Live Downloads

[renegadeangel]

So it seems that Springsteen is offering for sale downloads of his live shows. Personally I think it's an interesting concept.
An acknowledgement of the fact that people are recording the shows anyway with cell phones and posting them everywhere, he is offering an official release of each show.
This has been talked to death on the forum about whether Meat should or shouldn't be releasing board tapes and or fan recordings.
Completely his call.
I recently watched his last at bat concert in Germany on youtube and though it definitely wasn't the same as being there, it was the next best thing. Meat was fantastic in every song. So much better than I was expecting and to see him give such a heartfelt thank you to his German fans, beyond class.
Thats the sort of thing that everyone should have the opportunity to see. It should be up on his own website.
There are not a lot of true performers who put so much of what they are into every show, but Meat is definitely one of them.
It just needs to show more.

[MarkS]

Many artist at least here in the states do this, maybe not every show bur several throughout a tour

Jimmy buffett for example has probably released more soundboards than just about anybody

Sent from my Moto X using Forum Runner

[Adje]

Robbie Williams did even better. People, attending this tour, got a download link with the audio from 'their' concert. :D

[anotherday]

Elton did this. KISS DID this. Why hasn't MEAT DONE it

[CarylB]

Elton did this. KISS DID this. Why hasn't MEAT DONE it

I think he's made his view clear again and again. However, he's done with touring so it's a somewhat moot point now. Meat isn't doing concerts any more. As to his residencies in Vegas, it would be for the producers of Rocktellz & Cocktails to decide surely, and I don't sense they would be likely to do it ... but not much point in another debate as to whether Meat should offer soundboards or not from concerts he has retired from doing

[Evil One]

Now Meat isn't touring any more it's a bit of a pointless argument. A soundboard of the Vegas show will be 8 songs and a lot of talk. Without all the flashy visual effects I can't see it going down all that well. :shrug:

I think a better idea would be a boxset (box download :bleh:) featuring a show from each tour Meat has done. I suspect this may be something we'll see when Meat hangs up his red scarf and has the time to go through his tapes.

[renegadeangel]

When his new album comes out, you don't seriously think he's not going to tour just a bit to support it? Meat has already said he is thinking of Austrailia and I can see him doing more in America than just Las Vegas.

[Evil One]

Not necessarily a tour, but I definitely think he'll be doing at least a handful of shows to promote it. I also think one of them will be filmed for a DVD. A sort of Brave & Crazy/Last At Bat hybrid. I'd much rather have that than a random soundboard of a show.

Meat has a phenomenal back catalogue of live stuff which I'd love to hear, but only if the job's done properly. Churning out every soundboard of every show is quantity over quality and that's not a good idea.

[renegadeangel]

Not necessarily a tour, but I definitely think he'll be doing at least a handful of shows to promote it. I also think one of them will be filmed for a DVD. A sort of Brave & Crazy/Last At Bat hybrid. I'd much rather have that than a random soundboard of a show.

Meat has a phenomenal back catalogue of live stuff which I'd love to hear, but only if the job's done properly. Churning out every soundboard of every show is quantity over quality and that's not a good idea.

Your right about that. Anything from 1985 to 1991 would be very interesting. Maybe a best of 85 to 95 respective

[stretch37]

Robbie Williams did even better. People, attending this tour, got a download link with the audio from 'their' concert. :D

Linkin park has been doing that for years. Great idea!

[loaferman61]

Your right about that. Anything from 1985 to 1991 would be very interesting. Maybe a best of 85 to 95 respective

I think those are doable from around 87-93 either as is or with minimal enhancement, but I doubt he releases it. The older stuff and the more recent stuff I do not think you will ever see officially released. I will just say it is my opinion and not go any further into it.

[Evil One]

I don't think we'll see any retrospective while Meat is still active, as it will invite comparisons to his more recent produce.

As far as I'm aware, at least one show from each tour has been professionally recorded (audio, not necessarily video) apart from the MATLAF tour and the Lost Boys & Golden Girls tour. And I would be really surprised if a show from those were not done too.

Meat lost most of his soundboard recordings pre BBIS, but has most of the shows since then. However as I said above, I'd rather hear the professional sounding stuff.

[anotherday]

8 songs? Is that all he sings?

[Evil Ernie]

I don't think that he has to provide full audio or soundboards, it would just be nice if he let people record clips and put them on youtube if they want.

As somebody else said 'it's his call'.

[CarylB]

8 songs? Is that all he sings?

Last time it was 10 .. Running for the Red Light/Lemon, Dead Ringer, Frying Pan, Hot Patooti and Time Warp, AFL,Took the words, Paradise, All Revved Up and BOOH. Pretty good considering he had just 90 minutes (with another show waiting in the wings to follow him two nights each week) and the show is about so much more than singing. He says he will have longer on this next run, so we'll see what he can add.

[renegadeangel]

I don't think that he has to provide full audio or soundboards, it would just be nice if he let people record clips and put them on youtube if they want.

As somebody else said 'it's his call'.


People are doing that already with full concerts.
It's completely up to Meat to do what he feels is best for him. I started this thread as I found it interesting that Springsteen is doing it now after so many years of no official live releases save for a few.

[Adje]

I may not agree with Meat Loaf's stand on bootlegging but I'm sure happy he ain't Prince (http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/prince-sues-bootlegging-facebook-fans-for-22m-in-piracy-lawsuit-29954300.html) :lol:

[Dave]

Someone mentioned Jimmy Buffett...so glad to be a Parrot Head and be able to swim in not only a complete soundboard archive that is free, but also listen live to any live show the man does.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

People are doing that already with full concerts.
It's completely up to Meat to do what he feels is best for him. I started this thread as I found it interesting that Springsteen is doing it now after so many years of no official live releases save for a few.

Bruce addressed this in a recent interview (bold emphasis is mine):

http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2014/01/14/262485987/a-long-road-to-high-hopes-an-interview-with-bruce-springsteen

Do you have concerns? Some musicians are concerned about piracy or issues around that with the Internet but you seem to be very eager.

