Meat's 2015 plans? [Archive] - mlukfc.com Forums

JennaG

17 Feb 2014, 09:14

Meat Loaf : The new album has 6 Jim Steinman songs on the Record, Total of 14 songs on the record. IT is a great record !!!! M

I know I'm probably in the minority but I'm actually a little bit disappointed at this news because that means that there will be less room for songs by the other writers.
I've really loved some of the songs that Meat has recorded in more recent years and was looking forward to hearing more from some of those writers.

Never mind. It's still great that Meat is working on a new album and I will still be looking forward to its release and hearing what Meat's done with the songs.

nikox1

17 Feb 2014, 11:36

The album could be 2015 then? Boooo!!! I suppose with steinman involved it could be 2017??? 😃

Evil One

17 Feb 2014, 11:57

Those other 8 songs are going to be very short. Or it will be a double CD album. Or some will be download only. :sherlock:

Fire Ball

17 Feb 2014, 12:09

of those 6 songs I'm hoping body is one of them

Body is not one of them , That song is under contract for the Musical .
Meat

PanicLord

17 Feb 2014, 12:15

Body is not one of them , That song is under contract for the Musical .
Meat

Hey Meat hope all is well :)

Wow - so the musical is still on? That's great news!

Can you say anything about the 6 songs - are they newly written, or what era did they come from?

