Possible scam warning
 

With regard to this thread: http://www.mlukfc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15259, do not offer any kind of support, wether financial or otherwise.

Read the last post in that thread and draw your own conclusions.

Just goes to show why you should never be nice to people! :twisted:

I smelled a rat from the off, hence my reluctance to do anything except offer condolences. I feel bad for all those people who took AJ on face value when the reality of it was he was simply pulling on heart strings for the chance of a free ticket. Just terrible that these things can happen like this.

Me too. The fact he was talking of attending another concert as well was also somewhat suspicious! :twisted:

I sincerely believe the stuff he was posting about singing with the band before the show was also hogwash but I held my tongue until now. Some people think the internet is a place where they can do what they like and say what they like to people which is fine, but when it goes further and you start extorting money from people, that's when it becomes that much worse.

That's what I thought too. When he contacted me directly for help I didn't reply. I would give money if it was organised through the site and everyone was in on it but not directly.

When he also decided to post "I have C..." in every thread I thought that was rather ridiculous. I hope he doesn't have it but if he does not then it is a f*cking insult to post in that way.

I've also removed him from my Facebook just to be safe.

using illness (and this kind of illness) for money purpose is a punch in the face and show so much disrespect to those who are really in need and those who are really ill. I'm disgusted.

Agreed, since when do the NLE invite guest singers. They've had some famous tribute acts in the audience. Steve Steinman was at RAH, I didn't see him climb the stage.

Yes, but I'm not surprised. In my experience people who are battling cancer get on with the fight and don't keep broadcasting it in an attempt to get sympathy or financial help; they have more dignity. Like Slice, my antennae pricked up at the first mention, and reading the accounts posted about the show just served to confirm my suspicions.

As you say it's such an affront to those with genuine illness. A dear friend of mine who has fought, and we hope beaten, breast cancer was appalled by this nasty attempt to scam money out of people. That it was only in part successful is thanks to Rainer's prudence and investigation.

I hope so; I'd hate to think Paul was taken in and thought he was doing something special for a person who was suffering from a life-threatening illness. I hope the story about Meat looking out into the crowd, looking him straight in the eyes and mouthing "That was for you" was hogwash too. Meat is always so kind and generous to people who have genuine stories of battling illness or despair. I hate seeing people take advantage of the good hearts of others :( It's beyond tacky; to me it's loathesome.

Caryl

It is unforgiveable. Utterly. Too many people have fought and died fighting the big C to make it anything other than deplorable and inhuman.

R did the right thing from the off. I can't deny that it concerned me enough to raise the issue weeks ago anyway in private to the mod team and I'm glad they have reacted so responsibly.

Don't thank me, I'm just the messenger. :bleh:
Ivestigational and organisational kudos belong to the mod team!

I didn't post on the thread but I did keep an eye on it.
I initially felt sorry for this person, but as the thread grew, I did start to feel suspicion.

To think somebody has taken advantage of many peoples good nature by claiming to have one of the worst conditions a person can suffer from is quite frankly disgusting!

I'm glad that this person has been found out.
Such a shame however, as you dont expect people to be so inhuman by doing something like this :( but i guess that happens sometimes:?

Mike.

I think what this does highlight and is something that's worth remembering is that just because someone posts regularly does not mean that you know them. Don't get me wrong, this fanclub/forum has created some lifelong friendships and relationships for many of us, but it's easy to forget that we've actually not even met so many people here...it's easy to get used to seeing someone's user-name and reading their posts but that is no indication at all to the person behind them.

That's not to say we should all be suspicious of those we've not met here but perhaps we need to "keep it real" a little more

He got off petty easy in a way. He got to go to a meat loaf concert because of some member's generosity.

If it were up to me Id press charges.

I seem to recall I was a little back stepped earlier for voicing my suspicions about him actually performing with The NLE.

Well Wario, you and I conversed about that via PM and you know you weren't the only one to feel that way.

