Meat's Vocal Technique.

[TheDoode]

Just some random musings brought on by this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3EhTlAa0k&feature=player_embedded) that Evil One posted in another thread. Like most singers Meat's voice has changed over the span of his career, but there seems to be a definite point where his technique changed too.

I was just wondering if anyone knows if it was a conscious decision, or if Meat's voice just evolved that way? The video above is pretty close, vocally, to the record. Started me thinking about the delivery. When we get to Bat II his vocals are lower but richer, more mature. But at some point after that, and before CHSIB, it sounds like his technique/delivery changed, and his voice took on different characteristics to the classic Meat Loaf sound. What do you guys think?

Doode. :cool:

[carole]

I've noticed Meat's voice seems to have matured and developed over the years. I love the way he sounds now.

Carole

[renegadeangel]

I saw Meat sing HOME BY NOW in 1999 and couldn't believe that he sounded like he did on DEADRINGER. That was the first song of the night and as the night progressed he sounded more like himself as he sang more.
My opinion is that Meat will always have some sort of tour prior to going into a studio situation to get his voice where he wants it. I think too much of a lay off doesn't do him any good at all. On his current tour, he is actually getting better vocally as the tour progresses.
I think that where his voice is now is where he is most comfortable singing. His best vocal performance, as far as range and pitch would have to be MODERN GIRL. I have yet to hear a vocal performance top that one on record.
I know that BAT 2 was great vocally, but everytime I hear MODERN GIRL I can't help turning it up and just going along for the ride.

[Evil One]

I think Meat's change in style has a lot to do with age and the various illnesses and operations he's had taking their toll. Meat has to put much more effort in now to get the same result he would 'easily' have got years ago. I think it is this effort that others would call passion. :shrug:

[nikox1]

every singers voice changes over the years, look at Elvis, when he hit 36 - 40 years of age, it became more powerful/soulful. where before it was very raw.
the list of singers go on and on. Meat has a unique style, always had imo.
but at 63 years of age hes voice as it stands is fantastic,, really and truly its fantastic. most singers dont bother trying to improve at that age? you could even say that about singers in there 40,s to be fair. but Meat is still trying to be better than the last show. down the years nobody has been able to sing Jims songs like Meat [ its not even up for debate imo ]. and boy are those songs F**king hard to sing:lol:

[Evil One]

down the years nobody has been able to sing Jims songs like Meat [ its not even up for debate imo ].There was Steve Barton, but that didn't end particularly well. :bleh:

[Monstro]

I think the different vocal coaches have left their mark as well

[nikox1]

There was Steve Barton, but that didn't end particularly well. :bleh:

enough said,,,

[TheDoode]

All interesting points - warming up into songs, I get that. Illnesses I guess that could be a big strain on the voice, depending on the illness. I always thought that IF Meat struggled, it seemed to be kind of psycologically though. I never considered vocal coaches - that's really pretty interesting. The only thing I don't really buy is the age thing. I guess it affects everyone in defferent ways, but look at Sammy Hagar - sounds almost the same today that he did twenty years ago (I'm way too lazy to add youtube links, but you can find them).

[nikox1]

All interesting points - warming up into songs, I get that. Illnesses I guess that could be a big strain on the voice, depending on the illness. I always thought that IF Meat struggled, it seemed to be kind of psycologically though. I never considered vocal coaches - that's really pretty interesting. The only thing I don't really buy is the age thing. I guess it affects everyone in defferent ways, but look at Sammy Hagar - sounds almost the same today that he did twenty years ago (I'm way too lazy to add youtube links, but you can find them).

well age will change a persons voice imo, Sammy Hagar could be one in a million it has not? you know what im saying? its hard to know i guess

[TheDoode]

....and Barry Manilow, man. Not that I'd know. Of course.

[AndrewG]

Post this on the Jimsteinman forum and you will be sure to get some interesting remarks over Meat's current voice. I actually think those comments borderline on :nuts: and I'm not sure what people expect how someone should sound 34 years after the debut album. Exactly the same as at 30? Give me and Meat a break for Goodness sake.

The '93 live voice I personally loved and got me hooked. It was quite deep and filled with more passion than on the Bat 2 album I think.

