Bad For Good on Bad Attitude

[misterfive]

Now I have been thinking lately how Meat Loaf songs sounded through out his career. Now I may be wrong but one of the greatest Steinman songs is Bad for Good right?

Now Bad Attitude is my favourite Meat Loaf album and has some of the best songs but the last three (which may differ on some versions) "cheating in your dreams", "sailor to a siren", and "don't leave your mark on me" were takjing me out of the album when I was listening to it today.

So I was thinking to myself what if they switched places trading the "Bad For Good" for "Bat 3: the monsters loose" for "sailor to a siren", "don't leave your mark on me", and "cheating in your dreams" from Bad Attitude.


So Bad Attitude track list would be more like this,

Bad Attitude
Modern Girl
Nowhere Fast
Surf's Up
Piece of the Action
Jumpin the Gun
Bad For Good

So my question to this forum would be what would Bad For Good on Bad Attitude sound like?

I imagine it would have to be electric keyboard with a trio of power chords throughout the song with a grand piano for scaling just for effect. Which would create a sort of Meat Loaf Nowhere Fast meets Steinman's original Bad For Good.

[Wario]

Now I have been thinking lately how Meat Loaf songs sounded through out his career. Now I may be wrong but one of the greatest Steinman songs is Bad for Good right?

Now Bad Attitude is my favourite Meat Loaf album and has some of the best songs but the last three (which may differ on some versions) "cheating in your dreams", "sailor to a siren", and "don't leave your mark on me" were takjing me out of the album when I was listening to it today.

So I was thinking to myself what if they switched places trading the "Bad For Good" for "Bat 3: the monsters loose" for "sailor to a siren", "don't leave your mark on me", and "cheating in your dreams" from Bad Attitude.

So Bad Attitude track list would be more like this,

Bad Attitude
Modern Girl
Nowhere Fast
Surf's Up
Piece of the Action
Jumpin the Gun
Bad For Good

So my question to this forum would be what would Bad For Good on Bad Attitude sound like?

I imagine it would have to be electric keyboard with a trio of power chords throughout the song with a grand piano for scaling just for effect. Which would create a sort of Meat Loaf Nowhere Fast meets Steinman's original Bad For Good.

Freaking sweet thought. May have even been considered

[ricgough]

What would bat 3 tracklist be?

[misterfive]

What would bat 3 tracklist be?


The Monsters Loose
Blind As A Bat
It's All Coming Back To Me Now
Don't Leave Your Mark On Me (similar to neo metal)
Cry Over Me
Cheatin' In Your Dreams (similar to if God Could Talk)
In The Land Of The Pig The Butcher Is King
Monstro
Alive
If God Could Talk
Sailor To A Siren (with a hard rock cover with Brian May on guitar)
If It Ain't Broke Break It
What About Love
Seize The Night
Is Nothing Sacred Anymore (cause I say so)
The Future Just Ain't What It Used To Be
Cry To Heaven

Note that all these songs have the same amount of mix and production value.

[chairboys]

Bad Attitude now has 7 songs and Bat 3 has 17 songs.
If you swop Land of the Pigs for Steinman's two Bad Attitude tracks ( Nowhere and Surf's) then I feel there will be a much much better balance.

[misterfive]

Bad Attitude now has 7 songs and Bat 3 has 17 songs.
If you swop Land of the Pigs for Steinman's two Bad Attitude tracks ( Nowhere and Surf's) then I feel there will be a much much better balance.

Nah Bad Attitude would do it better than Bat 3.

[renegadeangel]

Nah Bad Attitude would do it better than Bat 3.


I think the only reason Meat did BFG at all was he was desperate for a Steinman song for BAT 3 and knew it would go over well with the fans. I think BAD ATTITUDE with the addition of the jacobs/Durkee song WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD would have been even better.

[misterfive]

I am just saying that if Bad Attitude used Bad For Good it would be the best version ever!

