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Old 10 Sep 2016, 00:43   #26
stretch37
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Originally Posted by duke knooby View Post
based on a single listen it's not hooked me, it hasn't reached in and struck a chord musically. it was never meant to be a bat album, but as it's meat and jim again i cant help but compare it to what went before

i suppose, to a degree it's the bombastic over the top production, the peaks and troughs which i've found missing. On my first listen there was no emotional roller coaster, but who knows, it may be a grower for me
Takes awhile to get into it.

When I first heard it, I was very disappointed. I was looking for vocals growing to a peak of high pitch and strength, and then falling to softness and gentle emotion. I was looking for my favorite Meat Loaf I had heard before to compare it to - E.g. Bat 1, MSO, HIAHB, CHSIB, HCTB (was hoping not lol), and Bat 3. What I heard was NOT that. You know my initial gut impression was this: This is shit to what I wanted. Meat sound ancient, his voice is even more messed up than we all thought, and I am thoroughly disappointed at how he isn't even singing the high parts of the songs.

This is one of my favorite Meat Loaf records now.

I had to transition from any past idea of what Meat should sound like, and realize this is more of a Johnny Cash American Series album. It's the mark of an older musician with lots to tell still.

This album is more about artistic truth and what Meat Loaf is now as an artist. And it works.

The more I have listened to it, the more I have wanted to listen to it. I find myself in moods where the music makes me cry or laugh more than any other Meat Loaf record. That says something doesn't it?

I have found many times that I realize I am sitting and staring at a wall - in a trance. Yesterday, Meat said on air that, and I'm paraphrasing, "this album will put you in a trance". I had already been noticing this for weeks and telling my wife I got hypnotized by the whole album, especially on GATW. It's not even my favorite song.

There is something special about this album. It carries with it energy and magic. It grows on you over time. My wife and I find ourselves humming the songs and singing them around the house when the record isn't on. It gets into your head and your heart. I feel like it's a part of me now. (Keep in mind I've had time to form that opinion for about a month and a half from that stream leak)

if this album had been done 10 years ago, it could never have been what it is today. A beautiful, beautiful work of art representing a mature, knowing, passionate Meat Loaf in the prime of his artistic career and a humorous, angry, joyous, crushed, triumphant Steinman.

Thank you Meat, thank you Jimmy. You have given us wonderful art. You guys absolutely rock.

Last edited by stretch37; 10 Sep 2016 at 00:51. Reason: PS if you see this on amazon.co.uk, it's because I wrote it and thought it would make a good review. So posted it there
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 01:09   #27
duke knooby
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i went into this very much in the mind of cash's american series which are magnificent, i know it's probably the final chapter, i've always loved meat singing in a lower register, but this is yet to hypnotize me. and its not the lyrics or vocals, its just missing the spark for me
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 01:14   #28
stretch37
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i went into this very much in the mind of cash's american series which are magnificent, i know it's probably the final chapter, i've always loved meat singing in a lower register, but this is yet to hypnotize me. and its not the lyrics or vocals, its just missing the spark for me
I'm hoping that over the next while it does. It took me - I won't say exactly how long because I don't want anyone to get their hopes up - awhile to really have this start to click with me and make me feel something.

It was *not* one of those ones that grabs you right away like Hell In A Handbasket (All of Me, Giving Tree specifically) did for me.

It's almost like a mature relationship or a long lasting thing. Don't look for the quick fix. Look for that growth and fulfilling relationship. I started getting sparks especially when I needed an emotional release - when I had been holding in anger or sadness. Does that make sense? I'm speaking more from emotion than logic right now...
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 01:36   #29
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Can only say it grabbed me by the throat at first listen. Wish I could quantify it or qualify it. Honestly think I'm digging it as much as anything that's come before from Meat & Jim. Hope anyone who's finding it a bit different and difficult sticks with it - because it is different, that's for damn sure.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 01:41   #30
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While I do enjoy several of the songs, I have to admit that vocally it is bad, I mean the voice is shot. I love Meat and will always have a great back catalog of music to fall back on but I just wish he would stop. I played it for someone earlier today and within a few minutes they asked what on earth happened to his voice.

