O_O

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
John 8:32

I hope he continues to post. I'm enjoying the read

As am I.

Incidentally, the blogging bloke (who may have posted here before and interacted with me in a rather friendly familiar fashion, just FYI) would like anyone interested in the story to know that they can write to him via the address on his website if they want to ask him about anything that they've read recently. He doesn't want to get drawn into it online and have threads and the like locked, pulled down, etc., really not his thing, but right now he is more than happy to entertain questions from people about what they've read.

A little positive interaction can make all the difference. ;)

Wild story, intrigued to here more

While we wait to hear more...

Does anyone know where to find Patti singing The Future?

I love her rendition.

Maybe Patti could get a job on Alex Jones' Info Wars stuff, singing about conspiracy theories at the rate she's going with her tweets.
(on a serious note I don't agree with anybody getting silenced for writing/saying such things, CNN is just as crazy as Alex Jones at times!)

This I can help with. Check your PM.

Find the first podcast here.
We talk about Jim.
Patti talks about her upcoming projects, an album, and new music.

No, I heard YOU talk about her upcoming projects, an album and new music. :lol:

It was really interesting, thanks.

Jim's email to Patti sounded very funny! I can just imagine him typing that. :lol::lol::lol:

To be fair as pretty as that other singer was, I was thinking the sort of same thing at the time. Still don't think that duet sounds right at all.
Meat was stellar at RAH in 2006 - and experiencing it literally from the front just in front of his feet was absolutely memorable - but the politics of that album, and things going on were so weird and it sounded Meat regretted the rush to do it without Jim afterwards. I'm so, so glad they ended their working relationship on a more collaborative note.

It is nice to know Jim & Patti had contact. Good to hear Jim really liked Patti!

Ah, ya got me.

Glad you enjoyed it :up:

Very much enjoyed that!

Great podcast enjoyed it!

Looking forward to the next installments when hopefully we will get to hear about Patti's work with Meat.

Will Patti be able to tell her whole truth or are proceedings restraining her?

You'll have to tune in to find out ;)

Out of curiosity do you have a list of Jim's 16 number ones?

Cheers

After her tweet, this thread should be removed

What the heck is wrong with her? All those tweets …?! :? :lurk:
I once was a huge fan of hers. But it was long ago and it was far away, and it was so much better than it is today … ;)
To say it in her words: ovaries and out!
There's nothing more to say. Actually, there would be a lot more to say, but it's not worth it.

I knew Patti was bitter but what she wrote is like she tried to find a bar even lower than humanely possibly ever existed at a time of grief.

Congratulations to her I guess. She found that even lower bar.

What an embarrassment to the fans who tried to help her.

:roll:

I lost a lot of respect for Patti today, those tweets were awful and shameful, especially towards Meat’s wife at this time. Disgusted beyond belief. I hope in time her bitterness heals and she will realize what she posted was wrong!!!

I don’t believe the thread should be removed as Patti was part of The Neverland Express, no matter what went on between her and Meat. But I am very disappointed in her actions today!!!

Did it get worse than the F U tweet? As if that wasn’t bad enough

I personally have no respect for Patti and those tweets.. she needs to get over it

It is a big shame... that a talented woman like Patti is such a vindictive person, i guess i if she had put all her energy in her career instead of a vendetta, she could have been a major solo star by now.
I will be honest i certainly don't agree with her actions but it doesn't prevent me from listenen to the songs she and Meat Loaf performed.

She definitely didn't talk this way back in 2014. She would have been booted off the BBC Leicester radio show I helped her get onto I'm sure. In fact I would have been prepared to personally apologise to the radio host if she had had this potty mouth that she has now.
In contrast she seemed to negotiate any negativity at that time very diplomatically with her words. Kudos. :!:

Any amount of talent can never overcome being nasty, selfish and downright hurtful regardless of the excuse you may have.

