being overweight is a health risk. It is, but so is walking across the street, playing sports, smoking, drinking and in some places going out after dark. Do you have a mental disorder if you do those. No.

I don't have a mental disorder, I choose for myself. You might not like it or agree with it, but it's not your choice.

I agree that some people become addicted to food, just like people get addicted to other things. I don't think most addictions are mental disorders, necessarily. I agree they may need therapy or counseling to get to the root of their issue, but that doesn't necessarily give them a disorder.

I'm sorry I thought it was you who posted this.

Anyone who's addicted to anything has some sort of mental disorder. Whether it be food, alcohol, drugs or even Meat Loaf. I visit here far too often than I should, a clear sign of the beginnings of lunacy :wacko:

I disagree.

Your Will is controlled by your brain. So your WILL power is controlled by your brain.

If you cant control your WILLpower you have a disorder in your mental state of being.

Again, I disagree.

:shrug: dunno how you do... but ok

Some people don't want to think that they have any kind of mental disorder. With America being the number one country in the world for obesity. Using wikipedia as a quick source for stats (I know it's not 100% reliable but it's close enough) nearly 75% of American adults are either overweight or obese. If you're American and fat that I'm not surprised your brain is pickled into thinking you don't have any kind of mental disorder with your weight, as you'd think being fat IS normal :nuts:

I too disagree that lack of willpower, or indeed all obesity is due to "metal disorder". Yes, anorexia (as well as bulimia, which involves bouts of binge eating) are classified as such. But imo not all overweght is the result of binge eating. The current trend for increased obesity in developed countries owes much in my view to many other factors. We take less exercise, our lives are in many cases more sedentary. Food is not scarce, and there is an over-abundance of readily available luxury and convenience foods, all high in sugars and fats. Modern life means we tend to eat, not because we are hungry, but because it's there; because we have established patterns of eating our main meal in the evenings, after which we tend to relax rather than take exercise to use the calories we've consumed. We tend to use public transport or our own cars to get to places, rather than walk or cycle. We are assaulted by advertising, particularly for luxury and convenience foods. Typically we tend to use large dinner plates which encourage poorer portion control; dinner services from the 30s/40s have dinner plates which are the size of modern salad/"breakfast" plates. One thing I've changed is the size plate I use for most of my meals.

Anorexics have been found generally to have a skewed self image in terms of how they perceive their size; they will actually "see" their sillouette as larger (generally much larger) than it is when asked to match it to a variety of shaoes and sizes. Research into people who are overweight has found that sometimes they too perceive a different image, but mainly they don't. They are aware of their size.

People who are seriously overweight, ie clinically obese, are generally aware of it, frequently want to address the issue, but facing a prolonged period of dieting often give up, or put it off; the mountain they have created (in all senses of the word) seems just too large, too daunting to tackle. It is a question of willpower and commitment, but to not be able to harness that for a long haul does not imo mean one has a mental disorder. Foolish yes, and I speak as someone who was just that. But lack of willpower doesn't mean imo that one has a mental disorder, doesn't necessarily need counselling, and anyway to use counselling does not of itself mean one has what is medically termed a mental disorder. All of us are imperfect human beings, all carry some baggage, but that does not mean imo that we all have a "mental disorder" ..

I agree that to remain overweight and not tackle the problem is not helpful for one's long term health; you can argue that it's foolish and irresponsible. But to engage in regular bouts of heavy drinking isn't helpful or responsible either, because that too can have a long term effect on one's health, can get out of control. Some occupations are not (boxing springs to mind, where the objective is to render one's opponent unconscious .. ie deliver a level of brain damage); jockeys will often keep themselves seriously underweight. Smoking is an addiction, but even after successfully giving it up, many still miss the general experience of smoking.

