It's out... on iTunes

I probably would purchase it if I used itunes. They are making it even more obscure by doing only 1 service with availability for digital.

My review of Hero.
 

This is my full take on the album...

So having listened to the album twice to give it a good chance to shine, this is my review of it.

First, i will say that just like Braver, people will like Hero and people will dislike it. Some will like bits of it. I think I'm in the latter category.

Hero for me is an album of missed opportunities, musical over indulgence and I'm actually quite sorry to say tracks that just seem pointlessly redundant in the face of what has gone before. It is like the music industry equivalent of Hollywood remaking Japanese horror films - flashy and loud but missing the subtleties and nuances that make the originals so memorable and long standing.

It is hard to single out the tracks as the main things that stopped me truly getting on board with the album is present throughout. I can't actually say it as well as Jim himself did ten years ago when talking about Bat 3 on his blog. It went a little something like this.

"The only words that crossed my mind a lot during the CD were: DYNAMICS; HUMOR; SPOKEN WORD, PIANO THUNDER and OPERATIC POWER. I missed those, but I "like" the album."

That leads back even further to the heading of a music magazine review of Couldn't Have Said It Better which was "It Don't Mean A Thing If It Ain't Got That Jim".

The song Couldn't Have Said It Better, was said by the magazine to be an attempt to imitate that almost worked but had some clumsy moments that gave it away, and in those three paragraphs is probably a better overview of Hero than i could put together. There are moments when it looks like something truly rooted in the magic on Steinman is about to appear ( for me the openings of Gonna Love Her For Both of Us and I'll Kill You If You Don't Come Back are the best things on the album, but only equate to around 30 seconds between them.) but then it becomes somehow lost in a niggling grind of background guitar noise and production so deep the voices are occasionally almost lost.

At the other end of the production spectrum, Heaven Can Wait is like Vince Vaughn’s shot for shot Psycho remake with nothing new to add, and in my opinion nowhere near the emotion of Meat’s original vocal. Objects In The Rear View Mirror severely lacks in the ethereal background vocals that Jim’s production gave it on Bat, or the emotional resonance of the Tanz Der Vampire versions.

Holding Out For A Hero and Total Eclipse of the Heart both start well, Total Eclipse in particular with a dark brooding edge, but then again something seems to change and to quote someone (I can’t recall whether it was Jim or in response to something Jim once said) who said it about Land of The Pigs on Bat 3, it is like no one can wait to blow their load in the first act leaving nothing to wait for. And that again is apparent time and time again.
For me, to do Steinman properly you build it. There’s always something coming in his biggest songs and there is a constant melody even when there shouldn’t be. The guitar solo of Frying Pan and Objects on Bat 2, the transition into the coda of All Revved Up, the loop back to the first verse repear of Bad For Good, the piano/drum build into the Say a Prayer section of Going All The Way.

This is partly why for me, Braver Than We Are on Hero will always be a step behind Going All The Way. The song, as it appears in Tanz, and on Braver, and in demos, is a building epic of movements with musically genius links and pay offs. On Braver each chorus arrives with a different gift to offer and the final segment is like everyone is racing towards that final moment. On Hero, it plays its hand early then at times feels rushed but without any drive behind it. It takes more inspiration from the theatrics of Tanz than anything else on occasion but doesn’t have the feeling Going All The Way injects with its nostalgic guitar sound and piano drive.

There are guitar solos lifted direct from their predecessors (Gonna Love Her and Kill You most notably), and the others just kind of sound like most other rock music out there, which again raises the question of why if the originals can’t be bettered. There are clunky moments in some transitions when changes happen in tone or depth that just seem out of the blue rather than planned and flowing, and occasionally it sounds like every sound effect and hand held ringing item had to be used somewhere and has been.

Tyce himself is a great singer, there’s no doubt of that. There are some times though he is so high, without much in the way of protection that good backing vocals would have helped out on, that it almost becomes screechy. His calibre is proven more, and this is a massive tell on the album as a whole, in the acoustic songs included as bonus material. It does seem odd that All Coming Back To Me Now is in the acoustic section as the main album version is barely more than that, but again, Tyce’s emotions, effort and abilities are must more apparent in raw acoustic version than the album take. Sometimes, it seems less is more and this is one of those times. For all it’s bells and whistles, there is something peculiarly hollow about the main album, while the supplementary add ons are actually what are worth a larger part of the cost of the album and to me would have made a better album on their own merits with minimal additional production. These versions lend something more to the honesty of the songs, and give a truly different perspective on some of them.

The album will sit in nicely with the other Steinman featuring playlists for me, but even though I had really high expectations of this and will listen to it, it doesn’t knock out any of the versions of the songs that have gone before.

Couldn't disagree more with that. CHSIB has a few weak moments but several tracks are absolute perfected produced and sung masterpieces. Jim's influence and the tribute to his style are there for sure but it didn't need Steinman imo.
In fact I think Tyce should have gone into that direction rather sing old songs which I just never think can be improved by anyone. It's a bit like the Springsteen tribute stuff. Tons of people have done it and there are really impressive renditions but other than full tribute bands I can't think of anyone who has made an entire career out of singing Bruce's songs other than Bruce himself.

Regardless I hope Tyce makes the most of the opportunities and people enjoy his album but it's not for me after listening to the iTunes previews. Good luck to him and appreciate the effort by everyone involved.

Stealing my Artist LOL M

2 of 3 or not just for women
 

Safe Sex and Rebel or not just for women , I thought about Safe Sex at one point . Jim had to give his blessing and the songs are not in the show . Least I don't think so . " Who Needs The Young "is in the show !!!

M

Hahah yes!! Julie and Boris are the most amazin artists!!! And super nice people also!

Nick

I love their artwork :D

Not true!

Totally true. Tink is 'Not Allowed to Love' Strat

Meat is this a hint that you'll be using Julie again, for another album cover? :P

Jims Words today on FB re Hero
 

On Fb today

"Congratulations!! A Massive task but smoothly executed, so many moments of brillance"

Words ^^^^ by Jim

if it passed the Jim test what else matters!