But even worse things have happened to talented artists in the past. Look at Phil Spector becoming a murderer.

There is no reason to change your listening or watching habits. ;)

I can only assume that Patti's descend into conspiracy theories is evidence of some wider issue that she thinks the whole world is against her despite the attempts of fans to really help make a difference to her career. Eventually she chucked contact with them away as she thought Mark Zuckerberg was after her or something.

Well, keep spouting nastiness and burning bridges and eventually that whole world is against you thing will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It perhaps already has...

It’s super sad, they were such a strong team. I sincerely hope she finds some peace and happiness. I’ve been around long enough now to have seen a few people get ‘stuck’ at a certain period of time and really struggle to move on… it is absolutely possible to do so but will take work on her part. She is a very talented lady whose gift appear almost effortless, particularly compared to Meat who (in his own words) made everything look really hard. I jumped onto her Twitter in the sincere hope to see something like ‘we had our differences but I’m going to really miss you’. Again, deeply sad for both the words and her mental state. There is ALWAYS a positive way forward and I hope she finds it. Luke

Well...
This whole thing has just become sad.

She's tweeted again

Leave it now Pat

She's coming up with some true horseshit if you ask me and I refuse to stoop to her level.

"I have truth on my side so I can be as nasty as I want"

Like taking a wheelchair away from a disabled person and saying "Look without that you can't move about."

But it's the truth, right?

:roll:

I can't quite believe her tweets. I really thought she would either give a brief goodbye or just nothing at all but I am gobsmacked that she stooped so low.

I'm not seeing another Tweet from her

She's posted some quote about truth and lies etc...

The thing is, her and meat were phenomenal together...and I actually feel quite sad that she has not either kept quiet or just posted a tick box "I'm so sad...." tweet

It's also quite a shame to see that she's had 20 replies...it just shows how far she's fallen

In my view, I could absolutely detest someone who had treated me terribly...I can't imagine how / why I would ever go after a person grieving. If she posted something in 6 months then I'd not be so shocked or disappointed.

id suggest we lock this. bring less attention to it

Why should more censorship always be the solution?

imo not the time for it

Does anyone know why she's aimed that vile tweet at Meats grieving Widow?

I don't think this is about censorship but rather to put our energy and time into the people/person who rightfully deserve so and Patti at the moment is not one of them.

I don't think any censorship here will do any favours, if you don't want to see it personally then don't come into this thread.

BeCaUsE nO dOuBt sHe HaS tRuTh On HeR sIde.

:roll:

The Kitchen Sink just posted a "funny" parody video. Giving the Podcast's close association with Patti her vague accusations and her recent tweets, I can only read this as being a disguised insult.
On the off chance that I'm getting this wrong, I hope ThatWriterGuy will clarify it. All the trivia about Jim was really interesting. And I considered myself until very recently a huge Patti Russo fan. But this is not the time for being vague or funny.
I realize I'm probably just feeding a troll right now. But, most Patti fans are Meat Loaf fans too. If you've got unsolved business with Meat and you're angry that you cannot hurt him anymore and now want to get at (some of) his fans? Well congratulations! I'm not going to buy Patti's Album if it was full of unreleased Steinman songs.

If it's Hale and Pace - Meat Loaf, ITV have blocked it.

Patti who ????

Posted on behalf of Nick:

"You are."

:up:

Looking through the tweet responses and someone wishing Patti death over Meat and Patti admitting she was suicidal 7 years ago I think we need to take a step back here guys and let's not "cling on every word..." Patti says that you may disagree with or read too much into what we don't understand and take everything as a negative.

I disagree with what Patti posted and like I said above it seemed wayyy out of character to me.
It did upset me for sure.

But let's not beat Patti down or pretend she doesn't exist, when we only have little knowledge of what is going on.