I knew that when the smartest man in the music business that I knew was selling headsets, I knew that you were going to have to stop worrying about that completely. It's like my buddy, "Jimmy [Iovine], what are you gonna do about music?" "I'm gonna sell headsets." You're always concerned about it. And look, I think for somebody like me, it's a lot less of an issue. I have a friend who didn't have their own label, put their records out and if they sold 50,000 of those records it kept them in breakfast cereal for a couple of years. And so I think, you know, those were the guys that got hurt by the decrease in record sales from Internet piracy. And I remain being one of those guys that believes you should get paid for your work so I'm old-fashioned in that. And but at the same time, it's there and it has many benefits and the idea of, I think we live more in a touring idea that everything you do is recorded now. And that's OK with me, you know. As a matter of fact, I believe on this tour, we're starting to do something like you can come in, you can buy a [wrist]band, you can get a copy of the night's show. So hopefully we're gonna do that at a really nice-quality level.

We came from the polar opposite. We started out as being very, very controlling. Now it's just a different playing field and so it's exciting: We have our little website and we've been throwing some things from the last tour. If there was a great performance that night, somebody can mix it quickly. We got a guy who directs the show great. And suddenly, we caught a version of "New York City Serenade" from Rome that I was just so glad we had, you know? It was one of those things like it was just a perfect night; we had a string section and the guys played it beautifully. And when I saw it, I said, "I'm so glad this exists." And it wouldn't exist if we weren't thinking about getting it out that way and doing those things. So I'm looking forward to expanding and using more of that in the future and hopefully our fans will enjoy it and it'll give us another canvas to paint on.

I think Bruce is likely using the "Royal We" in the second paragraph. :lol: He used to be a HUGE perfectionist (to the point of OCD, I think- seriously), but that has changed gradually over the years.

Going by this interview and others he's given recently, I think he realizes that he's not going to be around forever, and he's looking to get more music out to the fans. He's regretting not releasing more. He's said, "The light from the oncoming train focuses the mind."

As a fan, this is a fantastic thing! It's not new to the music industry, but this is a huge change in thinking for Bruce- letting go must be difficult for him.

This is something the hardcore fanbase has wanted for many, many years. We have the bootlegs, but to (possibly) get some of those classic shows in pristine quality would be a dream come true. :pray: Not to mention, some of the unreleased material he's got sitting in vaults. Sure, some people will still download stuff for free, but most will pay. He's actually going to reduce the amount of bootlegging going on by doing this.

In regards to Meat, one big difference between his shows and Bruce's (as well as some other bands) is that every show is different, and that makes them more attractive to collectors, as opposed to only the fans who attended a particular show and want a souvenir.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

I may not agree with Meat Loaf's stand on bootlegging but I'm sure happy he ain't Prince (http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/prince-sues-bootlegging-facebook-fans-for-22m-in-piracy-lawsuit-29954300.html) :lol:

Yeah, that was harsh! :shock: Way to alienate your most loyal fans.

He's going to have to demonstrate harm in order to collect anything, and that might not be very easy to do. Not to mention, you can't get blood out of a turnip. I know it's to make a point, but still.

[renegadeangel]

Bottom line is that the music business is changing, almost everyday. I can respect that Meat wants to do things his way and I have no problem with that. But I hope he understands that his fans in North America did not see his last at bat concerts in Europe and the only way have any idea of how great they were is through youtube.

[JennaG]

Bottom line is that the music business is changing, almost everyday. I can respect that Meat wants to do things his way and I have no problem with that. But I hope he understands that his fans in North America did not see his last at bat concerts in Europe and the only way have any idea of how great they were is through youtube.

There will always be fans in some part of the world who did not see a particular tour.
The USA were the only people to see the Mad, Mad World tour for example but I don't think it gives us ay right to expect to see them on YouTube. If they're there and you want to watch them, then watch them and enjoy them but if they're not then it's tough luck.

You said you respect that Meat wants to do things his way and see no problem with that so what does it matter what some other artist is doing?

[renegadeangel]

There will always be fans in some part of the world who did not see a particular tour.
The USA were the only people to see the Mad, Mad World tour for example but I don't think it gives us ay right to expect to see them on YouTube. If they're there and you want to watch them, then watch them and enjoy them but if they're not then it's tough luck.

You said you respect that Meat wants to do things his way and see no problem with that so what does it matter what some other artist is doing?


It doesn't matter what ever one else is doing. It's just an interesting twist to how things are changing. Everyone has their own choice to make and thats fine.
I appreciate being able to see what I can't attend.
We as fans have no rights and thats fair. We take everything we can get and are happy with that. Being an artist such as Meat is pure creativity.
He is one of the rare few who can make magic on stage. It's the sort of thing we won't see again once it's gone and then all we will have left are whatever recordings that were created.
I'm not saying he should do this or do that. His business.
I am saying how much I appreciate the youtube concerts that are up there as they were put together with an obvious amount of care.

[loaferman61]

We as fans have no rights and thats fair. We take everything we can get and are happy with that.

If we the fans made whoever, we have at least the right not to spend our money. As far as taking what we can get, the artist should always give his or her best effort. I have helped make various artists very wealthy and provided them a living for their families in exchange for their work that I want. That is what is fair.
I think for any artist to feel that the fans have no rights would be at the very least ungrateful. Some may feel that way privately.
IMO fans shortchange themselves by feeling like they can just be taken for granted, called stupid, or whatever. When these guys and gals were struggling and wanted to be heard and had no money they understood these things and hopefully they still realize it.
Note I did not mention any performer, just addressed your point.