N

I liked CHSIB, but I think the only song's I've listened to recently that i can remember are basically the first half of it, after that something just seems to drop out, and that's how I felt listening to Hero.

The one thing i actually forgot to add is that on Tyce's Braver, the only parts I think actually make it are Alex's and the song in general would make me want to find out more about her than Tyce, which is why i felt the album lacked a bit. There are parts in Braver in particular - and mostly when the overbearing heavy metal kickdrum section arrives in the second verse through into the second chorus - where Tyce's voice is mostly lost but Alex's still shine's through.

Also the first lines of Braver, the ones that Meat took a lot of stick for on Going All The Way, I think even Tyce slightly struggles not to have an involuntary quivery sound in his voice (and I don't mean the slightly cut off between the verse and bridge), which to me gives Meat even more kudos for being able to pull it off when a much younger singer can only just manage.

LIke i said though, I do like the album, but most of it was disappointingly skip-able...(for me).

I have some misgivings about a couple of things on this album (such as the total lack of dynamics, and there's some sloppy piano playing in spots), but overall my first impression is positive. Holding Out For A Hero and I'll Kill You alone are worth the price tag, those two sound incredible with modern production.

Everything Is Permitted was the unexpected highlight of the album. That sounds great with just piano and vocals.

Just listened on itunes, seems like its been mastered weirdly. Very compressed and because of this there's not much dynamics, especially the vocals, theres no space for them to breathe and they get lost in the mix, the guitars are loud.

I think that was partly my problem with a lot of it - there was no breathing room. And it seemed quite frantic and racing towards the end. Some of the best parts of Steinman songs are the musical breaks and I don't think they were allowed to shine as much.

My only problem is really with Tyce's voice. He just seemed to over-sing stuff totally, like he is trying to imitate Meat and it doesn't sound quite natural to his voice or fitting. On the acoustic tracks he sounds so much better when he reigns it in completely and doesn't embellish. It's like a rock version of Mariah Carey's post mid 1990s voice how he is doing it, which just goes all over the place and becomes daunting to listen to.

I applaud the efforts by all involved, interesting arrangements from what I heard in places (though the timing and inclusion of braver I still find questionable). But great they got good feedback from Steinman himself.

Yes his vocal style reminds me a lot of Adam Lambert, I quite like his voice on the acoustic versions yes, theres more reverb on them and more space for them to breathe, I assume those were actually recorded live.

Objects misses the ethereal synth vox parts and dynamics the most.

Overall though it's probably better than Braver lol

What a lovely compliment re Adam Lambert, who is singing with Queen!!!! i agree and can see that!!!!....The acoustic songs were literally all ONE take live in the studio, no frills no fuss, just a one time thing and NO edits!!! and we got some remarkable results!!!

Nick

Better than Braver? AHAHAHAHAHAHA. :shock:

I ordered it on Amazon UK but from one of the third party sellers - was about £14 instead of Amazon's £27! Hoping it will arrive within a week (think it ships from Germany).

I'm glad Jim liked parts - as he does say "many moments of brilliance" - but of Braver he said "masterpiece." Braver is a whole entity, Hero is moments that are genuinely awesome (I do love the introduction of Tyce's Braver, but then the rest doesn't seem to follow.) but for me they were just too fleeting. I agree with what's been said about its almost like trying to push too much...Tyce's voice is possibly overly powerful when it isn't always necessary. The majority of Bat is actually sung quite quietly, which I think is why the live acoustic tracks are so much better - the emotions shine through and there are more dynamics in those piano only tracks.

Any idea if the digital tracks will be on Amazon? I'd like to try the full versions of "IGLHFBOU" and "Braver".

"Moments of Brilliance" from the master who penned the songs, i will take that all day long......and to be discussed within the same realm of meats braver???? i will also take that all day long

I have to say I really like this album and it grows oon me every time I listen. To my ears they set out to make modern rock versions of the songs and I think they did precisely that. I sympathise with the comment about Mariah Carey style vocals and hate it when things get unnecessarily twiddly. However I didn't find Tyce went over the top in that regard. In fact I think he knocks the vocals out of the park while also putting his own stamp on the songs, as does the production. In terms of the track Braver... well let's just say the bits I thought would work much better in the high male register work brilliantly well in the high male register.

All in all it's refreshing to have so much new or re imagined Jim content coming out and I really hope that all of the publicity adds up to lots of new young fans to keep Jim's legacy alive.

Thanks Nick, Tyce, and the team! I hope it's a massive success and opens the possibility of more in the future.

Thanks so much for this, makes us want to continue and do more.....the picking on Tyce's voice seems totally unnessesary to me (and the same with Meats voice for that matter) Tyce is only 24 years old choosing to sing some of the greatest and hardest songs ever written, ML will surely agree with that!!!!!and most in the original key Jim wrote in also!!, its his first album and to take on these epics was and is a monumental task!!!! Type is NOT Meat and Meat is NOT Tyce, Tyce is NOT trying to be Meat!!!
i said this in the begging and you "PanicLord" nailed it below......we did did try to keep it modern and we did put our own stamp on it, and this was designed for a younger crowd, and it is an attempt to introduce Jim's music to a new generation.......crazy as it sounds but i have had numerous questions from Men and Women who are in their early 20s asking "who wrote these songs".....remember a 24 year old man/woman will barely know Bat 2, never mind Bat 1 and Dead Ringer!!....so mission accomplished....

I was there at 54 Below when Tyce sang "For Crying Out Loud" directly to Jim in the audience..... Who has the balls to sing one of the greatest songs ever written directly to the man who wrote it, not even 10 ft away, and to pull it off like he did!!!! and bring tears of joy to Jim's face!!! it was not perfect, but then again its not meant to be perfect either, just like Hero, it was the raw emotion and the meaning behind the words that brought the venue to a standstill......its NOT all about the voice, in fact we may have had some better vocal takes on some of the album but catching the emotion is way more important than anything in Jim's music!!!! fyi the bonus CD was all ONE take One Evening when Tyce and Zak were fooling around behind a grand piano, we just let it roll and did not edit at all!!!! RAW!