We already lost one of our beloved idols. No matter what others write, nothing should change our love and respect for them completely. A family of friends should be strong enough to let every one make mistakes (as long as they are not the Phil Spector type of mistakes! :-P)

I can only assume Patti IS actually hurting inside even if she doesn't show it now. Her anger is most likely clouding her judgement of some of her tweets she posted.
At least I am willing to give her that benefit of the doubt now that my own anger has subsided somewhat.

In this day of cancel culture let's not fan the flames of trying to cancel people that we actually love (or have loved) when the media are ABSOLUTELY loving this extreme approach from fans and celebrities. Don't fall for their trap.

We can tell Patti what she posted is wrong or disrespectful but endlessly hurting or damaging her reputation is not right.

Thanks.

Patti seems to be the kind of person that thinks she can have both - Her own opinion (which she can) and her own facts (which is not how the truth works)

The fact that she is fighting her demons and seems to be in a dark place does not give her carte blanche to insult and hurt people on social media without being held accountable for it.

Absolutely true and people rightfully said she was talking bollocks with the Deborah tweet especially.

But saying things like "I think you should be six feet under instead." just crosses a line also.
And I worry it might just get worse and people start to (look to) mis-interpret things with each subsequent tweet.
I don't want to be associated with cancelling people or wishing them dead.

That's all I'm saying.

True. Those insults are equally vile and have no place anywhere.

Ok.

:up:

So now I guess I will buy her Album if it is full of unreleased Steinman songs. ;)

Still I think Patti needs an intervention, and she is doing a lot of damage to her career. If her suicidal thoughts were because of Meat firing her, well, she could no longer work for him now either. But this way she had 7 years to work on her own career, which didn't go as hoped, but, still better than if she would have started after Braver...
I really cannot see how Meat is the true cause of her problems. She had a lot of opportunities through him. And she is in a business, where only few people make it, and only very very few people make it big.

Therein lies your dilemma.

Look, I'm not being funny here but you and Patti seem to have continuously over the past while hinted at things and dropped tidbits here and there and it's wearing thin.

My primary stance with anything like this is to believe victims, if someone comes out and says something then absolutely give them benefit of the doubt and investigate where it should be investigated. Two sides to a story, but where there is smoke there is fire and all that.

Now this is a touchy subject because Meat has tragically passed on, and he can't defend himself anymore and I don't want to see his family brought into anything either. We all probably know Meat wouldn't have been a saint in his lengthy career, we've all seen how he could act on here, we have heard stories about his temper or seen his social media posts. I don't doubt Patti had a hard time during her career with him and I sympathise with it.

But I'm finding this act of dropping hints/tidbits and vagueries, almost like a "Listen on and all shall be revealed" to lure people in to be a bit disrespectful. If there is something to say, it should have been said by now, not strung out as it has been.

---

Also as far as the insults towards Patti go, wishing death on people is 100% never acceptable and no one should have to face that.

It’s a shame either way because now there’s only one side to the two sided story.
Not that I think we would have gotten the other side anyway.

But in terms of her grief, well, I get it to a degree, I worked in casting while being an actor and now when I look back and the more often I look back the more angry I get at injustices served upon me. But there’s nothing I can do about it now aside from try and move on via a different route.
Character assassinations and decorum and timing go a long way in my book and I just think the act itself isn’t the best, doing it in public is lacking in decorum and the timing is bloody awful.

If you have a grievance call out by all means but don’t wait till they’re out the door or on the way out to start your kicking.

I’m not trying to paint the reason we all visit this site as an angel or Patti as a devil.
But there was a time and a place for this score to be settled and now it never will be, it will just be someone having the last laugh and what does that achieve?

We must have been typing at the same time. But you articulated it better than me. But that’s what I’m getting at too.

Shall we combine posts? Lol

This may come as a surprise, but Patti and I are not joined at the hip. Her views are her views. My views are my views. They don't always align.

The (obvious) intention behind Kitchen Sink (at least, within its initial season) was to give Patti a platform on which to speak her mind about the events that she has faced throughout her career as a world class vocalist. Blow by blow, piece by piece, just as it happened in real life.