[Mr. Happy]

I think that Meat is at a point in his career where even if everything DID post recordings like this and they DID get illegally shared to hell and back, it can't possibly have any negative effect anyway. He's made all the money he could ever need, already has a reputation as an amazing life artist...having downloads being pirated won't change that. On top of that, there would be very little expense involved (and the little there is would be covered by the people that DO buy it anyway), you greatly please your fanbase, and you also solidify your legacy as an influential, historic live performer. So what if people pirate it? Is it really that big a deal? :confused:

If he's worried about people's opinion of his current / post Bat 3 voice, then just put up older concerts. Bat 2 era would be incredible :D

Of course, at the end of the day it might just come down to the fact that he's just not interested in it. Which is also fair enough and entirely his right. He's the artist, after all :)

[renegadeangel]

I think that Meat is at a point in his career where even if everything DID post recordings like this and they DID get illegally shared to hell and back, it can't possibly have any negative effect anyway. He's made all the money he could ever need, already has a reputation as an amazing life artist...having downloads being pirated won't change that. On top of that, there would be very little expense involved (and the little there is would be covered by the people that DO buy it anyway), you greatly please your fanbase, and you also solidify your legacy as an influential, historic live performer. So what if people pirate it? Is it really that big a deal? :confused:

If he's worried about people's opinion of his current / post Bat 3 voice, then just put up older concerts. Bat 2 era would be incredible :D

Of course, at the end of the day it might just come down to the fact that he's just not interested in it. Which is also fair enough and entirely his right. He's the artist, after all :)

I like your post. Judging by the reviews in Europe I don't think the voice issue or perhaps non issue, ever came up. I was impressed by what I saw on YouTube and I was ready to be disappointed as it was recorded on cell phones.
Still captured the pure essence of his performance. Not quite as good as being there of course but beggars can't be choosers

[Evil Ernie]

I was ready to be disappointed as it was recorded on cell phones.

I don't understand why people think that a clip sounds bad JUST because it was recorded on a cell phone. I've recorded some AMAZING sounding concert clips on my cell phones.

Fact is that most will perform average the majority of the time, but sometimes they'll simply blow you away... or severely disappoint you.

[Dave]

I've recorded some AMAZING sounding concert clips on my cell phones.

I was able to recorder a couple of near perfect clips from Meat's final show in Columbus OH from my iPhone. I never did post them anywhere, as they are like vine short. No clipping, picture is great, good quality.

[loaferman61]

I don't understand why people think that a clip sounds bad JUST because it was recorded on a cell phone. I've recorded some AMAZING sounding concert clips on my cell phones.

Fact is that most will perform average the majority of the time, but sometimes they'll simply blow you away... or severely disappoint you.

I often find it interesting when the background singers and the band sound fantastic yet people blame a recording as "poor". Just like some "live" dvd's that are so overdubbed they are almost comical. This goes for many artist BTW, no particular subject.

[TheDoode]

I often find it interesting when the background singers and the band sound fantastic yet people blame a recording as "poor". Just like some "live" dvd's that are so overdubbed they are almost comical. This goes for many artist BTW, no particular subject.

Indeed. Though you are blatantly talking about Meat :rly:

[Evil Ernie]

I often find it interesting when the background singers and the band sound fantastic yet people blame a recording as "poor". Just like some "live" dvd's that are so overdubbed they are almost comical. This goes for many artist BTW, no particular subject.

I HATE when artists overdub live albums. This is why I prefer bootlegs to official live.

I want to hear the performance. Good and Bad. I want to hear bad notes, instruments out of tune, the singers voice crack every now and then, etc...

[Evil One]

I have no issue with overdubs to correct a particularly bad part, otherwise you're left with 3 Bats Live. However if many overdubs are required then just redo the whole lot, otherwise it stands out like a sore thumb.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

I HATE when artists overdub live albums. This is why I prefer bootlegs to official live.

I want to hear the performance. Good and Bad. I want to hear bad notes, instruments out of tune, the singers voice crack every now and then, etc...

This is an official release- sounds like he gargled with broken glass:

http://youtu.be/OrkOiYnhxIE

In fairness, it was the second show they'd played in less than 24 hours...


I've yet to hear what one of the new downloads sounds like- I'm waiting for the second show from Cape Town to be posted.

Btw- It seems as if Prince dropped the lawsuit. Most likely was just a ploy all along to get sites to stop posting shows.

[renegadeangel]

This is an official release- sounds like he gargled with broken glass:

http://youtu.be/OrkOiYnhxIE

In fairness, it was the second show they'd played in less than 24 hours...


I've yet to hear what one of the new downloads sounds like- I'm waiting for the second show from Cape Town to be posted.

Btw- It seems as if Prince dropped the lawsuit. Most likely was just a ploy all along to get sites to stop posting shows.

If I remember right he wasn't feeling all that great...

[Julie in the rv mirror]

If I remember right he wasn't feeling all that great...

Yeah, he got the flu or something right before the Euro leg that year- his voice was really rough for a while, though it did improve. Last tour has been fantastic!

[loaferman61]

Indeed. Though you are blatantly talking about Meat :rly:

No. Several performers fall under this. I don't really want to name any but I will name one- Vince Neil. Overdubbed DVD, live videos pulled from the internet, and he has the audience sing half the song. A sure sign his voice is shot IMO.
There you dragged a name out of me :lol:
Why did you assume I meant Meat necessarily? Most reviews on here attest that he sounds great.

[TheDoode]

No. Several performers fall under this. I don't really want to name any but I will name one- Vince Neil. Overdubbed DVD, live videos pulled from the internet, and he has the audience sing half the song. A sure sign his voice is shot IMO.
There you dragged a name out of me :lol:
Why did you assume I meant Meat necessarily? Most reviews on here attest that he sounds great.

Because we're on a Meat Loaf forum, discussing Meat Loaf? ;) Actually, I just wanted to see if you'd bite, but you didn't. I'd have to agree on the Vince Neil issue, though.

[stretch37]

I often find it interesting when the background singers and the band sound fantastic yet people blame a recording as "poor". Just like some "live" dvd's that are so overdubbed they are almost comical. This goes for many artist BTW, no particular subject.

Saw Meat live in Oregon during the hang cool tour and he sounded better than RAH. Because of the randomness of when his shows are great, medium, not so great, i wish he'd release more audio of the great ones....That way, overdubbing wouldn't be necessary at all...and I know he dislikes it as much as any

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Bottom line is that the music business is changing, almost everyday. I can respect that Meat wants to do things his way and I have no problem with that. But I hope he understands that his fans in North America did not see his last at bat concerts in Europe and the only way have any idea of how great they were is through youtube.

It doesn't matter what ever one else is doing. It's just an interesting twist to how things are changing. Everyone has their own choice to make and thats fine.
I appreciate being able to see what I can't attend.[...]

I am saying how much I appreciate the youtube concerts that are up there as they were put together with an obvious amount of care.