Well it looks like he may face charges for the whole laptop thing anyway going by the PBnation thread. The good thing is if you pay through Paypal there is definitely some stuff they can do, however for some reason it seems he managed to use a friend's account, a friend now wanting an explanation obviously. Interesting he has lots of time available to set up a new Meat Loaf forum and to try to nab members away from here but no time to deal with the laptop dispute. What an ahole.

yep, just at a point in time i thought us two were the only ones that thought that.

Maybe so, but it is a damn shame nothing could be done to prevent honest posters losing money on this jerk.

We tried to warn people to use discretion as soon as we realised something was wrong. Until we had more proof there was sadly not much more that could be done.

If those who did contribute wish to pursue matters then if they contact myself or Rainer via PM, we'll collate the details of all those who were caught up and put them in touch with each other and provide what help we can in repoting this to the relevant authorities.

Well, fraud is against the law. If R wanted to he could press charges (not really recommended but its possible. I would think admins have an IP Databae)

Don't think you can lay blame with the mods here Wario or should expect R. to pursue this. They closed the thread very early to see what was going on as it was a strange case that I don't think any of us have come across before. An IP address won't tell you jack shit.

Oh no.. i wasnt laying blame. They are the best admins ever.

It was just a suggestion on how to find AJ. I dunno about IPs i just thought they tell you like your location.

And Andy pretty much summed it up in the post before me what I was trying to say.

Indeed, I think it would be down to the individual to pursue any criminal case if they wish. In te UK it would probably fall under Fraud by False Representation and things could get messy if the individual contributors who have lost out as a result of this matter are spread over different countries but there is clearly no blame to be laid at the door of anyone here except AJ.

Discretion should be used when speaking to anyone on the internet that you have not personally met and known for some time, that would be my advice as a police officer.

Well apparently he is "a certified computer technician" so he probably knows about proxies.

http://media.mlxxfc.net/pinocchio1.gif

On the other hand reading a certain thread on another mentioned forum reveals his home address :sherlock:

I suggest R. travels there to see what's what.

lol. I think AJ's going to that Dallas show. Unlikely he is gonna waste the ticket he got to that show. Im also awhere many forum members are going to that show. Thats gonna be interesting.

Maybe someone should bring a paint ball gun and shoot one in his balls or alternatively ask him how his cancer is doing. Do take photos though when he takes to the stage with the NLE.

Who else from the forum, besides myself, are planning on going to the show :??:
I would just like to be able to match names to faces :wink:

Could have sworn I saw here that a handful of people were going to the dallas show.

BTW Vicki, i feel so bad. You seemed to be really getting along with AJ.

Oh ok .. I know a lot of us were talking about it :-)

Thanks.

Probably one of the best things you have ever posted Wario. I completely agree. Especially Vicki embraced AJ with open arms. It makes me furious. :mad:

I've had dealings with AJ a few months ago and it didn't exactly go to plan. It was my own stupid fault for being so trustworthy but because of it I have his address.

I didn't reply to the message about his cancer diagnosis because of this earlier experience with him but had it have been proven to be genuine I'd have been as supportive as I would be to anyone who had just recieved such a diagnosis. I had a feeling that something wasn't right about what was going on but I didn't say anything in case my earlier experiences were clouding my judgement. When he started talking about playing with the NLE and things like that I knew he wasn't telling the truth.

It's just a shame that there are people who take advantage of others peoples generosity.

Thank you.

I don't know you, Vicki, but I followed the story here on the forum and I feel very bad for you, too.

Thanks :wink:

:twisted: This is how long this investigation has took.
We thought there was something wrong with his story from the get go.
For one, he seemed more concerned with the concert than his health, and with being put in touch with Meat directly.
I have a feeling that he had hopes Meat giving him a free VIP ticket complete with backstage pass, M&G, and maybe even a nice memento of the occasion.
Talking about how his tribute act was going from strength to strength, singing with the NLE (did anyone on this site believe a single word of that one? :nuts: ), thinking of going to another concert (hinting for a ticket IMHO) just made our suspicions that much stronger.

