Apparent leaked private messages from this forum to Patti Russo

[nightinr]

Patti has released private forum messages on twitter. This long message around why Patti departed the band appears to have been sent by Meat Loaf to a forum member in this group.

If this message is genuine it appears we may have a rat in the forum.

It is a detailed message so presumably it is somebody Meat Loaf had built up some sort of rappore with and presumably trusted. He also signed off "Love ya" again demonstrating he presmably knew this person.

No wonder Meat no longer posts in this forum if his private messages get leaked to people who hold a grudge against him.

[letsgotoofar]

I don't know that it's necessarily a grudge. People here love Patti and Meat in equal measure; it may have just been somebody shocked, understandably so, who was like, "Is this true??" I honestly can't tell you if I wouldn't have done the same.

[AndrewG]

It's probably in our nature to be curious about what really happened etc and why but at the same time I find it somewhat sad that Patti never got over this and perhaps never will.

Ie. she talks about this far more than for example her excellent London show in 2014 which happened afterwards.

It's a bit of a shame.

She perhaps sees her 2014 UK tour as a bit of a failure but I thought it was really, really good stuff.
Shame things didn't grow from there.

The never meet your heroes quote often rings true. It's awesome to have the opportunity to meet Meat and Patti or be able to talk to them through messages etc (many of us here have done so) but I'm not so sure it really helps them or us in the long term. You are going to catch them in a certain moment and probably always agree with whatever they say rather than be a real friend who can be a bit more objective and perhaps encourage each of them to resolve a conflict. That's what I'm guessing anyway.

Twitter probably also doesn't help anyone. Nor did the whole lockdown - make all these performers lose their work or worse their jobs thing to delay a (mostly harmless) virus from spreading. I'm sure Patti missed out on some more shows because of that carry on, which again is a shame.

[letsgotoofar]

More thoughts while I have them:

On top of what I said from the source's perspective (disclaimer: not the source, just considering an explanation that doesn't involve an axe to grind), let's look at it from hers. If this is what Meat has been saying to people about the circumstances of her firing, this is the kind of thing that can cost people their livelihood. Patti's already approaching her sixties, and any woman in any unduly youth-obsessed industry can tell you how hard it is for them to stay afloat past a certain age; add talk about bad behavior to the mix, which would turn off most people in a position to employ her, and maybe you have the answer to why you don't see her doing more. If it's not true, and his gossip about her allegedly faking illness to go do something else has actively prevented her getting work (I don't need to tell you that "old, dishonest, and unreliable" is three strikes you're out at this old ballgame), she's well within her rights to contest that.

[AndrewG]

More thoughts while I have them:

On top of what I said from the source's perspective (disclaimer: not the source, just considering an explanation that doesn't involve an axe to grind), let's look at it from hers. If this is what Meat has been saying to people about the circumstances of her firing, this is the kind of thing that can cost people their livelihood. Patti's already approaching her sixties, and any woman in any unduly youth-obsessed industry can tell you how hard it is for them to stay afloat past a certain age; add talk about bad behavior to the mix, which would turn off most people in a position to employ her, and maybe you have the answer to why you don't see her doing more. If it's not true, and his gossip has actively prevented her getting work, she's well within her rights to contest that.

Another angle is: I don't want to employ that person because of the amount of carry on Twitter afterwards if things don't work out, regardless of the reasons. :shrug:

[letsgotoofar]

Okay, but bear in mind that she did not hit Twitter with any of this until seven years after the fact. That's a whole lot of intervening time with not much going on or able to get very far off the ground, with Meat being able to tell this story (true or untrue) to other people. Twitter is a factor now, I'll grant you that, but it wasn't all this time, and she still wasn't getting anywhere. Some of that may well have just been the type of natural inertia I describe as something one deals with as a woman of a certain age in this industry, but how much can we attribute to Meat painting her in this fashion?

[AndrewG]

Okay, but bear in mind that she did not hit Twitter with any of this until seven years after the fact. That's a whole lot of intervening time with not much going on or able to get very far off the ground, with Meat being able to tell this story (true or untrue) to other people. Twitter is a factor now, I'll grant you that, but it wasn't all this time, and she still wasn't getting anywhere. Some of that may well have just been the type of natural inertia I describe as something one deals with as a woman of a certain age in this industry, but how much can we attribute to Meat painting her in this fashion?

True,
wasn't she working with someone on something big soon or was I imagining that from the kitchen sink stuff?

