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heat
28 Feb 2004, 11:01
Just curious to know if PM's are really private after all?

Or does the administrastion have the ability to read what we write if they so choose?

If this is the case, then should we be worried about what we are saying in a supposedly private area?


Can i have some clarification on this please?

Heli
28 Feb 2004, 11:07
I was thinking the same thing only the other day!! So i would also like to know!! :wink:

Deb
28 Feb 2004, 11:27
Sure I read R say somewhere a while back, that if need be he can see them, or something like that, but don't quote me on it lol

original sin
28 Feb 2004, 11:56
no idea! would hope so becuase I have given address and phone numbers in that manner

ROSIE
28 Feb 2004, 12:48
s..t I hope so :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:



R :oops: sie

libertine
28 Feb 2004, 13:37
Had the same question myself after the new rule including a phrase about not discussing certain things via PM was posted... 8O

original sin
28 Feb 2004, 14:08
s..t I hope so :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:



R :oops: sie

:lmao:
I know what you mean Rosie - In many ways I have confided some personal stuff to people I consider friends here.

sherrie87
28 Feb 2004, 14:32
As I recall, R said that he has the ability to read any PMs as part of the software program that runs the board but that he has never had need to. Is that a proper summation of what was said R.?

Sherrie

AndyK
28 Feb 2004, 14:40
From my understanding of the PHP software that this board runs on that is the case Sherrie. In the same way that the admin people at your ISP could read any message that is sat in your inbox before you download it to your PC.

R.
28 Feb 2004, 15:20
The messageboad (and since October) the website is database driven. That means, all content is retrieved from a database and displayed through a template system. This is why you can change the layout of the website for you.

Having said that, if you have physical access to the database, you are able to read everything which is stored in there. I have physical access to the database and I know the access passwords. I can backup and restore the database. Hence I can access private messages too.

The forum software however, has no admin interface for private messages. You can check this at phpbb.com or just ask some forum members who are running a phpbb themselves. I cannot see PMs with just a few mouse clicks. I have to go through the backup and restore process and then manually query the restored database.

In a nutshell, I can access them if there would be a need for it, but this is not a 5 minute and 2 mouse-clicks job.

And fyi, this is practially the same with your emails stored in your providers mailserver. They could read it if there would be a need for that.

Hope that answers the questions.

Edit: Spelling. Do we need a spellchecker here? :roll:

ROSIE
28 Feb 2004, 15:24
Phew :) thanks R. I can tell my lawyer he won't be needed :lol: :lol: and more importantly my age is still a state secret :lol: :lol: :lol:

R :lol: sie

AndyK
28 Feb 2004, 15:33
Phew :) thanks R. I can tell my lawyer he won't be needed :lol: :lol: and more importantly my age is still a state secret :lol: :lol: :lol:

R :lol: sie

No it's not Rosie..... You're Barely 17 aren't you? ;)

ROSIE
28 Feb 2004, 15:35
True you wonderful man :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: and yes barely dressed :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


R :lol: sie

R.
28 Feb 2004, 15:37
True you wonderful man :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: and yes barely dressed :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


R :lol: sie
:pics: :))

heat
28 Feb 2004, 15:38
In a nutshell, I can access them if there would be a need for it, but this is not a 5 minute and 2 mouse-clicks job.


So, basically, what you're saying is that you don't normally read peoples private PM's at all, have i got that right?

Could you also define for me what you mean by 'If there was a need for it'? How could you tell if there was a need for a PM to be read?

Also, if you DO read a private PM, do you tell the person that you have seen it? And waht happens if you see something you don't like? Do you act on it?