Evil One

17 Feb 2014, 12:23

Body is not one of them , That song is under contract for the Musical .
Meat
~~~~~~. I guess Body is one song we'll never hear then. :lol:

Sebastian.

17 Feb 2014, 12:26

2015 will be a good year.

Hi Meat, btw!

LucyK!

17 Feb 2014, 12:33

2015 will be a good year.

It's certainly got potential huh! (though 2014 ain't looking too bad either!)

Lots of good things to look forward to, very happy!

tonyloaf

17 Feb 2014, 13:58

thanks for the heads up Meat, we will be ready to surport it!

melon

17 Feb 2014, 14:11

Getting excited again :-) and hi Meat *waves*

Sent from my GT-I9197 using Forum Runner

roomster

17 Feb 2014, 14:16

Body is not one of them , That song is under contract for the Musical .
Meat

Thanks for the update Meat :-)

I almost can't wait until I have your next album in my hands! :-)

AndrewG

17 Feb 2014, 18:00

Body is not one of them , That song is under contract for the Musical .
Meat

Well that contract really sucks if that's the case. This locking up songs in a cupboard hasn't done anyone any favours I think.

Vickip

17 Feb 2014, 19:35

me to :)
me three :D

Gez

17 Feb 2014, 20:11

Great...potential...news.
Hopefully find that piggy bank I asked the wife to move... :faint:

This is what it's all about, Great News Meat :bunny:

Meat Loaf_fan

17 Feb 2014, 21:01

He wrote this today on Facebook:

Meat Loaf : WE might do 2 to 5 of shows in the UK in 2015, the O2, Manchester , and Edinburgh, Scotland . Before going to Poland and Russia. Then South America and do the " Last at bat tour in Australia. Also more shows in Vegas. The new album has 6 Jim Steinman songs on the Record, Total of 14 songs on the record. IT is a great record !!!! M

Erm... really?

Great ... Super news to all fans. :-)

He wrote this today on Facebook:

Before going to Poland ... !!!! M

:pray: This is (for me) the most exciting part. :-)

anotherday

17 Feb 2014, 21:03

God I wish we could get LAB IN US!!!!!!!

Ollie241189

17 Feb 2014, 23:43

Body is not one of them , That song is under contract for the Musical .
Meat

Meat... Excitment has just flooded me hearing the news at the top of this thread! But please, please, please do a recording of What Part Of My Body Hurts The Most please? Even if it's just a B-Side. Good god, Meat, that song is made for your voice... And if you need a duet partner... I'm always a call away lol

Evil One

17 Feb 2014, 23:51

Why the bloody hell would you want to waste such a superb song as a B-side? :nuts:

There's no reason why Meat can't record the song and release it at a later date though.

AndrewG

18 Feb 2014, 01:46

Why the bloody hell would you want to waste such a superb song as a B-side? :nuts:

There's no reason why Meat can't record the song and release it at a later date though.

2014 question: What's a B-side?

Given the fact Meat hasn't released a "b side" since 2006 AFAIK I think it's highly unlikely any amount of effort would go into such a process, let alone an amazing song.

BTW given the fact Stuart Beattie's "I, frankenstein" completely bombed at the cinema box office and got terrible reviews even with regards to HIS screenplay I think the chances of Bat out of Hell The Musical still happening are getting slimmer still.... (he was suppossed to be working on the book for the musical)

Evil Ernie

18 Feb 2014, 07:40

Meat Loaf : The new album has 6 Jim Steinman songs[/COLOR]

:D

Body is not one of them.

:(

tonyloaf

18 Feb 2014, 08:59

2014 question: What's a B-side?

Given the fact Meat hasn't released a "b side" since 2006 AFAIK I think it's highly unlikely any amount of effort would go into such a process, let alone an amazing song.

BTW given the fact Stuart Beattie's "I, frankenstein" completely bombed at the cinema box office and got terrible reviews even with regards to HIS screenplay I think the chances of Bat out of Hell The Musical still happening are getting slimmer still.... (he was suppossed to be working on the book for the musical)

we can hope

TheDoode

18 Feb 2014, 10:36

nikox1

18 Feb 2014, 11:04

Body is a great song, but who's to say some of the new ones ain't better? Brave and crazy is a good title etc, but I think it could be given another title? Maybe call it renegade angel? Always loved that title

CarylB

18 Feb 2014, 11:21

nikox1

18 Feb 2014, 12:37

Each to there own I guess? I like brave and crazy, but I just have a feeling it might not stay that. Tom cochrane has a song called brave and crazy? = maybe meat recorded that? Hence the title. Didn't he do cochranes mad mad world?

AndrewG

18 Feb 2014, 13:01

Ahem. Prize Fight Lover.

That wasn't a B Side that was a free released download track AFAIK.

It got my hopes up that HCTB was going to sound more like that song like a Steinman/Springsteen hybrid but I actually thought it was somewhat misleading since the song wasn't even on the album. But it's a whole different story....

Sure they could do that with Body but it wouldn't make sense. If Meat can't add it to the album because of contracts etc it's just not going to happen.

To be fair most of the songs that have impressed me most are the ones I didn't know before: Anything for Love, PFL, Objects, Blind as a Bat, DIST, CHSIB., What about Love. etc...

renegadeangel

18 Feb 2014, 13:34

Why the bloody hell would you want to waste such a superb song as a B-side? :nuts:

There's no reason why Meat can't record the song and release it at a later date though.

My guess is that because its under contract as well as all the other newer Steinman songs that wè`ve heard about, Meat will probably never get the chance to record them. It might all tie in with the deal involving BAT3 and Steinman`s Bat musical agreement.
Or maybe Steinman just said no.

renegadeangel

18 Feb 2014, 13:40

I think Brave and Crazy fits Meat much better ;) Renegade Angel sounds like a Steinman title, and whilst it may have 6 Steinman compositions it has 8 more, and it will be a Meat album. This could be his last album (apart from the Christmas one), and Brave & Crazy just sums up this amazing man's career imo .. his approach, his strength, the way he's kicked obstacles out of the way, his refusal to back down in the face of difficulty, his vision for the big and spectacular, his constant pursuit of that elusive perfect show.

Meat may change it by the time it's released, but I think it's perfect. You need to be both brave and not a little crazy to push ahead and succeed in the way he has done all his life ;)

Very true.
However CHISIB was supposed to be FUNHOUSE and then TESTIFY
HCTB had a working title of BULL IN A CHINA SHOP
BAT 2 was going to be called NEVERLAND
Even going back to DEADRINGER was at one point called I`LL KILL YOU IF YOU DON`T COME BACK but that was more Steinman`s idea
Point is it could be anything until it actually comes out.
I would also be of the opinion that Steinman may have some input into the title as he is clearly more onboard than he was in the beginning.
Gone from 2 to 6 songs and it wouldn`t surprise me to see it go to 10.

CarylB

18 Feb 2014, 14:20

Didn't he do Cochranes mad mad world?

Yes he did, on HIAH, in his own style.

Very true.
However CHISIB was supposed to be FUNHOUSE and then TESTIFY
HCTB had a working title of BULL IN A CHINA SHOP
BAT 2 was going to be called NEVERLAND
Even going back to DEADRINGER was at one point called I`LL KILL YOU IF YOU DON`T COME BACK but that was more Steinman`s idea
Point is it could be anything until it actually comes out.

Of course. I'm aware of all the working titles which were revised, and I said Meat may change it. I was simply responding to the suggestion "Renegade Angel" would be better, and saying why I thought Brave & Crazy was a wonderfully apposite title for a Meat album which might be his last, and saying why.

I would also be of the opinion that Steinman may have some input into the title as he is clearly more onboard than he was in the beginning.
Gone from 2 to 6 songs and it wouldn`t surprise me to see it go to 10.

Perhaps .. but it's Meat's album, and his decision imo. From everything I've heard Steinman has been "on board" for a long time in terms of delivering songs for the album. Meat says 6 plus 8 others, and this came across as what he's going with. I'm more than happy with that. He has some other great writers on board and I'm looking forward to those equally. They have already written songs for Meat which I have loved and with which I could connect powerfully today. I think it's about balance :-)

Evil One

18 Feb 2014, 14:26

I was simply responding to the suggestion "Renegade Angel" would be better, and saying why I thought Brave & Crazy was a wonderfully apposite title for a Meat albumI think Brave & Crazy is the better title of the two. I think Renegade Angel is a pretty poor title to be honest. :shrug:

Tina.K.

18 Feb 2014, 15:09

Evil One

18 Feb 2014, 15:11

All I know is that 14 songs is enough to get the album banned from Walmart. :lol:

nikox1

18 Feb 2014, 15:17

Bat 3 had 14 I think?

Tina.K.

18 Feb 2014, 15:30

Bat 3 had 14 I think?

Exactly my point. :-)

CarylB

18 Feb 2014, 15:36

Aren't 14 songs too much?

It's about quality, not quantity. IMO 10 songs are way enough, focussing on those 10 might give better quality? But I don't know how the recordbusiness works. Maybe they demand a minimum amount of songs.

Well for me Meat only and always delivers quality. It also depends on the length of the songs.

This isn't a Bat album, so I compare with his last three albums, (and any comparison to Bat 3 is likely to lead to disapprobation from thise here who have little regard for it.

HCTB had 14, HIAH had 12, CHSIB had 12 plus the instrumental. These are imo 3 great albums, and they are the ones I listen to the most. So 14 will not be too much for me .. and I trust Meat to make the decisions on choice and the number of songs .. it's one more thing he does best ;)

CarylB

18 Feb 2014, 15:38

And I was right ... :lmao:

Although personally I love Bat 3, and that one was quality too!

I'll taste the finished apple pie, He hasn't baked a poor one yet .. has he Paul? ;) (Crook)

AndrewG

18 Feb 2014, 15:59

BAT 2 was going to be called NEVERLAND

I never heard that one before.
I did remember seeing on the Hits out of Hell VHS tape that it said in the end credits: "Look out for my reunion project with Jim Steinman in 1992: Bat out of Hell (Part 2)."

AndrewG

18 Feb 2014, 16:18

Aren't 14 songs too much?

It's about quality, not quantity. IMO 10 songs are way enough, focussing on those 10 might give better quality? But I don't know how the recordbusiness works. Maybe they demand a minimum amount of songs.

I don't think there is a contractual obligation for length?
In the past I've just taken that on board as Meat and Jim quite often want to give us excess as well. Bad For Good needed a single to fit the extra songs on. Bat 2 was pushing near CD length limit, as was Bat 3 pretty much. Others have been quite long too. Normally at least 60-65 minutes.

A lot of artists get away with 10/11/12 songs and 40-45 minutes for Audio CDs in my buying experience.

nikox1

18 Feb 2014, 16:32

This too many songs limit is an American thing right? Just make it a 2 cd so

Ollie241189

18 Feb 2014, 18:50

Why the bloody hell would you want to waste such a superb song as a B-side? :nuts:

There's no reason why Meat can't record the song and release it at a later date though.

I'd much prefer it as a proper single but if it wont be or cant be I'd prefer to hear it as a b-side than not at all. That's all!

Vickip

18 Feb 2014, 20:02

This too many songs limit is an American thing right? Just make it a 2 cd so

I could be wrong ... but yes, I think Meat posted that they can only have 12 songs on a physical CD in the USA. I don't think there would be the same limit if they released the CD digitally for download on Itunes or Amazon :-)

AndrewG

18 Feb 2014, 20:47

What kind of stupid rule is that? Who comes up with that :shit: ? Does someone really get paid to sit in an office to come up with a rule like that. The world really has gone to Hell in a hand basket.

nikox1

18 Feb 2014, 21:30

It is a very strange rule if true? Haha, makes no sense at all.

Evil One

18 Feb 2014, 21:47

I'd much prefer it as a proper single but if it wont be or cant be I'd prefer to hear it as a b-side than not at all. That's all!You seem to be missing the point. The song is contracted to the Bat musical. Meat can't release it in any way. If he could, then I'm sure he wouldn't be using it as a B-side.

Paul Richardson

18 Feb 2014, 22:50

This too many songs limit is an American thing right? Just make it a 2 cd so

... so we could have a CD of Steinman songs and a CD of the rest ...

nikox1

18 Feb 2014, 22:59

I always thought of it something like this = brave other songs, crazy = steinman songs.

Julie in the rv mirror

19 Feb 2014, 00:18

I could be wrong ... but yes, I think Meat posted that they can only have 12 songs on a physical CD in the USA. I don't think there would be the same limit if they released the CD digitally for download on Itunes or Amazon :-)

There is no such rule- I have plenty of CD's with over 12 tracks. I think what Meat was referring to is that Wal-Mart won't carry CD's with more than 12 tracks, for some reason- cost? So, if artists want Wal-Mart to carry their album, they either need to limit it to 12 tracks, or come out with a separate edition.

I do know that the royalty payment to songwriters is more once you put over 12 tracks on an album- no idea why.

Elijah's way

19 Feb 2014, 00:29

Adje

19 Feb 2014, 00:30

I can't in america because of publishing money that is paid out ,anything over 12 songs I have to pay for out of pocket, The Uk and europe verision I think I can put them all on I'm checking.
M

AndrewG

19 Feb 2014, 00:36

Lol I don't think I've ever known of someone bitching about a future album having to many songs.... On another note, does anyone have any idea who is producing? If it isn't Jim then I hope it's rob cavallo.

I would imagine Paul Crook would be part of the production team at least? Thought Rob Cavallo's production was excellent on HCTB.

Vickip

19 Feb 2014, 01:16

There is no such rule- I have plenty of CD's with over 12 tracks. I think what Meat was referring to is that Wal-Mart won't carry CD's with more than 12 tracks, for some reason- cost? So, if artists want Wal-Mart to carry their album, they either need to limit it to 12 tracks, or come out with a separate edition.

Thanks for the clarification .. and yes I have a feeling it has to do with cost.

I do know that the royalty payment to songwriters is more once you put over 12 tracks on an album- no idea why.

That is bizarre.

Vickip

19 Feb 2014, 01:18

I would imagine Paul Crook would be part of the production team at least? Thought Rob Cavallo's production was excellent on HCTB.

Or maybe Paul Crook will be producing it himself ? I absolutely agree about Rob Cavallo's production on HCTB but
I also think that Paul did a great job with HIAHB :D

CarylB

19 Feb 2014, 01:36

Or maybe Paul Crook will be producing it himself ? I absolutely agree about Rob Cavallo's production on HCTB but
I also think that Paul did a great job with HIAHB :D

I think he did too .. and from what he said last year at Vegas, he seems to be working with Meat on this one. And I'd think they'd want Chris Lord Alge again too ;) I doubt Jim will be producing the whole album, although doubtless he'd have an input into his songs. But recording has changed so much now .. it's not as it was in the old studio days

Julie in the rv mirror

19 Feb 2014, 02:02

Thanks for the clarification .. and yes I have a feeling it has to do with cost.

That is bizarre.

I did a little more research to try to find the royalty rate reference and couldn't, but I know I read it someplace. What I did find is that record companies will often put a cap on royalties paid per record, based on the rate paid for 10 or 12 songs, for example (or whatever is agreed upon). In other words, if the going rate is 9.1 cents per song, (as it is currently, though it's more for longer songs), that puts a maximum of $1.09 paid on a 12-song album. If you put 14 songs on said album, each song only receives 7.8 cents, instead of 9.1. I believe this is what Meat means when he says the extra comes out of his pocket (which it does).

Now, this would be mitigated if Meat wrote or held the publishing on his own songs, since he would in effect be paying himself. Interestingly, though, a lower rate is paid to singer/songwriters, presumably because they make up the difference elsewhere.

I suspect the Wal-Mart limit is related to the royalty cap as well- I read that sometimes retailers pay the royalties as well.

As to digital downloads, it appears royalty rates are the same as for physical CD's.

Lol I don't think I've ever known of someone bitching about a future album having to many songs....

I can think of a specific example (not here)of people bitching that an existing album has too many songs. :roll: :lol:

renegadeangel

19 Feb 2014, 12:55

TheDoode

19 Feb 2014, 13:16

Certainly alot of back and forth over how many songs and who is writing. God help us if Meat ever gives us any more info on the album.
I`m just happy that
1 we have a new album coming out
2 its going to have at least 12 songs
3 Steinman is finally onboard and is providing six songs.

Having Steinman on board is not a guarantee of success but it certainly improves the odds. Meat is already hyping this in interviews and it really is a great story behind a new album. The most successful partnership in rock and roll together again.
Who can argue with that