I'd rather hear about that if that is still happening I hope.

[nightinr]

Patti appears to be building up to this "big reveal" on Twitter for a few years.

If I'm honest it all seems a bit trivial.
A bit like when on Kitchen Sink Patti revealed that Meat banned her boyfriend touring with them in 1993 - shock horror!

[eltmatt]

^My thoughts exactly, after years of waiting to hear how she was badly done to, it turns out to be just a bit trivial. I can understand why Meat was concerned at the time if she was doing gigs with Cher and so close to the gigs with him.

[nightinr]

Everything that has come out so far has been very trivial....

Meat is the boss. When you are in effect the employee for nearly 25 years there is bound to be disagreements. But nothing that has come to light so far has seen to be nothing out of the ordinary.

I love Patti...she was without doubt the strongest leading woman of Meat's career. Maybe both Meat and Patti can accept blame and Patti rejoin Neverland Express for the final tour next year?

[mikeloaf]

Sadly, there is no such thing as a private message, and with platforms such as Twitter, there are options to share what was written as private to a large, unintended audience. When a famous person writes personal information in a private correspondence, they should be fully aware it has the potential to be made public. It isn't right, but it happens, all too often.

[letsgotoofar]

Maybe both Meat and Patti can accept blame and Patti rejoin Neverland Express for the final tour next year?

I wouldn't count on it.

[ThatWriterGuy]

wasn't she working with someone on something ... I'd rather hear about that if that is still happening I hope.

She was, and it is :up:

You'll hear about it via Kitchen Sink.

First, there's some housekeeping to do and a story to tell.

[ThatWriterGuy]

No wonder Meat no longer posts in this forum if his private messages get leaked to people who hold a grudge against him.

For clarity.

Meat stopped posting on this forum quite some years ago.

Here are the reasons why:

1. Criticism over his voice and performance.

2. FB nets a significantly wider audience.

[Justin Bieber]

These PMs are very old, he had only just started the Las Vagus run. Patti is the one making them public. She also wrote a very long description criticizing ML at the same time. To me it seems as Patti didn’t sign an exclusivity to ML it was too risky to hold onto her. It is also well known that band members were not allowed to take girl friends on tour or even say they had one back in those days. Part of the acting in Paradise is having a argument and ripping off the wig, it is in videos. There is improvising often with yelling.

[nightinr]

It does feel like Patti needs to tell her full side of the story asap, rather than releasing snippets every couple of months.

[jmfreeman]

I know the answer will be "wait and see", but I can't help feeling there isn't much more of a story to tell, and that this is just a lot of sour grapes and the bitterness that comes from them. Time to move on.

[jmfreeman]

You haven't heard the half of this story.
Wrong on all counts.
Wish I could you tell you something more positive - I'm just the messenger.

Then maybe it's time to deliver the message rather than mentioning all the things you could tell but don't, and continually promising revelations that don't appear?

[ThatWriterGuy]

Then maybe it's time to deliver the message rather than mentioning all the things you could tell but don't, and continually promising revelations that don't appear?

I promised nothing, with no such statement RE 'revelations'.

There is a timeline with Kitchen Sink.

We're sticking to the timeline.

Whatever you decide, I'm more than happy for you to stick around.

As for me - signing off.

[roomster]

I have seen so many extremely strange, harsh, nutty and rude postings on this site from the big man himself (posts which was very quickly modified or removed by the mods) that I can say that I sadly have no trouble believing thats there more to the story regarding Meat and Patti...

[jmfreeman]

RE Kitchen Sink.

You haven't heard the half of it yet...
We haven't got there. Right now, we're showing you events as they occurred at the time. These events may or may not grow, and sooner or later you may realize that a pattern is emerging....
Remember - whatever you hear, whatever you see happen - nothing can stop you from enjoying the music.

Sounds pretty revelatory to me.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Sounds pretty revelatory to me.

Then you got what you came for :up:

[nightinr]

Probably work better if The Kitchen Sink episodes were a lot more frequent i.e weekly rather than once every few months.

Patti seems to have time to post on twitter late at night, but doesn't seem to have chance to talk on a frequent basis...

[ThatWriterGuy]

It takes approximately 5 days to complete one episode.

I don't have that kind of time on my hands, sadly.