ROSIE
28 Feb 2004, 15:39
You've got be kidding :lol: :lol: :lol: it's freezing :lol: :lol:


R :lol: sie

AndyK
28 Feb 2004, 15:41
Turn the heating up then Rosie........... ;)

ROSIE
28 Feb 2004, 15:44
No I'll just put my clothes back on :lol: :lol: :lol:

R :lol: sie

LostSoul
28 Feb 2004, 15:46
True you wonderful man :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: and yes barely dressed :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


R :lol: sie
:pics: :))
We all saw your red knickers at Wembley... someone must have taken pics! 8O ......... :roll: ......... :))


Patricia

ROSIE
28 Feb 2004, 15:49
Yes dear they did but inthe interests of public order they were never posted :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


R :lol: sie

AndyK
28 Feb 2004, 15:53
No I'll just put my clothes back on :lol: :lol: :lol:

R :lol: sie

spoilsport :P

ROSIE
28 Feb 2004, 15:56
Andy I think you need to moderate yourself :lol: :lol: go on I won't look :oops: :oops: honest :oops: :oops:

R :oops: sie

heat
28 Feb 2004, 15:56
Sorry to rain on your parade here guys, but any chance my question can be answered???

AndyK
28 Feb 2004, 15:59
ONly R can really answer with respect to what he means Heat, but the way I read it is that he says that he can if need be look at PM's but he doesn't.

I presume the "need" would be based on a specific complaint of abuse or harassment, but agin only R has the real answer and I wouldn't dream of putting words right into his mouth ;)

R.
28 Feb 2004, 16:03
So, basically, what you're saying is that you don't normally read peoples private PM's at all, have i got that right?
Yes.

Could you also define for me what you mean by 'If there was a need for it'? How could you tell if there was a need for a PM to be read?
If fanclub management tells me so.

Also, if you DO read a private PM, do you tell the person that you have seen it? And waht happens if you see something you don't like? Do you act on it?
Yes and yes.

Heli
28 Feb 2004, 16:04
I presume the "need" would be based on a specific complaint of abuse or harassment, but agin only R has the real answer and I wouldn't dream of putting words right into his mouth ;)

Yes you would Andy :wtf:

heat
28 Feb 2004, 16:23
Also, if you DO read a private PM, do you tell the person that you have seen it? And waht happens if you see something you don't like? Do you act on it?
Yes and yes.

But wouldn't you have had to read the PM before deciding you don't like it? Otherwise, you would'nt know about it, right?

And surely, by reading someones private PM you are leaving yourself wide open to finding something you don't really wanna read - surely that's the whole point of PM's - to say something to someone in private that you don't wish to say on the public forums - and if that's the case, how can you act on it if you weren't really meant to see it in the first place? Wouldn't that be just like evesdropping on a private conversation, then being pissed off because you heard something that you didn't like? How can you then justify acting upon it?

original sin
28 Feb 2004, 16:43
As this appears to be a question and answer session I'm here with my figures crossed that asking a question on the forum in this instance is not in breach of the global rules recently set :?
And the recent posts have raised a question in my mind.

If fanclub management tells me so.

To me there seems to be a missing link here. Haveing been the victim of abusive PM's here I can see a need to have safety net. Howver surely this action would result from a complain being made by a member receiving a PM that has given them cause for concern or has felt that a line has been crossed in what is being written to them.

I can quite understand that if someone recieved a PM that caused such concern they should bring it to the site management and an agreement be made to take whatever steps necessary to confirm what has happened.
Anything other than this would just be a conversation between two people, neither having issue with that discussion. right?

R.
28 Feb 2004, 17:31
But wouldn't you have had to read the PM before deciding you don't like it? Otherwise, you would'nt know about it, right?
Depends, I'd say. At least my PMs have a subject line that sums up the contents.

And surely, by reading someones private PM you are leaving yourself wide open to finding something you don't really wanna read - surely that's the whole point of PM's - to say something to someone in private that you don't wish to say on the public forums - and if that's the case, how can you act on it if you weren't really meant to see it in the first place? Wouldn't that be just like evesdropping on a private conversation, then being pissed off because you heard something that you didn't like? How can you then justify acting upon it?
I don't see why I would need any justification.
Why don't you simply ask the question you really want to ask?

heat
28 Feb 2004, 17:53
Why don't you simply ask the question you really want to ask?