We only got up to 1994.

Let that 'sink' in.

The trauma that she has suffered can't be explained in a soundbite, and Patti has no intention of becoming a professional 'victim'. Any questions about this should be directed towards Patti, and not me, as I wouldn't want to speak on her behalf. It is, as always, on her own terms.

For my part, I tried to balance the above out with entertainment, insight, and a glimpse into the archives that fans would not otherwise have been aware of.

Sadly, that ship has now sailed.

There will be no more Kitchen Sink in its current form (the Meat and Jim aspect was intended to run for ten episodes before expansion into other areas).

Not a fan of what we're doing? Answer's simple.

Stop listening.

The idea wasn't, and never has been, to 'out' anyone. I would've thought that this was obvious by all of the tip-toeing around we have had to do (to lengths you would not believe) in order to preserve reputations (let this sink in, also), avoid potential lawsuits, and keep the peace. When I met Patti she wasn't in a good place. Speaking about it, via this vehicle, has helped. You may not see that, but you see less than 10% of real life (for instance, the common conception that Meat and Jim 'loved each other' is far from the truth. It's a shame, but it's simply untrue unless it happened post stroke #9, whereupon I wasn't around and wasn't involved).

I'm more than happy for people on this forum to ask questions. To contest what they hear. It's the only healthy way to live. Question everything. But do it with intelligence. Read between the lines, and realize why, sometimes, those lines exist in the first place. Patti isn't going to lie to you. I'm certainly not going to lie to you. Kitchen Sink is a non profit, no personal gain platform. Sadly, this leg of the journey has ended prematurely. Losing Jim, and with Meat's sudden passing, it can't be any other way.

On this we can agree.

:up:

When Jim died I was very happy about The Kitchen Sink Episode. I did listen and felt welcome at this virtual fire side chat.
When it went on about auditioning and touring I also listened and I spent some time last year letting all that sink in. It didn't doubt it. I had always wondered why Patti was "looking for a boyfriend in Australia" in these weird unexpected subtitles on the Melbourne Symphony DVD. Appears to be a little inside joke from Meat that's true meaning has now become clear. If my boss did that to me, I'd feel hurt. No doubt. Especially since that was almost ten years after the original event.
But, if it was bad to the extend that "Meat was the true cause of her problems", Patti could have left.
When Meat died, and Pattie tweeted her tweets I looked close at what the Kitchen Sink might do. I was irritated, because I was no longer sure what her intentions are and where this was going. As a fan, listening to all this I feel like I am called out to be a judge on something I have no insight in, cannot veriefy any facts. And I hate being in this position. The only facts I had was, Pattie holds a grudge against Meat's wife, and she was fired via Email... And Meat is dead. And I am a fan since the mid 90ies. And I want to enjoy some concert videos and listening to Meat's music. And in doing so Patti is everywhere. And I cannot stop thinking about what was sayed on The Kitchen Sink. So I waited, would would they do? And then the Kitchen Sink uploaded a parody video. And at that point it became very clear what was going on. You want attention through this. You couldn't release a sincere video stating that you would pause for six month and then continue saying what you need to say. By all means do what you must. No, a parody video right after he died. You wanted to draw attention to yourselves at the most unapropriate of times. Because you're plan of revealing bits of information and innuendos here and there was spoiled through Meat's sudden death.

The above quote is again, full of innuendos. Do you think anyone who follows Meat and Jim for some time actually thinks Meat and Jim were best friends? Well, one thing they did was keeping private grudges out of the public eye (Except for the lawsuit), because for their fans their lifes and careers are intertwined. There is no Meat without Jim, and there is no Jim without Meat.