Agreed. I'm feeling a lot of passive anti-Steinman-ism going on here, but I've got to be honest, when I think of Meat Loaf, every single song that pops into my head is - more or less - a Steinman song. And that's not to discredit Meat Loaf - I mean, how could it - it's just to say that Meat is a great performer/singer, and Jim is a great writer. Together, it's the perfect package, and that's the style of music I want to hear. It's what made they both successful, and what remade them both in the early nineties. So while I'm always interested to hear the other songs, I'm more interested in the Meat & Jim material. I mean, come on, Meat's most public identifiable songs are - arguably - Bat Out of Hell and Anything For Love - who wrote those, after all?

CarylB

19 Feb 2014, 15:18

Agreed. I'm feeling a lot of passive anti-Steinman-ism going on here, but I've got to be honest, when I think of Meat Loaf, every single song that pops into my head is - more or less - a Steinman song.

Or perhaps some active pro-Meat-ism? ;)

When I think of Meat every single song that pops into my head isn't a Steinman song .. probably because Meat has in the last 15 years recorded so many songs Steinman didn't write, and to some of us these are just as special, memorable, make just as much of a connection.

Of course it's great that Meat and Jim are working together again .. that collaboration is what made us, around the world, aware of a great composer and a great singer and performer .. each outstanding in their own right, enhanced by working together, and introduced us to something that grabbed the hearts of all of us, and that may never be matched or surpassed by any other collaboration again. But perhaps some of us feel that posts implying that it would be better to have 10 (or even 6 or 8 ) songs all composed by Steinman, rather than 14 which include others, or that other songwriters might be almost quaking in their boots to have a song following a Steinman one etc seems a little passively anti-anything-but-Meat-delivering-Steinman-ism ;)

When I think of Meat's recordings now, ones that immediately spring to my mind are Did I Say That?, Forever Young, Peace on Earth, Did You Ever Love Somebody?, Testify!, Alive, All of Me, Our Love and Our Souls and many others. I go to shows and still love to hear his Steinman penned classics .. they're great, great songs, and they come with wonderful memories. But on the occasions when I've been lucky enough to hear any of the others I've listed live, those too have created wonderful memories.

I've read so many posts about What Part of My Body Hurts the Most. I've heard a clip of Rob Evans singing it, read the lyrics. If I too may be honest .. I would take Did I Say That?, or a song of the same calibre, over it any time. That's a personal perspective .. and is not "anti-Steinman" .. it's simply I consider that song to be superb, an outstanding composition, and Meat's delivery of it perfection .. to me.

I'm just happy that
1. Meat is bringing out a new album
2. That he is clearly excited to be working on songs written by Jim again, and that according to Paul they will "blow your mind"
3. That it will have 14 songs
4. It will have new songs from Steinman and songs from other writers who also have a track record of composing songs for Meat which I love

Evil One

19 Feb 2014, 15:36

I've read so many posts about What Part of My Body Hurts the Most. I've heard a clip of Rob Evans singing it, read the lyrics. If I too may be honest .. I would take Did I Say That?, or a song of the same calibre, over it any time.It's worth pointing out that the Rob Evan version isn't finished. Apparently there's an as yet unheard second verse. Also Rob Evan certainly isn't Meat Loaf. In fact Rob Evan is far, far, far from being even in the same room as Meat Loaf.

AndrewG

19 Feb 2014, 16:02

It's worth pointing out that the Rob Evan version isn't finished. Apparently there's an as yet unheard second verse. Also Rob Evan certainly isn't Meat Loaf. In fact Rob Evan is far, far, far from being even in the same room as Meat Loaf.

No offence to Rob Evan but to me he sounded like an ok-ish musical singer. There are a 1000 of those on the London West End. Many of who sound more interesting to me. It's why I often can't get too excited about performances on X Factor or the Voice. If they don't sing it with the right passion / connection to the audience it doesn't even matter if their voice is amazing to me.

Evil One

19 Feb 2014, 16:04

Exactly. I think bland is probably the right word.

CarylB

19 Feb 2014, 16:17

It's worth pointing out that the Rob Evan version isn't finished. Apparently there's an as yet unheard second verse. Also Rob Evan certainly isn't Meat Loaf. In fact Rob Evan is far, far, far from being even in the same room as Meat Loaf.

Indeed .. However, as others have judged the song on what is available as one they want Meat to record , it seems fair that I can say on the same evidence that I'm not that in that camp. And I was judging not just on the performance, but the music and the lyrics, neither of which engaged me greatly. My perspective.

I am not saying, and I don't think I have ever seen anyone here say, that Steinman hasn't got a track record of composing brilliant songs. No-one is denying his genius. However, imo others have written superb songs which Meat has recorded, have written superb songs which he hasn't. I may be alone in this view, but I don't think so. When Meat records an album it does not have to contain songs only composed by Steinman for me to look forward to it, nor for me to love it. I do not think I am alone in that either. For those to whom only a Steinman song will do, I am delighted for them that there will be 6 such on the next album. However, some of us love all Meat's work, and will look forward with as much excitement to hear ALL the songs as they will to their six :) Just as Meat will pour his soul into every track with equal commitment and passion. There will also be those who have not followed Meat from the start, who are younger, to whom perhaps his more recent work strikes a much closer chord.

That isn't anti-Steinman, none of it .. it's simply pro-Meat

Tina.K.

19 Feb 2014, 16:21

I just listened to the song "what part of my body hurts the most", heard it for the first time. BIG LIKE!! Imagine if Meat sings it, adding some better and larger backing vocals and tune it up a slightly more bombastic, it would be brilliant!!!

As far as I'm concerned, if this will be the quality of the whole Brave and Crazy album, Let's put 20 songs on it! :D:D

Which other songs will have a chance to get on Brave and Crazy?

TheDoode

19 Feb 2014, 17:32

renegadeangel

19 Feb 2014, 17:50

Indeed .. However, as others have judged the song on what is available as one they want Meat to record , it seems fair that I can say on the same evidence that I'm not that in that camp. And I was judging not just on the performance, but the music and the lyrics, neither of which engaged me greatly. My perspective.

I am not saying, and I don't think I have ever seen anyone here say, that Steinman hasn't got a track record of composing brilliant songs. No-one is denying his genius. However, imo others have written superb songs which Meat has recorded, have written superb songs which he hasn't. I may be alone in this view, but I don't think so. When Meat records an album it does not have to contain songs only composed by Steinman for me to look forward to it, nor for me to love it. I do not think I am alone in that either. For those to whom only a Steinman song will do, I am delighted for them that there will be 6 such on the next album. However, some of us love all Meat's work, and will look forward with as much excitement to hear ALL the songs as they will to their six :) Just as Meat will pour his soul into every track with equal commitment and passion. There will also be those who have not followed Meat from the start, who are younger, to whom perhaps his more recent work strikes a much closer chord.

That isn't anti-Steinman, none of it .. it's simply pro-Meat

Good comments. However the feeling I`ve noticed very little excitement about Steinman`s involvement on the record and that has probably alot to do with his lack of input into any of Meat`s past projects.
Meat has always wanted Jim to be involved and we can go on as much as we want about how great the last non Jim albums have been that Meat has made. A lot of very fair comments there for sure.
However, when Meat himself is clearly very happy and excited to have Jim involved on his next record, his fans should be too.
I definitely would not be surprised to see in the end it being a full Steinman composed album, as we started out with just two songs now we`re up to six. I remember how BAT 2 was finished and Jim add OBJECTS cause he said he wasn`t finished.
This is a pro Meat board and Meat is working with who he wants. Steinman.
In all the interviews he`s given so far that`s the only name I`ve heard.
With all respect to the other writers who will end up on the album

Evil One

19 Feb 2014, 18:08

Which other songs will have a chance to get on Brave and Crazy?Braver Than We Are has been confirmed. Knowing the speed at which Jim works, it's highly unlikely he'll have written five brand new songs especially for this album.

From the aborted Batman musical there is:
Not Allowed To Love
SEfaULanBU4

Still The Children
Gkem0zJ_9_M

I Need All The Love I Can Get
99gjG2BU_f8

Wonderful Toys
xg4RviKYVjU

Graveyard Shift
wJ0LzMZnRZs

There's also the songs from the Confidence Man musical, Tanz Der Vampire, Rhinegold and all the other musicals Jim wrote in the 60's and 70's. Whether some of that material is any good is open to debate.

And there is the part of Only When I Feel that isn't Break It.
lHvNiaLD8iQ

MarkS

19 Feb 2014, 18:38

Good comments. However the feeling I`ve noticed very little excitement about Steinman`s involvement on the record

I have nothing against Steinman, he has written wonderful songs in the rather distant past, but I have grown very fond of what Meat has brought to the table with his last 2 records. I like the new fresh material, versus old material that has probably been lying around for 15 years.

I look forward to a new Meat album because I know he will produce something that I will like, but I'm honestly looking more forward to the contributions from the likes of Rick Brantley and James Michael

Sent from my Moto X using Forum Runner

AndrewG

19 Feb 2014, 19:05

Graveyard Shift would be awesome.
Would love for Angels Arise to be attached though. The lyric "Looks like it's gonna be a dark one tonight." is just superb.

AndrewG

19 Feb 2014, 19:09

I like the new fresh material, versus old material that has probably been lying around for 15 years.

It has turned out a lot of songs Meat recorded for those so called fresh albums ended up being covers themselves which I was very surprised at.

In that light those Steinman songs lying around for 15 years will also be new for 98% of the listeners anyway.

Breeze

19 Feb 2014, 19:15

I really like " We're still the children". Sad to see Body won't be on album but looking forward to seeing the actual picks. I also agree that Meat has recorded some great non-Jim music too.

AndrewG

19 Feb 2014, 19:23

I really like " We're still the children". Sad to see Body won't be on album but looking forward to seeing the actual picks. I also agree that Meat has recorded some great non-Jim music too.

I agree with all your comments and for me the weird thing is that most of the non Jim songs I like from Meat are the ones where I think the writers have tried to emulate his style (CHSIB / DIST / What about Love? / BAAB / Alive / ILFYATTT). I can appreciate many won't agree with that likeliness or the fact that trying to emulate his style is wrong and doomed to failure. To me it got to the stage where I prefer the non Jim songs on Bat 3 than the Jim songs simply because I thought the production and instrumentation choices were just not right for his songs (turning songs into duets, lack of piano based driving force and a massive lack of dynamic contrasts -even Brian May's guitar riffs couldn't save that which on paper I would never thought would have been possible).

So indeed "non Jim Meat" songs can definitely appeal to me! ;)

MarkS

19 Feb 2014, 19:24

It has turned out a lot of songs Meat recorded for those so called fresh albums ended up being covers themselves which I was very surprised at.

In that light those Steinman songs lying around for 15 years will also be new for 98% of the listeners anyway.

Yes Mad, Mad World and California Dreamin' were indeed remakes of hit songs, but the rest of the albums were fresh, and the other songs never really got past the demo stage, so those don't really count as covers. :roll: Songs are recorded as examples for artist all the time, doesn't mean it isn't fresh material. 1/12 of the songs from the last 2 albums were "covers." seems like a pretty good ratio to me.

Bring on Brave and Crazy :lol:

CarylB

19 Feb 2014, 19:29

Hmm, if it is pro-Meat-ism, then it's coming across as being to the detriment of Jim Steinman's contribution. I'm no Steinman super-fan, but I'd argue that if you walked into a bar and asked someone to name five Meat Loaf songs, four of them would've been written by Jim. It definitely wouldn't include Peace on Earth, Did You Ever Love Somebody, and All of Me (as good as those songs are).

But those of us on this board are not just anyone in a bar are we? Those who have said they are looking forward to all the songs, who know and are looking forward to the songs from other writers, wouldn't necessarily identify 4 out of 5 as being written by Steinman (leaving aside the fact that those random people in the bar would probably not know who had written the songs, which at least we do, and give Jim credit).

However, when Meat himself is clearly very happy and excited to have Jim involved on his next record, his fans should be too.

I haven't seen any suggestions people aren't happy. I was responding to a comment about "a lot of passive anti-Steinman-ism" .. and I do not see that equal pleasure that Meat is recording, or that he will have songs from other excellent writers is "anti-Steinman", either active or passive.

I definitely would not be surprised to see in the end it being a full Steinman composed album, as we started out with just two songs now we`re up to six. I remember how BAT 2 was finished and Jim add OBJECTS cause he said he wasn`t finished.

Personally I would be surprised. I am also looking froward to the songs from the other writers, I hope we will get 14 tracks. and were we to get 14 Steinman tracks I doubt I'd see the album early next year frankly .. and that would disappoint me

This is a pro Meat board and Meat is working with who he wants. Steinman.
In all the interviews he`s given so far that`s the only name I`ve heard.
With all respect to the other writers who will end up on the album

Actually I have heard him refer to other names .. but be that as it may, for I'm not going to try and track down in which interview that was, of course Meat is recording songs from writers he wants to work with .. Steinman of course, and that must delight him .. but also those others he has selected.

It's not obligatory to want only Steinman compositions on a new Meat album. I have said more than once I am delighted for Meat, and for those who seem to want only Steinman songs that they are getting more than was first anticipated. I will also say again it is NOT "anti-Steinman" to be looking forward to the songs from other respected writers. I have paid full respect to Steinman in my replies here .. principally because he deserves it, and also because Meat expects that of his fans. But I like the work of other writers as well. That is MY taste, and not anti anyone, not disrespectful of anyone's genius, and simply because I am a fan of Meat's work, across the board.

Evil One

19 Feb 2014, 19:35

Yes Mad, Mad World and California Dreamin' were indeed remakes of hit songs, but the rest of the albums were fresh, and the other songs never really got past the demo stage, so those don't really count as covers. :roll: Songs are recorded as examples for artist all the time, doesn't mean it isn't fresh material.Most of the songs on Hang Cool were already released before Meat sang them. If you have no issue with this then you should have no issue with him singing a couple of Steinman songs that have 'probably been lying around for 15 years.'

CarylB

19 Feb 2014, 19:38

I have nothing against Steinman, he has written wonderful songs in the rather distant past, but I have grown very fond of what Meat has brought to the table with his last 2 records. I like the new fresh material, versus old material that has probably been lying around for 15 years.

I look forward to a new Meat album because I know he will produce something that I will like, but I'm honestly looking more forward to the contributions from the likes of Rick Brantley and James Michael

Meat has said that Jim has written some new material, certainly lyrics.

But I strongly agree with your second paragraph; not to take anything away from Steinman's work, that there is something new and different in the work of Brantley and Michael that really appeal to me, and I struggle to see why this should be construed by anyone as some veiled criticism of Steinman. It's not. It's simply an appreciation of the work of other gifted songwriters.

TheDoode

19 Feb 2014, 19:41