As I'm sitting here, I've just finished listening to a concert that was played on the other side of the world less than a week ago, in it's entirety. I was thinking about how, not all that long ago, this would not have been possible, yet today it's commonplace- that blows my mind! In the past, I've watched live webcasts while simultaneously "chatting" with friends all over the world who are also watching the same show- how cool is that? :cool:

One of the things I love about the internet is how it has effectively shrunk the world- just think for instance of all the different places the people on this board come from.

It's awesome as a music fan to be able to share with each other, and to get to see what we've missed. Of course, there's nothing like being there, but it's a lot of fun to be able to "follow the tour", even if it is virtually. :cool:

There will always be fans in some part of the world who did not see a particular tour.
The USA were the only people to see the Mad, Mad World tour for example but I don't think it gives us ay right to expect to see them on YouTube. If they're there and you want to watch them, then watch them and enjoy them but if they're not then it's tough luck.

This sounds a bit harsh to me; why the need for exclusivity? We got this, but you got that, so "tough luck"? Isn't it better if everyone gets a chance to see what they missed? Not everyone can travel to shows, for many reasons. I don't think fans have a "right" to expect to see shows on YouTube, for example, but I think artists who allow this kind of thing (and there are many) show a lot of goodwill towards fans. The main motivation these days is not to make money, or to get something for free- it's for enjoyment. Part of the fun of following a band (which is in itself more about sharing with other fans than it is about the artist/band themselves).

It's the sort of thing we won't see again once it's gone and then all we will have left are whatever recordings that were created.

This is true.

No. Several performers fall under this. I don't really want to name any but I will name one- Vince Neil. Overdubbed DVD, live videos pulled from the internet, and he has the audience sing half the song. A sure sign his voice is shot IMO.

I'm curious if anyone here is a Bob Dylan fan at all (I'm not), what his stance is regarding bootlegs/YouTube? I've heard enough of him live recently to know that his voice is totally shot, though from what I know about him, I doubt he much cares. I also know he is one of the top most-bootlegged artists, so I'm curious.

[CarylB]

I don't think fans have a "right" to expect to see shows on YouTube, for example, but I think artists who allow this kind of thing (and there are many) show a lot of goodwill towards fans. The main motivation these days is not to make money, or to get something for free- it's for enjoyment. Part of the fun of following a band (which is in itself more about sharing with other fans than it is about the artist/band themselves).

As this is in the forum for "Discussions about literally everything related to Meat Loaf." I'll just say that Meat shows a lot of goodwill to his fans in many other ways, including more on-line interaction with them.

I'd also say that I follow Meat rather than a band, and for 20 years did this pretty much alone, no sharing with other fans, and still had a blast ;) Some may, as you say, consider the greatest part of following a performer is sharing with other fans rather than being about the artist .. but not me :-)


I'm curious if anyone here is a Bob Dylan fan at all (I'm not), what his stance is regarding bootlegs/YouTube? I've heard enough of him live recently to know that his voice is totally shot, though from what I know about him, I doubt he much cares. I also know he is one of the top most-bootlegged artists, so I'm curious.

No idea. I went to a concert some years ago, his voice (which was never great imo) was, as you say, completely shot. I kept nodding off, so would never even be tempted to look for a bootleg ;)

[Julie in the rv mirror]

As this is in the forum for "Discussions about literally everything related to Meat Loaf." I'll just say that Meat shows a lot of goodwill to his fans in many other ways, including more on-line interaction with them.

I never said he didn't, nor is Meat the only artist who interacts with his fans online. I just said that fans of said artists/bands enjoy and appreciate it.

I'd also say that I follow Meat rather than a band, and for 20 years did this pretty much alone, no sharing with other fans, and still had a blast ;) Some may, as you say, consider the greatest part of following a performer is sharing with other fans rather than being about the artist .. but not me :-)

Maybe you don't follow a band, but fans of U2, Pearl Jam, Phish, Metallica, etc. do; they have lots of hardcore fans who travel the world to see them, just as you do to see Meat. His fanbase is far from unique in that respect.

Of course it's possible to be a fan of anyone or anything alone (I have, too), but it's a lot more fun, IMO, to share with like-minded individuals- why else would forums like this one exist? People make lifelong friends traveling to and seeing shows together- it becomes an activity in and of itself, separate from the artist or band. Consider Star Trek or comic book fans- I think music fans are similar in many ways. Sharing, collecting and trading shows is a part of that.

No idea. I went to a concert some years ago, his voice (which was never great imo) was, as you say, completely shot. I kept nodding off, so would never even be tempted to look for a bootleg ;)

But yet, he has many fans who love and travel to his shows, and do seek out and collect bootlegs. Of course, Dylan has also released lots of them officially.

[CarylB]

And I simply observed in this Meat related thread, that he does show a lot of goodwill towards his fans, and imo he is more interactive on his FB page than many. You said "Part of the fun of following a band (which is in itself more about sharing with other fans than it is about the artist/band themselves)." Again, I was just observing that for me it isn't, nor btw would I consider that visiting the USA to see Meat's shows as well as going to those in my own small country makes me a world traveller ;) You asked about Bob Dylan .. I just gave my perspective.

I also agree with Evil .. Churning out every soundboard of every show is quantity over quality and that's not a good idea. Imo Meat will leave a legacy of great recordings and DVDs, and I am happy with that

This is in the Meat forum .. Meat has made his position clear, and has finished touring anyway .. so I'm not sure why yet another thread pointing out that other artists sell or distribute live recordings or happily embrace bootlegs is in it .. unless to point out again that Meat doesn't and somehow find him wanting as a performer.

Issuing a DVD of his residency show will be a matter for SPI Entertainment I think, not Meat alone. If they do that will be great and I'd buy it. If they don't, doubtless some bootlegger will try and capture it, and those who want will doubtless find it. But I do not think they, or Meat, will be selling or issuing live recordings, nor encouraging bootlegs, however much evidence people post here that other artists, still touring, do.

[JennaG]

This sounds a bit harsh to me; why the need for exclusivity? We got this, but you got that, so "tough luck"? Isn't it better if everyone gets a chance to see what they missed? Not everyone can travel to shows, for many reasons.