People who are severely clinically obese may become depressed, at which point counselling may be a first step; and I think many overweight people do tend to use food as a "comfort" or "treat" when things go wrong or they're feeling a bit down but not clinically depressed. But mainly I think people who are overweight simply enjoy eating too much of the wrong things without taking sufficient exercise to burn off what they consume (it's a simple mathematical equation after all; if calories consumed exceed caloried burned your body will store the surplus as fat deposits.) And it isn't necessarily that they eat large amounts .. just indulging in the wrong things will do it. They have allowed themselves to pile on weight, often to the point where it becomes such a daunting task to deal with it that they find it difficult to summon up sufficient willpower. I'm not suggesting this is an excuse, simply a reason .. one which is not buried in the psyche .. just in the surplus pounds they carry ;)

I do agree though that obesity has become a significant problem for the countries of plenty, and that the seeds are sown often in childhood .. "clear your plate", poor parenting and diet etc. But to tackle it requires a great deal of willpower, and to find it difficult to exercise the amount required does not imo mean one has a mental disorder, nor does choosing to be overweight to a degree which might not be considered particularly healthy or to fit into today's standards of what looks attractive. You can argue that choice is foolish, but it's not necessarily indicative of mental disorder and an indicator for counselling, which isn't anyway a "fix" .. to be successful it requires choice and commitment from the person being counselled. Imo most overweight people, if they can harness that choice and the level of commitment required can lose weight. Support and encouragement from those around them will help though; and support groups making the same journey can be helpful, so that should they lapse or fall on the journey they are encouraged to get back on the journey rather than abandon it.

Caryl

Well how can I argue with wikipedia since it is the place for facts. :roll:
Again, again, I disagree with you.

I watched the last series of America's biggest loser and was absolutely astounded that people allowed themselves to get to 300, 400 over pounds ! Seriously did they not realise at 250 pounds that they had a problem ? They all lost a hell of a lot of weight, basically exercise and less calories, its hardly rocket science. I do however understand that some people are overweight cos they are on certain medications. Some on the show i could see had some mental hang ups, family problems etc, but we all have baggage, it depends how you deal with it i guess.
I would like to say that after i ate a whole bag of family size peanut M and Ms i was seriously anxious. Very odd, but that was my own fault for being a greedy basterd !

Not all but nearly all. Usually fat people say, it's down to 'their glands' being 'big boned' (that's the funniest excuse ever :lmao:), 'low metabolism' or some other pitiful reason the fat person has for not putting down the fork.

I'm slightly overweight because I eat too much and don't do enough exercise, that's a mental disorder on my part because I feel the need to be in the 'clean plate club' I know what needs to be done but don't do it.

I dunno' mental disorder said loudly enough in the states would warrant doctors to sign off on another "disability". I don't see them classifing obesity as a mental disorder. Gross/morbid obesity highly likely. But for joe bloke who was an athlete turned soft, not so much.

Good point. Some people would probably use any excuse they could find not to work and sponge off the taxpayers, and if being overweight was classed as a 'mental disorder' then BINGO! that's more time for the lazy fat b*stards to sit on their ass and fill their faces with shit.

I wonder what the figure is of people who are claiming benefits that are overweight?, probably quite high I'd imagine.

Exactly. And insurance companies here are offering wellness programs because it is cheaper to cover a person who is promoting a lifestyle change vs. monetarily dealing with health claims that are contributed to obesity.

I referred to "binge eating" which a feature of bulimia, and is not simply eating rather ore than you need in terms of the calories you burn; just as regularly drinking more than is ghood for you is not neessarily "binge drinking". It is compulsive overeating in which people consume huge amounts of food while feeling out of control and powerless to stop, can typically last around two hours. I was distinguishing this from those who just eat more than they burn, and over time it accumulates, resulting in severe overweight. Binge eating involves eating even when you are full, feel uncomfortable but still continue eating. I was severely overweight, but have never binge eaten, though clearly I was taking in more calories than I burned. We may allow this to continue over many years, the weight slowly accumulating.