But those of us on this board are not just anyone in a bar are we? Those who have said they are looking forward to all the songs, who know and are looking forward to the songs from other writers, wouldn't necessarily identify 4 out of 5 as being written by Steinman (leaving aside the fact that those random people in the bar would probably not know who had written the songs, which at least we do, and give Jim credit).

I haven't seen any suggestions people aren't happy. I was responding to a comment about "a lot of passive anti-Steinman-ism" .. and I do not see that equal pleasure that Meat is recording, or that he will have songs from other excellent writers is "anti-Steinman", either active or passive.

Personally I would be surprised. I am also looking froward to the songs from the other writers, I hope we will get 14 tracks. and were we to get 14 Steinman tracks I doubt I'd see the album early next year frankly .. and that would disappoint me

Actually I have heard him refer to other names .. but be that as it may, for I'm not going to try and track down in which interview that was, of course Meat is recording songs from writers he wants to work with .. Steinman of course, and that must delight him .. but also those others he has selected.

It's not obligatory to want only Steinman compositions on a new Meat album. I have said more than once I am delighted for Meat, and for those who seem to want only Steinman songs that they are getting more than was first anticipated. I will also say again it is NOT "anti-Steinman" to be looking forward to the songs from other respected writers. I have paid full respect to Steinman in my replies here .. principally because he deserves it, and also because Meat expects that of his fans. But I like the work of other writers as well. That is MY taste, and not anti anyone, not disrespectful of anyone's genius, and simply because I am a fan of Meat's work, across the board.

My original comment, which you replied to, was regarding Meat's songs that the general music-listening public would recognise, hence my further reply. But I'm more than happy to take your word for the rest Caryl :-)

Edit: though as for the latter half of your comment to Mark S above, I think you should review the tone of this thread if you're still in the dark about why some might find the tone kind of anti-Steinman.

MarkS

19 Feb 2014, 19:43

Most of the songs on Hang Cool were already released before Meat sang them. If you have no issue with this then you should have no issue with him singing a couple of Steinman songs that have 'probably been lying around for 15 years.'

Again, demos, don't count as releases. A few of the songs had iTunes EP releases in the United States, but not an actual physical release, but the rest of the world had likely never heard of them, actually I venture to say most in the US had never heard the demos until Meat named the songs that he was going to sing. So, by AndrewG's own logic, this would still be fresh material :roll:

And, if you had been assed to read my original post, I have no issue with Steinman material, I just prefer songs that aren't over 15 years old, which the vast majority of Steinman material is likely to be, sans a few new lines.

TheDoode

19 Feb 2014, 19:57

I have no issue with Steinman material, I just prefer songs that aren't over 15 years old, which the vast majority of Steinman material is likely to be, sans a few new lines.

Would it make a difference if it was 15 year old material that you'd never heard before? Because you what we call 15 year old material we've never heard before? New material. :-P

AndrewG

19 Feb 2014, 19:58

Again, demos, don't count as releases. A few of the songs had iTunes EP releases in the United States, but not an actual physical release, but the rest of the world had likely never heard of them, actually I venture to say most in the US had never heard the demos until Meat named the songs that he was going to sing. So, by AndrewG's own logic, this would still be fresh material :roll:

Surely that is exactly the same for Steinman's mostly unheard demos/songs?

And, if you had been assed to read my original post, I have no issue with Steinman material, I just prefer songs that aren't over 15 years old, which the vast majority of Steinman material is likely to be, sans a few new lines.

I don't understand where that really comes from but each to their own. I could have heard Bat out of Hell today for the first time (sure with a more up to date say Rob Cavallo style production) and still thought it was the best song I've ever heard. In my opinion Steinman's songs are pretty much timeless, I'm sure they will last 100-200 years at least if not beyond. Most of his songs are like Mozart pieces, still impressive after time passes. When you start mentioning things like "cell" (mobile) and "Red Bull" in the lyrics that timelessness is somewhat lost in my opinion regardless what you achieve with production and instrumentation. Also the use of certain words kind of takes away from that timelessness feeling I always think. (Ass / the F word) etc.

MarkS

19 Feb 2014, 20:05

Surely that is exactly the same for Steinman's mostly unheard demos/songs?

I don't understand where that really comes from but each to their own. I could have heard Bat out of Hell today for the first time (sure with a more up to date say Rob Cavallo style production) and still thought it was the best song I've ever heard. In my opinion Steinman's songs are pretty much timeless, I'm sure they will last 100-200 years at least if not beyond. Most of his songs are like Mozart pieces, still impressive after time passes. When you start mentioning things like "cell" (mobile) and "Red Bull" in the lyrics that timelessness is somewhat lost in my opinion regardless what you achieve with production and instrumentation. Also the use of certain words kind of takes away from that timelessness feeling I always think. (Ass / the F word) etc.

That is part of my problem, most Steiman songs, which the exception of the major hits (BOH, AFL, Total Eclipse) aren't really all that timeless, most of the ones I have heard sound quite stale. Now I have heard that he is supposedly updating lyrics so we will have to see if that improves stuff at all. Songs have to evolve somewhat, and use the speech of the time in order to be somewhat relevant to a new and younger audience.

MarkS

19 Feb 2014, 20:07

Would it make a difference if it was 15 year old material that you'd never heard before? Because you what we call 15 year old material we've never heard before? New material. :-P

Again, 15 year old material is going to sound like 15 year old material unless the lyrics are updated. Its usually pretty easy to hear a song and say that it wasn't written recently. And much of the Steinman stuff has been demoed or covered by someone along the way, so I'm guessing most of this stuff is coming from a box covered in dust in the back corner of a dank basement, and it is likely going to read that way.

TheDoode

19 Feb 2014, 20:15

Again, 15 year old material is going to sound like 15 year old material unless the lyrics are updated. Its usually pretty easy to hear a song and say that it wasn't written recently. And much of the Steinman stuff has been demoed or covered by someone along the way, so I'm guessing most of this stuff is coming from a box covered in dust in the back corner of a dank basement, and it is likely going to read that way.

A. We don't know that; it's complete speculation.

B. Actually, no, that's absolute twoddle. I'd give you a 'if you listen to the production you might be able to tell it's from 15 years ago', but unless Steinman's started dropping in references to shell suits and bum-bags I don't buy for one minute that you'd be able to date a song from the lyrics alone. Maybe you should write to him and suggest he drops in a few 'iPads' and 'twerks' so his songs'll have a more contemporary edge :roll:

Evil One

19 Feb 2014, 20:15

renegadeangel

19 Feb 2014, 20:18

AndrewG

19 Feb 2014, 20:23

B. Actually, no, that's absolute twoddle. I'd give you a 'if you listen to the production you might be able to tell it's from 15 years ago', but unless Steinman's started dropping in references to shell suits and bum-bags I don't buy for one minute that you'd be able to date a song from the lyrics alone. Maybe you should write to him and suggest he drops in a few 'iPads' and 'twerks' so his songs'll have a more contemporary edge :roll:

What part of my iPad twerks the most?

MarkS

19 Feb 2014, 20:27

A. We don't know that; it's complete speculation.

B. Actually, no, that's absolute twoddle. I'd give you a 'if you listen to the production you might be able to tell it's from 15 years ago', but unless Steinman's started dropping in references to shell suits and bum-bags I don't buy for one minute that you'd be able to date a song from the lyrics alone. Maybe you should write to him and suggest he drops in a few 'iPads' and 'twerks' so his songs'll have a more contemporary edge :roll:

A. Everything that you are doing is also speculation, so welcome to the club sunshine:roll:

B. Let's take just for example "Frying Pan" one chorus and you can tell the song was written pre 1990 because no one has used the phrase "Out of the frying pan, and into the fire" since, well quite frankly I can't remember the last time anyone said it. It isn't hard to date a song based on production and lyrics, not an exact science, but ballpark isn't that hard, so your entire post was "absolute twoddle" or perhaps poppycock, hey there's another word that hasn't been used relevantly in 20 years.

On a complete side note, since we are going to be rehashing old material, I would love to see Prize Fight Lover get an official release as part of "Brave and Crazy" excellent song

CarylB

19 Feb 2014, 20:31

Edit: though as for the latter half of your comment to Mark S above, I think you should review the tone of this thread if you're still in the dark about why some might find the tone kind of anti-Steinman.

I just read through the entire thread. If you are referring to my comment to Mark "I struggle to see why this should be construed by anyone as some veiled criticism of Steinman." .. As far as discussion on news of the album is concerned, up until you posted you felt there was some passive anti-Steinman-ism, leaving aside discussions on inclusion/exclusion of Body, numbers of songs and restrictions in the USA, and album title, there was one comment that expressed some disappointment that there would be less from other writers, 4 that were elated to find 6 Steinman songs would be on it (including some hopes for more), and one welcoming tracks written by Steinman and others. I don't see anything pervasively anti-Steinman there.

If on the other hand you are referring to my saying in my later reply to Mark:

It's not obligatory to want only Steinman compositions on a new Meat album. I have said more than once I am delighted for Meat, and for those who seem to want only Steinman songs that they are getting more than was first anticipated. I will also say again it is NOT "anti-Steinman" to be looking forward to the songs from other respected writers. I have paid full respect to Steinman in my replies here .. principally because he deserves it, and also because Meat expects that of his fans. But I like the work of other writers as well. That is MY taste, and not anti anyone, not disrespectful of anyone's genius, and simply because I am a fan of Meat's work, across the board.

I would refute that anything in that is in any way "anti" in word or tone. To like the work of other writers is not "anti" Steinman .. and I really do not believe he would see it that way; in fact I'd be disappointed if he did. Nor is it "anti" to look forward to hearing Meat perform their songs.

AndrewG

19 Feb 2014, 20:32

B. Let's take just for example "Frying Pan" one chorus and you can tell the song was written pre 1990 because no one has used the phrase "Out of the frying pan, and into the fire" since, well quite frankly I can't remember the last time anyone said it. It isn't hard to date a song based on production and lyrics, not an exact science, but ballpark isn't that hard, so your entire post was "absolute twoddle" or perhaps poppycock, hey there's another word that hasn't been used relevantly in 20 years.

Actually that's a bad example as that idiom has existed since 1490. That's longer than the USA. But sure I appreciate you are saying you don't tend to hear classic lyrics based on old sayings/clichés etc such as those in Steinman's lyrics in a lot of music almost at all anymore. One has to wonder though if that makes his music more or less timeless. In my opinion it's absolutely the former as I simply cannot imagine me logging on online in 40 years time and debating Miley Cyrus' We can't stop and Justin Bieber's Baby Baby Ooh and talking to some fellow geriatrics "hey remember this classic? It always reminds me of..." etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_from_the_frying_pan_into_the_fire

MarkS

19 Feb 2014, 20:35

Actually that's a bad example as that idiom has existed since 1490. That's longer than the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_from_the_frying_pan_into_the_fire

Excellent example, the point being that no one who speaks normally uses that phrase in 2013. Yes, that like most phrases are old, but when it comes to being used in standard language and dare I say songs, it hasn't been done in a mainstream song since Frying Pan. It dates the bloody material.

Tina.K.

19 Feb 2014, 20:40

Okay, back on topic.

Poland???? Russia???

CarylB

19 Feb 2014, 20:45

As has been previously mentioned in this thread, there have been three 'Meat Loaf' albums in recent years: CHSIB, Hang Cool and Hand Basket. Those who like their Meat 'Steinman free' have been well satiated. Those who prefer their Meat with a big helping of Steinman have had to wait a lot longer.

You're skewing the point here Evil. Saying "those who like their Meat "Steinman free" is putting your concept into the mouths of those who loved those albums. I like Chinese food, not because it is "Indian free", but because I like Chinese food. I can enjoy both; it does not mean I would never want to eat a curry again. Enjoying both is not to eschew either.

Now Meat is doing some stuff with Steinman again, I suggest those who gave the above advice, heed their own words. :twisted:

Again, to say one is looking forward to hearing songs from other writers AS WELL AS STEINMAN is not rejecting the Lord and all his works :roll: Some of us can look forward to both. I do.

CarylB

19 Feb 2014, 20:46

Okay, back on topic.

Poland???? Russia???

Are possibilities, no more .. and the comment was removed from Meat's FB page.

Evil One

19 Feb 2014, 20:59

I would love to see Prize Fight Lover get an official release as part of "Brave and Crazy" excellent songThat's the best thing you've written in this thread. I'd actually be quite happy for the existing version to get a proper CD or high quality MP3 release.

You're skewing the point here Evil.
I never specified to whom my comment related.

Back to the point of Russia and Poland, it's entirely possible that they could go the same way as South Africa and India. :shrug:

TheDoode

19 Feb 2014, 21:00

A. Everything that you are doing is also speculation, so welcome to the club sunshine:roll:

B. Let's take just for example "Frying Pan" one chorus and you can tell the song was written pre 1990 because no one has used the phrase "Out of the frying pan, and into the fire" since, well quite frankly I can't remember the last time anyone said it. It isn't hard to date a song based on production and lyrics, not an exact science, but ballpark isn't that hard, so your entire post was "absolute twoddle" or perhaps poppycock, hey there's another word that hasn't been used relevantly in 20 years.

Nope, you're wrong again. I haven't speculated anything. You put it out there that the Steinman material on this forthcoming album will sound 'like it's 15 years old'. It's up to you to prove it, not me, and you can't prove it because you haven't heard it, ergo: speculation.

And 'Out of the Frying Pan' was never generally used in conversation on a daily basis as far as I know. And so what if it was sixty plus years ago? Doesn't make the song any less great. :roll:

Somehow, I doubt that the new songs will include irrelevant metaphors and obscure turns of phrase that will be lost on a 21st century audience.

TheDoode

19 Feb 2014, 21:05

Excellent example, the point being that no one who speaks normally uses that phrase in 2013.

No one who 'speaks normally'? Leaving aside the obvious, that's an incredibly ignorant comment. What constitutes 'speaking normally' in your view?

And Caryl: I wasn't originally aiming the anti-Steinman comment towards you, though you have since contributed to it. We could debate this forever and day, so I'm happy to say that - I see it, other people have picked up on it: it's not just me - and leave it at that. Either way, it's not worth arguing :-)

CarylB

19 Feb 2014, 21:05

And 'Out of the Frying Pan' was never generally used in conversation on a daily basis as far as I know.

Oh it was .. I guess you're too young to remember it ;):-)

TheDoode

19 Feb 2014, 21:08

Oh it was .. I guess you're too young to remember it ;):-)

This is probably true! :-) Though I'd imagine it's subject to class, region, country, etc.

MarkS

19 Feb 2014, 21:22

Nope, you're wrong again. I haven't speculated anything. You put it out there that the Steinman material on this forthcoming album will sound 'like it's 15 years old'. It's up to you to prove it, not me, and you can't prove it because you haven't heard it, ergo: speculation.