Personally I think he sounds pretty spectacular in the studio and live now. Sure there is enhancement in the studio but then they do that with everyone and they will record the song until everything sounds as good as time permits. They did that in 77 and they sure as hell do that now. Why else would you employ several sound engineers? They are simply doing their job. Going by Meat's live voice in December I'm pretty sure most of what you hear is authentic on HCTB. Autotune (even if it was used) will not save a shit vocal. As much as several aspects of HCTB disappointment me the vocals are incredible.

Meat's voice has matured pretty well and although there have been some vocal problems on some of the recent tours back in December I was overwhelmed with how well he sounded and how much vocal power he had and how many risks he took especially during Bat at Wembley, absolutely insane. VERY impressive for anyone, let alone someone at 63.

Although the vocal coaches have definitely helped I also think a lot of Meat's vocal capabilities come from his passion and perhaps heart if you want to call it that. Going by the posts on this forum alone he was mostly happy and took such a positive attitude towards the shows. It paid off. A triumph.

[Wario]

His posture has also changed.

I think he doesnt sing to 100% hit the notes, but cares far more about the charisma, which is 10x important

[stretch37]

His posture has also changed.

I think he doesnt sing to 100% hit the notes, but cares far more about the charisma, which is 10x important

Yah, exactly. And when he finds the charisma or whatever you want to call it, he tends to hit notes rather well. Even if its not the studio note, he makes it sound good.

[CarylB]

I think he doesnt sing to 100% hit the notes, but cares far more about the charisma, which is 10x important

Yes, he's an actor who sets out to give his audience the best show he can .. I'd probably say he cares about the performance .. charisma is what he exudes just by coming on stage ;) .. but basically I agree.

Also I think one should never confuse effort with the passion those of us who love his shows describe. Passion is always in his delivery, on stage or in the studio, and is what makes the songs he sings resonate so powerfully, make such an emotional connection. It's his trademark and ever-present.

As to effort .. he always puts huge effort into a performance, and during the tour he sufered the vcal cyst, yes, it was clear he was also putting in huge extra effort to deliver the songs. The remarkable and wonderful thing this tour is the seeming ease with which he gives an outstanding vocal performance.

He says he still has the same range, and we've heard it :-) He has said several times they didn't use autotune on HCTB, and that his vocals are pretty much as he sang, and many concerts since the album was released give me no reason to doubt that in any way. I think you'd expect most performers' voices to subtly change over a long career, also often their style. Meat was a self-taught singer, so wouldn't you expect someone like that, who is constantly striving to improve as he does, to change and develop over time?

I find it hard to compare his live performances over the decades, and comparing albums may not give the truest picture because different sound technicians at different stages may have tended to make subtle changes to the sound, and even the songs themselves can alter one's perceptions. I remember when I first heard CHSIB my over all impression was that Meat's voice was so rich and mellow .. but many of the songs seemed less about youthful angst and more from a man who'd been round the block of love a few times.

Now with HCTB what you hear on the album is what you get live, and that's terrific vocals. The here and now may well have changed over time .. but it's also awesome ;)

Caryl

[Julie in the rv mirror]

I'm not sure what people expect how someone should sound 34 years after the debut album. Exactly the same as at 30? Give me and Meat a break for Goodness sake.


1975:

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2006:

D_rYoyV3gWU


OK, so it's only 31 years, :twisted: but I hear very little difference in the vocals.

[Sarge]

I like the current sound of his voice very much but I like his singing style of the late 1980s and early 1990s better than his current one. It just appeared more relaxed, confident, energetic and passionate to me. He sometimes reminded me of performers like James Brown then. Now I have the feeling as if the technique outweighs everything else at times. He seems to intensely concentrate on what he does - I'm not saying that he didn't do that in the past but it wasn't that apparent. There was a certain coolness and easiness (in spite of the strength and energy he put in his live shows) that was conveyed via his singing that I missed on recent performances (not on all of them though).

OK, so it's only 31 years, :twisted: but I hear very little difference in the vocals.

I don't know that many older singers who still sound the way they did when they were young. Some people might be less / more prone to vocal changes or problems than others. I suspect it doesn't only depend on one's actual age but also on one's mood, whether one feels relaxed or stressed, physical constitution and lifestyle. Regularly overstraining your voice or smoking, for example, can make it harder to preserve your original voice. I noticed that Carole King still sounds pretty much like 30 years ago (albeit her voice is a little hoarse sometimes), while other singers like Joni Mitchell or Marianne Faithfull have very different voices now. I think that Marianne Faithfull sounds more interesting now than she did in the 1960s. I like that raspy voice. Such voices tell stories on their own, without being dependent on certain lyrics.