I respect that he wanted one final album with Jim and to bring it all full circle but I hope this is it and that he doesn't tour again. What I heard in Nashville in April of this year was painful to listen too, the crowd was booing at times because it was so bad.

I am very conflicted on what to feel here because I am watching my favorite artist fall to the vicious bitch that is time.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 01:57   #31
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My considered view:

Effing, bleeding awesome!
It's bright, sharp, challenging, beautifully textured, honest, complex, emotional and fantastically raw.

Worth the (23 year) wait.

Thankyou to Meat, Jim, Paul and the band. To Justin for the piano fill in gatw and the rest. To the girls who made the album soar,
To John for telling our hearts exactly what to do and Dave's electrifying tongue.

Meat and Jim is prime meat loaf. Makes a lot of the rest (with notable exceptions) feel like quornloaf.

Only criticism?

Where's the other 15 minutes?

I want MORE!

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Old 10 Sep 2016, 01:59   #32
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While I do enjoy several of the songs, I have to admit that vocally it is bad, I mean the voice is shot. I love Meat and will always have a great back catalog of music to fall back on but I just wish he would stop. I played it for someone earlier today and within a few minutes they asked what on earth happened to his voice.

I respect that he wanted one final album with Jim and to bring it all full circle but I hope this is it and that he doesn't tour again. What I heard in Nashville in April of this year was painful to listen too, the crowd was booing at times because it was so bad.

I am very conflicted on what to feel here because I am watching my favorite artist fall to the vicious bitch that is time.
I agree, been feeling like that for awhile now, but you know that's part of life. We're lucky to still have Meat, and time has been harder on him than most.

Having said that I feel like there is something beautiful there. Beautiful art can be created from death or later-in-life reflections, sometimes even more beautiful than youth, or just as impactful.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:01   #33
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A lot of the criticisms - and they are few and far between, the people I know who've heard the album are overwhelmingly possible, stunned even - is those who were hoping for Bat 4.

It reminds me of reading about the reactions to Billie Holiday's Lady In Satin. Some people see between the cracks in an old/damaged voice and see something really beautiful in it that youth just can't do. Others want something that for want of a better term, sounds conventionally aesthetically pleasing. No one's right or wrong really, but those who don't dig Braver I hope can at least be glad it exists for those of us who love the hell out of it. I'm so glad this album exists.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:19   #34
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I'm so glad this album exists.
Me too. I've seen some harsh criticisms about this album but also about Meat in general, that he should have stopped at Bat2. His music has entertained far more people since then than the period between Bat 1 and Bat2! As if that enjoyment is worth nothing? I've stood near the front of around 25 Meat Loaf shows and enjoyed myself tremendously 96% of the time. It's a far better ratio than the enjoyment ratio you'd get out of going to the cinema, reading books or playing video games.

Going All the Way for me is worth the cost of the album alone, beyond. The vast majority of the rest I really like and dig and think it will grow on me as Bat 1 and Bat 2 did.

Braver is different, wacky, fun, bombastic, beautiful, crazy, nostalgic and the guys who made it are indeed a bit older but at the same time it still is Meat & Jim for me.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:22   #35
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Me too. I've seen some harsh criticisms about this album but also about Meat in general, that he should have stopped at Bat2.
If he had, I wouldn't be a fan.

I became attracted to the 2003 incarnation of Meat Loaf. Nothing before that resonated with me.

He's like Bowie, or Bowie is like him. Many incarnations. Interesting artistic growth and change, especially later in his career. A true artist in every sense of the word...

Tom Waits, Pete Seeger, Willie Nelson, Kris Kristofferson, Johnny Cash, Keith Richards, Patrick Stewart, Kirk Douglas, Phil Collins, Dick Van Dyke, Ronnie James Dio, Lemmy Kilmister, Leonard Cohen, Meat Loaf.

All people I admire and have watched their art evolve into their senior years. It's art. They are creators, and while some may hold one above the other on a pedestal, I just feel like they are all an inspiration in one way or another.

People I have been learning from and will reference and look to for probably my entire life. Their art is inspiring, or was inspiring, at every stage - even at the end. I feel the same about Meat. And yes, along with his age comes some of the sad feelings one feels seeing a friend age as well as the happier feelings, just as you feel towards a young person - young people aren't invincible to mockery or harsh words or condescending views by their elder either. It goes both ways.