And 'Out of the Frying Pan' was never generally used in conversation on a daily basis as far as I know. And so what if it was sixty plus years ago? Doesn't make the song any less great. :roll:

Somehow, I doubt that the new songs will include irrelevant metaphors and obscure turns of phrase that will be lost on a 21st century audience.

The entire thread with the expception of what Meat has stated as fact is speculation about the new album and 2015 plans, so nice attempt at a heat reversal, but #Fair

As to irrelevant metaphors, this is Steinman we are talking about, the King of irrelevant metaphors, not saying it hurts all the music, but the man uses metaphors more than most.

MarkS

19 Feb 2014, 21:24

No one who 'speaks normally'? Leaving aside the obvious, that's an incredibly ignorant comment. What constitutes 'speaking normally' in your view?

Again, an attempt at a heat reversal, :roll: speaking normally just means using a cadence and language from the century, and not running around talking like we are at a renaissance fair. Granted there are many languages out there, hell many languages on this forum, but we share a lot of common phrases.

Julie in the rv mirror

19 Feb 2014, 21:32

This is probably true! :-) Though I'd imagine it's subject to class, region, country, etc.

I think you're right- I'm not so young, ;) and I don't remember using it very much, if at all.

I agree with you- I think production can "date" a song more than the lyrics can. And, I don't care when a song was written, as long as I think it's good.

If all those cliches were such a problem, why does Bat I still sell as well as it does? It can't only be people replacing their old copies.

TheDoode

19 Feb 2014, 21:35

Again, a half-witted attempt at a heat reversal, :roll: speaking normally just means using a cadence and language from the century, and not running around talking like we are at a renaissance fair. Granted there are many languages out there, hell many languages on this forum, but we share a lot of common phrases.

Mark, I had to report that last one. I'd advise against personal insults and attacks.

As for a 'heat reversal'. It isn't. I'm not feeling any kind of heat, other the one coming from my desk-side radiator (it's cold up here). You're the one making claims here, man, not me. I'm just disagreeing with you.

For the record, your own experience of language and phrase shouldn't really be enforced on anyone else, let alone award winning song writers. Me either, for that matter :roll:

MarkS

19 Feb 2014, 21:40

Mark, I had to report that last one. I'd advise against personal insults and attacks.

As for a 'heat reversal'. It isn't. I'm not feeling any kind of heat, other the one coming from my desk-side radiator (it's cold up here). You're the one making claims here, man, not me. I'm just disagreeing with you.

I changed that for you. But given past history that is fine line to tread. Anyway, we are all just speculating, and if we all agreed it would be a boring little world.

I look forward to whatever Meat brings out with the next album, and if I don't like it, I will just simply listen to something I do like. One thing that I do like about Steinman being involved is that I do think that it will provide at least some closure, or perhaps rather a full-circle in terms of a very storied career.

JennaG

19 Feb 2014, 22:15

Monstro

19 Feb 2014, 22:37

we are all just speculating, and if we all agreed it would be a boring little world.

There are many ways of not agreeing, the vast majority lead to a good discussion which is what was happening in this thread.

Lets all not resort to other ways of not agreeing please.

CarylB

19 Feb 2014, 22:41

I think that's perfectly reasoned and reasonable Jenna .. personal taste is not, or should not be, prohibited or seen as anything but "Pro-" something

And Caryl: I wasn't originally aiming the anti-Steinman comment towards you, though you have since contributed to it. We could debate this forever and day, so I'm happy to say that - I see it, other people have picked up on it: it's not just me - and leave it at that. Either way, it's not worth arguing :-)

I have posted nothing "anti-Steinman". I simply said I did not, and do not believe at the point you raised it there was any such tone pervading the thread, so statements that I have somehow contributed to any such thing are worth denying when they are aimed at me.

If there are other people who consider that anything I have said is "anti-Steinman" let them state that and identify what on earth I have said that is so. To enjoy the work of others is not to disrespect the work of anyone else.

Evil One

19 Feb 2014, 22:48

What I posted earlier in this thread could have been interpreted as being anti-Stienman by some but quite frankly I don't care.I'm sure he at least deserves the courtesy of having his name spelt correctly. :bleh:

nikox1

19 Feb 2014, 22:59

Meat and Jim working together again is simply put =fantastic!!! End of debate IMO, I'm looking forward to the other songs so much aswell, I can't wait. Maybe it's been so long since jim wrote for Meat that everybody is just a little bit excited?

renegadeangel

20 Feb 2014, 01:12

I'm sure he at least deserves the courtesy of having his name spelt correctly. :bleh:

Have to agree with that one.

hell_basket

20 Feb 2014, 07:46

all good news,but more UK shows ??? i thought we hadthe farewell shows :|

JennaG

20 Feb 2014, 08:59

I'm sure he at least deserves the courtesy of having his name spelt correctly. :bleh:

Who are you? The spelling police?

I'm SORRY I spelt his name wrong. It was a GENUINE MISTAKE.

TheDoode

20 Feb 2014, 09:40

What I posted earlier in this thread could have been interpreted as being anti-Stienman by some but quite frankly I don't care. I have seen on several occasions where criticisms of an album, a performance or a concert have come up that people have the right to their opinions. I accept that and am merely exercising my own right to voice my own. If the moderators of this forum have a problem with my doing so then they will respond and deal with it in whatever way they see fit.

I have enjoyed some of the songs that Stienman has written but there has also been many others that have been written by other songwriters and given the fact that I accept that there are a lot of people who are looking forward to hearing the Stienman songs, I don't think I should have to lie about hoping that more songs by other writers are sacrificed to make room for more Stienman songs or that I think his work will overshadow that of the others because that is not the purpose of a discussion board.

If Meat is excited about working with Stienman again then that's great for him and there are many fans here who are excited about it but I don't think that should mean that everyone has to be.

I am excited at the thought of a new album being released but it has a lot more to do with the fact that I like MEAT than because particular people are writing it. I know that without the writers there would be no album but they don't really make much difference to me.

Jenna, I was quite surprised by this post. To say that you 'don't care', and then to go on for three paragraphs about why you don't care - necessary? Yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, but I can't help wonder what this thread would look like if the comments had been directed towards Meat Loaf, his choice in lyrics, etc. from the other side of the field.

Discussion, which is what this is/has attempted to be, IS the point of a discussion board. That's exactly what it is. And as for not 'having to lie' regarding your own opinion on things here - try posting something that doesn't agree/worship something Meat Loaf does sometime, and see what kind of a response you get. There are lots of things I'd like to discuss here, or things that I didn't necessarily agree with, but if I go there I know I'll be bombarded with people telling me that I'm wrong. So I don't do it.

The bottom line is: you can't group Steinman in with all the other writers. He isn't just another writer that happens to write songs for Meat Loaf. You're Meat Loaf fans - surely I don't need to explain this? :shock:

P.S. Mods - I think all the Steinman talk warrants its own thread. What do you guys think?

JennaG

20 Feb 2014, 10:33

Discussion, which is what this is/has attempted to be, IS the point of a discussion board. That's exactly what it is. And as for not 'having to lie' regarding your own opinion on things here - try posting something that doesn't agree/worship something Meat Loaf does sometime, and see what kind of a response you get.

The person who is posting that they disagree with something Meat Loaf has done usually says something along the lines of "this is a discussion board" and "I'm entitled to my opinion" to which the supporters of Meat Loaf will usually try to argue with much as I feel that Jim STEINMAN's fans are doing here.

The bottom line is: you can't group Steinman in with all the other writers. He isn't just another writer that happens to write songs for Meat Loaf. You're Meat Loaf fans - surely I don't have to explain this?

I am well aware of what STEINMAN has contributed to Meat Loaf's career and I respect that but I do not think he should be used to demean other writers. I'm sorry if you find this hard to believe but to me, he is just another songwriter.

I had no idea that to be a Meat Loaf fan that I'd automatically have to be a STEINMAN one too???

TheDoode

20 Feb 2014, 10:48

The person who is posting that they disagree with something Meat Loaf has done usually says something along the lines of "this is a discussion board" and "I'm entitled to my opinion" to which the supporters of Meat Loaf will usually try to argue with

...which is then completely trampled over in favour of the 'positive' opinion (that not everyone shares).

much as I feel that Jim STEINMAN's fans are doing here.

I'm not really a Jim Steinman 'fan'. I know relatively little about him. I just know that I like some of his music in relation to Meat Loaf. If Jim released something sub standard (I'm sure he probably has), I'd acknowledge it as that. And no one is saying that you can't have an alternative point of view - but when you come in with 'I don't care' and expect that not to warrant a reply... The difference between this discussion and the Meat Loaf discussions is that here you* have to be on the 'right' side, and there you have to be on the 'right' side. There is no difference. It's not really discussion if the (for want of a better term) 'pro Meat/my opinion is always correct' team are stifling the contributions of everyone else.

I am well aware of what STEINMAN has contributed to Meat Loaf's career and I respect that but I do not think he should be used to demean other writers. I'm sorry if you find this hard to believe but to me, he is just another songwriter.

That makes two of us! :-) I haven't 'demeaned' any of the other writers, though I'd argue that by referring to Jim Steinman as 'just another writer' and by CAPITALISING his name every time that's exactly what you're doing here. And I think he's done a little more than just 'contributed to Meat Loaf's career'. It's arguable that without Jim Steinman we wouldn't be sitting here now and this site wouldn't exist as it does.

I had no idea that to be a Meat Loaf fan that I'd automatically have to be a STEINMAN one too???

No one has said that, but there's a lot of inseparable history that you can't really ignore. If you like BOOH, AFL, FRYING PAN, OBJECTS, etc, then you like Steinman, more or less.

*although I used the word 'you', it's not directed personally towards you Jenna. And none of this is personal or directed towards any one person. It's just a way of illustrating a point so that discussion can go on.

tonyloaf

20 Feb 2014, 11:50

here we go again

Guy

20 Feb 2014, 12:04

here we go again
Are you talking about the above discussions or has your rash come back?

renegadeangel

20 Feb 2014, 12:32

The person who is posting that they disagree with something Meat Loaf has done usually says something along the lines of "this is a discussion board" and "I'm entitled to my opinion" to which the supporters of Meat Loaf will usually try to argue with much as I feel that Jim STEINMAN's fans are doing here.

I am well aware of what STEINMAN has contributed to Meat Loaf's career and I respect that but I do not think he should be used to demean other writers. I'm sorry if you find this hard to believe but to me, he is just another songwriter.

I had no idea that to be a Meat Loaf fan that I'd automatically have to be a STEINMAN one too???

Sorry but Steinman is not just another writer. He is the writer for Meat Loaf. Neither one of them has had the same impact working apart as they have had working together, with all due respect to Bonnie Tyler.
Meat has gone to Jim for every album for songs. If he was just another writer why bother so much.
Together they made a some great albums. Pretty clear that Meat would like to do that again.

renegadeangel

20 Feb 2014, 12:36

And on another note I am also happy to see James Michael back. I really like what he does with Sixx AM. Rick Brantley is another writer I like to see write for Meat. To me it looks like they`re putting together a killer team of writers.

LucyK!

20 Feb 2014, 14:43

This thread started quite positive and exciting..!

TheDoode

20 Feb 2014, 14:48

This thread started quite positive and exciting..!

Agreed. I think it'd be a good idea to split it - mods?

CarylB

20 Feb 2014, 15:12

Agreed. I think it'd be a good idea to split it - mods?

I disagree. I think people have expressed their views, and that another thread would only produce more of the same, and I'm not sure what end it would serve.

TheDoode

20 Feb 2014, 15:14

I disagree. I think people have expressed their views, and that another thread would only produce more of the same, and I'm not sure what end it would serve.

I didn't realise you were a mod :-P

No I agree on that score Caryl, but I still think it should be split as this thread has gone severely off topic.

tonyloaf

20 Feb 2014, 15:23

Are you talking about the above discussions or has your rash come back?

the rash of course

AndyK

20 Feb 2014, 15:23

We houldn't need to split the thread. Both Brave and Crazy's release and any show plans are part of Meat's 2015 plans.

What everyone needs to do is take a little step back from the keyboard and have a serious think as to whether they are contributing to the thread and the discussion in a positive way or are they contributing to the thread and discussion in a way the continues the self destructive and cyclic arguments we see on here time after time.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, of course, but when that opinion starts to spill over into personal attacks and trolling, either deliberate or otherwise then a line has been crossed.

You all know what it is you're doing that causes this endless cycle, please stop it.

JennaG

20 Feb 2014, 15:23

If you like BOOH, AFL, FRYING PAN, OBJECTS, etc, then you like Steinman, more or less.

I've always thought of a fan as being more than someone that likes a few songs by a particular person but I guess that depends on how you look at it. I don't mind a few of Lady Gaga's songs but I wouldn't consider myself to be a fan of hers in any real way.

Meat has gone to Jim for every album for songs.

Considering the fact that Meat Loaf has released several albums without any involvement from Steinman, I find that statement hard to believe.

lorenzoduke

20 Feb 2014, 17:02

Ahem. Prize Fight Lover.

I thought 'Don't' was pretty stellar too.

loaferman61

20 Feb 2014, 17:49

renegadeangel

20 Feb 2014, 23:43

I've always thought of a fan as being more than someone that likes a few songs by a particular person but I guess that depends on how you look at it. I don't mind a few of Lady Gaga's songs but I wouldn't consider myself to be a fan of hers in any real way.

Considering the fact that Meat Loaf has released several albums without any involvement from Steinman, I find that statement hard to believe.

Then unfortunately you don`t follow his interviews. That all started in 1984 with BAD ATTITUDE and carried on with most of his albums except HCTB and HIAHB.

BostonAngel

21 Feb 2014, 04:28

Sorry but Steinman is not just another writer. He is the writer for Meat Loaf. Neither one of them has had the same impact working apart as they have had working together, with all due respect to Bonnie Tyler. ..
It's YOUR OPINION that Steinman isn't just another writer. Some of us, myself included, do have the opinion that he's indeed just another songwriter; Granted a very successful 1. Meat's worked with many different songwriters over his career, so your statement that Steinman is THE WRITER for Meat is a falsehood. It is an OPINION that you hold. What you are now doing is making your opinion into fact. Being dimissive of others' views, yes they will understandably get defensive & even arguementitive. Then threads like this go to hell...in a handbasket. The impact of Meat's music would be the same for me even if he NEVER recorded another Steinman song after BOOH album. Have to give him credit for that since it got Meat's music to the masses.

BostonAngel

21 Feb 2014, 04:44

I am happy that Brave & Crazy is being released in 2015. 6 songs on it by Steinman - awesome; NO songs on it from Steinman - awesome. Something written by James Michael - awesome; NO James Michael involvement - awesome. Something written by an unknown - awesome. I looking forward to hearing the work of whoever Meat has chosen to write & how he inteprets that work. My wish for 2015 would be that he brings The Last At Bat show to The Beacon in NYC. Better yet, would love to see that happen in 2014