[The Flying Mouse]

Now Bad Attitude is my favourite Meat Loaf album and has some of the best songs but the last three (which may differ on some versions) "cheating in your dreams", "sailor to a siren", and "don't leave your mark on me" were takjing me out of the album when I was listening to it today.


:twisted: Really? :shock:
I think those three songs are great..
My favourite on the album though is Piece Of The Action :metal:

I must say, I think it's pretty weird that Bad Attitude is your favourite album, but you don't like a 3rd of the material :lol:

To each his own though :shrug:

[Cherry.Loaf]

Personally I love Bad attitude in it's entirety especially sailor to a Siren, Jumping the gun and Modern girl so couldn't imagine it any different.

[misterfive]

:twisted: Really? :shock:
I think those three songs are great..
My favourite on the album though is Piece Of The Action :metal:

I must say, I think it's pretty weird that Bad Attitude is your favourite album, but you don't like a 3rd of the material :lol:

To each his own though :shrug:

My favourite song is Bad Attitude cause its Meat's first real Male rocker duet next to Rock n' Roll Mercenaries that doesn't involve devout love or hot sex. The whole album is platinum material but you must admit that the last three needed some better production so by switching those with bad for good I think it would be better for both Bat 3 and Bad Attitude.

[renegadeangel]

My favourite song is Bad Attitude cause its Meat's first real Male rocker duet next to Rock n' Roll Mercenaries that doesn't involve devout love or hot sex. The whole album is platinum material but you must admit that the last three needed some better production so by switching those with bad for good I think it would be better for both Bat 3 and Bad Attitude.


Don't know about that. BFG is a good song but it might seem a bit out of place here. But in fairness it would have made the album a bit more interesting and probably would have picked up the sales a bit. Jumpin the gun could definitely go.

[Elijah's way]

I wish BFG was never recorded by Meat. IMO it's the worst Steinman song ever and one of the worst song's of all time.

[chairboys]

I wish BFG was never recorded by Meat. IMO it's the worst Steinman song ever and one of the worst song's of all time.

Worst ever? It's a bloody good worst ever!!

[misterfive]

Jumpin the gun could definitely go.

Pppft no way Jumpin the Gun is awesome.

[misterfive]

I wish BFG was never recorded by Meat. IMO it's the worst Steinman song ever and one of the worst song's of all time.

How so?

[Paul Richardson]

I wish BFG was never recorded by Meat. IMO it's the worst Steinman song ever and one of the worst song's of all time.

Surely not worse than Stark Raving Love or Dance In My Pants ? :roll:

[misterfive]

Surely not worse than Stark Raving Love or Dance In My Pants ? :roll:

What's wrong with Dance in my pants? And what is wrong with Stark Raving Love?! Both are great songs.

[Elijah's way]

How so?

I have no answer for this

[Elijah's way]

Surely not worse than Stark Raving Love or Dance In My Pants ? :roll:

I can't answer this either because I've never heard those 2 songs :roll:

[Paul Richardson]

What's wrong with Dance in my pants? And what is wrong with Stark Raving Love?! Both are great songs.

Dance In My Pants is lyrically clever but so cheesy and too obvious in trying to be another Paradise. Stark Raving Love sounds like two or three songs cobbled together and the Lost Boys & Golden Girls verse is just bizarre.

[Paul Richardson]

I can't answer this either because I've never heard those 2 songs :roll:

You Tube is your friend...

[RSG]

I like the idea of a 1984 'Bad Attitude' track list as

Side A

Bad Attitude
Modern Girl
Nowhere's Fast
Surf's Up
Teenager In Love

Side B
Piece Of The Action
Jumpin' The Gun
Don't Leave Your Mark On Me
Cheatin' In Your Dreams

EP

Bad For Good
Sailor To A Siren

[The Flying Mouse]

Stark Raving Love sounds like two or three songs cobbled together and the Lost Boys & Golden Girls verse is just bizarre.

:twisted: I like SRL, but I agree that it could do without the LB&GG section.