The problem was the possibility that we were wrong, and having enough proof or reasonable doubt to take direct action.
I'm sure you can all appreciate that if we publicly accused a cancer patient of being a fraudulent fake and banning him without any proof, and it turned out we were wrong, we would be less popular than an unwanted gas evacuation inside an astronaughts traveling togs.


Very sad, but very true.

It's my feeling that he may have known we had our suspicions (if he didn't, he's an idiot as well as an asshole) and he was facing a ban, and wanted to set up his own community in case things fell apart for him here.
What good that will do him though is pretty limited as the online Meat Loaf community have got his card marked.


This is regretable (more than regretable), but again, without proof there was only so much we were able to do due to the delicate nature of the problem.
I locked the thread and asked people to wait before making any donations so that they could go to an official source rather than a private individual in the hope that this would give us more time to look into the problem before people started handing over their hard earned.
It was our reasoning that if he supplied the details of his health care provider (ones that could be checked out and verrified) then he was for real, but if he was a fake he wouldn't be able to do this.
Numerous requests were sent asking for these details and delays were all we got back.
It was decided to give a deadline on the matter for one day this week, but this other evidence has made that redundant.

All in all, I can honestly say that I don't recall any other occurance of site moderation that has taken such time, deep thought, and discussion.
Between our deepening suspicions coupled with our desire to protect the membership from a scam, versus the slight possibility we were about to make a terrible mistake, nothing in my experience as a mod has ever been more difficult to call.
I think the team have acted in a highly resposible manner, and have done the best job anyone could have done under the same circumstances.


As for the scam itself, I am thoroughly disgusted.
Meat himself has supported cancer charities as his own mother was a cancer victim, and for someone who calls themselves a Meat Loaf fan to try to fraudulently profit from the good hearted and generous people of our community makes my blood boil.
Ironically, if he had posted an honest message saying "you know what folks, i'm a bit short of cash and I wanna go to this show, anyone fancy having a whip round to get me a ticket?" then I believe the people on this forum would have clubbed together and stumped up the money for the ticket, and there would have been no mod investigation as there was no fraud involved.

Between his scams and stories of tribute singing and getting on stage with the NLE, he's a con man and a fantisist.
He has no place here.

Very well said!

I'm going to the Dallas show, but don't know what he looks like so wouldn't know him if I tripped over him. I must admit I'm rather shocked at this and feel badly for the people who were taken in by him.

Carole

His phone number has been posted too. Lol.
Apparently his friend is going over to pick up the laptop tonight. Lol.
This story gets more crazy every hour.

I haven't posted on anything relating to this yet but have been observing from afar.

I just wanted to say that I'd agree with what Neil said above. I don't think it could have been approached any differently or better and was done so sensitively yet cautiously.

I also wanted to add, that whilst we do often start to feel we 'know' people who post on the forum regularly, I would have expected this to have been the same case for AJ getting to know the regular posters as 'people' rather than as their usernames and avatars, and so whilst it is one dispicable thing trying to 'con' a group of trusting people, it is several steps further doing so to people who would be considered 'friends'. Very sad indeed - for all involved.

But, well done to those who flagged issues and to the MLUKFC team for their actions and thorough investigation (in particular whoever managed to find that laptop thread on the other forum!).

I think the site and mods have behaved in an exemplary way, i applaud you.

I will be honest and say did not believe him, it just didn't add up.

I am disgusted that anyone can stoop so low as to feign illness for personal financial gain !
My family has been affected by cancer and continues to be, it beggars belief an individual can be such a f^cking tw^t !
I have made great friends on here, i know that 99% of people are genuine and honest and i cherish that. One f^cking dickhead will not spoil that, lets hope that he never really does have to deal with cancer !