stretch37

21 Feb 2014, 04:54

6 songs from jim, awesome. 12 songs from jim, epic.

ps why does Jim being brought up evoke an argument every time...ahhhhh save me :-P

BostonAngel

21 Feb 2014, 06:19

Mr. Happy

21 Feb 2014, 07:14

For MR. HAPPY: HOW DARE YOU SAY SOMEONE ELSE' OPINION IS WRONG. So yours is the only OPINION that matters & everyone must agree with you. That is so small-minded, arrogant, rude and dispectful. The whole purpose of a forum is for ALL to be able to express their ideas. If someone expresses an opinion different from yours you can agree to disagree. Calling someone elses opinion flat-out WRONG definately crosses the line. Yes mods feel free to edit, delete as recquired

They didn't delete it, I did, apparently too late and apparently for good reason. What I deleted didn't warrant that response, though. I don't think you could have possibly blown my comment further out of proportion if you tried :|

You have the one and only Jim Steinman to thank for every song in the Meat Loaf songbook. He is the reason Meat had the opportunity to record every other song we all know and love on Midnight, BA, BBIS, WTTN and CHSIB. The only albums he really had no influence on were the last two. My exact words were "Fair enough if you prefer other writers, but you can't deny his influence over Meat's career."

And then I agreed with you about being psyched for other writers.

EDIT: My apologies if it came across as offensive, as it really wasn't intended to be. I deleted it because I felt it could come across that way (even if I felt it shouldn't), and it clearly did. If you want to continue this, we can take it to PM.

rockfenris2005

21 Feb 2014, 07:30

Just in general, guys, I noticed Meat said this yesterday on his FB page and I thought I'd post it here.

Meat Loaf Jim and I were meant to be together , Oh I would have most Likely had a hit or have maybe never done a record, just film and stage. Jim would have done very well with his Music working on Broadway and film. But I don't believe either one of us would be the same without each Other and Bat 1 or Bat 2. Jim and I are soul mates !!! Bottom line. It is a stupid argument. Who would be what without the other one. It didn't happen that way. We have both done great things with and without each other. Jim is is the SONGWRITERS HALL OF FAME . I GOT INTO THE TEXAS FILM HALL OF FAME ... WHAT MORE COULD WE WANT . Except to be a better person tomorrow than we were today. I know I want to be have a better show than the night before everytime I go on stage I know Jim wants nothing more than to be a better writer tomorrow than he was today. It is or never was some kind of contest it was 2 people working very hard together !! ROCK ON !!! M

JennaG

21 Feb 2014, 08:49

Then unfortunately you don`t follow his interviews. That all started in 1984 with BAD ATTITUDE and carried on with most of his albums except HCTB and HIAHB.

I wasn't even born in 1984 so no, I haven't followed all the interviews for every album.

Based on what you have just said, you've just admitted that your earlier statement about Meat Loaf going to Steinman for songs on every album is incorrect.

TheDoode

21 Feb 2014, 09:57

Just in general, guys, I noticed Meat said this yesterday on his FB page and I thought I'd post it here.

Well there it is, the horse's mouth so to speak. :cool:

Tina.K.

21 Feb 2014, 10:43

Well there it is, the horse's mouth so to speak. I think that signals end of discussion on that one :cool:

Yep, so now can we go back on topic again please which was the reason I started this thread?

Why would he choose for Poland or Russia or South America, when Imo most of his fans live in the UK and the westside of Europe. Or am I wrong about that?

nikox1

21 Feb 2014, 10:45

Amen.

nikox1

21 Feb 2014, 10:53

So it's almost certain a 2015 release then? So another year or more then before release, ( sad face ). At least it won't be rushed and I guess that extra bit of time given to it will only help. I posted this question before, what do people think the sound and feel of this album will be like? I Mean Jims songs are so distinctive like, so will the other songs fit into the sound, or have been written to fit that style. Like bat 3, steinman songs plus other writers. Now I know Jim didn't produce them, but it will be interesting.

Evil One

21 Feb 2014, 11:01

Why would he choose for Poland or Russia or South America, when Imo most of his fans live in the UK and the westside of Europe. Or am I wrong about that?Perhaps because the UK and Europe have had oodles of tours over the years and other countries haven't? :shrug:

CarylB

21 Feb 2014, 12:40

Why would he choose for Poland or Russia or South America, when Imo most of his fans live in the UK and the westside of Europe. Or am I wrong about that?

No you're not wrong. However, I wouldn't assume Meat has chosen them, nor at this stage that they are anything more than possibilities, ideas that were at that moment on his mind. Given Meat removed that from his page shortly afterwards, it may be by no means certain. Meat has a new album coming out in 2015. I would hazard a guess that any record company might be asking him to tour to promote it. Meat has made it very clear that he no longer wants to tour. Promoters and the record company may well want him to. Ultimately it is promoters who put forward the deals based on what they get out of it. Meat's final say may be limited to refusing rather than choosing where and what to do .. remember Popstar to Operastar was all part of a deal in order to promote Bat3. We can speculate all we want, but it would be in a whopping void as we don't know enough of what is going on behind the scenes.

So it's almost certain a 2015 release then? So another year or more then before release, ( sad face ).

The original date Meat identified was for the release to be late this year, so the date he's now mentioned is only a few months further off, and he has a very busy schedule this year. He's said he may stop performing on stage at the end of 2015, so he has a lot to juggle ;)

nikox1

21 Feb 2014, 14:13

@ Caryl,, yes so it's still a year away. Yes I know he said September 14 first? And what? I'm hoping its sooner.

szakal88

21 Feb 2014, 14:34

Why would he choose for Poland or Russia or South America, when Imo most of his fans live in the UK and the westside of Europe. Or am I wrong about that?

Meat has always complaining about high taxes in Germany, so it's smart to come to Poland, where taxes may be lower. It's near to Germany, Poland is a cheep country for all Western Europe, so it's easy to travel for Germans, British and others.

Moreover there are bunch of fans in Poland, who would like to go to his concert, but can't afford to travel abroad.

Evil One

21 Feb 2014, 14:51

In the middle of a rant on Facebook are these interesting tidbits:

Getting ready to record 9 Steinman tracks Jim thinks I can still do Justice to his songsWhen I can no longer walk on that stage and give a good and sometimes very good show. I will walk away. Most Likely , I will stop at the end of 2015 He may have hit the 9 key instead of 6 by mistake, but you never know...

TheDoode

21 Feb 2014, 14:56

remember Popstar to Operastar was all part of a deal in order to promote Bat3

Was that for Bat III, or HCTB?

melon

21 Feb 2014, 15:04

Was that for Bat III, or HCTB?

Pretty sure Bat III

Evil One

21 Feb 2014, 15:06

@ Caryl,, yes so it's still a year away. Yes I know he said September 14 first? And what? I'm hoping its sooner.I'm not. I'd rather everyone involved take their time and produce something excellent. Hell In A Handbasket was very good, but it was rushed. With a bit more time it could have been excellent. I don't want Brave & Crazy to be very good, I want it to be excellent.

TheDoode

21 Feb 2014, 15:09

Pretty sure Bat III

Ha, I can't remember when Opera Star aired now. Wasn't it around 2009/2010? :-)

tonyloaf

21 Feb 2014, 15:19

it was HCTB, Bat on Broadway was the used to big up Bat 3

melon

21 Feb 2014, 15:21

Ha, I can't remember when Opera Star aired now. Wasn't it around 2009/2010? :-)

Could have been! My memory is pretty bad, but I had a feeling it was Bat III

CarylB

21 Feb 2014, 15:22

Was that for Bat III, or HCTB?

It was HCTB .. a deal that enabled him to be resident in London and travel all over Europe each week doing the media Playback Events for the launch of HCTB. And a smart deal too imo. Mea culpa .. and doesn't negate the point I was making .. but thank you for picking up on this inaccuracy.

Vickip

21 Feb 2014, 16:31

Two of my favorite Meat Loaf songs, Paradise & Rock 'N Roll Dreams, were written by Jim Steinman.
And my other favorite, The Giving Tree, was written by Evan Watson. So I have to admit that I really
don't care who writes the songs for the new CD as long as they're great songs :-) Clearly Meat's excited
about the new CD .. that's what I'm happy about at this point and I just hope that the record label gives
him the support he deserves so that it's a huge hit for him :up:

As far as the shows go, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. But it certainly is fun to think about ...
it's all great :D

nikox1

21 Feb 2014, 17:10

I'm not. I'd rather everyone involved take their time and produce something excellent. Hell In A Handbasket was very good, but it was rushed. With a bit more time it could have been excellent. I don't want Brave & Crazy to be very good, I want it to be excellent.

Which I agree, in a past post I stated the extra time will help. I was just stating from a fans point of view = I want the album now!!! That's all, we as fans get excited and can't wait sometimes.

Evil One

21 Feb 2014, 17:15

You need to calm down. Nothing good comes from being premature.

nikox1

21 Feb 2014, 19:47

I am calm!! It's you looking too much into it my dear, haha!!! All is good

BostonAngel

21 Feb 2014, 22:08

They didn't delete it, I did, apparently too late and apparently for good reason. What I deleted didn't warrant that response, though. I don't think you could have possibly blown my comment further out of proportion if you tried :|

Since your original post was deleted none of this makes much sense. Unfortunately I had been able 2 quote the post that you have since deleted. Only internet access i have is from my simple crappy cell phone which is very limiting. That's also why i only quoted part of your post here. I can't delete posts from my cell too. However i still did want to address this: You quoted what i posted as my opinion and then said, "YOU ARE WRONG" That is a very clear, concise & direct statement; No possible way to "blow that out of proportion". Saying YOU ARE WRONG to another forum member deserves a direct response. it's unacceptable to me. Deleting after doesn't change it. Mods can delete as they see fit. they have a hard thankless job which they do well.

Mr. Happy

22 Feb 2014, 06:24

However i still did want to address this: You quoted what i posted as my opinion and then said, "YOU ARE WRONG" That is a very clear, concise & direct statement; No possible way to "blow that out of proportion".

Then you misunderstood me. I said it was outright wrong to refer to Jim as just another writer in the context of Meat's overall history, not that it was outright wrong for you to consider him to be just another writer in terms of your personal preferences. The first is a solid fact, not an opinion. Jim started Meat's career with Bat and then saved it with Bat 2. The second, you can feel however you want, I'm hardly going to dictate how you should feel (and that wasn't my intent in the first place either). I even said I agreed with you in being excited about more writers, so me calling you wrong wouldn't have just been rude and stupid, it would have also been hypocritical. James Michael and Rick Brantely have done some amazing work with Meat Loaf, I'm just as pumped for their stuff as I am for Jim's. Couldn't Have Said It Better, Did I Say That, Peace on Earth, Song of Madness etc rank higher than a fair few Jim songs for me.

That's the last I'm going to say about it. I'm sorry I offended you, and like I said, I did take it down because I figured it was probably going to cause trouble and the thread was derailed enough as it was and it was just adding fuel to the flame. A little like this is :bleh:

To be on topic, I'm curious as to whether or not some of the songs Jim is providing this time round will be the ones he wrote for Bat 3 that never materialised on the album. Paradise Lost, The Monster is Out of the Cage and the other ones that either I can't remember or don't actually exist (were there other titles mentioned?). I could see those plus Still the Children, Braver, Speaking in Tongues and a totally new one being the six.

I'd also love to hear Meat cover Rick Brantely's songs Free and Blue Bandanna. Those are just incredible songs that I reckon Meat could do great things with, especially the first one. I'd love to hear that done with a real piano :mrgreen:

Cherry.Loaf

22 Feb 2014, 11:21

So 8 Steinman songs is great news; I love Jim nearly named my black rabbit Stein

2015 is looking great already :) Russia and Poland for honeymoon than ;)

TheDoode

22 Feb 2014, 11:41

Also just found this post from Meat on his facebook page: ' I am being rewarded I am working With Jim Steinman again and there is no bigger reward than that in my Business too me . Thanks, M'.

Sounds like everyone's happy; can't wait to see what they come up with come album time! :cool:

CarylB

22 Feb 2014, 14:35

He has a revised title .. Braver Than We Are

anotherday

22 Feb 2014, 17:27

He has a revised title .. Braver Than We Arewhere did you see this???????

mtaylor315

22 Feb 2014, 17:46

Meat posted this on FB:

http://media.mlxxfc.net/Braver.PNG

Evil Ernie

22 Feb 2014, 17:55

Also just found this post from Meat on his facebook page: ' I am being rewarded I am working With Jim Steinman again and there is no bigger reward than that in my Business too me . Thanks, M'.

I love Meat, but I REALLY wish that he would proofread what he posts on twitter, forums, etc...

Paul Richardson

22 Feb 2014, 17:58

He has a revised title .. Braver Than We Are

A Steinman title and now 9 (?) Steinman songs. The longer it pans out, the more likely it will end up as a full album. More reasons not rush it ! :cool:

Evil One

22 Feb 2014, 19:04

Call me blasphemous, but I prefer Brave & Crazy. Braver Than We Are is a good name for a fantastic song, but I'm not sure it works as an album title. :shrug:

A Steinman title and now 9 (?) Steinman songs. The longer it pans out, the more likely it will end up as a full album. More reasons not rush it ! If the number of Steinman songs keep growing then it's going to force the rest of the songwriters off. Unless Meat does two albums. :rly:

tonyloaf

22 Feb 2014, 19:15

until the next album :)

CarylB

22 Feb 2014, 19:37

A Steinman title and now 9 (?) Steinman songs. The longer it pans out, the more likely it will end up as a full album.

I'm sure that wasn't meant to rekindle a discussion we've moved on from, but I hope Meat sticks with what he has in mind (and I strongly suspect the "9" was a mis-type), as I'm looking forward to the other songs as well.

Call me blasphemous, but I prefer Brave & Crazy. Braver Than We Are is a good name for a fantastic song, but I'm not sure it works as an album title.

So do I .. but albums often take a title from one of the tracks I guess. I really liked Brave & Crazy, but the current title is a nice tribute to the composer imo.

TheDoode

22 Feb 2014, 21:17

The vibe I'm getting I think Meat would be thrilled if there was enough Steinman material for a whole album. And that's not to say that I'm not looking forward to any other songs he might record, but if his last album was to be an album by the two people that started this whole thing off, well, that could be a very cool thing :cool:

chairboys

22 Feb 2014, 21:51

how many more twists and turns will there be?

Vickip

22 Feb 2014, 21:56

how many more twists and turns will there be?

Who knows ... but it's fun to think about :D

nikox1

22 Feb 2014, 21:59

Braver than we are is a good title, it makes sense. As I'm sure the marketing team will push the steinman involvement to the max😃

Elijah's way

23 Feb 2014, 00:01

Bat Out Of Hell IV: Braver Than We Are

Paul Richardson

23 Feb 2014, 00:17

I'm sure that wasn't meant to rekindle a discussion we've moved on from, but I hope Meat sticks with what he has in mind

It was, and a far more interesting discussion regardless of whether we've moved on from it or not. ;)

Not sure how or why you know what Meat has in mind, but from what I've seen (and I agree with Doode here) Meat appears really pleased with Steinman's greater involvement. :roll:

We may yet get another Steinman written and produced Meat album. How anyone can think that this is less than good, or not preferable to an album with a number of writers of lesser talent, escapes me. :twisted:

CarylB

23 Feb 2014, 01:46

Not sure how or why you know what Meat has in mind, ..

Because he SAID what he has in mind :roll: He has said which other writers have written songs, said there will be 14 tracks, and said he has 6 written by Steinman

..but from what I've seen (and I agree with Doode here) Meat appears really pleased with Steinman's greater involvement. :roll:

Has anyone suggested he's not? I too can judge appearances. It would would of courses be pretty dumb to not say he was pleased, and Meat isn't dumb .. but I am sure he is genuinely very pleased.