Fair enough. Have you or your admin bods ever read my Private Messages?

R.
28 Feb 2004, 18:02
Honestly - I have never read any of your private messages, except those you have sent to me. 8)

heat
28 Feb 2004, 18:12
Honestly - I have never read any of your private messages, except those you have sent to me. 8)


Guess i'll just hafta take your word for that, won't i?

I'd like to think that you would respect my privacy, and the privacy of other forum users, but i'm left feeling sightly uneasy at the thought that you could pick and choose what PM's you read. Should i use PM's in the future,i think i'll definately have to exercise a little thought and control over what i say in them...just in case....

R.
28 Feb 2004, 18:28
Guess i'll just hafta take your word for that, won't i?
Yes.

I'd like to think that you would respect my privacy, and the privacy of other forum users, but i'm left feeling sightly uneasy at the thought that you could pick and choose what PM's you read. Should i use PM's in the future,i think i'll definately have to exercise a little thought and control over what i say in them...just in case....

As I have said before, everything stored somewhere remotely could possibly be seen by someone who has access to that storage unit.
Our site isn't an exeption here. Posting PMs and deleting them after delivery sounds like a good policy to me.

mariella
28 Feb 2004, 18:30
I am 'learning all the time'...interesting...Thank You! :lol:

xxx

Mariella

ROSIE
28 Feb 2004, 18:32
Off to do some deleting :lol: :lol: :lol:

R :lol: sie

mariella
28 Feb 2004, 18:35
...me too :lmao:

dottie
28 Feb 2004, 19:52
s..t I hope so :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:



R :oops: sie

Nor me! :lol:

dottie
28 Feb 2004, 19:55
Yes dear they did but inthe interests of public order they were never posted :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


R :lol: sie

I took some :lol: didn't I Rosie, and you of me :lol: the terrible twins, I digress sorry :oops:

ROSIE
28 Feb 2004, 19:58
Destroy them now :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Do you take bribes :lol: :lol: of course you do how much 8) 8)


R 8) sie

jcmoorehead
28 Feb 2004, 21:17
He can view PMs if he wanted too but depending on how he uses the database i.e if its SQL and the appropriate softwares on the server then its fairly simple to view them, if not then its a complicated process. Either way its time consuming and not worth the effort unless it is serious.

Dave
29 Feb 2004, 18:57
The forum software however, has no admin interface for private messages. You can check this at phpbb.com or just ask some forum members who are running a phpbb themselves.

I will back R on this. I am now running PHPBBS on my site, and it took damned near three days to get a shoutbox running. I know I have much better things to do with my time than to flip back and forth between the admin panel and my domain cpanel to "spy" on what the users of my forums are doing. It would take quite a bit of working to accomplish this task.

original sin
29 Feb 2004, 19:03
The forum software however, has no admin interface for private messages. You can check this at phpbb.com or just ask some forum members who are running a phpbb themselves.

I will back R on this. I am now running PHPBBS on my site, and it took damned near three days to get a shoutbox running. I know I have much better things to do with my time than to flip back and forth between the admin panel and my domain cpanel to "spy" on what the users of my forums are doing. It would take quite a bit of working to accomplish this task.

didn't doubt the content for a moment - and would expect it to be used, as I said earlier, only if there was a specific complaint from someone who had received questionable PM's.

heat
29 Feb 2004, 19:05
The forum software however, has no admin interface for private messages. You can check this at phpbb.com or just ask some forum members who are running a phpbb themselves.

I will back R on this. I am now running PHPBBS on my site, and it took damned near three days to get a shoutbox running. I know I have much better things to do with my time than to flip back and forth between the admin panel and my domain cpanel to "spy" on what the users of my forums are doing. It would take quite a bit of working to accomplish this task.

You used the word 'SPY'. Not me.


And it seems that there are people willing to put in the time and legwork to read what people are writing in thier private messages. So much for privacy...

Deb
29 Feb 2004, 19:07
Like who? i'm confused yet again lol

Dave
29 Feb 2004, 19:18
You used the word 'SPY'. Not me.