[letsgotoofar]

I have seen so many extremely strange, harsh, nutty and rude postings on this site from the big man himself (posts which was very quickly modified or removed by the mods) that I can say that I sadly have no trouble believing thats there more to the story regarding Meat and Patti...

roomster pretty much says it all. Frankly I'm surprised that, given the choice between the two, everybody's jumping on him being in the right 100% in this situation.

[AndrewG]

roomster pretty much says it all. Frankly I'm surprised that, given the choice between the two, everybody's jumping on him being in the right 100% in this situation.

I can see things from both sides. Most of us know Meat's venting and focusing on negative words in amongst 1000 nice comments quite well. It has bothered me over the years and I was at the receiving end of that as well. Not nice.

In person I'd imagine things get more heated, sure.

I can believe the abuse that Patti mentions. I had a longish chat with her during her 2014 tour.

It's a double edge sword. She seemed heartbroken to be fired but also revealing a lot of crap she had to endure since then.

Was/Is it best for her to continue to be a member of the band in that situation?
I think it's really hard for an outsider to judge.

Thus the question does become, what does she want to get out of revealing these messages? I'm not sure. Maybe it's venting also. Or trying to convince people not to look at things with rose tinted glasses.

I think the problem is the negativity perhaps gets more associated with Patti this way than with Meat himself, since Meat isn't even on Twitter anymore or responding regardless.

At the time in 2014 I really thought it was awesome to have seen Patti being able to spread her wings a bit and perform 2 hour shows.
She really was excellent. Also interesting to note is that Meat actually sent out a word of support for people to go see her, but it was very late during the tour.
The Meat Loaf Las Vegas stuff really didn't interest me. I don't like the constant retelling of the same stories. I know 99% of the audience is probably new at every show but still, I just don't like that approach at all.
Regardless, I never travelled beyond the UK and The Netherlands to see Meat so 2013 was the last time I saw him and that was thankfully WITH Patti.

It's really a shame Patti solo touring the UK didn't become more of a permanent thing.

In the absence of Meat touring here, I just think she could have filled that void to a certain extent quite well.

:-(

Perhaps with the lack of new things going on (like I said, the pandemic measurements forced this upon many people and especially entertainers) one is bound to look back more.

But say a yearly new album from Patti and some shows here and there? Even if it's lowkey.
I would have said "Let's have it!"

[nightinr]

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned Kasim may have also been subjected to some detrimental treatment. Does anybody have any info on this and his "sudden" departure from the band?

[ajf33]

Not sure what to make of the tweet bout her boss asking her mum if she was horny yet, after siting on his lap.

[AndrewG]

Not sure what to make of the tweet bout her boss asking her mum if she was horny yet, after siting on his lap.

Who knows. It sounds like there might be some sort of Stockholm syndrome or accepting things whilst the party is still going on and not when it's over type of scenario going on I guess. Maybe thus the processing of what happened only gets done afterwards and is maybe more difficult to deal with?

Patti seems a lovely person going by the times I had the privilege to meet her. But this stuff in the open doesn't necessarily help her I think.

Look at how quickly people turned on and ignored Rose McGowan when the politics didn't suit. It seems victims of abuse can be used in what can be regarded as more psychological abuse afterwards I reckon through being used in certain people's agendas. "We will believe you and use you as spokesperson as long it suits our agenda but once it does not bye bye". Pretty dark.

I'm not saying she should shut up, but maybe Twitter isn't the right place. She could easily attract a bunch of looneys who might want to get something out of her. (There was a hell of lot of looneytune nonsense going on over there in 2014, I'm surprised she thinks it's a better platform than Facebook which I believe she isn't using anymore).

I wouldn't be surprised if this got scooped up by some outlet soon.

[jmfreeman]

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned Kasim may have also been subjected to some detrimental treatment. Does anybody have any info on this and his "sudden" departure from the band?

Kasim's take on this is simply that he'd had enough of working with Meat and thought it was time to go do his own thing. He was especially unhappy with the Bat 3 experience (as everyone else involved seemed to be) and didn't like the direction things seemed to be heading in. But he's also talked about Meat being "a bully" and throwing him against a wall.

As for Patti, I'm sure nobody here wishes her anything but well, or doubts her strengths on stage. But she is making herself look bad through these ongoing childish Twitter messages - that's if anyone looks past her endless conspiracy theories, paranoid wordplay, and anti-vaxx nonsense.

[jmfreeman]

Also, around the time he left, Kasim's wife became seriously ill and later died. No doubt that led to a reappraisal of his priorities.