We may yet get another Steinman written and produced Meat album. How anyone can think that this is less than good, or not preferable to an album with a number of writers of lesser talent, escapes me. :twisted:

Clearly it does escape you .. but I venture to think it is more a case that you do not want to entertain any view but yours and that of those who would vastly prefer an album entirely written by Steinman. Yet all the discussion about the Steinman penned songs on here seems to be about ones Jim has already written. Meat has said that he was persuading Jim to write a new verse for one. That's great. I don't know if he has written any new songs, but I do know that some of those suggested on this thread don't appeal to me as much as some of those more recently written by other terrific composers Meat has used.

I think it is demeaning to the other writers Meat has said he is using to continually diminish their talent. These are writers who have been and are now writing successful and excellent songs. In my view James Michael's Did I Say That? is a superb song, one of the best Meat has ever recorded. I could not dismiss him as being of "lesser talent".

What I find distasteful is that there seems an active and continuing attempt here to push anyone who likes other writers Meat uses into some corner where they are portrayed as bizarre and beggaring belief, or in some way disrespectful to, or "anti" Steinman simply because they DO enjoy the songs written by others, or odd because they trust Meat to be able to identify great songs penned by others and which make an equally powerful connection with them.

Some might very well think that to shut one's mind like a steel trap to any songs by any other composers escapes them .. I couldn't possibly comment.

renegadeangel

23 Feb 2014, 01:57

[QUOTE=CarylB;601235]I'm sure that wasn't meant to rekindle a discussion we've moved on from, but I hope Meat sticks with what he has in mind (and I strongly suspect the "9" was a mis-type), as I'm looking forward to the other songs as well.

Judging by the fact that Steinman's involvement is growing and more of his songs are being added, it seems that Meat is looking forward to more of Jim's contributions, without demeaning anyone elses. If it was a mis-type wouldn't it have been corrected by now?
Also I doubt we'll see much more info on the album as what little we have had seems to have stirred people up quite a bit.
Caryl why do you seem to be so intent on wanting Meat to go with other writers? No hard feelings meant here but I am just curious.
My opinion is that Meat bring something to Steinman's songs that no one else can. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD is by far one of the most beautiful songs ever released.
I have no way of knowing what Steinman songs Meat will record on the new album. I have no way of knowing if they're any good or not. But I think it would be fair to say that the odds are that this will be an incredible record.

CarylB

23 Feb 2014, 02:22

Judging by the fact that Steinman's involvement is growing and more of his songs are being added, it seems that Meat is looking forward to more of Jim's contributions, without demeaning anyone elses. If it was a mis-type wouldn't it have been corrected by now?

I think you will find it has been removed. Meat was at full throttle replying to a very rude and irritating individual .. I think it is more than possible that the "9" was a miss-key. Steinman's contribution has increased to 6 for sure. That it is still growing and likely to be more is an assumption. What I refer to as demeaning is the continual suggestion that other composers are lesser writers.

Caryl why do you seem to be so intent on wanting Meat to go with other writers? No hard feelings meant here but I am just curious.

I think I have explained several times why I enjoy the other writers Meat uses. I have NEVER said anything against him working with Steinman .. simply that I like the songs from the others too, and that personally .. and musical taste is allowed to be personal .. I am just as excited to hear these other songs he has selected. I am not wanting Meat to "go with other writers" instead of Steinman .. just that I want to hear their songs as well. I do not understand why this seems to be seen as an either/or.

You perhaps had not read my reply to Paul Richardson when you were writing this. To explain in more detail why I like these other writers AS WELL seems likely to be construed by some as somehow "knocking" Steinman .. and I do not wish that. However, I will say that the metaphors in for eg All Of Me made an immediate and just as powerful connection with me as any I have heard. Others write songs for Meat which he delivers and which give me just as much pleasure as many Steinman songs. That is not suggesting Steinman is "a lesser writer", not taking anything from his undoubted brilliance or so many wonderful songs he has penned. I simply also love many songs written by others, so I am looking forward to them as well, and so I am not sitting here praying that Meat will jettison these.

My opinion is that Meat bring something to Steinman's songs that no one else can. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD is by far one of the most beautiful songs ever released.

I'd agree wholeheartedly that Meat brings something to Steinman's somngs that no-one else can. Have always said this. Yes, FCOL is one of the most beautiful love songs written by Steinman and sung by Meat. In my view Did I Say That? is also one of the best.

I have no way of knowing what Steinman songs Meat will record on the new album. I have no way of knowing if they're any good or not. But I think it would be fair to say that the odds are that this will be an incredible record.

I'd agree. I just don't happen to think that it will somehow be a lesser album by including the songs that Meat has said other writers that I respect have given him and will be on the album as well.

I do not consider CHSIB, HCTB or HIAH lesser albums either. My taste, my view, my pleasure.

Paul Richardson

23 Feb 2014, 09:47

Clearly it does escape you .. but I venture to think it is more a case that you do not want to entertain any view but yours and that of those who would vastly prefer an album entirely written by Steinman.

Some might very well think that to shut one's mind like a steel trap to any songs by any other composers escapes them .. I couldn't possibly comment.

Kettle / pot ... pot / kettle. :roll:

I'm sorry, but I think this is somewhat hypocritical.

Paul Richardson

23 Feb 2014, 10:00

What I refer to as demeaning is the continual suggestion that other composers are lesser writers.

While you're entitled to your opinion, by any objective measure they demonstrably are 'lesser' writers, ie longevity, sales, charts, and - slightly bizarrely in connection with Steinman - output as well.

Then there is the subjective measure that Steinman has contributed to Meat's career to a vastly 'greater' extent than any other writer he has worked with - and I can scarcely believe I have to cite it here of all places - ie Bat, Bat 2, the defining moment of Meat's career and his comeback.

If this is not a reasonable definition of 'greater' versus 'lesser' I don't know what is.

CarylB

23 Feb 2014, 10:35

While you're entitled to your opinion,

Indeed, thank you.

JennaG

23 Feb 2014, 10:45

Not sure how or why you know what Meat has in mind, but from what I've seen (and I agree with Doode here) Meat appears really pleased with Steinman's greater involvement. :roll:

If he is then that's great for him but given the situation that the message was posted in, I wouldn't be 100% sure that he intended to write 9 songs. If he did intend to write that there were 9 Steinman songs then fine, that's great for everyone who wants to hear that sort of thing. I don't believe that it should be compulsory to be excited that there are more Steinman songs on the album than was originally suggested and I'm no more excited for the album than what I was when it was first announced

We may yet get another Steinman written and produced Meat album. How anyone can think that this is less than good, or not preferable to an album with a number of writers of lesser talent, escapes me. :twisted:

I think that is a matter of personal opinion. I enjoy listening to the work of other writers and do not consider that they have less talent and I think that your suggestion that they do is rather demeaning. Although there are some Steinman songs that I enjoy listening to when they are delivered by Meat, my favourite albums are some of the later ones that do not have any involvement from Steinman and when I listened to HIAH, it was the first album that I'd ever listened to that I clicked with and loved on the very first time I played it.

You say that the sales and longevity are evidence that Steinman is 'better' than some of the other songwriters but HCTB and HIAH, both albums by writers that you are so rudely dismissive of, both achieved top five positions in the UK charts. They kept Meat in the public eye, showed people that he's still creative and keen to bring out new material and that he's still relevant.

nikox1

23 Feb 2014, 11:02

TheDoode

23 Feb 2014, 11:18

Yeah, I heard that the directors responsible for Beverly Hills Cop 3, Terminator Salvation, and Alien Resurrection are working on all new films. I'm really excited. I mean, who wants the original guys back anyway.

That Cameron dude and that Scott guy for example. They were, like, wayyyy out of their depths.

I'm not saying their input wasn't important or that I didn't enjoy it, but I'm WAYYYYY more excited to see what McG comes up with!!!!!

:p

Okay, so that wasn't entirely sincere (jesus, I hope it wasn't), but you get the idea. I'm not trying to flame anyone or single out any person; it's just an illustration of how this same conversation seems to be going.

Time to move on already.

nikox1

23 Feb 2014, 11:39

Yeah and remaking avatar too!!! It made no money at the box office first time out lol,, I'm actually starting to like the new album title,

CarylB

23 Feb 2014, 11:45

Meats bringing out a new album ( that's the main thing). It will be a great album we all hope. I've enjoyed all Meats latest stuff, I even posted stuff saying so a long while back, he created a new fresh sound and tried new things etc etc,, some very talented young writers were involved. But it's the norm now and always has been the case that an artist will go full circle in there career. And if this Is to be Meats final album it's fitting that he ends it with Jim.

Meat hasn't brought out a new album this century that I have not considered great :) I have no doubt I will feel the same about this one. You say " if this Is to be Meats final album it's fitting that he ends it with Jim". He is, and I have not suggested otherwise. But if it's to be his last (apart from the Christmas album) then I would like some superb songs from those talented younger writers who helped him deliver the fresh new sound as well. That is to me a fitting way to close, encompassing the best from a long career of great recordings.

I'm not saying their input wasn't important or that I didn't enjoy it, but I'm WAYYYYY more excited to see what McG comes up with!!!!!

I do not see where anyone has said they are "WAYYYYY more excited" to hear the songs by other writers. I am looking forward to all the tracks, including those from the likes of James Michael.

Those who would be way more excited to have a shorter album with nothing but Steinman compositions are welcome to their view. However, there is no reason at all why any Meat Loaf fan should feel differently, nor be unable to say this.

Time to move on already.

I thought that but Mr Richardson disagreed

It was (.. meant to rekindle a discussion we'd moved on from) , and a far more interesting discussion regardless of whether we've moved on from it or not.

TheDoode

23 Feb 2014, 11:57

I do not see where anyone has said they are "WAYYYYY more excited" to hear the songs by other writers.

I haven't gone back and checked, but I'm sure that's what started this whole discussion...

Those who would be way more excited to have a shorter album with nothing but Steinman compositions are welcome to their view. However, there is no reason at all why any Meat Loaf fan should feel differently, nor be unable to say this.

I don't think anyone has said that. There's been the odd piece of speculation that that's where it could be heading if the songs are available, but no one's said 'we don't care about the other writers' ... apart from those on the 'other side' who have voiced their opinion that they are more interested in hearing non Steinman material.

Also - 'a shorter album'? You lost me on that one.

I'm know this perpetuates the conversation, but your post was directed towards me so I replied :-) End of the day there's a new Meat Loaf album on the horizon with Jim Steinman attached. And, as it is at the moment, he's seemingly contributed over half of the songs on the album. I'm pretty excited about that; and from what I can gather Meat is too :cool:

Evil One

23 Feb 2014, 12:09

I would like some superb songs from those talented younger writers who helped him deliver the fresh new sound as well. That is to me a fitting way to close, encompassing the best from a long career of great recordings.Using this logic, the album should have songs from Diane Warren and Jacobs/Durkee as well.

nikox1

23 Feb 2014, 12:24

I didn't ask how you will feel about the album Caryl? I just said the main thing is we are getting a new Meat Loaf album. I said it's fitting ending it with Jim involved. My post was not referring to anything you have said, this is fact!!! - most artists go full circle in there careers, I was just stating it's in my opinion great hes working with Jim again on it. If there are other talented writers involved - great!!!

Adje

23 Feb 2014, 12:49

Well my input does not add anything to the debate but this is how I personally feel about the Steinman news.

"Thank God, Steinman does half the songs. Even if they end up being his worst written songs it will still stay miles ahead from that trainwreck called Hang Cool Teddy Bear and it won't have that terrible hiphop-rap-crap disaster, just because it's trendy not to write music anymore. No more 'Little Johnies' and "Chuckies'on a Meat record! I say HALLELUJAH for the real music writer! Could it be more perfect? Yes, but only if Patti was there to sing Steinman. Oh well, No Johnies, no Chuckies and No Patti... Two Out of Three Ain't Bad"

(again, personal opinion)

You can continue arguing :-)

CarylB

23 Feb 2014, 12:51

Using this logic, the album should have songs from Diane Warren and Jacobs/Durkee as well.

And I'd be vey happy were that the case

I was just stating it's in my opinion great hes working with Jim again on it. If there are other talented writers involved - great!!!

Don't see that I have said anything contrary to this .. in fact I have said several times it's great Meat has songs from Steinman on the album, and great that other talented writers are involved. That is what seems to cause the shock/horror/incredulity from some ;)

TheDoode

23 Feb 2014, 13:06

I have said several times it's great Meat has songs from Steinman on the album, and great that other talented writers are involved. That is what seems to cause the shock/horror/incredulity from some ;)

But not from me :-)

anotherday

24 Feb 2014, 00:08

This conversation makes me SAD. we've done this SO MANY times since I came here.

tonyloaf

24 Feb 2014, 00:10

Hey maaaaaa, we want Meat Loafffffffff

Paul Richardson

24 Feb 2014, 00:27

You say that the sales and longevity are evidence that Steinman is 'better' than some of the other songwriters but HCTB and HIAH, both albums by writers that you are so rudely dismissive of, both achieved top five positions in the UK charts.

I wasn't 'rudely dismissive' - I didn't say the other writers were 'crap' for example - just 'lesser' than Steinman.

HCTB or HIAH may have done well, but neither reached the top position in the UK charts or sold 40 odd million copies on the way to becoming one of the best selling albums of all time. :roll:

nikox1

24 Feb 2014, 00:31

MarkS

24 Feb 2014, 00:40

I wasn't 'rudely dismissive' - I didn't say the other writers were 'crap' for example - just 'lesser' than Steinman.

HCTB or HIAH may have done well, but neither reached the top position in the UK charts or sold 40 odd million copies on the way to becoming one of the best selling albums of all time. :roll:

Neither may have reached the top of the UK charts, but comparing total sales is pointless consider Bat is over 30 years older than either HCTB or HIAHB :roll:

And I simply completely disagree with your opinion that writers like James Micheal, Rick Brantley, and Evan Watson are "lesser" than Steinman.

Paul Richardson

24 Feb 2014, 01:20

Neither may have reached the top of the UK charts, but comparing total sales is pointless consider Bat is over 30 years older than either HCTB or HIAHB :roll:

The point was that the two are in different leagues when it comes to their success. :roll:

MarkS

24 Feb 2014, 01:24

The point was that the two are in different leagues when it comes to their success. :roll:

The point :roll: is that it is not a fair comparison :roll: who knows what HCTB and HIAHB will have sold in 20 years from now. Could be a completely different landscape, but with the short lifespan the 2 albums have had, you simply can't put them toe to toe with a 35+ year old album like Bat

AndrewG

24 Feb 2014, 01:32