Well, it'd be my guess, you were eventually trying to turn this into a book. You probably still are. Maybe at some point Patti would have gone to the press with accusations and you would have followed up with the inside story.
What I read out of Patti insulting Meat's wife after he died is:
Meat married the wrong women and she now tried to damange the reputation of the man who rejected her. I see Meat and Patti had real chemistry in all the performances that I can see. Whether I'm right or wrong you ask me to "read between the lines" that's what I read. Sincerely, this is the message that I get.
That's what I now think about Patti because of your Podcast.

I wish Patti the best. I hope she gets real therapy. Doing therapy in the public might not be the wisest thing to do. It incentivises holding that grudge, not letting it go. But then you wouldn't get the details, right? ;)

While I'm not picking sides here, it is important to note that sandmage joined in June 2021, and has only posted three times on this forum -- all of them in this thread and all of them to cast a negative light on Patti. Granted, she doesn't need their help, but be aware of what I've just said, as it certainly smells fishy to me.

I can see that I'm up for a real intellectual game of chess with this one.

Let's simplify.

Strawman arguments, and ad hominem attacks (see also: 'making things up'), say more about you than they do about anyone else.

You're better than this.

Be better.

To address several issues:

1. If Patti wanted to 'expose Meat' via the media for an enormous sum of money, it would have been done already. Years ago. There was plenty of opportunity. Last week Patti was contacted by, more or less, 30 reporters and offered a live spot on BBC breakfast news. She graciously declined.

2. After the news broke officially of Meat's passing, Kitchen Sink lit a candle and played the last few moments of music that both Meat and Jim released together in true collaboration. The Hale and Pace video was uploaded on request of the original channel. We had used a small clip in the past. After ten years active the video was claimed under ITV copyright in the UK. The original channel asked if we would reupload for various territories. Since several members of the NLE particularly like this clip, I agreed, and took the clip down within an hour as copyright was indeed claimed in several territories. End of saga.

3. Patti and I have been friends for a couple of years. We talk on the phone most every day. I knew everything there was to know about her story before the concept of Kitchen Sink ever existed, and she knew every detail of mine. No matter how much you want there to be, there is no personal gain and you will not contrive a situation whereupon you pit one party against another and sow division. Honestly, it's as transparent as ... a transparent thing.

4. The rest, sadly, is just bad fan fiction.

So, are you saying that, Patti's story with regard to her time with Meat is now done, and anything else you put out will be more on what Patti is up to, or along the lines of your (I thought rather good) Queen video?

To be honest I think you're left with really three choices,

1. End Patti's tale of her time with Meat now, and move on to something else.

2. Continue the tale, but stop before the events Patti has alluded to, as, it does seem she did have a long period with time where there were few, if any problems, she could reminisce about.

or 3. Continue as planned and risk a backlash as there's now no way to hear Meats side (Tho i doubt he'd have told it anyway even if he hadn't passed, given he's not said anything about it since the "story broke" (for want of a better phrase)

Even after Patti started her "attack" on meat on twitter, he has remained nothing but complimentary about her, I remember a radio interview he gave where he described her as a fantastic co singer, and that was after Patti had started tweeting.

I get the impression from the word go, Meat wasn't going to get drawn into a war of words with Patti,

When Patti started posting on the other thread on here, I did manage to exchange a few messages with her, while I was trying to safisfy myself that the poster on here was indeed Patti, and she did come across as someone who was trying to shed a few demons .

So what are the plans for the Kitchen Sink going forward? (If you don't mind me asking)

We had decided, some time ago (hence no uploads) that it would be option 1. Given the recent news, it remains as option 1.

As for Meat's response, or lack thereof, what you see in public is not what goes on in private. Tired of the nature of this, Patti replied publicly. Again, if you want to follow this one up, please follow up with Patti and not me :up:

Glad that you enjoyed the Queen episode. We have some interesting guests coming up, should the tide turn that way.

I must be honest, given recent events I think you've made the right decision (even if it was a decision made some time ago)

I do realise that public and private are two very different things, and can understand why Patti continued to tweet, in the hope (my impression) Meat's say something.

I hope Patti can find some kind of peace now, and move on, (I know that's sumit I should post to Patti, but for all I know she browses this thread, after all her user profile on here is still active)

I look forward to seeing what you have lined up on the kitchen sink, As a queen fan, I found your Queen episode enjoyable and informative, so will look forward to future shows, when time allows for you and Patti to get together.

Glad you enjoyed it :up:

If schedules align we may have our good friend Rosalie Cunningham on next.

If you're not aware of Rosie's music, check her out.

She's extremely talented.

Sorry to but into your sort of convo together but I agree with this very much.

The Patti I saw live in 2014 deserved a more substantial touring career from that point onwards. I REALLY thought she was just excellent and I enjoyed each show a lot (think I saw 4 in total on that tour).
It was also fun just seeing her perform the likes of I'd Lie For You solo. A lot of stuff just worked well and there was this sort of energy and freshness that deserved a full audience like we saw at the small O2 venue but was absent elsewhere.
However I think she needed to continue with that kind of quality experienced band I think and really build upon that and get those type of people involved in making some albums.

Bruce Springsteen said it best himself when he was always doing his fun long winded band introductions about "you can't get there by yourself."
I very much agree with that and I think this is why Meat Loaf was so excellent live. In fact Bruce himself I thought was incredibly boring to watch solo at Royal Albert Hall (I've been very fortunate to have seen all my musical heroes at RAH). Sure he was good but just not the fun party filled atmosphere he put on display elsewhere. EVEN when it was not his regular E Street band (the Seeger Session show at Wembley Arena in 2006 was magnificent in fact).

Some of my reactions to Patti's tweeting I can see in this very thread actually seem a bit harsh now that I am looking back myself. But so were her tweets at times I guess. They just came across as hand grenades as I pointed out.

In the end I want(ed) the best for Patti because when you can see an artist that can give you that euphoric feel during a live show you just want that to continue forever and the internet wars just become a bit of an annoyance to witness, EVEN if there is a very good reason for the tweets and posts.

I wish Patti the best and hope she will still release some great music and maybe I will still catch her live again some time.
It would be nice for sure.

Some context: the 2014 tour was done simply for the fun of it, without the involvement of management, etc. Since that time, Patti has been involved in a number of projects (including cutting a track that was considered for a recent Bond film, performing with Roger Taylor, etc), but in latter years felt little drive to both record and perform music, and, instead, concentrated on other areas of life. Music took a backseat for a while (despite a multitude of frankly amazing offers).

Talking about strawman...

1. Never said for money. And, that was what last year, I genuinly feared would happen.

2. How was I supposed to know that?

Meat and Jim carefully kept their private lifes private. A month after Jim died, you break with inside stories that would never gotten out if he was alive.
I needed to know what kind of person you are. I've been a bit provocative, I know. But, now I know, thank you.

What I said above about what my guess would be? This is how it looks to me. If it is true, Patti would even have my sympathy for it, had she not started her "attacks" on Meat. But it is what I read between the lines. You are the one with all the facts. I know nothing, and never claimed to know. You give clues and innuendos and literally say one should read between the lines. And now you claim I made this up?

I hope that you keep your promise and respect Meat and Jim's private life in the future.

As for me having never contributed to this forum? The last time I wanted to start was before Braver was released. Meat presented his track listing. Someone posted links to all the original demos and ridiculed Meat's ability to sing. Meat eploded in the forum, and for my timezone the next day collapsed on stage.
I simply decided, that in this forum, I had nothing to add.

In most of my messages, I wished Patti well. And I continue to do so!
That negative light, dear ThatWriterGuy, was your making.

You're certainly on a (t)roll today.

When I advocated for reading between the lines, I did so with the caveat of approaching those areas from an intelligent point of view based on the evidence available to you, left by the people who were there and involved at the time (and those who have spoken, at length, to the individuals involved at said time). You skipped that part and instead made up your own story. Well done. Have a cracker.

As for promises - I make no such promises to you about any of the above. I am free to discuss what I like, as I like, as it happened as pertains to the truth. The relevance here is that I see no merit in discussing this beyond what I have already discussed and disclosed thus far. This should be obvious. See point one again.

The editor in me offers this advice: You contradict yourself, openly, within your very first point above.

Bravo.

Feel free to point out the 'innuendos' within my original reply with regards to either Jim or Meat. As far as I'm aware, there are none, and as I must be aware in order to form innuendo, well, you can see where this is going.

So here we are. I'm here, telling you the truth as it is. You're here, insisting that there's some kind of conspiracy, that Patti needs a psychiatrist and had fallen in love with Meat Loaf, and that I'm out for personal gain.

I have only two responses to this:

1. You're a better fiction writer than I.

2. With all the love in the world: you're the one who needs the psychiatrist.

Make sure it's someone good.

;) :up:

Jesus, I don't think there's a conspiracy. You are a writer. Writers are in the business of writing. You befriend Patti. You collect stories. Eventually you probably are going to write a book. Well we'll see. It is what usually happens when a celebrity dies, and of course you're free to do that.

I can't wrap my head aroung why Patti would lash out at Meat's wife as her first public reaction. I conclude, her grudge is not really with Meat but with her. Whatever that might mean. I only tell you, this is how it looks to me. Originating from Patti directing curses at Meat's wife. She should not have done that. Everything else she did, I have no problem with. I onyl feared this might lead to a #metoo situation. Not necessarily for money. Please take also in account, that last year, I probably didn't read all you wrote in this forum and based this fear on limited information.

So you made no promises. So, we'll see about that book I think you will eventually write.

Patti needing a psychiatrist? It would be better than continuing to tweet, would it? Lot's of people have psychiatrists. You sayed I failed to see how Meat was the real source of her problems. Maybe she needs to talk about that with someone other than the internet.

In conclusion:

Please stop strawmanning me. It makes you appear to be a highly manipulative person.

And since when is speculating about Meat, Jim or Patti wrong on this forum? It's literally what this forum is there for. Over on Jim's site, someone asks if Jim might have been into BDSM.
Nobody here knows the facts. Only you do. You say you and Petti would never lie to us. However, we all know that what Meat and Jim sayed wasn't always true. Not best friends. Only 10%... Nudge nudge, wind wink, say now more...

Yet I need a psychiatrist for saying how things appear to me. :D

I don't doubt you know the truth. I just needed to know what kind of person you are.

:up:

Ah, the old "I know you are so what am I" routine.

To address your points:

Writers write. Bakers bake. Candlestick makers ... you get the idea. It's amusing, but only because it's so willfully simplistic in its generalization. I'm a fiction writer, and other than things that directly relate to my life, I'm not interested in writing about the lives of others. Nor will I ever be. I can say this with as close to a 100 percent certainty as any reasonable person can give.

"I can't wrap my head around why Patti would lash out at Meat's wife".

Once again, therein lies your dilemma.

You could have simply asked. Instead, you acted like you were owed an explanation.

I've got news for you on that score: you're not.

This relates to all of your posts, both now and in the future.

Let's wrap up, because I'm busy and I imagine that you are too:

I've indulged you here because I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. However, I owe you nothing, and this particular brand of nothing is inclusive of both explanation and justifications. If you believe that this somehow entitles you to an endless back and forth based on the things that you have either blatantly made up, or erroneously inferred above, you are sadly, and seriously, mistaken.

So farewell, anonymous Internet friend.

I like the way you (t)roll.

Nick. If you speak to her most days can you ask her to come sing at my birthday party please.
Trying to twist her arm. 😉

Goodbye to you, too.
Thank you for the insights you gave me. All the best to you and Patti.

This thread needs a rest.