[AndrewG]

Still don't understand why/how Meat let himself be talked into having Marion Raven on Bat 3. I'd have told Desmond Child / the record company or whoever caused that stupid nonsense to get stuffed for sure. Maybe they promised his image would attract a younger audience with an up and coming singer or something? Ludicrous!

I mean sure Child had a few good songs (co writing credits at least - whatever he really added there who knows) but does anyone like Raven's vocal credits? What the ~~~~ was the point? Do any of the fans remember any of this nonsense and consider it a great moment in Meat's career? The same as that whole God COULD talk instead of the far more logical WOULD talk which Rundgren was trying to explain. What a frustrating man Child must have been having to work with. We've all heard Steinman was difficult to work with, but at least the end result is good and makes sense. Child just seemed to be difficult because he could do so and I bet he had some type of pre-arranged deal with Raven or whatever was going on there.

I really don't think it was worth upsetting Patti over to have these generic pop Raven vocals PLUS I'm willing to bet a thousand pounds Patti's vocals would have been far superior on IACBTMN.

What a stupid carry on in hindsight.

[jmfreeman]

It doesn't appear to be an experience that anyone enjoyed or looks back on with any fondness, to say the least.

Of course hindsight (and am impartial POV) is a blessing, but it seems like it gained the wrong momentum and just barreled out of control. There were too many dark clouds hanging over the project from the start, right from the whole battle over the name of the project and the rights to certain songs all the way through the recording process, too many cooks, the fallout afterwards, and a rather rocky tour to follow.

[2jaxx]

The same as that whole God COULD talk instead of the far more logical WOULD talk which Rundgren was trying to explain.

The lyrics of the song were plain stupid and self-centered, don't get me wrong. But I tend to disagree on that matter. Someone who questions the existence of god can also question his ability to talk. It is a question of the point of view. Given that most of Meat's songs don't reflect his opinion but the opinion of a character (the lyrical I), using this part of the lyrics for criticism is rather pointless. The rest of it is plain bad though.

[jmfreeman]

Yes, have to say I don't see a problem with that lyric/title. Is it a proven fact that God CAN talk after all? Is he just stubbornly refusing? :lol:

[Max]

But she is making herself look bad through these ongoing childish Twitter messages - that's if anyone looks past her endless conspiracy theories, paranoid wordplay, and anti-vaxx nonsense.

Thank you for saying this. I think we should all keep this context in mind when discussing Patti and wish her the best

[AndrewG]

The lyrics of the song were plain stupid and self-centered, don't get me wrong. But I tend to disagree on that matter. Someone who questions the existence of god can also question his ability to talk. It is a question of the point of view. Given that most of Meat's songs don't reflect his opinion but the opinion of a character (the lyrical I), using this part of the lyrics for criticism is rather pointless. The rest of it is plain bad though.

To me I just reasoned with Rundgren and from then on thought it is just a dumb lyric and title.
IF you believe in the existence of God then "could" seems to indicate he cannot communicate with you or something silenced him. It just seems a bit strange to me.

Or are we saying that the burning bush used mind control? :lol:

Personally I don't believe in God. Having said that I never really have a problem with it being mentioned in lyrics to a certain extent.

But Dianne Warren's song was weak and the video of Meat committing suicide was just a disgrace, that after an already gloomy It's all Coming Back To Me Now just seemed to throw all the fun and excitement out of Bat 3. I just don't want to see that type of grim nonsense at all, unless it is in some form of strong context which the song and certainly the video did not invoke whatsoever.

[jmfreeman]

There was a lot of doom and heaviness in Bat 3, but then again there was a lot of *everything* in Bat 3. It was a meaty album, if not a Meaty one - and I quite like parts of it (ignoring its troubled birth and repercussions).
Though, talk about doom and heaviness - when I first heard 'Hell in a Handbasket' (the initial release, especially, with its original running order and the emergency broadcast beacon at the end), I felt like the world was ending. I liked it, but it was pretty bleak and uncompromising.

[eltmatt]

Probably work better if The Kitchen Sink episodes were a lot more frequent i.e weekly rather than once every few months.

Patti seems to have time to post on twitter late at night, but doesn't seem to have chance to talk on a frequent basis...

I was literally about to say this, I think the infrequency is ruining the flow somewhat. Also I think episodes seem to go off on a tangent and could do with fleshing out some more detail at times!

[nightinr]

Does anybody know what happened to Meat's top supporter CarylB? The slightest criticism of anything related to Meat Loaf she would be defending him with viguor.