So funny this is all being found out and discussed on his "birthday", though he is probably lying about that too.

I don't normally do this but will make an exception in this case - couldn't agree more, on all issues. Well said (despite necessity for ^signs ;-))

I'm not so sure that's very high up on my list of hopes.

I just feel so stupid right now :(
Sometimes I'm too gullable ... but I should have known better.

Thanks for taking care of this all of the mods did a great job.
Vicki

Don't Vicki!!!

You're one of the nicest people I know. Just because some rat does this you shouldn't feel and think any less of yourself. He had most of us going here. And he was certainly playing his way into becoming part of the gang it seems, posting in the off topic threads, the shout wall, etc. etc. Without that evidence from Pbnation there would be very little to back up any suspicions some may have had.

*hugz*

Thanks Andrew. I really appreciate it :wink: You're very nice too.
I honestly felt sorry for him and sent him a little bit to help with the concert ticket for MI :oops:
I'm just glad that I saw this thread and the posts on Pbnation before it went any further.

Bet we all wish we could have a quid/buck for everytime we've been taken in, I know I would.

Next in line with a hug when you're done with Dave!!!

:twisted: You shouldn't Vicki.
It's the nice people, the kind people, the generous people, that make the world a good place to be.
The world would be a much darker place without random acts of kindness.


The thing that makes this kind of scam so succesful is that it takes (IMHO) a seriously sick and deranged mind to even contemplate pretending to have cancer to defraud people.
A lot of decent folk would read his post and take what he said at face value because they simply can't comprehend a state of mind so sick as to lie about having cancer.
That is not gullability.
I think one of the reasons this investigation was so thorough was that I don't believe any of the mod team wanted this to be true.
It is not a nice feeling that this person was a member of our forum.

The biggest victim in all of this, I feel, is the next poor sod who is in genuine need and goes unaided because this con man has made the world the much more cynical.

Thanks Dave
*hugz*

This boy needs to read "The boy who cried wolf" before being allowed online again. Failing that has any effect placing him behind bars would be fine with me.

Thanks. Yes you're next :wink:

Thanks Mouse. That's how I feel too.
Exactly. It was devastating watching my Dad die of cancer, and I still can't believe someone would lie about having the disease :(

Do you think their should be a rule instated about this money thing? Maybe something along the lines of "no asking other users for money" or something?

Just a suggestion.

Not gullible, kind-hearted and caring. And it's a nice trait not a bad one that you are trusting enough not to assume anyone who comes along with a sorrow story isn't having you on - like many of us did (and let's face it, it's not a nice world to be in where you can't believe that kind of story until you have some evidence ... even then, some of us may still be too skeptical to believe).

Ha yeah I second that.

Vicki sorry to hear how this has affected you, but certainly don't blame yourself for someone else's actions!

What sort of clot provides his home address to people he's scamming? :roll:

like i said before, theres 3 sides to every story... on this occasion, we appear to have a ~~~~wit, kind and caring people, and a great mod team

You want a hug from Dave too? :bleh:

This has its logical side, but I'm sure there have been a few occasions in the past where people have been doing some sponsored event and advertised their sponsorship site here. So maybe it'd need further clarification in a no asking for money to be transferred directly to yourself kind of way. :shrug: I don't know.

:twisted: I rest my case.



It's never been something we have encouraged , but we have in the past (if I recall) let people have threads concerning sponsored events they are taking part in.
I think we've even stickied those threads for a week or so.
It's not something we've really had a problem with.

Also consider that this guy never actually asked for money.
He asked for advice (hey guys, what can I do), but it was pretty obvious what he wanted.
Then when he PM'd people who offered help, he did not PM them asking them for money (as I understand) rather he was asking "so what are you doing to help me?".
We can ban people from asking for money (and this guy wouldn't even technically come under that category), but we can't exactly ban people for being generous to somebody they think is in need.