You refer to "'low metabolism' or some other pitiful reason" .. well it's not an excuse but it is a contributory factor. We do have different metabolic rates, and these tend to slow down as we get older, hence it becomes more of challenge to lose and maintain weight loss. When obesity is treated in hospital they determine the individual's basal metabolic rate, and construct their calorie allowance based on that. It does differ .. not an excuse, but it is one factor which is real. Imo part of losing and maintaining weight loss is to work out what your calorie consumption in the average day is, and accept that you may be able to consume less calories than some others; it may not seem fair, but it's reality. "Bones" only play a part in terms of one's height; if you're 6' you are likely to burn more calories than if you're 5' .. similarly a larger set framed person will burn slightly more than a small-framed one .. but I agree that there are no fat skeletons :-)

We'll need to agree to disagree on that in terms of it being a "mental disorder". It's arguably not particularly healthy and lazy in terms of exercising control, but of itself doesn't imo mean you have a mental disorder .. and like Suzie I think that to determine all those who lack the self-control and discipline to face up to their own weight issues and accept the limit on their daily calorie consumption have a certifiable medical condition is unwise. And not principally because overweight people would "use any excuse they could find not to work and sponge off the taxpayers", but because it tends to remove responsibility from the individual in an area that is really about the choice one makes, and the willpower one can exercise if one chooses.

Caryl

One aspect hasn't been mentioned yet: money. In past centuries being fat was a symbol of being wealthy, now obesity has become a problem of the lower classes. If you're poor you tend to buy the cheapest food that often contains a lot of sugar and fat and other stuff that's not really healthy.

Well I've never seen a fat dwarf.

That's an excuse I've seen why people go to McDonalds and stuff their face, because they're poor, which is complete bullshit. I can feed my family on healthy stuff for a few days on the same amount it would cost to feed them at McDonalds. It's not because they're poor that they eat shit, it's because they're too sodding lazy to cook something decent. And if they're that sodding lazy to cook something decent, then they're probably that lazy to get a job.

I know people who are on welfare and it's damn hard to buy decent food with the amount of money granted to them. As for getting a job, it's not that easy over here. There are far more unemployed people than vacant positions. Let alone the fact that many poor people have a full-time job, but the salary is that low that they aren't better off than those who are on welfare - but that's another issue.

It isn't hard at all, it's just that most people I know who are on benefits tend to buy shite and things they don't need like cigarettes and alcohol. This is a real bugbear with me, as most of my family in the UK smoke, drink, are fat, lazy, eat complete crap and are on benefits sponging off the taxpayers :angry:

I don't deny that there are people who are just too lazy (or too stupid) to cook, to work or to manage their finances properly and I know that there are people who know how to exploit the welfare system in order to get as much money as possible out of it but I can't stand prejudices. Once a week I see the poor lining up in front of our church for food because they cannot afford to buy food at the supermarket for the whole month. I have even seen people raiding trash cans recently (in this rich country, go figure) - something I had never witnessed before. I guess that's rather due to major changes in the welfare system and the labour market (that forces even skilled workers to work for pittance) - not due to people being lazy.

Would I be correct in assuming then that these 'poor' people are skinny because they can't afford to eat?

I was about to write a detailed response but realized that you're not interested in an objective discussion, you only want to provoke and spread your prejudices. I'm not gonna play that game.

I think you've raised an interesting point, and I'm interested in objective discussion.

There's often a tendency for low income families to opt for cheaper convenience foods, say they can't afford to diet because fresh fruit and salad vegetables are too expensive. I believe they're wrong, but it comes back to education, both at school and in the home, and as you say many of the cheaper foods that are readily available and promoted in supermarkets are high in unhealthy ingredients and additives. I make a choice now to eat meat that has been humanely reared, eggs from free range chickens, avoid transfats .. but they cost more than the other options. I eat less meat as a result, but I am also in the fortunate position that I can afford better quality food and do not have to feed a family, and I know how to cook and make the best of what I buy. There's a generation now, many of whom don't know how to do this .. they never learned to, and should not imo be dismissed as lazy, stupid etc They had the education and upbringing they were given. We're not born feckless, stupid, lazy .. we are a product of our upbringing and schooling.

It is possible to eat healthily on a low budget. When I was a student 6 of us shared an old terraced house in the East end of London; no bathroom and an outside loo ;) We had very little money, but we ate healthily. You can provide a nourishing and satisfying stew with cheap vegetables and a small amount of meat or offal .. even an Oxo cube instead of the meat. We even had a cooked breakfast every morning, whether it was an egg, or baked beans on toast. And ox liver was a regular feature on our menu. Casseroled with veg it made a wonderfully rich and tasty meal .. although the texture was like old boot leathers .. :lol: But we'd all learned to cook at home from mothers who remembered rationing and food shortages. We had no biscuits, sweets, potato chips etc in the house; they weren't in the budget. Cake was a treat and was made from scratch.

Years later when I had my daughter and as a single mother took unpaid leave for the first 6 months of her life, I as on benefits. After rent, bills etc there was not much left over, but I went back to shopping at street markets, buying the cheapest cuts of meat, picking up things on their sell-by date which were reduced (which I still do today!) etc. It can be done, but if you don't know how to do it it's hard. I've seen families in the poverty trap on benefits buying individual meat pies and frozen chips whilst saying they can't afford to buy healthy food, yet they could cook a healthy meal from scratch for the same money ... if they knew how. They're not all lazy or spongers .. just not educated in how to shop cheaply and cook healthy meals. But living on benefit isn't easy, and generally you don't have much money imo.

Jamie Oliver has changed the way school meals are provided here (he's currently attempting the same thing in the USA), often fighting parents who are keener on their children's "rights" to eat fried foods that they are about their health .. ignorance through poor education again imo. Fact; he needed more money to be spent on the food budget to provide good, healthy food that would attract the kids. Imo that's because kids now grow up in a world where expectations are different, and they expect choice, and the meals have to be really appealing. Not saying that's a good thing, but it's what is .. and to effect change you have to work with what is, not just shout at people, or dismiss them as lazy ;) But if this generation learn to enjoy healthier foods, and are educated on how to do this cheaply, things can change and improve.

A friend of mine had to bring up her family on benefits or low pay for several years. And neither she nor her husband were "lazy gits". Her husband was made redundant during a depression; there were few jobs, he worked when he could, taking jobs that were menial and low paid. They had 4 children, who all needed clothes; she made them. She scoured the markets, still fed her family well, although cheaply. But it was difficult. One daughter was musically gifted .. and as she said "A clarinet doesn't stew up well!" But she too had learned how to put food on the table cheaply from her mother. If you've never been shown how to make a pie from scratch, perhaps never eaten one, it's all too easy to believe the only way is to buy one .. in which case when you have little money you'll turn to the cheapest but worst processed and unhealthy pie to put on the table. But her children learned from her, and when times have been tough they have been able to feed their families well. It's a circle which can be vicious and downward spiralling, or positive and improving.

You can buy a turkey leg for £3 and it will feed a family of 6 for Sunday lunch, albeit frugally .. but you need the education to understand that, and for many years our "domestic science" classes in schools concentrated on making sponge cakes etc rather on how to feed a family nutritious meals on a shoestring. Change needs to happen; it won't happen overnight, but it can start.

And yes, I'm sure some of the people dumpster diving also smoke or drink cheap booze, or may be on drugs. True, some may be homeless because of drink or drugs; but some are not and turn to these options because of the life they've been cast into. Again, not an excuse, but a reason. To be made homeless is an incredible blow to one's ability to act with intelligence. Living in a hostel or bedsit is hardly conducive to taking responsibility for feeding yourself or your family properly; and many people are becoming homeless because of the economy downturn. I do not dismiss them all as scroungers.

Caryl

In case anyone was wondering about the nutritional qualities of a McDonald's meal, take a look at this ...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/...91_634x471.jpg

That's what it looks like after 171 days !!!.

It's obviously not made of anything biodegradable!

Looks good enough to eat. Any takers???;)

I think the Fries packet and the plate are starting to break down.:O:D

Alongside of the costs of healthy foods and product of environment. The active* family here in the states often would opt for the unhealthier option due to convenience. The other is taste. Some people really just like the taste of unhealthy food.

*by active I mean the family has a lot of things to do in a day and may not include exercising for the adult at times.

:twisted: This could revolutionise the undertaking trade.
Don't embalm bodies, just stuff em full of mackies.