One thing I do hope Meat does, despite all of this 'understanding' I am expressing right now, is to make improving his health his life's work for the next while. He deserves only the best.

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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:28   #36
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If he had, I wouldn't be a fan.

I became attracted to the 2003 incarnation of Meat Loaf. Nothing before that resonated with me.

He's like Bowie, or Bowie is like him. Many incarnations. Interesting artistic growth and change, especially later in his career. A true artist in every sense of the word...
That's why I think he'll be appreciated so much more in years to come. Unfortunately he seems to have fallen into the same media perception as Alice Cooper. They decide who are 'artists' and who are 'entertainers' when the fact is if you do it right the two should be one and the same. Just like Alice Cooper makes people think 'oh yeah, that spooky guy who did School's Out and Welcome To My Nightmare and Poison, the guy with the snake' even though his catalog has such a breadth of fascinating material that could rival anyone's, so Meat is cursed by the terms 'rock opera', 'larger than life' etc.

It's facile easily digestible bullshit for the masses who want everything and everyone to be able to be distilled in a couple of sentences. Couldn't Have Said It Better sounds nothing like Bat, Bat sounds nothing like Braver. Lost Boys & Golden Girls sounds nothing like Life Is A Lemon, Do It sounds nothing like Dead Ringer, Who Needs The Young sounds nothing like anything he's ever recorded.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:31   #37
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A lot of the criticisms - and they are few and far between, the people I know who've heard the album are overwhelmingly possible, stunned even - is those who were hoping for Bat 4.

It reminds me of reading about the reactions to Billie Holiday's Lady In Satin. Some people see between the cracks in an old/damaged voice and see something really beautiful in it that youth just can't do. Others want something that for want of a better term, sounds conventionally aesthetically pleasing. No one's right or wrong really, but those who don't dig Braver I hope can at least be glad it exists for those of us who love the hell out of it. I'm so glad this album exists.
"Bat" undoubtedly defined both Meat and Jim's careers. This is different, one for the fans. I didn't want bat 4. I wanted meat and jim to finally do something without the monolith weighing them down. This does that. Absolutely.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:33   #38
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"Bat" undoubtedly defined both Meat and Jim's careers. This is different, one for the fans. I didn't want bat 4. I wanted meat and jim to finally do something without the monolith weighing them down. This does that. Absolutely.
That brings up a point - the huge credit that everyone involved deserves for not weighing down/cashing in by calling this album Bat 4. As a side note I suspect Paul's production deserves a hell of a lot of credit for the incredible cohesion (to use a word Meat keeps citing, rightfully) this album has. He's pulling songs and song fragments from decades apart and it sounds like parts of a whole. No mean feat!
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:38   #39
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Everyone cries when it's over. When it is still going it is easy to ridicule and take for granted and to rate 1 star.

Even if you really think Meat failed miserably. At least he tried. He didn't give up. He tried to make you smile one last time.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:41   #40
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Everyone cries when it's over. When it is still going it is easy to ridicule and take for granted and to rate 1 star.

Even if you really think Meat failed miserably. At least he tried. He didn't give up. He tried to make you smile one last time.
This right here.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:48   #41
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Ive listened twice, so still too early to write a review.
But i love it so much, really do. Its so far left field and unlike anything around at the moment. This album will recieve all the acolades in years to come i think, it has split opinions now, but thats now. Give it time
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:50   #42
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There are some on this thread who need to get to grips with the fact that music is organic and a 68 year old who's pushed himself on our behalf for 40+ YEARS might not sound as sweet as One Direction or Bieber.
You are following a heritage artist here.
You criticise his voice but it is you, me, public demand which has set those scars.
And you know what?

This album will confound you. It will be more successful than you will understand quite simply because many people won't be "conosseurs" but will relate hugely with the flaws. It makes it human.

Get over yourselves.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:51   #43
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There are some on this thread who need to get to grips with the fact that music is organic and a 68 year old who's pushed himself on our behalf for 40+ YEARS might not sound as sweet as One Direction or Bieber.
You are following a heritage artist here.
You criticise his voice but it is you, me, public demand which has set those scars.
And you know what?

This album will confound you. It will be more successful than you will understand quite simply because many people won't be "conosseurs" but will relate hugely with the flaws. It makes it human.