[misterfive]

Dance In My Pants is lyrically clever but so cheesy and too obvious in trying to be another Paradise. Stark Raving Love sounds like two or three songs cobbled together and the Lost Boys & Golden Girls verse is just bizarre.

Dance in my Pants I consider to be a homage to Paradise but I believe if Dance in my pants was in Bat Out Of Hell and Paradise was in Bad for Good then you'd be saying the opposite.

And stark raving love was just connecting it with lost boys and golden girls, and you have to admit it is a pretty good song besides its bizzare nature.

[misterfive]

I like the idea of a 1984 'Bad Attitude' track list as

Side A

Bad Attitude
Modern Girl
Nowhere's Fast
Surf's Up
Teenager In Love

Side B
Piece Of The Action
Jumpin' The Gun
Don't Leave Your Mark On Me
Cheatin' In Your Dreams

EP

Bad For Good
Sailor To A Siren

Sometimes I wonder what It Just Won't Quit would be like in Blind Before You Stop?

[Paul Richardson]

I believe if Dance in my pants was in Bat Out Of Hell and Paradise was in Bad for Good then you'd be saying the opposite.

How do you know that ? Actually I wouldn't - Paradise is a far superior song.

And stark raving love was just connecting it with lost boys and golden girls, and you have to admit it is a pretty good song besides its bizarre nature.

No, as I said I think its bizarre, so to me its not a good song.

[ricgough]

I can't answer this either because I've never heard those 2 songs :roll:

Thay are on Steinman's 1981 "bad for good" album which grew out of the Bat 1 sequel fiasco.

Wario will confirm this but I think "Dance in my pants" was done live in the late '80's by Meat but never recorded unlike every other track on there except stark raving love.

I have heard it said many times down the years that Meat doesn't like these songs. I don't feel they are Steinmans best personally, but love the bad for good album overall - basically because of the way it sounds. Think Bat 1 just with weaker vocals.

Bad for good (Bat 3)
Lost boys and golden girls (Bat 2)
Love,death and an american guitar (Wasted Youth on Bat 2)
Stark Raving love (Unreleased by Meat)
Out of the frying pan (and into the fire) (Bat 2)
Surf's Up (Bad attitude)
Dance in my pants (Unreleased by Meat)
Left in the dark (welcome to the neighbourhood)
Rock ' n roll dreams come through (Bat 2)
The Storm - instrumental (partly used on Bat 3 "sieze the night" intro)

To me, Stark raving love was basically several good but ultimately incongruous ideas with the "lost boys" motif added as a refrain to provide context within the album as a whole. Not dissimilar in style and function within the track-list as "all revved up" on Bat 1.

Dance in my pants appeared to be a less successful attempt to write another "paradise" though not as refined conceptually, musically or lyrically.

To be fair to Jim though - knowing how he writes and the fact he had to come up with songs for both Bad for good and Deadringer in a relatively short period of time, there were bound to be a couple of "dogs" in there.

What would have been a more interesting thread would have been how to make one truly great album from Bad for Good AND Deadringer - with the Bad for Good (Steinman, Rundgren etc...) production/sound and Meat's Vocals.

One album from the above (BFG) songs plus:

Peel out
Gonna love her for both of us
More than you deserve
Kill you if you don't come back
Read 'em and Weep
Nocturnal pleasures
Deadringer for love
Everything is permitted

.... from deadringer.


Mine would be:

1 ) Bad for good
2 ) Rock 'n' roll dreams
3 ) Lost boys and golden girls
4 ) Gonna love her for both of us
5 ) Read 'em and weep
5 ) Love, death and an american guitar
6 ) Out of the frying pan (and into the fire)
7 ) Surf's up
8 ) I'll Kill you if you don't come back
9 ) Dead ringer for love
10) Left in the dark

I also think that would have sold more than both "BFG" and "DR" eventually did combined. The tracks left over could have maybe then gone with "Midnight at the lost and found", some sort of "How do you bury the skull of your country/let the revels begin" arrangement and perhaps a "river deep, mountain high" cover on a third album which would also have been more successful than MATLAF as it eventually stood.