Don't you think I KNOW that not everyone can travel? I would LOVE to be able to go to Las Vegas to see what is probably the best show of Meat's career but I'm stuck in the miserable UK and there are several people I know who'd have liked to have seen LAB but they couldn't travel here to be able to see it either.

The tough luck comment does not refer to the fact that the USA got MMW and the UK got LAB. It refers to the presence of the recordings from these shows. Yes it would be nice if all fans got the chance to see what they missed but we don't live in an ideal world. All I'm saying is that you can't really complain if the artist involved decides that they don't like the bootleg recordings that are out there and has them removed. I don't think it's down to the fact that Meat doesn't care about his fans enjoyment and I think he shows goodwill to his fans in plenty of other ways.

[renegadeangel]

And I simply observed in this Meat related thread, that he does show a lot of goodwill towards his fans, and imo he is more interactive on his FB page than many. You said "Part of the fun of following a band (which is in itself more about sharing with other fans than it is about the artist/band themselves)." Again, I was just observing that for me it isn't, nor btw would I consider that visiting the USA to see Meat's shows as well as going to those in my own small country makes me a world traveller ;) You asked about Bob Dylan .. I just gave my perspective.

I also agree with Evil .. Churning out every soundboard of every show is quantity over quality and that's not a good idea. Imo Meat will leave a legacy of great recordings and DVDs, and I am happy with that

This is in the Meat forum .. Meat has made his position clear, and has finished touring anyway .. so I'm not sure why yet another thread pointing out that other artists sell or distribute live recordings or happily embrace bootlegs is in it .. unless to point out again that Meat doesn't and somehow find him wanting as a performer.

Issuing a DVD of his residency show will be a matter for SPI Entertainment I think, not Meat alone. If they do that will be great and I'd buy it. If they don't, doubtless some bootlegger will try and capture it, and those who want will doubtless find it. But I do not think they, or Meat, will be selling or issuing live recordings, nor encouraging bootlegs, however much evidence people post here that other artists, still touring, do.


The point to the post was not to compare Meat to any other artist. He is in a league of his own. Nor was it to say that he should do this or do that or that fans are owed anything.
I just found it interesting how the music business is changing.
You have said in the past that you don't believe that anything should be posted on youtube as Meat has issues with that.
You have said it detracts from his performance.
Well I notice that redpony has left the last at bat youtube videos alone.
Maybe this is because of all the positive comments they are getting. Or maybe its because of the care and dedicated time the people that posted it put into it.
In my opinion I think its great to have the opportunity to check it out as I was not able to attend the actual event.
Meat is hitting all the talk shows in North America right now. My bet is it has more to do with Brave and Crazy then Las Vegas. I think hes doing a great job of reminding his fans that he is active in Las Vegas but also that something new is coming out.
This is top notch promotion and I'm glad to see it.
As I said the whole music business keeps changing and whether Meat chooses to go down this avenue of releasing all or just certain concerts, that is totally up to him.
But I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the concept

[CarylB]

Well I notice that redpony has left the last at bat youtube videos alone.

I think you will find that he removed more than he left .. many, many more.

Maybe it's because he checks them out and is not happy to leave all the ones of poor quality on there? Imo these DO detract.

My bet is that this promotional tour has most likely been arranged by the PR company acting for SPI Entertainment. Of course it has benefits for Meat as a performer, but his emphasis is imo on the residency rather than an album to be released next year.

As I said the whole music business keeps changing and whether Meat chooses to go down this avenue of releasing all or just certain concerts, that is totally up to him.


Indeed. However, I can only refer you back to what I said about releasing soundboards of previous concerts, and as Meat has said over and over again that he will not tour again but just do residencies, and to date these are through SPI Entertainment who imo will not be releasing anything except just possibly a DVD at some time, I think continually pointing out what other touring artists are doing, is unlikely to change what Meat does .. and that such interesting discussions on what others do and how the music business is changing are more pertinent to another forum .. even if Meat is less likely to read them.

[loaferman61]

Because we're on a Meat Loaf forum, discussing Meat Loaf? ;) Actually, I just wanted to see if you'd bite, but you didn't. I'd have to agree on the Vince Neil issue, though.

Actually I think we started with Springsteen and how it may or may not ever involve Meat Loaf. Meat's shows are always different and his voice changes (uh, I mean "matures"). I just wish whoever owns "The History of Meat Loaf Live" would remaster and release the whole thing on DVD because it blows away the official DVD's by light years.
I really was thinking about Vince Neil because I had just read about his retirement tour and was amused by the idea because the audience sings as much as he does. I think Meat even mentioned it in an interview. Vince often pulls internet videos because if you can catch them before he does IMO he sounds pretty far gone vocally. I would go see them only because Alice Cooper is opening, but between the ticket price and having a legend like Alice open for Neil is a bit much for me.
Some of this could apply to Meat 'tis true but I had just read about the Crue and had them on my mind at the time.

[Evil One]

A) I'd have thought Vince Neil should be opening for Alice Cooper

and

B) I'm pretty sure Meat's said that MTV aren't prepared to pay him an appropriate amount of money to release The History Of Meat Loaf Live. Or Meat's asking for too much, depending on which way you want to look at it. :shrug:

[AndrewG]

A few things spring to mind. Just random thoughts....

1. A cool idea but maybe a bit late in the date for both Springsteen and Meat
2. When I first looked at the Bruce live shows site I could only see the USB wristband at £25. I thought that was for one show. It seemed too steep to me. I see the full shows are far cheaper priced now with a slightly more expensive loseless one available as well. Nice one. I think for the money it's worth it to get a few I would attend if he tours the UK again this summer or next year which is probably more likely.
3. Meat never altered his setlists that much. I'm not sure I'd want multiple shows. Having said that I'd definitely would have had O2 and Manchester from last year if this option was available at those types of prices.
4. Meat to me never seems to have looked back at the stuff he has done as much as Springsteen always has. Perhaps it has something to do with not being the writer of most of the songs. Meat seems more interested in other things to me; acting etc. and yes you could say even coming on this board to be part of the community can be considered another form of entertainment he has given us. Or at least some more info at times. Interacting with Springsteen has always seemed off limits to me even though he plays the down the earth guy well. It's probably the number of fans that's the issue there. In either case both artists have done things differently and the older I get I don't care so much that they are not alike it's actually more interesting I think.
5. The only thing that always worries me when you give fans everything they want they either want more or get bored with what they get. Give them an audio recording; they want a DVD. Give them a DVD; they want a better edited DVD. Give them a better edited DVD; they want a Blu Ray. Give them a Blu Ray.... etc...