It's sad this thread is totally going off topic constantly but what I find REALLY sad around here is that some people seem to want try to dismiss Jim Steinman as just another song writer / it doesn't matter. I'm sorry but I really think Meat and Jim's history together is worth more than that regardless of what specifics you can think of. They both created this entire musical world to begin with. To try to tear down Jim's songs before we even know what the hell his contributions are is simply wacko. You'd rather hear another songwriter? What's he going to write? How do you know?

It may not be a big deal to those that look at albums consisting just of some songs anyone can write but to Meat who called Jim a songwriter like no other at Jim's induction in the songwriter's hall of fame and his best friend in the entire world it IS a big DEAL.

So let's be happy for both of them.

Breeze

24 Feb 2014, 01:58

I thought this album was a Booh Reunion or sorts. I hope Jim will be fully engaged in this album . I have some Steinman songs I really want to see done properly, but 2 of them are not really songs I would expect Meat to sing. One is Safe Sex and the other is Tonight is what it means to be young. I also like most of the songs selected for the Bat Musical and some from the past from the Blind album, Sailor to a Siren. It has always been one of my favorite Meat songs and I would so like to hear it done again, without that wall of sound.
Anyone else have a wish list of songs you hope to hear ? Children is high on the list. I would have put " Body": at the top of the list. I think it has the potential to be as good as FCOL. It is a incredible song. It is a little painful knowing Meat won't be doing this song on this album. It is so worthy.
I'm going to be fine with other writers too, after all, one of Meat's best songs is " Amnesty is Granted" .

nikox1

24 Feb 2014, 02:09

Graveyard shift would be cool!!!

Breeze

24 Feb 2014, 02:19

also, I love the song " braver than we are" and if that is the new title of the album , well, OK. I loved 'brave and crazy too, but the song is so moving and so TRUE. " We always seemed so braver than we ever are.."

Breeze

24 Feb 2014, 02:40

check out this video someone put up for "Brave than we are".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHfo_I1Lp18

other songs I'd like to hear on this album
vaults of Heaven

possibly some more songs from his Best of album.
I guess I can keep dreaming

roomster

24 Feb 2014, 03:23

Body is not one of them , That song is under contract for the Musical .
Meat

It is really, really, really sad that it's not possible to include What Part Of My Body Hurts The Most on the new album... :(:(:(

I LOVE this song and I wish I could hear Meat sing it... It would really be a dream come true.

To Meat:
Is there absolutely no little tiny chance to include a recording of this song on the new album?

JennaG

24 Feb 2014, 08:38

what I find REALLY sad around here is that some people seem to want try to dismiss Jim Steinman as just another song writer / it doesn't matter. I'm sorry but I really think Meat and Jim's history together is worth more than that regardless of what specifics you can think of.

Personally I think its rather sad that someone can call ANY album of Meat's a 'trainwreck' on a site that is dedicated to Meat Loaf but if that's the way they feel about it then that's the way they feel about it.
For years I'd listened to Meat Loaf's songs without even knowing who'd written the songs in the first place and it didn't really matter to me and even now I'll listen to a song on the radio or something and enjoy it without putting much thought into who has written it.
Nothing anyone says will change my opinion on Steinman and I refuse to be dictated to about how I should feel about the increase in his contribution to this album.

To try to tear down Jim's songs before we even know what the hell his contributions are is simply wacko.

But it's okay to dismiss the other songwwriters by calling their songs 'fillers' before we know anything of THEIR contributions? I think that's a bit of a double standard.

LucyK!

24 Feb 2014, 09:39

What I think it really sad is that we're 22 pages into an argument that's been had countless times before and will be had again!

Generally there are two main groups on here - those who think Meat needs Jim to produce anything decent and those who love Meat's work regardless of who's behind it. We know that, it's always been that way and I'm sure will continue to be, so do we really have to go through this every time there's news?

AndyK

24 Feb 2014, 09:51

What is also very sad is that a reasonable request from the mod team is completely ignored by everyone involved in the "dicussion".

It stops now please! Final warning.

nikox1

24 Feb 2014, 11:03

So does anybody have any idea what songs jim could be using for the album? I remember Meat mention a song scars? He said it was a great song. Not sure who the writer is or if he even mentioned who.

renegadeangel

24 Feb 2014, 12:38

Personally I think its rather sad that someone can call ANY album of Meat's a 'trainwreck' on a site that is dedicated to Meat Loaf but if that's the way they feel about it then that's the way they feel about it.
For years I'd listened to Meat Loaf's songs without even knowing who'd written the songs in the first place and it didn't really matter to me and even now I'll listen to a song on the radio or something and enjoy it without putting much thought into who has written it.
Nothing anyone says will change my opinion on Steinman and I refuse to be dictated to about how I should feel about the increase in his contribution to this album.

But it's okay to dismiss the other songwwriters by calling their songs 'fillers' before we know anything of THEIR contributions? I think that's a bit of a double standard.

I think to dismiss any songwriter is very disrespectful. Anyone that can get a song on a Meat Loaf album deserves all the respect in the world.
Meat is the one picking the songs and he clearly is leaning towards Steinman songs. Doesn't mean the other writers weren't up to par but as Meat has said he wants to work with Jim again and now he is.

AndrewG

24 Feb 2014, 12:43

So does anybody have any idea what songs jim could be using for the album? I remember Meat mention a song scars? He said it was a great song. Not sure who the writer is or if he even mentioned who.

I do think that was a Steinman one and I think someone pointed out it could be related to "Only when I feel"?
It certainly seems to be in the same kind of train of thought as that one or Body just going by the title.

From only when I feel: "There are scars on scars that I know will never heal"...

I think that's why a lot of people like Body it's all about growing older etc.

I wonder if it is the song Paul Crook referred to as being awesome but we shall see.

melon

24 Feb 2014, 14:37

Looking forward to what the coming years will contain from Meat Loaf :) I am genuinely excited :)

Sent from my GT-I9197 using Forum Runner

Meat Loaf_fan

24 Feb 2014, 15:48

I'm convinced that Meat's choice which songwriter should be on the album, beside Jim Steinman, will be the best choice of all. ;)

PS. In my humble opinion there is (at least in this moment) plenty of place for other songwriters (for example: James Michael or Rick Brantley).

Vickip

24 Feb 2014, 19:05

Dave

24 Feb 2014, 19:32

Loooooooooooord!

Breeze

25 Feb 2014, 00:42

I don't "get" why some are asking for a mod to step in.:shock: We are all just talking about what we wish could/would happen. Can't anyone still dream? I have some songs I would like to hear. I feel sad that Body is not one of them b/c I can so hear Meat singing this with the same passion he sang FCOL. Some of us want Jim to be fully engaged in this album and some don't care. So??? We are all just happy and excited to hear the album is a reality and guessing the songs/ writers is fun.

nikox1

25 Feb 2014, 02:05

Exactly!!! Bring on the crashing pianos, the thunderous drums, and passion like no other can deliver ( amen )

Breeze

25 Feb 2014, 02:22

Teenager in Love

".... my dreams are highly flammable..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYQxzgRkFUs

TheDoode

25 Feb 2014, 10:10

I don't "get" why some are asking for a mod to step in.:shock:

If you're referring to my request earlier in the thread: I asked for the thread to be split as it'd gone off topic, and I could see it being locked in the near future if things continued in the way in which they were going. A separate thread would've enabled the discussion to continue.

Paul Richardson

25 Feb 2014, 22:13

The point :roll: is that it is not a fair comparison :roll: who knows what HCTB and HIAHB will have sold in 20 years from now. Could be a completely different landscape, but with the short lifespan the 2 albums have had, you simply can't put them toe to toe with a 35+ year old album like Bat

You can't compare them because some of the albums you mention are very good, but one is a work of genius. How's that for positive discrimination ?

I doubt whether HCTB or HIAH will be much more successful in the future than they have already been. For me they lack the timeless quality of most of Jim's work.

Also, regardless of whether this argument is off topic or not, at least its created interest and generated posts, this site has been deadly the past few weeks ... my opinion.

TheDoode

26 Feb 2014, 11:34

It amazes me how some people have 'disliked' a post I made calling for a thread split - then disliked the post where I explained why - when said thread split was only requested out of an attempt to keep everybody happy by splitting the discussion so that those who want to discuss can discuss, and those who don't have a clean thread to continue talk/praise on Meat's 2015 plans :roll:

CarylB

26 Feb 2014, 13:32

As one of the two "some people":

The moderator decision when you first asked for the thread to be split was that discussion about the album was part of Meat's 2015 plans. I fully accept that decision.

Those who want to express why they would prefer all the songs to be Steinman penned, and those who like those penned by other composers have had ample opportunity to do this and have done so. Each side of the argument are equally committed. No fresh views are emerging, just more entrenched repetition or startled/amazed reactions imo. It would seem that others do not wish to pursue this, may even wish it to stop.

The moderators have asked for those who have been involved in this debate to stop. I am sure Rainer has made it clear in the past that challenging moderator decisions should be done via PM and not on the board. I fully accept that request and that ruling.

TheDoode

26 Feb 2014, 14:31

That's interesting. When I originally called for a thread split the conversation hadn't, at that point, reached its conclusion and the debate was still going on. I've since said that the discussion seems to be over - as Meat confirmed his position on Jim Steinman as someone invaluable to his career and not 'just another writer' - and I then suggested we should move on.

I don't think many here have said that they want all the material to be 'Steinman penned'. Some may have, but it's not the general consensus from what I can gather. If you recall, that's not what this discussion was about. It was about the air of passive negativity some (half) expressed about the inclusion of Jim Steinman's songs on this forthcoming album. I still don't understand why it has to be 'The Other Writers' VS Jim? That definitely wasn't my position.

I did PM Andy, but he said it would be too much of a hassle to split it given the work involved. So I said fair enough and we went about our business. My post above wasn't questioning a moderator decision, but those who have reacted negatively to my reasons why.

But I do wonder why you seem so adamant for discussions to end, even given a dedicated thread... it's just ... weird, given that this is a discussion forum. Anyway, I'm answering you here, in this thread, as you have ignored all previous PMs that I have sent you, including the one explaining the above in what I thought was a very polite and friendly way.

So let's try and move this one on again, and if you have any comments or want to make a response to me about any of this - feel free to PM me, and hopefully that's an end and we can get the thread back on track :-)

I wish we could all just get on without having to resort to threats of locked threads and silencing people.

CarylB

26 Feb 2014, 14:59

I'm not "adamant" .. simply agree with Andy, and responded to your amazement at my disagreeing with your post. (I hadn't read your PM when I replied, but since you raise the matter publicly here of my failure to reply, I will explain, as simply and courteously as I can. My choice is to not enter into any correspondence with you that is not on public view, which is why I did not reply to a previous one.)

I have seen no "threats of locked threads and silencing people." .. simply a request to move on from a discussion going round in circles, and one which I sense many are tired of seeing.

JaysScout

26 Feb 2014, 15:03

The Doode abides! :)

TheDoode

26 Feb 2014, 15:11

... simply a request to move on from a discussion going round in circles, and one which I sense many are tired of seeing.

Yes, I'm tired of seeing it.

I've already requested that you PM me. If you don't wish to do that then it is you who is continuing this discussion by forcing it to take place here. I could choose not to reply, but you seem to think that I have some cause to be 'in the wrong' here, which I really don't :roll:

EDIT: It's only fair to warn you that I've had to now report your last post for propagating the argument and refusing to discuss this matter privately, as requested by the mods. I'm pretty sure we're going to be heading for thread locking/cleaning in the immediate future.

This could've been avoided.

nikox1

26 Feb 2014, 15:46

I agree, lets stay on topic. We have a great new album to look forward to. Mind u I understand some people's annoyance on here, with people who hide there cheap shots with fancy words.

TheDoode

26 Feb 2014, 15:49

I wonder if Meat's going to go all out fantasy with this album, or whether we're going to get a more grounded, personal collection of songs? Either way, I'm really looking forward to what comes out, and at the same time hoping it won't *really* be the last one...

renegadeangel

26 Feb 2014, 16:28

I think its going to be more bombastic wall of sound and definitely over the top.

CarylB

26 Feb 2014, 16:34

I think its going to be more bombastic wall of sound and definitely over the top.

I'm hoping for some beautiful ballads too .. but Paul, referring to what he and Meat had been working on last October, promised some huge, "blow your mind" rock .. so I think you will definitely get your wish ;)

TheDoode

26 Feb 2014, 16:34

I think its going to be more bombastic wall of sound and definitely over the top.

In a Peace on Earth way, or an AFL kind of way? I guess you could argue that both songs deliver that wall of sound feel, though they're completely different in vibe and subject matter. Middle of the road between the two would definitely be PFL, for me :cool:

nikox1

26 Feb 2014, 16:41

Lets hope it's a bit of that old magic!!!

Breeze

26 Feb 2014, 22:06

my comment about "why mods?" was only related to our wishing and dreaming about what the new album will be like. I was not referring to anything else. I too hope for some ballads, they are my favorite. ( but I wouldn't mind one all out rocker). This album sounds like reality now and it is just exciting to hear what others are hoping for.
remember the old song, I think Dusty Springfield sang" wishing and hoping"
All I am reading is some want Steinman all the way and some don't care. Not sure how that makes a controversy ... but for my part, I can go either way.

renegadeangel

26 Feb 2014, 22:14

I'm hoping for some beautiful ballads too .. but Paul, referring to what he and Meat had been working on last October, promised some huge, "blow your mind" rock .. so I think you will definitely get your wish ;)

I really think we can count on that. If you get the chance check out the SIXX AM song SKIN and imagine Meat singing that. James Michael wrote it.

nikox1

26 Feb 2014, 23:38

Stunning song indeed

Evil Ernie

27 Feb 2014, 03:45

Wow. Message board politics.

Retardery at it's finest.

Julie in the rv mirror

27 Feb 2014, 04:24

Wow. Message board politics.

Retardery at it's finest.

On the contrary, I find it endlessly fascinating. ;)

tonyloaf

27 Feb 2014, 09:05

end of the day.... its gona rock!!!

AndrewG

27 Feb 2014, 10:33

On the contrary, I find it endlessly fascinating. ;)

I'm pretty sure that is the view of everyone lurking and posting even if they can't admit that here. Else why bother coming back here.

Evil One

27 Feb 2014, 12:06

Endlessly fascinating to observe retardery at its finest.

nikox1

27 Feb 2014, 12:09

Indeed, plus the cowardly keyboard warriors

AndrewG

27 Feb 2014, 13:48

I really think we can count on that. If you get the chance check out the SIXX AM song SKIN and imagine Meat singing that. James Michael wrote it.

Always thought Nikki Sixx & James Michael should have done a full album for Meat or perhaps contribute along side Paul Jacobs & Sarah Durkee. I think those sets of writers have provided my favourite non Jim Meat Loaf songs.

Remember hearing a snippet of DIST back in 2002 and got quite excited. The title track CHSIB I think is a superb song I wish Meat had done a bit longer live on the tours. I'd much rather hear it than say Pigs or Break It.