Get over yourselves.
Bravo
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:58   #44
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There are some on this thread who need to get to grips with the fact that music is organic and a 68 year old who's pushed himself on our behalf for 40+ YEARS might not sound as sweet as One Direction or Bieber.
You are following a heritage artist here.
You criticise his voice but it is you, me, public demand which has set those scars.
And you know what?

This album will confound you. It will be more successful than you will understand quite simply because many people won't be "conosseurs" but will relate hugely with the flaws. It makes it human.

Get over yourselves.
Well said, although I should also add that I completely support everyone's response on this website thus far. I feel that everyone has been extremely respectful and have shown a wide range of opinions.

And thus the discussion forum was born....

Other websites, on the other hand, make me sick, and I completely agree with your above statement. All the 1 star reviews and trash talkers are pretty hurtful. But it's ok. They're over there. They can stay in their 1 star corner while I enjoy my artist's beautiful creation.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 02:59   #45
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While I do enjoy several of the songs, I have to admit that vocally it is bad, I mean the voice is shot. I love Meat and will always have a great back catalog of music to fall back on but I just wish he would stop. I played it for someone earlier today and within a few minutes they asked what on earth happened to his voice.

I respect that he wanted one final album with Jim and to bring it all full circle but I hope this is it and that he doesn't tour again. What I heard in Nashville in April of this year was painful to listen too, the crowd was booing at times because it was so bad.

I am very conflicted on what to feel here because I am watching my favorite artist fall to the vicious bitch that is time.
I'd much rather have this and hear his real voice and his amazing interprative ability than to have some slick tuned to perfection vocals using studio gimmickry. Johnny Cash did some great things in his older years and his voice had changed some also.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 03:01   #46
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And you know what?

This album will confound you.
Yes. It stands alone I think. I listened to it without pre-conceptions, defined expectations, comparisons. I was reminded of the Beatles' lyric "And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." I opened my mind, heart and soul with total trust, and was rewarded beyond measure
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 03:03   #47
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That brings up a point - the huge credit that everyone involved deserves for not weighing down/cashing in by calling this album Bat 4. As a side note I suspect Paul's production deserves a hell of a lot of credit for the incredible cohesion (to use a word Meat keeps citing, rightfully) this album has. He's pulling songs and song fragments from decades apart and it sounds like parts of a whole. No mean feat!
Paul produced it. The boss signed it off though. Jim took a risk too. The band were allowed to contribute emphatically. That's where a lot of the cohesion comes from. It's a band record which adds to it in so many ways.

It really should be released under the name of Meat, Jim and the neverland express.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 03:29   #48
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Well said, although I should also add that I completely support everyone's response on this website thus far. I feel that everyone has been extremely respectful and have shown a wide range of opinions.

And thus the discussion forum was born....

Other websites, on the other hand, make me sick, and I completely agree with your above statement. All the 1 star reviews and trash talkers are pretty hurtful. But it's ok. They're over there. They can stay in their 1 star corner while I enjoy my artist's beautiful creation.
I am quite grateful that "authentic" has greater sway with the wider public than "polished".

Meat and Jim have always defied convention and this is their geatest strength.

Don't get me wrong. I'm surprised this album is as good as it is. But Meats rawness and honesty makes it what it is. it would have been easy to take historic vocal tracks for most of these tracks and create something that sounded like bat 1 or 2 here. The ravaged voice makes this in so many ways.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 03:31   #49
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Everyone cries when it's over. When it is still going it is easy to ridicule and take for granted and to rate 1 star.

Even if you really think Meat failed miserably. At least he tried. He didn't give up. He tried to make you smile one last time.
And now I'm crying, THANKS ANDREW.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 03:32   #50
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Originally Posted by ricgough View Post
There are some on this thread who need to get to grips with the fact that music is organic and a 68 year old who's pushed himself on our behalf for 40+ YEARS might not sound as sweet as One Direction or Bieber.
You are following a heritage artist here.
You criticise his voice but it is you, me, public demand which has set those scars.
And you know what?

This album will confound you. It will be more successful than you will understand quite simply because many people won't be "conosseurs" but will relate hugely with the flaws. It makes it human.

Get over yourselves.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.
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