[Evil One]

3. Meat never altered his setlists that much. I'm not sure I'd want multiple shows. Having said that I'd definitely would have had O2 and Manchester from last year if this option was available at those types of prices.
IF Meat went down the soundboard route, I'd rather it be done like the Casa De Carne CD, with the best version of each song selected otherwise we could get a show with the best Bat Out Of Hell and a crappy Dead Ringer. As long as all the songs sound roughly the same, does it really matter where they came from?:shrug:

4. Meat to me never seems to have looked back at the stuff he has done.Meat always strikes me as perpetually looking forward and having a 'when something is done, it's done' attitude. That's why when he retires, I think he'll start digging through his collection. He's just been too preoccupied with other projects.

Give them a DVD; they want a better edited DVD.I don't think it's wrong to expect a polished product in exchange for my hard-earned money.

[CarylB]

A few things spring to mind. Just random thoughts....
...............
3. Meat never altered his setlists that much. I'm not sure I'd want multiple shows. Having said that I'd definitely would have had O2 and Manchester from last year if this option was available at those types of prices.
4. Meat to me never seems to have looked back at the stuff he has done as much as Springsteen always has. Perhaps it has something to do with not being the writer of most of the songs. Meat seems more interested in other things to me; acting etc.

Interesting points Andrew. Meat doesn't write most of the songs he sings, although I think his contribution is sometimes undervalued. But I think it's more than Meat being interested in acting .. he sees himself as an actor rather than a singer, and as far as his shows are concerned is lead actor and show designer/director. One reason his set lists vary little on any tour has been the design of a show rather than a setlist of songs. Meat designs and mounts a theatrical production rather than a concert .. lighting, film, sets, positions, movement on stage is all carefully choreographed. Perhaps this goes some way too towards explaining his general aversion to bootlegs, his reluctance to release board tapes. I doubt the lead or director of any stage musical would favour either. Meat's shows are more than the sound; they are pieces of theatrical design. A sound board tape would not capture the whole, nor do most bootlegs.

And yes, Meat is constantly looking forward. His lives in the moment when he's performing .. off stage he is constantly looking for ways to make a current production better, tighter, more impactful .. and always moving forward because he has new visions he wants to bring to life on stage.

5. The only thing that always worries me when you give fans everything they want they either want more or get bored with what they get. Give them an audio recording; they want a DVD. Give them a DVD; they want a better edited DVD. Give them a better edited DVD; they want a Blu Ray. Give them a Blu Ray.... etc...

I agree.

Evil said when Meat retires "I think he'll start digging through his collection. He's just been too preoccupied with other projects." Not sure I agree with this. Yes. he's always pre-occupied with improving and new projects, but I don't see Meat taking to retirement. He is an actor first and foremost .. if he retires from stage performances I think his focus will move forward still ... to film (which he loves) and TV. He's a man of creative vision and drive imo, not a digger through of the past. I think that's what fuels his energy and enthusiasm, his zest and passion ... not thumbing through the past. He still has so much he wants to do :-)

[TheDoode]

I think Meat even mentioned it in an interview. Vince often pulls internet videos because if you can catch them before he does IMO he sounds pretty far gone vocally. I would go see them only because Alice Cooper is opening, but between the ticket price and having a legend like Alice open for Neil is a bit much for me.

Ah, you had me at Alice Cooper. Though why he'd be opening for Vince Neil I have no idea.

Slightly different (?) debate, but here's a clip of The Coop singing Elected at Bloodstock the other year, shot on a camera phone and yet in amazing quality, both visually and audibly. I know this because I know who the video belongs to: I was there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ek6XfAicDc

I think the recording speaks for itself with regards to vocals and 'sounding like the album'. And yep, it's a 30+ year old song. I know this isn't the Alice Cooper forum, but we've mentioned Springsteen and The Crue, so what the hell.

Back with Meat Loaf - my personal view on this one is, yeah, it'd be nice, but I'm not pining for it to happen. If it does, it does. Could be cool.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Interacting with Springsteen has always seemed off limits to me even though he plays the down the earth guy well. It's probably the number of fans that's the issue there.

It's quite the opposite, actually. He doesn't really have an online presence (he's jokingly said, "Real men don't tweet", or something to that effect- I think he's just not that interested), but I have heard many, many stories about him interacting with fans in person, especially in Europe, where he stays in a city for a while; in the States he usually flies home right after shows. People in New Jersey, where he lives, see him quite often.

By all accounts, he is very down-to-earth, and very approachable provided that people are respectful and don't lose their minds- it becomes a safety issue at that point. The night I met him after a show, he called us over to him, not the opposite. But there were only a few of us, and no one was jumping up and down and screaming (as I have seen on other occasions).

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Slightly different (?) debate, but here's a clip of The Coop singing Elected at Bloodstock the other year, shot on a camera phone and yet in amazing quality, both visually and audibly. I know this because I know who the video belongs to: I was there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ek6XfAicDc

I think the recording speaks for itself with regards to vocals and 'sounding like the album'. And yep, it's a 30+ year old song. I know this isn't the Alice Cooper forum, but we've mentioned Springsteen and The Crue, so what the hell.


Wow, that's a phone camera? They're really getting good these days (mine is crappy :lol:)! Looked like a fun show. :-)

I saw the Coop once many moons ago, unfortunately during his "three-piece-suit" phase, though it was still a great show. Billy Squier opened for him and got booed/bottled off the stage after 2 or 3 songs- good times! :lol:

[AndrewG]

It's quite the opposite, actually. He doesn't really have an online presence (he's jokingly said, "Real men don't tweet", or something to that effect- I think he's just not that interested), but I have heard many, many stories about him interacting with fans in person, especially in Europe, where he stays in a city for a while; in the States he usually flies home right after shows. People in New Jersey, where he lives, see him quite often.

By all accounts, he is very down-to-earth, and very approachable provided that people are respectful and don't lose their minds- it becomes a safety issue at that point. The night I met him after a show, he called us over to him, not the opposite. But there were only a few of us, and no one was jumping up and down and screaming (as I have seen on other occasions).

Fair enough, that was ignorance speaking. I only follow 3 artists actively and indeed Bruce is the only one out of those who doesn't tweet, YouTube, forum post and Facebook :-) it's probably that that just gives that impression to me ie "this is a closed group, if you want in you need to be at the right place at the right time or just really lucky."
He's the only one out of those 3 I follow I haven't met but then 2 out of 3 ain't bad. :-)

[Dave]

This is in the Meat forum .. Meat has made his position clear, and has finished touring anyway .. so I'm not sure why yet another thread pointing out that other artists sell or distribute live recordings or happily embrace bootlegs is in it .. unless to point out again that Meat doesn't and somehow find him wanting as a performer.

Or rather than assuming people are implying he is "wanting" as a performer, why not be a little more positive and perhaps assume that people are implying they are "wanting" these recordings available? I am tired of having a dissenting view taken with a negative intonation. I wish these recordings were available, do not think Mr. Loaf is "wanting as a performer" for not releasing them, and am a bit offended that my opinion is being slagged on here once again.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Fair enough, that was ignorance speaking. I only follow 3 artists actively and indeed Bruce is the only one out of those who doesn't tweet, YouTube, forum post and Facebook :-) it's probably that that just gives that impression to me ie "this is a closed group, if you want in you need to be at the right place at the right time or just really lucky."
He's the only one out of those 3 I follow I haven't met but then 2 out of 3 ain't bad. :-)

He does have official Twitter, Facebook and YouTube channels, but it's not he himself who posts. As to the forums, I'm actually kind of glad he doesn't post there, because it could get really scary if he did, and it's scary enough without him a lot of the time. :shock: :lol: AFAIK, a couple of former and at least one current band member are members, though.

Being lucky or in the right place at the right time does help, but is not necessarily required. ;)

A word as to the quality of the downloads- so far I have the second and third Cape Town shows, and they sound pretty good to me, considering the quick turnaround time. There were a few complaints about the sound quality of the first show, but I'm sure they will improve with time.

[renegadeangel]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarylB View Post
This is in the Meat forum .. Meat has made his position clear, and has finished touring anyway .. so I'm not sure why yet another thread pointing out that other artists sell or distribute live recordings or happily embrace bootlegs is in it .. unless to point out again that Meat doesn't and somehow find him wanting as a performer.


I have never found him wanting. Why is that anytime a comment is made it gets back to a dig at Meat? Where does it say anything about that? And where does it say he should do this or he should do that?
He does what he feels is best for his business.
Everything else is chatter and conjecture and sometimes talking points.
To your point a lot of the youtube videos were taken down and I can completely understand why.
I was referring to one or two in particular that capture a sense of what he gave at the last at bat performances.
I am very confused with the attitude that fan videos are evil and should never be seen. The terrible ones with the bad audio and shaky hands absolutely they should be dealt with by the artist however they wish to.
But ones done with obvious respect and care, why some people get so upset over it is astounding.
This is probably why there is interest in more official releases.

[JennaG]

And where does it say he should do this or he should do that?

I'll quote your own words from the opening post...

Thats the sort of thing that everyone should have the opportunity to see. It should be up on his own website.

That looks a lot to me like someone saying what they think Meat should do.

[CarylB]

... am a bit offended that my opinion is being slagged on here once again.

I really don't see why. No-one has "slagged" your opinion that I can see. I know I have not, and you quoted my post. I simply, and without "slagging" anyone, posted my view or responded to comments directed at me, none of which offended me. I am sorry that you have chosen to feel offended. I didn't read your post or posts here, was not addressing you, and do not consider I said anything either personally rude or offensive.


I have never found him wanting. Why is that anytime a comment is made it gets back to a dig at Meat? Where does it say anything about that? And where does it say he should do this or he should do that?

I think Jenna has covered your last question. I said I am not sure why, when Meat has made his position clear and has finished touring, we have yet another thread calling for bootlegs on a Meat forum thread .. unless it is yet again to make the point that he doesn't embrace them. When I say "and wanting as a performer" I mean wanting in the sense that he doesn't do what all the other performers who are exampled do.

[QUOTE}
I am very confused with the attitude that fan videos are evil and should never be seen. The terrible ones with the bad audio and shaky hands absolutely they should be dealt with by the artist however they wish to.
But ones done with obvious respect and care, why some people get so upset over it is astounding. [/QUOTE]

I don't believe I, or indeed anyone here, have/has ever suggested bootlegs were "evil". I think poor ones, and the majority in my view are, should not be on YT. They cannot imo give an accurate refection of the theatrical evening of entertainment Meat has put together, and can attract rude comments which are also both hurtful and annoying to the artist in this case. I do not get "upset", I simply respect Meat's right to take whatever stance he chooses on any bootleg, whether done with care or not, as I think you do. Nor do I think Meat needs to fall in line with any performer who happens to take a different view, particularly at this stage in his career.

If my opinion astounds you I can do little about that. It's my opinion ;) .. but I believe delivered in a way that falls in line with the request at the top of every page. I do think much of this debate falls in line with "Other Rock and Roll Heroes" more than it does the "Everything related to Meat Loaf" though

[renegadeangel]

I'll quote your own words from the opening post...



That looks a lot to me like someone saying what they think Meat should do.

Good point. Never meant it like that though

[EddieJ1984]

Metallica's been doing this for like 10 years, in fact in addition to being able to buy any show from 2004 - Now, they have free downloads of shows from 1982 - 2003, some are bootlegs and some are soundboards.
And when I saw them live in 2009, I did the pre-sale which included a download of my show for free.