Don't think she has posted for a while....

[ajf33]

Just had a glance at the original (Now locked) thread about Pattis original tweets on Xmas day, that Patti popped into to post, and, a member sent her a pm, and next thing, Pattis posting on twitter about the posts, she's now openly tweeted. Not saying that that (still active member ((Indeed they've posted on this very thread)) is the one who passed on the messages to Patti, but timing certainly fits. (I'm sure there was a tweet from Patti at the time saying she got the messages from a member on here)

[roomster]

Just had a glance at the original (Now locked) thread about Pattis original tweets on Xmas day, that Patti popped into to post, and, a member sent her a pm, and next thing, Pattis posting on twitter about the posts, she's now openly tweeted. Not saying that that (still active member ((Indeed they've posted on this very thread)) is the one who passed on the messages to Patti, but timing certainly fits. (I'm sure there was a tweet from Patti at the time saying she got the messages from a member on here)

Referring to me ajf33? :angry:

Yes, I sent Patti a PM in february 2020, but it was not about or related to leaked private messages.

And I certainly don't like such accusations... :down:

[ajf33]

Referring to me ajf33? :angry:

Yes, I sent Patti a PM in february 2020, but it was not about or related to leaked private messages.

And I certainly don't like such accusations... :down:

Ok fair enough, the timing was just coincidental, so apologies for any offence caused.

Edit I also did say I wasn't saying you did leak the messages to her, just the timing fitted, but as I say above I can accept that was just a coincidence.

[nightinr]

I personally don't think Meat's message should have been leaked to Patti as Meat said three times in the message in effect "please don't tell anyone".

I'm certainly not suggesting it was anybody who has posted on this thread....

The tone of debate in this thread has been great...differing opinions, but informative and lively!

[ajf33]

I promised nothing, with no such statement RE 'revelations'.

There is a timeline with Kitchen Sink.

We're sticking to the timeline.

Whatever you decide, I'm more than happy for you to stick around.

As for me - signing off.

Do you have any idea, working to the timeline you mention, when The Kitchen Sink will reach reach the point in history that Pattis tweets are about? (not rushing you just curious!)

[ajf33]

I must say I've not heard anything but praise and fond memories from Meat, about Patti in interviews, even after these tweets started a couple of years ago, and, as he seems to not be biting on Pattis Comments, I don't think we'll ever hear anything more than Pattis side to this (Other than the leaked PM) so an old saying comes to mind here, there's always three sides to every story, His truth, Her truth and the actual truth.

As meat doesn't seem to visit here anymore (last recorded activity here over a year ago) and I can't see him addressing this on Facebook or twitter, then the full truth will probably never be known by anyone other than those involved.

[aks650]

It all seems a bit petty if you ask me.. she was fired (years ago now) move on..

[Gracie]

Someone leaked private messages? that's kinda well awful/ and low..... :(

I am glad I don't use many social medias only fb and yt for me never go on twitter
fb is okay. mlukfc is my fave! site. and (mlukf) been a member for years and years I miss patti in the band they (P&ML)made an Awesome partnership on stage!
16 no 1'a I remember Jim saying something like that before too! :)
-Gracie :)

[Gracie]

16 no 1's meant to say lol

[stumpjumper]

Hi, it’s Patti. Firstly , I hope this finds you all well. ��❤️��
Secondly, I hope that my posts cause me to heal. I LOVED my service and what I did for many years.
What happened to me was unjust, cruel, and without merit.
I will fight for my honor until I can put my “ sword” down.

[ajf33]

Does anybody know what happened to Meat's top supporter CarylB? The slightest criticism of anything related to Meat Loaf she would be defending him with viguor.

Don't think she has posted for a while....

Not for about a year or more according to her profile!

[nightinr]

Not for about a year or more according to her profile!

No doubt Meat told her not to post on here anymore....

[nightinr]

So what's happened to Kitchen Sink then? Or has Patti released all her revelations on Facebook?

[ajf33]

Not that it means anything, but IIRC Patti reached out to her via Twitter for some reason or other.

[nightinr]

Not that it means anything, but IIRC Patti reached out to her via Twitter for some reason or other.

Forgive my ignorance/stupidity but what is "IIRC Patti"?!

[MarkS]

If I recall correctly

[nightinr]

Are we to expect anymore episodes of Kitchen Sink?

Or has Patti revealed all the interesting stuff on twitter a few weeks ago?