It's something for the staff to think on.

Taken under advisement

He's not that clever....
'Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive''...



Sorry m8, didn't realise I was pushing in, please go first lol

I'll go in the middle and be a human contraceptive! :barf:

I shared my suspicions of this joker to the mod(s) . Seems once again the Proof was with the Pudding ;)

I was also fooled by the scam... :(

So you're not alone ;-)

Everyone should want a hug from Dave....why not? :shock:

Don't feel stupid Vicki, just because you were nice enough to offer help to him, and he took advantage of that generosity. I think everyone at some time gets taken in by people like that. Some people can be very convincing when pulling on our heart strings.

Carole

i'm really sorry that people were hurt and affected by this, so called, man who decided to use an absolutely horrendous disease simply to be popular and to take people's money.

the mods had a long discussion as to what should be done and in particular monstro, r, rj and Neil were in contact with this, so called, man trying to find out if this was genuine or a scam.

unfortunately it turned out to be a scam. there are genuine causes that need our help but the likes of this leaves a bad taste in the mouth and will, no doubt, make people a little hesitant when a donation is badly needed next time to a group.

what's worse is this, so called man, is on facebook boasting that he's been banned from here. karma comes around to punish bad people so i'm of the belief it will happen to this, so called, man

Thats why the MLUKFC Mod team is the best MOD team on the internet.

indeed :|

and regarding that:
I think there is no need for that. I'd say we should all learn from that story to be more critical and wait until the mods have figured out a way to reassure it's genuine and all is fine.
Things like that do not happen every second week after all, so adding another rule there is not necerssary if you ask me.

And also, adding that rule would make it even harder for the "next poor sod" neil mentioned to get help.

oh, and yes, you mods did a great job on that :)

Just out of interest, what is the policy on the mods/admins reading everyones personal messages? It could have turned out that this tosser had been begging those taken in for money via PM. Then again there is the issue of privacy to consider. I assume it's possible for someone to monitor all messages sent from/to a certain member, but would it ever be done?:shrug:

As Caryl rightfully pointed out earlier, anyone who's known someone battling cancer, knows that they get on with the fight and don't broadcast it to gain sympathy or financial help.

LOL..I wish the word ~~~~ing ~~~~ could be used in full flow for the piece of work that has took the piss out of the genuine people on here.

Aww Vicki, no, you were not stupid, gullible yes, but so have i been in the past on more than one occasion. Trusted someone then got screwed !
Please don't beat yourself up, you have a kind heart and that is a good quality to have.
I line up to give you a hug, who's next ? ;)

Does FUKKING TW@T work for you?

:twisted: technically, there is already a "t" in "@", so you don't need the t on the end, but I can deal with that :yep:

This is true.

LMFAO Absof%ckinglootley !

I am and was not in any position to donate and neither would I of offered to someone whom I've not only never met but on-line period. I buy every pin almost to support this cause and it makes me feel so sick and angry that someone would use this disease as a profit for their own gain.
As someone said earlier it is a massive slap in the face to those who are either going through it or has had it and battled it, someone in my family has had breast cancer and is now clear but it makes me angry realising this was a ploy to get a free ticket and what's worse people fell for it.

I will say that when Meat did the Newcastle charity event which was for cancer charities. Myself and my hubby raised £2000 given by members from here and .net and our own donation, this was a huge amount and we felt very privileged to be trusted with this money. Money i might add that was sent via personal cheques to myself, my paypal account and in cash.
Meat matched that money, which meant because of fans and Meat cancer charities got £4000. These charities were very grateful and do great work with the money raised.

I'm using the a in the @ symbol and not the sound of the symbol itself, because that would be text speak, like when people mispell mate for m8 or your for ur etc. Text speak pisses me off.

I agree :shock: :yep: !!

I am pleased i am not the only one who hates text speak !