I think the different vocal coaches have left their mark as well

I neither know how many coaches he has had so far nor anything about their methods but I think you made an interesting point here. Everybody have their own ways of working, concepts and things they consider important, so that might influence / change a singer's style to a certain degree.

Besides, if I remember it correctly, Meat several times mentioned sinus problems. Maybe that might have an impact, too. :??:

[stretch37]

I don't think its age that is changing Meat's voice. I think as Meat has aged, he has decided to change the delivery. I'm sure he could sing in the same style he did 15 or 20 years ago, but why would Meat do it that way, when he likes his new approach better?

i think he proves that here,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sKOzZAQC58

[robgomm]

I think you're all missing a huge point here guys, and thats that his songs are SO hard to sing! I would say they are harder than almost anyone else in the history of music. When I sing take that or the younger solo artists of todays songs, i can sing through pretty much an enitre concerts worth. If I try to sing through a Meat Loaf album or concert, I will last maybe 4 or 5 songs until my voice gives out.

It might just be my opinion but Meat sings harder songs than anyone I have ever heard in the music industry, past or present. This, coupled with the fact that the songs are so long, and he was doing shows every other night on tour over the years, do affect the voice. I've even noticed it with my own voice, I can't always sing Meat Loaf songs like I used to simply because i've damamged my voice in the past by singing them.

Having said that Meat has adpated his voice brilliantly over the years, and having been to the current tour, I can't disbelieve Meat when he says that HCTB was his vocals more or less untouched. In fact i'd go far as to say that on the current tour his vocals are as close to the album as i've heard in many a year. And I really love Meats voice right now, and i'm so happy that he's happy with it too.

[TheDoode]

Some really good points - I tend to agree with a lot of what Sarge wrote. Andrew and Caryl's posts were ... interesting ... if not a little defensive. Which isn't a bad thing. But I just want to make it clear that I wasn't attacking Meat's vocals at all, man, I'm just genuinly curious. Not being a singer (at all) it's kind of cool to work out how a voice might change, why it changes, and how different singers alter their delivery or technique in different situations or eras of their careers. As for Meat - listen to Prize Fight Lover. I'd put that, vocally, right up there with Frying Pan.

Well, almost. ;)

Doode.

P.S. Stretch. If it didn't knacker his throat I'd love to hear that delivery every time. That's a very cool clip, man.

[CarylB]

Andrew and Caryl's posts were ... interesting ... if not a little defensive. Which isn't a bad thing.


Defensive because? .. we acknowledged some changes, some vocal problems he has had, put forward out thinking, and celebrated how well he's singing right now? Interesting.

You say "As for Meat - listen to Prize Fight Lover. I'd put that, vocally, right up there with Frying Pan." .. I guess you saved yourself from being defensive by adding "Well, almost. ;)" .. :lol: But there's no need to make it clear you weren't attacking Meat's voice .. I never thought you were ...

Caryl

[TheDoode]

Okay, that's cool; maybe I misread ;) But by pointing out that I love PFL I wasn't being defensive, I was just pointing out that I love PFL. I made the point about not attacking Meat's voice because I thought it may have prompted you and Andrew to reply defensively, and I really wasn't aiming to turn this into a 'rate Meat's voice' thread. So that's why I felt the need to make it clear. ;)

Doode.

[CarylB]

But by pointing out that I love PFL I wasn't being defensive, I was just pointing out that I love PFL.


Yes, you put PFL vocally right up there with Frying Pan. And Andrew and I were pointing out that we believe him to be in fantastic voice right now, so by the same token it seems we too were just posting our own musings on the thread :-)

Caryl

[TheDoode]

Gah, you got me! It was early, what can I say! =)

D.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

I don't know that many older singers who still sound the way they did when they were young. Some people might be less / more prone to vocal changes or problems than others. I suspect it doesn't only depend on one's actual age but also on one's mood, whether one feels relaxed or stressed, physical constitution and lifestyle. Regularly overstraining your voice or smoking, for example, can make it harder to preserve your original voice. I noticed that Carole King still sounds pretty much like 30 years ago (albeit her voice is a little hoarse sometimes), while other singers like Joni Mitchell or Marianne Faithfull have very different voices now. I think that Marianne Faithfull sounds more interesting now than she did in the 1960s. I like that raspy voice. Such voices tell stories on their own, without being dependent on certain lyrics.