I was the one who was not inhibited to use the word, this is correct.


And it seems that there are people willing to put in the time and legwork to read what people are writing in thier private messages. So much for privacy...

My job is about 45% privacy security - there is NOTHING private on the Internet. Anyone can find out anything about anyone. If someone wants to know something, they can find it out.

It goes back to the old saying, "if you are afraid of some one seeing something, maybe you should not put it on paper."

heat
29 Feb 2004, 19:32
David - I understand that in this day and age anyone can find out anythign about anyone, should they go looking, but in my opinion, if something is advertised as private, as Private Messages are, and does not involve any complaint by either author or recipient, then there is absolutely no need to be watching what you're writing.

Unless of course you wish to live in '1984'.


I know i'm not the only one that isn't keen on the idea that my Private Messages could well be read - no one, don't care who you are, likes the idea that their privacy has been invaded. I think at the end of the day it all boils down to trust.

AndyK
29 Feb 2004, 19:38
Trust is the key word here heat,

you trust the post office when you post a letter to not open it

you trust your bank to look after your money (or in my case overdraft)

you trust the staff your ISP not to rewad your personal emails before you download them

I think R made it pretty clear that he won't read PMs unless he has a valid reason to.

Is there a specific reason behind this continuous questioning on this issue?

Dave
29 Feb 2004, 19:52
Is there a specific reason behind this continuous questioning on this issue?

I would say it would be a case of paranoia, or a case of control issues. Either way, I think maybe Meat Loaf has a good philosophy with regard to this, if you don't like it, go away. I fully trust R with safty and security issues more than just about anyone on the Internet - I would not want anyone else in charge. Don't let them Tear You Down R! We know you are only doing what is good, right, and in the best interest of everyone inolved.

As for the 1984 statement, sorry but we do live in 1984, like it or not. Did you know there was a short lived UN regulation that required all cell phone calls placed anywhere in the world to be recorded and stored? There was such an outcry about this that this policy only had about a nine day life. Big Brother is watching you - accept and move on.

original sin
29 Feb 2004, 20:03
As for the 1984 statement, sorry but we do live in 1984, like it or not. Did you know there was a short lived UN regulation that required all cell phone calls placed anywhere in the world to be recorded and stored? There was such an outcry about this that this policy only had about a nine day life. Big Brother is watching you - accept and move on.

As they say every point coin has two sides and funny now that the UN are jumping up and down at the possiblitity that they have been bugged.

But this is slightly off track - Heat asked a question - R has replied - others have passed comment. That Heat or anyone else should then pass comment on what others are saying is that so unreasonable?

I said earlier I can see there might be a need for such action in the case of abusive, threatening or anything that feels one party feeling uncomfortable, I would hope that every assistance would be offered in such circumstances. [/quote]

AndyK
29 Feb 2004, 20:08
No Sin, it's not unreasonable, it may just be me and the day I've had at work that's causing me to read more into the messages than are really there...... (trust me the people I deal with at work regarding security breaches are people you really don't want to get on the wrong side of :evil:)

ANdy

Guppie
29 Feb 2004, 20:10
My board is a YaBBSE, which is a bit different from a phpbb board, but not much.
YaBBSE works with PHP/sql database. The database is situated on my domain, and through control panel I have acces to the entire database, so also to PM's.
(I have little knowledge of both php and mysql, just enough to backup an d stuff and run the forum)

Now, another admin of the forum has no acces to the PM's. Only the domain-owner, that has acces to control panel (plesk) where the database is.

The P stands for private, so my members trust me not to read them, and I don't.
R. says he doesn't either, and of course I believe that. Without a doubt.

R.
29 Feb 2004, 22:14
I have removed the last messages from this topic.
Start over again, and stay away from making this discussion a flamewar.
I have enough trouble to keep the server up and running right now and I don't need this.
So, if you have nothing useful to contribute to this particular topic, just swallow your anger and shut up.