:twisted: k, rit u r



:p

Yes, I think people who have genuinely been affected by it only speak of it publicly to help, support or console others .. not to elicit sympathy for themselves. Playing the card on a website dedicated to a man whose mother died of the disease, and who so often supports fundraising for cancer research, disgusts me.

Something else we agree on .. I abhor text-tawk too ;)

Caryl

Thanks Helen .. I really appreciate it :wink:

I'm sorry to hear that roomster :(

I guess it would explain to everybody who knows that I am generous to a fault why I never even touched any of this with a ten foot pole...although should the mod squad here have come to a conclusion that the claim is genuine I would quietly and gladly part with what you would call a few quid...but with so many scams around...hard to believe anything anymore...

Thanks Carole.

Thanks Chelle :wink:

And that's the sad thing :(

Exactly...too many girls/boys crying wolf...and people really needing help get lost in a shuffle...

OH MY GOSH! This is horrible -- i feel so duped.. i am thankful i did not send him money, but i sent him prayers and positive thoughts. I know this may sound weird, but when found this site (through Vicki and Suzieq) i was so happy to find a Meat Loaf fan site... i felt like family coming on here... to have this happen really saddens me. I am a moron who joined the "other" fan site,:oops: (can someone tell me how i can "unjoin" that site?) i was thinking could one have too many Meat Loaf fan sites? :) I now know the answer is yes one can.. Thank you MLUKFC Mods and Keepers for keeping this site safe. I am so sorry for all those who sent money to help him. I am going to Dallas and will be happy to take a paint ball gun with me! :twisted::evil::twisted::evil:

Its sick Ive lost 3 close family members to the Big C, and my Mum and her sister are also putting in their fight against Cancer, and the person deserve to be punished by the law for what they did.
I also had suspicions when they said they sang with the band, come on, everyone must have known that was bull. I honestly did believe that the person had been diagnosed with the big c, but would not make a donation without a site being set up etc. I am disgusted, using an internet forum to try and scam people.
Sick

No one should feel silly or bad for donating, you all believed the person to be genuine, and it shows that you’re good hearted and will help anyone in time of needs.


Its sad, really is sad that there is people out there like this

I'm sorry you feel duped too Megan :(
You're definitely not a moron .... unfortunately I still haven't figured out how to "unjoin" that other site. And I'm glad I'll be seeing you in Dallas !

I absolutely agree. Unfortunately I got suckered into this story about singing with the band ... I was actually happy for him :roll: But thank you for your kind words.

:(

It kind of really makes me angry when Ive lost 3 family members to big C and my Mum and Auntie are both putting up a fight against it, and you have morons like that leeching of people like my mum who wont pee and moan about the big C, and you get morons like that scamming innocent good hearted people, makes me sick.

Megan...I'm sorry that we were mislead. I'm still trying to find a way to unjoin and unless we email AJ to unjoin, that is the only way. I've deleted my single post from that site. As I do not want any association to this guy. In fact, I almost didn't join this alternative site, because I'm already on a forum with the single campaign, and YES you can have to many Meat Loaf homes. This site is enough when Meat is active, it often takes a lot of time to play catch up.

Vicki...I have a hug lined up for you, see you in Orlando.

Thanks Suzie :wink: I'm looking forward to seeing you in Orlando.

And I'm truly sorry that I told you about that other forum Megan :oops:
Aside from emailing AJ (which I absolutely refuse to do), I did a couple of things :

(1). Changed my email address to one that I never use
(2). Changed my personal settings on there so that no one (including him) could contact me via email.
(3). Changed my status so that I would be hidden if I ever go back online.

If anyone else has any suggestions, please let us know.
Thank you.

My general rule of thumb is: "If it seems too good to be true then it probably is" and "donate to the actual charity and not to the individual"

I don't think he will pursue any one of us individually...scam artists work fast and in bulk...to not get caught and make the big profit...I think none of us was individually targeted...it is seeing how we're really all very close here, we were rather targeted as a group...