[ricgough]

.......

For example:

Let the revels begin (how do you bury the skull of your country)
Peel out
Everything is permitted
Stark raving love
Nocturnal pleasures
Midnight at the lost and found (maybe?)
More than you deserve
River deep, mountain high (cover)
Dance in my pants
Making love out of nothing at all
The storm


Bat 2 could have been

Anything for love
Life is a lemon and I want my money back
It just won't Quit
I've been dreaming up a storm lately
It's all coming back to me now
Original sin
Wasted youth
Good girls go to heaven (bad girls go everywhere)
Back into Hell
Objects in the rear view mirror (may appear closer than they are)


Then you could still have had something along the lines of a 4th album with versions of:

A Kiss is a terrible thing to waste
It hurts only when I feel (if it ain't broke, break it)
Cry to heaven
In the land of the pig (the butcher is king)
More
Tonight is what it means to be young
Braver than we are (duet)
Loving you is a dirty job (but somebody's got to do it)
Seize the night
The future just aint what it used to be

Then maybe, just maybe....

Renegade angel (which Jim said in a blog once he was going to complete.... "one day" !!!!)

Along with Bat 1 in its original form (but I'd like to hear that instrumentally re-recorded with the original vocal at it's proper speed) that would be 50 tracks, 5 albums and probably a great deal more worldwide profile, consistent success and money in the bank for both Jim and Meat (IMHO). Spanning 5 decades there would still have been plenty of opportunity for other projects too.

Saying that though, they both did pretty okay in reality - though I do think the above would make the greatest box-set ever !!!!

Perhaps it is a project for Meat and Jim once he's retired from touring? Call it "Bat out of Hell - the saga" box set! ;)

[Evil Ernie]

So this has turned into a mix tape thread?

IMO Bad Attitude is the best non Steinman Meat album (even with the 2 songs). STAS is one of my favorite ML tracks of all time. I can't imagine it any different.

In fact the only album that wish ML could re-do is TMIL.... for obvious reasons. And even that was a pretty good album, we just bitch about because it's what what it could have been.

However if I had to choose one track for him to re-do, it would be BFG. As much as I love Brian May, even he couldn't save that arrangement.

Then maybe, just maybe....

Renegade angel (which Jim said in a blog once he was going to complete.... "one day" !!!!)

Sorry, but wasn't 'Renegade Angel' the album which became 'Bad For Good'? Unless he means re-recording the same tracks with ML on vocals, which I would LOVE. But I doubt that would ever happen.

Part of the reason why the vocal harmonies on that album were so developed has to be because they spent so much time waiting for ML to recover. They must have just kept on working on it til they got sick. I personally think that, besides 'Tanz Der Vampire', BFG is Jim's best work.

[misterfive]

True Bad Attitude is a kickass album but I am talking about the style he was using the time the album came out so keep that in mind for any mix ideas.

[ricgough]

So this has turned into a mix tape thread?

IMO Bad Attitude is the best non Steinman Meat album (even with the 2 songs). STAS is one of my favorite ML tracks of all time. I can't imagine it any different.

In fact the only album that wish ML could re-do is TMIL.... for obvious reasons. And even that was a pretty good album, we just bitch about because it's what what it could have been.

However if I had to choose one track for him to re-do, it would be BFG. As much as I love Brian May, even he couldn't save that arrangement.



Sorry, but wasn't 'Renegade Angel' the album which became 'Bad For Good'? Unless he means re-recording the same tracks with ML on vocals, which I would LOVE. But I doubt that would ever happen.

Part of the reason why the vocal harmonies on that album were so developed has to be because they spent so much time waiting for ML to recover. They must have just kept on working on it til they got sick. I personally think that, besides 'Tanz Der Vampire', BFG is Jim's best work.

I think the "Renegade Angel" Jim was referring to was a song. The inference was that it would have been the title track and was part completed when his manuscripts were stolen. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the ideas he was working on for the song originally have been re-used elsewhere in a different format since however, and to that end I'm not holding my breath.

I did once hear/read that there are some of meats vocals on the harmony tracks on BFG, but whether it is true or not I've no idea and don't have sleeve notes to hand. I also remember Meat saying that certain songs were "traded" between the two of them during the production of BFG/DR, so whether that is the case for all of the tracks on BFG I very much doubt.

As for the mix-tape, I believe the modern equivalent is a "playlist" - and what a playlist!!!!. I wouldn't necessarily like Meat to re-record those albums per-se, but perhaps in the future it might be possible to see something similar to the Freddie Mercury/Monseraat Caballe "barcelona" album having the instrumental pretty faithfully re-recorded in terms of arrangement with the original vocal tracks, - basically to eliminate the 80's synth and other percieved weaknesses in favour of full orchestra, choir and a much richer sound; or in this case to bring them up to more modern expectations in terms of sound quality, clarity etc... and give them a new lease of life for another 30 or 40 years, ideally reaching new audiences. I think Bat 2 may sound as dated as Bat 1 by comparison to "current" trends in future decades.

I'm right with you on wanting to see Bat 3 re-recorded by Meat in a fashion more in-keeping with Jim's original arrangements - even "land of the pig" takes on a very different characteristic compared to the demo's - it feels "dumbed down" in it's released form - though I accept I wouldn't think that if I hadn't heard the demo. I do think that even though it might be difficult for those concerned, the product of the negotiative process between Meat and Jim on production matters really seems to bear fruit in the eventual, finished work.

I guess the above is just what I would have liked to see - and what could have been if things had happened slightly differently.

I agree that Bad Attitude is overall the best non Jim album, with WTTN and HCTB tying second place. I love that version of "surf's up" and prefer it even to the BFG version, but don't think much of that particular interpretation of "nowhere fast" and feel the Fire inc one is better. I really like "bad attitude", "Modern Girl" and think "Piece of the action" could be one of my all-time favourite non-Jim Meat compositions - a little bit like how Wario feels about "masculine". Live versions of it were scintillating. Didn't Paul Jacobs originally work for Jim on the "Neverland" workshops?

As far as Jim's "best" work. Mine would be Bat, Bat 2, TDV, BFG and Pandora's box in that order, but then I accept that is a subjective viewpoint. I also liked the Wuthering heights recordings hugely.

[samurai7]

Didn't Paul Jacobs work with Jim on the "neverland" workshops?

Yes, and of course he replaced Jimmy in the touring band when he went off the road to wrote the follow up to Bat, which has been pointed out became Bad For Good.

[renegadeangel]

Yes, and of course he replaced Jimmy in the touring band when he went off the road to wrote the follow up to Bat, which has been pointed out became Bad For Good.

Paul Jacobs is a very underrated artist. Other than Jim he has written by far the best songs that Meat has done. Paul I feel has a pretty good handle on Jim's style as he was also the muscial director for Neverland and it shows in the production of BAD ATTITUDE.

[Evil Ernie]

I'm right with you on wanting to see Bat 3 re-recorded by Meat in a fashion more in-keeping with Jim's original arrangements - even "land of the pig" takes on a very different characteristic compared to the demo's - it feels "dumbed down" in it's released form - though I accept I wouldn't think that if I hadn't heard the demo.

Which demo? There were two. One was different, the other almost exactly the same. Both Jim arrangements.

2Ymjj7wQ5dY

I cant find a video of the second version, but it should be available here:

http://meatloafbootlegexperience.blogspot.ca/2010/10/jim-steinman-batman-musical.html

[ricgough]

I didn't realise the second (other) one was a Jim arrangement - I meant the one in the video above - I like the different phrase-structure on the verse better - feels a bit more agressive and sinister.

I had heard the other one (on the booleg link) but thought it was Kasim singing on a TMIL demo, but then it was a long time ago especially when you get to my age :roll:.