[loaferman61]

[QUOTE=TheDoode;600604]
Slightly different (?) debate, but here's a clip of The Coop singing Elected at Bloodstock the other year, shot on a camera phone and yet in amazing quality, both visually and audibly. I know this because I know who the video belongs to: I was there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ek6XfAicDc

I think the recording speaks for itself with regards to vocals and 'sounding like the album'. QUOTE]

We should pitch in for a collection and buy ConcertOne some of those camera phones. Man that is a sharp video.

[TheDoode]

[QUOTE=TheDoode;600604]
Slightly different (?) debate, but here's a clip of The Coop singing Elected at Bloodstock the other year, shot on a camera phone and yet in amazing quality, both visually and audibly. I know this because I know who the video belongs to: I was there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ek6XfAicDc

I think the recording speaks for itself with regards to vocals and 'sounding like the album'. QUOTE]

We should pitch in for a collection and buy ConcertOne some of those camera phones. Man that is a sharp video.

Not bad for a 'crappy camera phone/bootleg', eh? :cool: The sounds pretty great, too!

[Julie in the rv mirror]

The Inside Story of Bruce Springsteen's Official Live Downloads

"Bruce thought that we should really go for the raw feeling of the show," manager Jon Landau tells Rolling Stone:


Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-inside-story-of-bruce-springsteens-official-live-downloads-20140207#ixzz2seX6qMtf

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Metallica's been doing this for like 10 years, in fact in addition to being able to buy any show from 2004 - Now, they have free downloads of shows from 1982 - 2003, some are bootlegs and some are soundboards.
And when I saw them live in 2009, I did the pre-sale which included a download of my show for free.

As to "some are bootlegs and some are soundboards", what to you mean, exactly? A soundboard can still be a bootleg, it just means it's not an official recording (sourced from the soundboard as opposed to an audience recording). An official recording isn't a bootleg, even if recorded with room mics. (I think the term "official bootleg" sounds a little silly- it's an oxymoron.)

[EddieJ1984]

Well I forget when (I wanna say either the black album tour or load) but I remember reading metallica started recording every concert of theirs to soundboard, so at some point it is recordings from them themselves, and then before is jut bootlegs then I guess, even though some are soundboard bootlegs and some aren't, also the covers are usually missing if metallica performed any (like am I evil?)

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Well I forget when (I wanna say either the black album tour or load) but I remember reading metallica started recording every concert of theirs to soundboard, so at some point it is recordings from them themselves, and then before is jut bootlegs then I guess, even though some are soundboard bootlegs and some aren't, also the covers are usually missing if metallica performed any (like am I evil?)

So, are you saying that Metallica officially released fan-made (i.e. bootleg) recordings? If so, that's interesting.

I imagine covers are missing because they would have to pay royalties on those.

[jcmoorehead]

Dream Theater and Marillion are just two more bands that have taken part in the 'Official Bootleg' market, DT had YTSEJam records which has on a number of official bootleg DVDs and albums as well as the demo versions of albums. Marillion offered the concerts from their tours online.

It's a great idea and really cool for the fans but if the artist doesn't want to do it or isn't interested then I'm cool with that, they don't have an obligation.

[loaferman61]

Dream Theater and Marillion are just two more bands that have taken part in the 'Official Bootleg' market, DT had YTSEJam records which has on a number of official bootleg DVDs and albums as well as the demo versions of albums. Marillion offered the concerts from their tours online.

It's a great idea and really cool for the fans but if the artist doesn't want to do it or isn't interested then I'm cool with that, they don't have an obligation.

True. But we can hope. It would be nice to see or hear a Vegas show since Meat has stopped touring. Vegas is a long walk when you're broke and a long swim from Europe as well.

[chairboys]

Dream Theater and Marillion are just two more bands that have taken part in the 'Official Bootleg' market, DT had YTSEJam records which has on a number of official bootleg DVDs and albums as well as the demo versions of albums.

I'm off to see DT at Wembley tomorrow!

[tonyloaf]

Enjoy!

[chairboys]

Enjoy!

cheers I will.
no support band.
the tour is "an evening with...."
3 hrs of pure DT.
can't wait.
then off straight away with mrs. chairboys to devon for a couple of days.
happy! :D

[jcmoorehead]

cheers I will.
no support band.
the tour is "an evening with...."
3 hrs of pure DT.
can't wait.
then off straight away with mrs. chairboys to devon for a couple of days.
happy! :D

Went to go see them in Wolverhampton last night, got the platinum M&G package, absolutely incredible, one of the best concerts I have been to.

[chairboys]

hear, hear.
truly amazing.
hope you had a great M&G.

[EddieJ1984]

Interestingly there was a youtube channel that had tons and tons of metallica live bootlegs up (MilanicaChannel), I guess you could say the warioloaf of metallica lol (but even more content) and they just got shut down :( QPrime (Metallica's management) apparently one of the ones that complained.....that sucks.

I dont get how watching old live footage that fans recorded can hurt a band/singer.

[AndrewG]

Interestingly there was a youtube channel that had tons and tons of metallica live bootlegs up (MilanicaChannel), I guess you could say the warioloaf of metallica lol (but even more content) and they just got shut down :( QPrime (Metallica's management) apparently one of the ones that complained.....that sucks.

I dont get how watching old live footage that fans recorded can hurt a band/singer.

It seems sometimes random publishing houses remove videos as well. I had some tribute videos removed 4-5 years ago by "Stage Three Music" which had been up for a while whilst copyrighted videos just stayed. I really don't get why they trawl through old YouTube vids and do that (if it's not on behalf of instructions of the original artist and/or writer at least) and if that action indeed helps an artist or just upsets fans. :shrug: To me it comes across as simply an action of stretching their muscles: "we can do this so we are going to.". If it really improves their or the artists' income or improves/helps the artists' media footprint I seriously doubt.

[loaferman61]

Interestingly there was a youtube channel that had tons and tons of metallica live bootlegs up (MilanicaChannel), I guess you could say the warioloaf of metallica lol (but even more content) and they just got shut down :( QPrime (Metallica's management) apparently one of the ones that complained.....that sucks.

I dont get how watching old live footage that fans recorded can hurt a band/singer.

Maybe Metallica's lead singer did not think his vocals were up to par, or maybe the video was "crappy" and recorded on a "cell phone". Did the band and backing vocals sound fine?