Of course, there are many factors involved; I was just trying to point out that it's not due only to age, that it is possible for an older singer to sound nearly the same as they did when they were young. You just elaborated on that for me. ;)

I think many singers, rock singers especially, might sing the "wrong" way when they are young, and that has to be very straining on the voice. Sometimes, I also like the changes in the voice; sometimes, not so much.

I also agree that a singer doesn't need to have the "best" voice to convey emotion or be an interesting singer. There are many well-known singers I can think of that probably wouldn't have made it past the audition stage on American Idol. And, I think that's a good thing. ;)

[PanicLord]

I think you're all missing a huge point here guys, and thats that his songs are SO hard to sing! I would say they are harder than almost anyone else in the history of music. When I sing take that or the younger solo artists of todays songs, i can sing through pretty much an enitre concerts worth. If I try to sing through a Meat Loaf album or concert, I will last maybe 4 or 5 songs until my voice gives out.

It might just be my opinion but Meat sings harder songs than anyone I have ever heard in the music industry, past or present. This, coupled with the fact that the songs are so long, and he was doing shows every other night on tour over the years, do affect the voice. I've even noticed it with my own voice, I can't always sing Meat Loaf songs like I used to simply because i've damamged my voice in the past by singing them.

Having said that Meat has adpated his voice brilliantly over the years, and having been to the current tour, I can't disbelieve Meat when he says that HCTB was his vocals more or less untouched. In fact i'd go far as to say that on the current tour his vocals are as close to the album as i've heard in many a year. And I really love Meats voice right now, and i'm so happy that he's happy with it too.


I totally agree - you really did take the words right out of my... um... fingers!

Certainly they must be some of the hardest male vocals, as they tend to be very high, very long, very dramatic, very powerful, with few decent pauses to recover in the middle!

I also find I can only sing a small number of Meat songs in a row, whereas most other artists I can sing all day.

Meat's voice is awesome on HCTB, and he throws a whole lot of attack into it, which makes it sound superbly powerful and charismatic.

[meatfanforlife]

@Rob only 4 or 5 songs? Haha Jk m8

I am working on a small meat loaf cover album for one of my classes, and let me tell you...its not bloody easy. I have to do a song a day, because my voice gives out if I try to do say BOOH, and then follow it up with a live rendition of AFL.

My favorite song to sing now is actually BOOH, the live version from MSO 04. Because of the power and how it challenges my vocals. I can upload a version to youtube if anyone is interested.

[Monstro]

You lot don't know what you're talking about, after several whiskey's I'm a rock god, I can sing Meat songs for hours and all in tune, just ask my neighbours :D

[renegadeangel]

I don't think its fair to compare Meat to someone like Peter Frampton as far as vocal performances go over the years. Meat puts far more into it then anyone I've ever seen. So for sure his voice has changed over the years but I still stand by what I think...
Meat gets better the more he tours. His voice gets stronger and he sounds better. Maybe its the comfort of the stage or the energy of the audience. Don't know. But he definitely gets better.
I think the BAT 3 tour was demanding moreso than any other because of the emotional strain of having people upset with Steinman not being involved and the general character assisination that was taking place. Guilty until proven innocent. Hardly fair but again maybe Meat took it too heart and it affected his vocal performance.

[stretch37]

I don't think its fair to compare Meat to someone like Peter Frampton as far as vocal performances go over the years. Meat puts far more into it then anyone I've ever seen. So for sure his voice has changed over the years but I still stand by what I think...
Meat gets better the more he tours. His voice gets stronger and he sounds better. Maybe its the comfort of the stage or the energy of the audience. Don't know. But he definitely gets better.
I think the BAT 3 tour was demanding moreso than any other because of the emotional strain of having people upset with Steinman not being involved and the general character assisination that was taking place. Guilty until proven innocent. Hardly fair but again maybe Meat took it too heart and it affected his vocal performance.