KEEP BUYING music, keep sharing and pushing new artists and classic artists like Meat etc etc.....after all, have you heard the state of the current music out now!! deplorable crap......so if your picking on Tyce's voice, or any others remember the consequencies years down the road when they simply won't be ANY good music....

"Keep on Rocking" is Meat favorite quote.......not picking....but Rocking!!

Nick

Oh come off it, it's not like they're knocking you just because they didn't like some minor details of the album. People will either like it or not like it as they please, and no amount of (admittedly heartfelt) defense is going to change people's minds. Stop trying to defend every decision like a bloody shrinking violet every time someone says something that could be construed as less than complimentary, and let it speak for itself, wouldja please? Christ, some people are so sensitive...

You have to allow some people to not like his voice .. to me to just feels reedy and thready after Meat, and there is nothing of the passion Meat conveys, which is why I have refrained from comment until now. That it does absolutely nothing for me does not mean it is without merit or value .. just that I have for decades heard someone extraordinary deliver the songs in an extraordinary way. I don't expect that to be matched, and it is so far from that I find it holds no appeal. That Jim loves it, sobs over it, has nothing to do with how Meat fans may respond.

Meat and his vocals are often criticised mercilessly on this forum which is one dedicated to HIM, so surely it's predictable Tyce's album will receive some criticism here. And all those who have been "picking" have bothered to listen to it in order to offer criticism, which in itself has been relatively gentle imo.

I get the feelings and the sentiment behind this, really I do because I love different versions of Jim's songs. But - and this is the crux for me after hearing the album - there will always be good music and it will always for me be called Bat Out Of Hell, Bat 2 etc etc. Those albums to me won't be bettered and also won't go anywhere no matter how much modern drivel comes out. There will ALWAYS be good music because there HAS been good music. IF we stop listening to those OLD recordings, that's when it will die. There are some modern gems to, but for the rest of my life nothing is going to suddenly stop me listening to those old songs.

Jim's songs, and although I would love to think that somewhere in his private collections are untold hours of lost demos and all those tracks he named that would have been on Bat 3 if things had gone right, Jim isn't Springsteen when it comes to prolific writing - he and Meat didn't go through twenty unnecessary songs in each recording session which could then be stored away to be released later. Jim wrote what was needed for each album and that was pretty much it - anything else had another home to go to, but in the grand scheme I believe that is now it.

So, in the main, Jim's work is now historical and they are the versions that will live on - the same way no one says "Hey we need to keep Beethoven's music alive, let's get Miley Cyrus to do an album of it". The work of classic composers hasn't died out yet and they have been around a lot longer than these songs. They are passed from generation to generation as they are, they don't necessarily need to new versions. I listened to Meat from 5 years old because of my dad, my two kids listen to it because of me, in twenty years time their kids could be listening to it because of them.

That's the way music stays alive, you keep playing it. If you keep creating newer and newer versions, somewhere down the line those finding it won't be bothered to look back 60, 70 80 years to see where it came from or what else that guy wrote, they will just hear the new versions and never experience the originals as they were intended to be heard by the one person who knows better than anyone how they should sound. The same way people will look at the spectacle of Peter Jackson's King Kong with all it's modern tech, and many will never know the existence of a little 1933 move with some of the most technologically advanced stop motion animation of it's time.

There's always something magic, there's always something new...but there's just as much magic to be found in the old and sometimes you really can't beat it. We could record new versions of Thriller, Jailhouse Rock, Stairway To Heaven, Let It Be, Bohemian Rhapsody...but there would always be one version that would outlast all the others. It's the same reason why 1984 Ghostbusters will always be Ghostbusters. Sometimes the magic is in the past and it lives on because that's what real magic does.

I think this is quite subjective about "won't be ANY good music". There is always good music being made somewhere, film music, indie artists, some popular artists etc. In fact it is much easier to make good sounding music at home now. Easier than it has ever been. And other channels are out there which people can explore and find good music. Just turn on spotify and see the countless of moods / playlists etc to have some idea what exactly is out there, eclectic tastes, instrumentals etc....

Like him or not, Ed Sheeran has 16 songs in the UK top 40. Quite an accomplishment to be that popular at a certain time and I believe he writes his own songs. He does this pretty much without gimmicks. Other people like Little Mix, others like Meat Loaf and others still like Tyce Green. But the latter two don't really fall into the popular, massive download buying audience anymore. I think that era is over, but who knows that type of music might come back into the charts. It depends on what the radio plays, what the youth buys and what works well on TV or at festivals I guess.

The choice in music is larger than it has ever been. I think with that should come an acceptance that in the vast number of cases your audience will be small, rather than saying "there is no good music out there." I think that is the easy way out to avoid that acceptance and it is not really true....

And in addition to the valid points these other posters have raised...

You're posting about this project in a forum devoted to Meat Loaf. Some people are exceptions and have made that known, but the vast majority of people on this forum are only interested in Meat singing Jim's stuff. 'Tis what it is.

Are you really that shocked and stunned by the reception this album received on this site? Might want to brush up on how to gauge your audience.

(Sad part is, I bet he'll zero in more on what I had to say than on what the other replies had to say, if he comes back to read it and responds. Quel dommage.)

Ohh damn. I really didn't want to put my opinion in here until i saw this. As if, re-releasing old (maybe even succesful) music, automatically means good music. The Tyce album actually shows the oposite.

I listened to the album. Twice. To put it blank, this is not a good album.

There are many issues I have with the album (not Meat Loaf compared or related)

First of, Tyce voice sounds forced. Maybe he was holding back, maybe he couldn't find the right way to sing the songs, maybe he wanted to achieve something different. Whatever the reason, his singing sounds unnantural and at times (most of them) is unpleasant to listen to.

Secondly, the breathing space is mentioned earlier. Especially a song like Total Eclipse sounds rushed. Listening to it, I was wondering if the singer was late for the last train home.

Thirdly, The screamfest that is All coming back to me now. I wonder what you guys were thinking. The song is unnecersarly loud and Tyce's voice is all over the place but it sounds as if it's never where it should be. (this was the case with more songs but especially with this track it is almost unbarebal to listen to)

Fourth, The loud thing seems an issue. It seems that the lack of being able to add emotion to the songs is covered with loud singing. The loudness doesn't add anything to the songs except for being loud. As with my first point, it doesnt help Tyce bringing the songs in a believable manner.

In fact, if I listen to Tyce (on this album) he sounds like an 'X-factor / Country Got Talent' competetor who sings poppy but tries to add emotion. It falls flat and fails in it's meaning. I never, in none of the songs, believed Tyce, which, listening to some of the lyrics, is kind of a problem.

Finally I think the production team didn't help the artist on this album.

All in all I was very dissapointed by the performance and production of this album. I got a digital copy for free and should have trust myself when I said "don't listen to it. Tyce is not your cup of tea." I just didn't expect it to be this bad.

I know it is a very harsh reply, but I don't think Tyce is the one to keep JS' legacy up. And I don't think it's a good thing for JS' music if this is the way his music is being portrayed for the next generation.

But that is just my opinion. I still wish Tyce all the luck in the World. I still don't think he is the artist for me, and I hope Tyce will put his focus on a different range, because Steinman is clearly not his strong point. And that also goes for the production team.

I gave it a couple of plays mostly out of curiosity. I may as well throw in a few opinions as well.

Totally pedestrian. No passion at all. OK singer but nothing special. He over sings a lot.

He doesn't have an ounce of the feeling that Meat Loaf or even Bonnie Tyler would inject into the songs.

I compared the line "you turned her into a ghost but she'll be burning when the night is done" between Tyce and Loaf and it was night and day difference on emotion.

I know Tyce is singing the songs just as written (maybe the view of a gay man) but singing the Bonnie Tyler songs exactly as written was just dumb. On total eclipse the line "you'll always be the only boy" just does not fit. It stands there awkward as hell. Had he done "Ravishing" would he have done the line about wearing a dress?


Meat can be under par at times but he always got exactly what needed to be done and interpreted the song as opposed to shouting it. Tyce has not yet developed the same kind of song interpretation skills. Maybe he will.

To me it is just a decent singer doing rote vocals on classic songs. On the plus side the new arrangements are interesting, even if they don't always work they are trying .

I respect everyone and everyones opinion, if you could please tell me where you got a free digital copy from i would appreciate it..

The songs that work for me are, left in the dark, holding out for a hero, I'll kill you if you don't come back. All of these are decent versions.

I will say that it's just someone singing the songs, I don't think he owns Any of them the way meat or even bonnie can

I think there are a lot of disrespectful comments on here regarding Tyce. I think his vocals are great and on the whole I really enjoy the album.

There was talk of a UK tour....any news on dates, venues etc?

Yes there are uk dates in the works, still early, if we can make it happen it will be the end of the year, however i wont be talking about it on here as it will likely be the wrong venues, wrong seats, too expensive, too cheap, too loud, too quiet, took long and too much fun!!!! If anyone wants to know about it just friend me on facebook where we can be friends and i can control the madness!!
Fb Nickyjames

Just to stand up a tad for our clan here I don't think it's madness, from what I can see you've got both people who like it and people who don't and neither party has crossed any line, what I've read has been posted objectively and honestly.

Jeez, you should read what they write about Meat :D

I agree no one has crossed any lines...
I dread to think what was said about Meat and his last album, in fact i dont want to know!! Thats very sad to hear

I think this thread has been a lot of advertising that Tyce was releasing an album. Anyone who has read it has awareness of it. People are going to have reactions to it that might not be all glowing positives.

I've only listened to the first disc once - haven't listened to the acoustic songs yet - but overall, I like it. I think Tyce's voice gives it a modern edge with a hint of teenage/YA angst. Some of the songs are on the shouty side, but these remind me of more alternative rock/Green Day type of singing and if part of the purpose of the album is to draw a new generation of listeners into Jim's music, then this is one way to get them to listen.

Will the album be available in Spotify or Tidal? Its not now...

I saw that Tyce said on Twitter they did not pay enough to cover his rent. If he was more established I could see the point, but the younger audience being spoken of uses those services and could discover him. Right now over 90% of the listeners are hardcore Steinman fans. Not enough people of most any age buy CD's now, especially from unknown or lesser known artists.

I tend to stream before I buy now, if I like it I download it or buy the CD, though that wouldn't be an option for what the Tyce one would cost me.

streaming
 

Sorry but not for a while, we as the Tyce crew and label are strongly against streaming for a new artists, older artists have made their money several times over with Lps. Cassettes, then Cds etc etc, so its fine for them, most of these older artists have been paid 2/3 times over for the same product......if a new artist who is not on a major label streams then that artist barley gets a penny per stream, everyone has to pay bills, imagine splitting a penny with everyone who owns the album......it just would not happen and there would be no album.....if anyone thinks we are making bank on this they are truly mistaken, in fact for most of us involved this is a BILL each month and NOT income!!

We are on a small label with limited resources, so getting the CD in stores overseas is not easy, so its best to order from Broadwayrecords.com, however i get it with the shipping etc......so if ANYONE wants to buy this through ME directly i will ship it to ANYWHERE in the world for FREE, i think broadway are charging $20 for the double CD, so if anyone wants one PM me and i will work out the details......fyi i am not running off with your money lol, i have known Andy King for almost 30 years, we met at a Meat show in Harrogate, Lost Boys tour, yes I'm from the UK originally (stockport) and got out to LA many moons ago to play music!! i just want this music to be available as much as possible....

Nick

Hmm it is tempting to buy a CD :p if you ever manage to get some UK gigs, please come up north! Who is Andy King?

No idea ;)

Oh wait, yeah that's me.

Serioulsy?

I could tell you that I got a free amazon gift card. But the truth is that google is today's man's best friend.

Why so combative?

I just want to know if there is a link to an ilegal download to the music i spent a year making and crafting, and spending a crap load of money on, i know you dont like the album and thats fine, but thats not the point, you said you did a "google" search and you got it for free?

Oh it's not meant combative. But as a man from the music buisiness you should know how things go these days (years). Even Star Wars was already available in digital 1080p edition before they released the official digital version (not to mention the bluray itself in April). It's the internet area. It's not a question if it's leaked, but when. Tyce's CD didn't last a day I believe.

And to be frank, I always check it in the free digital world before I decide to buy myself a copy And I buy a lot, (mainly BluRay discs) but thankfully I can now see/hear if it's worth my money, taste-wise ;-)

I surely do know how it works trust me!!!, but just because others have loaded it for illegal free downloads or whatever does not mean i can't try to remedy the issue, and keep the few pennies we make in our pockets instead of a bootlegger......so what is the exact issue with revealing where you got this from? i googled and am pretty resourceful and did not find much, why not PM me the link where you got it so i can have it taken down? this way Jim can get his due royalties also.....

Nick

For the reason I mentioned earlier, I am not really interested in giving my source. In this case I decided not to buy the album. In other cases this source has me spending money for finding material there, that I wanted to own and bought. I know more people like me use that place for the same reasons.

Anyway, if you're not able to find it, maybe it means you have nothing to worry about.

And no, I'm not going to give anyone else here the link to my source. ;-)

So right, exactly what i was getting at, you stole the music of Broadway Records, Tyce, me and Zak the producer, and Jim Steinman for that matter, regardless if you liked it or not you stole it to save a couple dollars/euros to see if you liked it or not......congrats on ripping off a new artist...and likely many more

The fact is that more people today want to hear what they are potentially buying and as we say in the country Tyce Green is a "pig in a poke". Most people never heard of him, maybe they will someday but counting on people to just blindly buy his CD is probably unrealistic.

Whether or not that is technically "right" is an entirely other issue. I have heard songs playing in stores and bought the song, but there I had exposure to the song. Where do you get that with Tyce? It is basically saying I like Jim Steinman songs so I will just track down this relative unknown and buy what he is selling.

Things just don't work that way now because other ways are available if you know how to search. It used to be that you heard the song on the radio but that is very difficult for new artists now.

If I invest $20 in a CD and toss it in the bin or resell it on ebay because I don't like it I had to find an artist with almost zero promotion and buy on blind faith or I can just take a listen - just one listen and if I like it I buy it.

It is not like at least 90% of internet savvy people have not done this. It is just the way of the world now and expecting someone to track it down with no publicity and blindly fork over $20 is just not practical.

Legality is another thing, but the pragmatic way of the world is what it is. Unless someone can plead innocent to ever downloading it is a part of everyday life now - right or wrong.

So funny but we thought of this prior to release, and there have been samples online and guess what, samples of every song have been available at

http://www.broadwayrecords.com/cds/tyce-hero

You can listen to every song on the album and deterimne if you like it and buy it or not, So searching out illegal dowloand websites under the umbrella that you wanted to try the product first is a mute point when a simple seach for Broadway Records would have got you what you want....so then it was a choice to steal the enitre album, and not a "trial" because you did not want to waste your money.

A 30 second snippet of a Jim Steinman length song isn't that telling. I wanted to buy 2 tracks I thought had potential but I have Android devices so no itunes. I looked on Amazon but it was not there digitally. I even asked about it on here. I would have bought at least those 2 tracks had they been on a platform I can use.

Even Meat Loaf had BTWA out everywhere weeks before the physical CD came out. A lot of people listened to it online and said they sis not like the vocals and would not purchase it.

How many among us has never downloaded something we did not pay for? I'm not saying it is a good thing to do. Should I buy the CD now even though I mostly disliked it? Had I liked it I certainly would have purchased.

So now were going to hide behind a 30 sec snippet is not long enougth so we go out and steal? Funny....most people in the uk who bought the cd (legally) are just getting their copy now, they ordered and waited patiently....

I would not want anyone to buy it that does not like it, so the answer is no i dont think you should buy it if you dont like it..

Lets see how many people will openly admit to stealing Meats music?

samples vs "you can listen to every song on the album and determine if you like it and buy it or not".

i'm old school, analogue in a digital world, back in my day, i could go to a newsagents, and lift a magazine of the shelf and have a flick through, if i liked and was interested, i could buy it, if not back on the shelf it went.

as a car guy, i would want a full in depth test drive to get to know the product before i hand over hard earned cash, that might be influenced by product reviews and knowledge of the manufacturers previous models.

then we had songs on radio, and performances on tv, all great samples as such, to hook a listener.

but with a new performer to the market, i think it may be madness to rely on the tried and tested methods of 20 or 30 years ago, the ed sheerans and biebers of this world would have got nowhere without the exposure of the internet

and for the record, i haven't heard any of tyce's album

i don't do long posts, i do random drunk thoughts, and that post took a longgggggg time to piece together lol

CD stores used to have listening stations. Bookstores now are coffee shops where you can actually sit and read printed material offered for sale. If you buy a book it is practically a used book. It is what it is. I shouldn't have listened to it and I didn't keep it. Had I wanted to keep it I would have purchased it. I wanted to purchase 2 tracks as a legal sample but I don't have an Apple phone any more (see my earlier posts). I'm not sure how an unknown artist is going to ever be known today, I just won't buy anything by anyone I don't know and have not heard in the future.
Listening to it online was wrong.

*popcorn*

I'm with anotherday. It's devolved into a thread-length edition of

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...19/304/old.jpg

One thing that is odd, is that my CD of Hero, which I'm still enjoying by the way, won't play at all or even be recognised on my computer. Very odd as I want to rip the MP3s so I can play them in the car. Will try on my laptop but it's the first time it's ever happened...

apologies, madness was wrong. It's the usual frustration of trying to get new music and artists out there. Chicken and egg scenarios, how to build an audience and support. How to get the music heard. There's no simple formula

Just bought this.... really enjoying it. The arrangements are great. Tyce isn't trying to be Meat and really holds his own.

Congrats to Nick, Tyce and everyone else!

Me. Flash back to 2006 and the entire Bat 3 album was played on a special radio show before its release. Someone recorded it, shared it on YouTube and I downloaded it. When Hell In A Handbasket was released in Australia six months before anywhere else, I downloaded it again from YouTube. In both cases I still bought the album later.

But i kind of get the new artist thing. I heard Ivy Lavern on the new Rocky Horror heap of sh... She didn't really sing my style of music but i found her album on YouTube so i listened to it...or stole it if you want. I listened to it twice and decided I actually liked a lot of it so tracked it down and bought it. If I hadn't been able to do it or didn't like it, I probably wouldn't have bought it so it swings both ways. If i hadn't been able to listen to it, i wouldn't have bought it. If i listened to it and didn't like it, i wouldn't have bought it. If I had been forced to buy it to hear it and didn't like it there's that wonderful distance selling clause where you can pretty much return anything to Amazon so i would have returned it. So, unless I liked it when i heard it, however i heard it, they wouldn't have gotten a sale.

In a way though, for years our library has had CDs that you can take out the same as books. I haven't taken any out for years, but I used to frequently take out CDs and rip them to my Ipod. Is that any different? I don't really think my local library will be giving out royalties based on the number of times an album is checked out so it's just the same thing.

Thanks for "buying" this Seb!!! Keeping music alive!!!!!
See you on the uk tour!!!

Nick

Hero is obviously done with enthusiasm for SteinMeatmusic.
One of its masterminds comes here, explains details and all we do is mostly tear him apart?!

C`mon, lets give Nick a break. I sympasize with all his statements - as much as I sympasize with the acoustic CD.
HOFAH, EIP, IGLHFBOU and FCOL are on heavy rotation for days now. Even more respect to Tyce and Zakk if thats all done in just one take!
The regular CD and Tyce using the high register less so. But probably impossible to touch "our" holy SteinMeat blueprints and keep us satisfied anyhow.

Even if its "just" covers and Jims ("creative consultant") influence might have been overexposed, its a brave achievement.
Thanks Nick and everyone involved! Good luck with spreading Jims genius your way. And thanks for coming here and share insides despite its less than rewarding.

The voice of reason! Thanks so much Michael!!! Love what you had to say, and this project has been a emotional drain on finances and life, for lots of reasons, then i come hear where everyone loves Stein meat and boom i get kicked in the teeth repeatadly for calling people out who have clearly stolen mine and Jims music, blows my mind.... but then your support!!! Thanks so much

The acoustic cd was 100% one take no edits, you can even hear the odd mistake that we did not fix, you can hear the rattle of a snare drum on AFL...you can here some pitch issues, but none of that matters, the essence of the performances was what mattered....and captured forever.......still to be confirmend is an acosutic private show from NYC April 5th...basisally disc 2 live....anyone who friends me will be able to see it live as i will stream in fb ..negative and over crical people i will just delete....find me....

There are about 20 invites for any local NYC folk who want to come for free so long as you have purchased a cd or download..there is a seat and invite for Jim also...

Facebook
Nickyjames

thanks for all the info Nicky

Live Stream April 5th from NYC @7pm
 

https://www.concertwindow.com/160696-tyce

Only $5

Nick

When is Tyce - Surfs Up coming out Nick?

Again, not true. pm for further info. :oops:

Have you seen Bat out of Hell the Musical?

Clearly hasn't. I saw it for the 3rd time the other week and Strat actually kissed Tink on the lips.

There's an article in Gaytimes magazine with Andrew Polec the main strat and he even mentions there's gay love in the musical.

In one ensemble point there are definitely same sex pairs dancing.

Yes that as well^

defiantly on the list, and likely next :), along with a few other gems.....what else would anyone like redone or reinvented by Tyce, me and Zak....

nicky

Okay, this one's a bit out of left field, but hear me out: "Stark Raving Love" is the perfect choice for a redo/reinvention. Justification, ahoy!

• It wasn't favored with the most memorable production or arrangement the first time around (aside from the prominent melodic motif that was reused in the original version of "Hero"... okay, and Davey Johnstone's multiple guitar finale)
• As a consequence, it doesn't get nearly as much attention as other Jim songs
• The two points above, combined, would theoretically allow one to really put their own stamp on it without having to fight an uphill battle against people's fond memories of the original song or a particular arrangement of it

In fact, "Stark Raving Love" is so underrated that many Jim fans don't even consider it a favorite. It's the perfect opportunity to tilt perceptions of the song on their heads and really turn the beat around. (Hehe... see why I did there? You like it, don't lie.)

Probably unlikely to record Stark if quite a bit of the focus was on Holding Out For a Hero so recently I think.

Love hearing that somewhat slowed down riff though on the original even if Stark sounds a bit underdeveloped (the re-use of the Lost Boys/Golden Girls bit, is a bit meh). The guitar duel at the end on the original is awesome however. Probably would have preferred this on Bat 3 or on Braver instead of some of the songs we did get such as "What if God could talk" / "Cry Over Me" / "Who needs the young".
In fact Stark would have made a killer opening tune on Braver in comparison to the bizarre circus thing we got I think. Perhaps remove the fade out at the end and tag on a proper ending then lead on into GATW. Since some of the rest of the stuff on Braver was from the original ideas before they got recycled "Turn around", there was no reason to avoid that song I think. (Other than not being able to say "this is the first song Jim wrote and was going to be on Bat" - I still don't think it matters when a song sounds so polarising. Stark would have suited the Crook guitar production too I reckon.

Certainly more interesting for anyone recording that song than the more overly popular songs at this stage.

If memory serves, though, their arrangement of "Hero" didn't even use that riff. Granted, I haven't listened to Tyce's in a while (CD player is in the shop), but I'm pretty sure the arrangement made a point of being very different from the original. Hell, going back to the Over the Top (later Dream Engine) arrangement used at early gigs, the riff only existed as a piano intro, and then the rest of the song dispensed with it completely. Seems to me if they didn't include the riff, they can tackle the song it originated in with no trouble.

On that we can agree for sure!

We did use the riff once close to the begining, it is buried in the mix a little more than i would have liked but it is there, we put it in as a "nod" to the original..

Nick

Any news on the UK tour Nick?

we are looking at a short east coast US tour Sept/Oct this year and the UK for April/May 2018

My CD arrived two days ago. I was (and still is) very happy with that. :-) The first (studio) CD was made big impression to me. It's fantastic! :cool:

Songs that made biggest impression to me:
1. Holding Out For A Hero - wow :cool: ...it's more rockier than Bonnie Tyler's version. In other words: Bonnie did very good job, but Tyce version is stellar; it's so good that it should be big hit in Tyce concerts;
5. Total Eclipse Of The Heart - very good cover (and, perhaps, better than original);
6. It's All Coming Back To Me Now - superb job done by Tyce! :up:
7. I'm Gonna Love Her For Both Of Us - I was shocked when I hear this. Why? I think that melody is better than in Meat's version.
8. Objects In The Rear View Mirror May Appear Closer Than They Are - another fantastic interpretation done by Tyce (and crew) :cool:.

Second (acoustic) CD is also very good! :-) I think that all songs (their interpretation) are superb, and "For Crying Out Loud" is the king among them. :-)


PS. I will buy another Tyce CD, because he proved that he is fantastic singer. :-)

The more I listen to this album the more I have just fallen in love with it and can't wait to hear more.

Probably wishful thinking on my part, but any chance that Nashville or Atlanta makes that US tour. I would drive to one or both honestly.

Wow what a review, this makes it all worth it, such amazing compliments!!!!
Reallly wish we could make it to Poland for some shows!! You never know!!!!
If you are ever in the USA please let us know!!!!!

more!!? How did you know hahh!!! We will be in Nashville July to record 3 more!!

There is a strong chance of a Nashville show, i know the booker was working on it, the main producer of Hero Zak lives is Nash, so we may actually rehearse there prior
Confirmed dates, orhers to follow
Nyc sept 27
Phili sept 28
Cleveland sep 29
Chicago sep 30

Excellent news on both accounts. I'm about 90 minutes from Nashville so I'm all over that show if it comes to fruition

I think this opinion is really bad for business and doesn't let you look good.It might prevent some potential buyers from buying anything from you. I stopped buying magazines where the clerk told me in a harsh tone I couldn't browse all the magazines and then decide to buy them.
I remember Lars Ulrich once said he doesn't need a fan who copies his music. That guy who copies it is still a fan. He is a potential customer, a potential ticket buyer and a potential merch buyer. Maybe he would never buy the music if he never had the chance to listen to the whole thing. And what does one steal who doesn't take anything from you. Do you have less of it now? The term stealing is very polemic in this context. I have bought a lot of music I have copied before. I always had a specific budget for music. I would say I have bought more since copying has become so easy. But I never would have had the budget to buy everything.
I still can become a fan and go to a concert, still generate income for the musicians I like without having bought an album. Copying is actually free promotion!
I certainly prefer streaming services for this purpose, there is still some money going directly to the artists, that's a plus. But I think we have to start embracing the idea that anyone listening to the music can be a worthy fan.
Of course leaking before release is still piracy.
It is ripping you off the chance to determine the right moment to publish the music.

The music was downloaded and passed around the day it was released..totally wrong!! And yes we artist do get paid from streaming, i have lots of other music out there and my retirement check just came in for this month and I made $8!!! So when someone openly steals my art I will call them out in it...well carry on (if you do) downloading music so the artist does not get paid, then when you hear yourself in years to come say “wow so much garbage music out there” you will then understand why...all the musicians will be gone....and no organic music will be left...carry on mark my words.

Respectfully i 100% disagree with every word you said.

Well you keep on using the term "steal", and that term is totally wrong. Is walking into a museum and taking one of the pictures the same thing as taking a photograph? You should embrace the idea that there are actually people who buy records after listening to a ripped copy. I have done so many times. Those are records I wouldn't have bought otherwise. In the past, passing on tapes was a way to promote music to friends, who later often bought records and went to shows. Consider that not everyone who gets his hands on a copy would have bought the record in the first place. But it is a way to spread the word about your art.
Now talking the way you do could actually put some people off. And it paints a picture of a desperate salesman who would put up higher price tags to compensate for a decline in sales. Just my two cents.

Here is the definition of "Steal"..
"to take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it"

We did not give anyone the legal right to take our material without paying, and the other persons property (mine) was taken without any payment to the label.......so thats why i use and will continue to use the word steal...

I am open to a proper discussion, but please don't be disrespectful buy calling me a desperate salesman.....in fact i have offered free albums out of my pocket to some people on here and other sites who could not afford it....our sales are doing fine....I am a musician and illegal downloads takes food off my table...this whole notion of...well let me download it first then i will buy it is complete nonsense, you may go out and buy it after, but generally that is not what people do...they may say so....but really come on...its a cop out and an easy thing to say to save face...obv not you....what set me off here on this site is that someone openly bragged about illegally downloading and spreading the album all over the web the day it was released.

I know Meat feels the same way....how do i know? well he told me.....I met him in the thanks to my friend Bob Kulick, he invited to the dressing room where he said he would have Meat sign my albums, i was young at the time so really had no clue what Meat was really talking about when he refused to sign a bootleg album i had.....I went on to become a musician and now totally understand why he would not sign it...

Anyway....do you have there HERO album? CD or Download?

NJ

Wrong!

Download, yes. Spreading, no.
And I had nothing about the album to bragg about, anyway.

Please keep your facts straight :cool:

So lets get one thing straight....this has nothing to do with me trying to sell an album, or bragging about it....everyone has their own opinion and i welcome it all and all positive and negative reviews, if you don't like it thats fine...but not the point.....this discussion is about downloading an album without paying the artist....so lets see, you said above you downloaded the album, lets talk about where you got it from, if you got it from Amazon, iTunes or whatever show me the receipt and i will refund you as you don't like it....no problem there....if you got it from another source where was that? probably another person uploaded it somewhere and SPREAD it around and maybe you got a free copy...lets see where you got it from please so we can have a proper discussion.

Actually, my comment is about you saying:

I did not brag neither did I spread. But I did download it. It's a classic 'two out of three'. The fact that I obtained this for free, doesn't mean I shared it with others.

As for you calling it 'stealing' is fine by me. I have no problem with you calling it that.

If you mean that others spread this. Sure they did. In fact, I can't imagine any product, available by download, that isn't spread for free. Movies, music, software. Good luck preventing the internet from doing so. This is what you have to deal with. Obviously it's not going away, like it or not. It's the current standard of society. That doesn't mean that it is right, but it does mean you, yes YOU need to make an extra effort for people to BUY it.

And I have a huge collection of BluRay movies and music. And I dare to say that over 75% of my legal collection, I downloaded them for free, before I bought them. And despite what you think, it is not uncommon these days. With all the crap that is coming out, it is impossible to buy everything. And listening to a 30 second clip isn't the same as listening the album at the record store, as I just to do, ages ago. So I am happy with these free srevices. It makes things easier for me to put the money I have with the product I want to spend it on. I am happy to use and benefit from this opportunity. BTW it also means that I threw the Tyce album in my PC trash bin, months ago. In fact, I have only a few free downloads on my PC, and those are waiting to be replaced by 'the real thing'. Either because they are out of stock/no longer available or because I haven't had the time or money to buy them right now.

I admire that. I wouldn't go too public with that though, from a business point of view. But cudos for that.

As for my source, again, if you can't find it, why worry. It probbably means a lot of people can't. Besides it changes nothing to the discussion.

I have no intention of ever trying prevent the internet and downloads etc, that would be insane.....I suppose my mistake is thinking that this site would have some fans who may support and not steal the album.......here is the problem with what your doing.......

Anyone ever wonder why Tribute Bands are so huge? at least here in LA they are huge!!!!.....well its because most music out there is substandard so people automatically go to proven music like Zep and The Beatles, proper music as we may call it, Musicians know they can't make money and survive from releasing albums due to illegal downloading so they hit the tribute scene....Back in the day you bought the CD or Vinyl and helped support the artist etc and they continued to write new music, we are only tackling two cups of coffee here to support new music by the way.......why would anyone write new music or redo old music when its just taken away from them for free?...so they either hit up a tribute band to pay the bills (me I'm in a Joe Cocker Tribute) or they end up getting job out of music......the elite bands still make money from back catalogs etc but new want to be artist are backed in a corner where there only outlet is to try is Idol, the Voice and other BS shows....which are ALL fixed by the way.....so bottom line YOU and others like you are contributing to the downfall of music.......15 years ago i had 40 guitar students, now i have 3........these youngsters are smart by not getting into the biz......so where will good music come from?........these are facts, i live and breath music every day and its super sad when i come to site like this looking for support for a very similar artist who has been backed publicly by jim himself...Did you also download the BOH musical CD? just curious..or how about Braver by Meat, did you also download that.....and if so did you like it enough to go out a purchase it?

NJ

Musical, no. Althought I heard songs and they sound too much 'Grease' to me. So, although I had the oportunity, I didn't download as I can't be bothered by it.

Braver, YES. I have 4 copies (3x CD and 1x Vinyl) but I downloaded that one first. To be fair, I would have bought it either way, eventhough I don't find it that interesting to listen to.

As I said, I buy quite a lot, if not, the download ends up in my trash bin. Unless I like it but it's impossible to obtain the product (out of stock and such). Sorry man, Tyce CD, you already know how I graded it. It ended up in the trash bin of my PC. If I had liked it, I would have bought it. I just didn't like it. And if I did not have the oportunity to listen to it in full first, I wouldn't have bought it anyway. Those are the terms I demand from my spending habbits. It's a luxery I have and make use of.

As for the entire 'Music business ends' rant, I disagree. Although times have changed since the internet, I prefer artists that have Heart for their music, not for THE SUCCESS. THAT is the Voice, Got Talent etc. mentallity. Even today, some of the finest bands/artists got their fame by performing live in clubs (or even doing original stuff on YouTube) before they got the succes of becoming selling artists. Besides, I think real quality prevails anyway. Look at the succes of Adele. Adele created three original songs for a class project. She later posted the tracks along with numerous others on her MySpace profile. The tracks went viral and eventually got to executives from XL recordings.

I guess there are 2 ways to look at music. You can see it as an art, or as a business. If you agree that it is a form of art, just like a good painting/painter, there are only a few out of a million that make money. That is keepng the music business alive, because, downloading or no downloadin, quality prevails.

I actually got Braver when it came out, although I was looking for a leak, I would have bought it anyway. I had preordered it earlier and so I had it in the mail on the day of release. I do not have the Tyce album yet, but I haven't downloaded it either. I actually haven't heard it yet. But it might be a record I'd like to own.

Concerning the term 'steal', making a duplicate is still not 'taking', giving it back would be useless. So that definition kind of misses the point.

Anyway, I unterstand why you think that way. I did not want to offend you using the 'desperate salesman' comparison. I just wanted to say, be nice to potential customers, or it is even less probable they will buy your product.

I totaly (as you know) diagree with downloading leaks etc....I think only a musician may understand 100%.....having said all that you dont have the Tyce album, well if you pay the shipping i will send you a signed copy on me...just inbox me, or you can wait until jan/feb 2018 when Warner Bros release the streaming rights worldwide for all mediums..

NJ