well said, yeah i think like 90% of it has to do with the complexity surrounding all aspects of that album, and the politics, and hurt feelings. Your right, we all know how much it effected Meat. I will never believe or say "meat lost his voice, and has either not regained it, or has now regained it", and i dislike when people say either of those things. Because its bullshit. He has never lost anything, he's gone through ups and downs and when he builds himself up, he's invincible. This time, with HCTB still being pushed and a new album in the works, Meat performing with such stamina and enthusiasm and sounding and looking like a man in his 40's (if you've seen it live, you know what I speak of)....This is a time of celebration and i hope we can all celebrate on these forums with Meat! No, we don't all get exactly what we envisioned, song-wise or style-wise...but you cannot deny that this is special and we should enjoy it and relish in it while it lasts, party on! :D Can't wait for March 18/19 :cool:

[Evil One]

well said, yeah i think like 90% of it has to do with the complexity surrounding all aspects of that album, and the politics, and hurt feelings.Or it could possibly be due to a cyst in his throat that may have been totally unrelated to the Bat 3 bullshit. :shrug:

[stretch37]

Or it could possibly be due to a cyst in his throat that may have been totally unrelated to the Bat 3 bullshit. :shrug:

ya that likely had something to do with it. But a few months earlier during that same tour, his voice rocked. But overall, wasn't as good as previous tours. I think that was caused by stress and negativity, could be wrong tho who knows.

[Devil's Son]

Like most singers Meat's voice has changed over the span of his career, but there seems to be a definite point where his technique changed too.

it changed and it is interesting, to me. I like the different eras but
you may kill me for the following words.
i don't like his technique on hctb - sorry. except in just three songs: los angeloser, song of madness and prize fight lover which isn't on the cd.

[TheDoode]

That's interesting, man. I think that on PFL his delivery is way more Bat II like. At least, it is for a vocally uneducated, non vocalist listener (i.e. me).

[stretch37]

That's interesting, man. I think that on PFL his delivery is way more Bat II like. At least, it is for a vocally uneducated, non vocalist listener (i.e. me).

first time i heard PFL two things popped into my head. Bat II and Jim Steinman. I dont know why, but i definitely enjoyed the connection. Here's hoping for more of that or something similarly exciting on HIAH

[duke knooby]

first time i heard PFL one thing popped into my mind... springsteen

[TheDoode]

I don't get the Springsteen thing at all. I don't really think PFL sounds like anything other than Meat Loaf (to me at least).

[renegadeangel]

I don't get the Springsteen thing at all. I don't really think PFL sounds like anything other than Meat Loaf (to me at least).


Meat said once in an interview that he loved BORN TO RUN. We all pay homage to what we find the most interested, whether we mean to or not. Compare Meats version to Rick Brantley's.
Meat basically took a song and revved it up and gave it a highway to run.
Its a great driving song.

[CarylB]

ya that likely had something to do with it. But a few months earlier during that same tour, his voice rocked. But overall, wasn't as good as previous tours. I think that was caused by stress and negativity, could be wrong tho who knows.

Vocal lesions like nodules, polyps, cysts etc are chronic mucosal lesions and a cumulative process. Singers on tour are often treated by doctors to enable them to deliver the performances they are comitted to, and these treatments frequently mask the condition for some time. After a break the singer can often return to performing with renewed vocal vigour, and many singers will be able to give strong performances for many years despite the underlying problem; lack of sleep when touring, jetlag, erratic eating, the length of shows (most vocalists are advised to limit their singing to an hour and a half a day) and respiratory infections all impact, as can stress. But the issue was the underlying chronic vocal problem imo.

So I'd say that the vocal lesion that was finally diagnosed and treated would have had everything to do with it; the fact that the lesion healed and the subsequent vocal coaching Meat underwent to restore his voice and give him the control he needs to avoid a recurrence has resulted in the strength of vocal performance he is now achieving. The discovery must have been terrifying, but the end result has been to restore him to peak performance and a renewed confidence in his voice and his ability to manage/maintain it, which is wonderful.

first time i heard PFL one thing popped into my mind... springsteen

I certainly made that connection, although Meat made it his own. I didn't get any "Steinman" influence at all.

Caryl

[Sarge]

Meat basically took a song and revved it up and gave it a highway to run.

How do you know that it was Meat who made the changes? I haven't seen any songwriting credits for this version so far. There are major differences and Meat has always claimed that he isn't a songwriter... The similarities to Springsteen have been mentioned already. Considering Brantley's musical preferences and influences, and the fact that many songwriters create different versions of a song, it could be possible that there already was an alternative version. :??: