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Old 01 Jul 2016, 00:38   #1
ashkent7
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Default A thought for those who don't "get" it...

I've seen a few negative comments popping up on Meat's Facebook page since the samples of the album went live, and since GATW started streaming.

i think I have seen three or four now that simply say "Meat's vocals are weak and not up to it". Taking into account that most of these comments come from people who haven't heard the full album, or those who, as Meat said himself here, they only own Bat and expect him to sound like that 40 years on, there is one thing on the album that, even for those who have only heard the samples, proves that every vocal on the album is done the way it is for a reason.

That one thing? Listen to Meat's voice on Train of Love (there are other examples but this one is in the sample so seemed the best to use). There is no one can listen to that and say his voice is weak or not on point. It almost sounds like it was recorded around CHSIB time.

And that is what got me instantly on board with what they have done with the album. If they wanted every song to have a loud, strong vocal, then it would have. Again, as Meat has said a few times now, on some tracks they wanted a lower and more toned down vocal. Bat 3 had almost perfect quality vocals, but lacked the feeling. I just think it is a shame that some, many of who say they have been lifelong fans or love his other albums, have been happy to publically critcise so quickly.

Everyone can have their own opinion, and rightly so they should, but i think maybe they also need to give the album a chance when it comes out if they don't get it now. The first time i played GATW and heard the first few lines... I thought, ok that doesn't sound anything like Meat....but then it began to click and gel,and now I can't think of it being sung any other way.

Braver goes straight in my top three Meat albums and when i get to hear it in its entirity again when it comes out, it could well have a good shot at toppling one of the top two.
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Old 01 Jul 2016, 01:18   #2
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Excellent thoughts. There is nothing that can be done about people who think he should sound like it is still 1978. They are never going to get it.

I also expect them to put down the vocal on "Scars" again because they don't understand the character Meat puts in the songs to convey emotion.

These vocals are excellent and I am so glad nobody tried to "doctor" them in the process. Bat is youth, Bat 2 is middle age, and BTWA is from an older, wiser perspective. For that Meat put in just the right vocals, Paul's production and Justin's backgrounds just emphasize things just right. They know when to hold back and when to put the foot to the pedal.

This is a very special album. Some people will never get that. This is their own loss. For them there are the Justin Beibers of the world - no offense if that is what they like- but what Meat and Jim make is a special art that requires more thought and nuanced emotion that you don't get in a 3 minute auto-tune pop song on corporate radio.
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Old 01 Jul 2016, 01:36   #3
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the thing is perfect quality vocals are what everyone accustomed to.

personally I understand the feelings on both fronts

Meat nails GATW.
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Old 01 Jul 2016, 01:37   #4
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Two good posts. Have to agree with what was said.
I have barely listened to the samples to be honest, want to keep it all fresh for my first full listen. The music world is a weak and empty place these days, 3 minute pop songs with a hook and beat, but with no emotion and story to them.
The days of creating an art form are gone, meat and a handful of other artists still put thought into their music.
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Old 01 Jul 2016, 07:40   #5
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Originally Posted by nikox1 View Post
The days of creating an art form are gone, meat and a handful of other artists still put thought into their music.
Nope, you just have to look outside of contemporary 'pop' music to find it. There are INSURMOUNTABLE scores of metal/rock/alt/70s style/60s style/etc. NEW bands out there, all with videos and vinyls and CDs and merch. Check out some of the lesser known record labels and you'll find bands that are totally experimental and don't limit themselves to any era, style, or genre... and also plenty of bands that do (but do it well!!).

As for BRAVER -- I think it's garnered mostly positive reviews so far, which is GREAT!
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Old 01 Jul 2016, 08:39   #6
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Nope, you just have to look outside of contemporary 'pop' music to find it.
That's it. Heck, just search for your favorite genre on SoundCloud and you'll find tons of indie music, people just being creative and using their talents. Some good stuff on there. There's a metal playlist/podcast I listen to and it has some of the best classic-metal-style new music from indie bands that I've heard ever....
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Old 01 Jul 2016, 09:16   #7
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Agreed. But I was referring more to the mainstream drivel.
I deal with a lot of cool young bands, but sadly if you don't fit the radio friendly genre, well it's goodnight commercially anyway.
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Old 01 Jul 2016, 17:25   #8
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I think the important thing in terms of being able to enjoy an older artist is that the listener can hear some form of 'continuity' in the sound of the record, with previous records -- Bruce Springsteen, for example, made too much of a departure in the 'Human Touch'/'Lucky Town' era - I don't think many people would disagree with that, now.

I've only heard: 'Souvenirs' in full ,, 'Train Of Love' as a sample ,, and 'Going All The Way' as the streamed edit. The first two certainly maintain enough continuity with the last few albums. 'Souvenirs' didn't knock my socks off, but I sensed right away that it would be a 'grower', and really enjoyed it - not least because it sounds like Loaf is 'acting his age', so to speak, by making more use of his lower register.

I have to say, however, that I found 'GATW' to be a distinctly under-whelming choice of single. Now, I don't know yet., some of that may be down to the brutal editing, but, for me, his vocals just don't 'gel' with the female vocalists -- I think another male voice was needed in there, singing a harmony line, in order to glue it together ,,,,,,,,,
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Old 06 Jul 2016, 03:56   #9
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I listened to the entire thing at least 3 times before it got deleted.

The only track which I was not a fan of the vocals was 'Only When I Feel'. For how great the rest of the album sounds I didn't feel this one was up to par. It sounds like a live vocal performance IMO.
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Old 06 Jul 2016, 09:37   #10
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Originally Posted by Evil Ernie View Post
I listened to the entire thing at least 3 times before it got deleted.

The only track which I was not a fan of the vocals was 'Only When I Feel'. For how great the rest of the album sounds I didn't feel this one was up to par. It sounds like a live vocal performance IMO.
I really like Only When I Feel. I get what they are doing with it, and for me (with the huge piano lift half way through), whenever I listen to it I see someone (or thing) staggering around a castle, smashing things, thunder in the distance. It is a grandiose Frankenstein story in a 2 minute song...and that's why partly I think as well as fitting with Break It originally, I also think it works really well as a prelude to Anything For Love, you can almost hear the bike guitar overlay and imagine the piano intro coming in (or even just bursting straight into the music after the opening verse of AFL.
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Old 06 Jul 2016, 16:08   #11
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I listened to the entire thing at least 3 times before it got deleted.

The only track which I was not a fan of the vocals was 'Only When I Feel'. For how great the rest of the album sounds I didn't feel this one was up to par. It sounds like a live vocal performance IMO.
Meat said that he had a perfect vocal for OWIF but discarded it for the more real one. Steinman loved the new vocal as it was more raw and theartrical.
Meat sang the song based on how the character he found in the song was feeling.
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Old 07 Jul 2016, 01:29   #12
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Meat said that he had a perfect vocal for OWIF but discarded it for the more real one. Steinman loved the new vocal as it was more raw and theartrical.
Meat sang the song based on how the character he found in the song was feeling.
Well, than I guess that I disagree with Meat and Jim. I would like to hear the version with perfect vocals.
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Old 09 Jul 2016, 03:02   #13
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Originally Posted by ashkent7 View Post
I've seen a few negative comments popping up on Meat's Facebook page since the samples of the album went live, and since GATW started streaming.

i think I have seen three or four now that simply say "Meat's vocals are weak and not up to it". Taking into account that most of these comments come from people who haven't heard the full album, or those who, as Meat said himself here, they only own Bat and expect him to sound like that 40 years on, there is one thing on the album that, even for those who have only heard the samples, proves that every vocal on the album is done the way it is for a reason.

That one thing? Listen to Meat's voice on Train of Love (there are other examples but this one is in the sample so seemed the best to use). There is no one can listen to that and say his voice is weak or not on point. It almost sounds like it was recorded around CHSIB time.

And that is what got me instantly on board with what they have done with the album. If they wanted every song to have a loud, strong vocal, then it would have. Again, as Meat has said a few times now, on some tracks they wanted a lower and more toned down vocal. Bat 3 had almost perfect quality vocals, but lacked the feeling. I just think it is a shame that some, many of who say they have been lifelong fans or love his other albums, have been happy to publically critcise so quickly.

Everyone can have their own opinion, and rightly so they should, but i think maybe they also need to give the album a chance when it comes out if they don't get it now. The first time i played GATW and heard the first few lines... I thought, ok that doesn't sound anything like Meat....but then it began to click and gel,and now I can't think of it being sung any other way.

Braver goes straight in my top three Meat albums and when i get to hear it in its entirity again when it comes out, it could well have a good shot at toppling one of the top two.
I've heard all the songs.
Meat's voice is not what it was but it is still there. I like what I've heard and I can tell you this much, the more you listen to the songs the more they grow on you. There isn't one song that makes me think Meat is not up to the task. I know there will be a lot written in reviews regarding Meat's vocals and thats fine. I like what I hear and don't really care what anyone else has to say.
Everyone has there opinion and is entitled to such.
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Old 09 Jul 2016, 19:39   #14
ashkent7
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I've heard all the songs.
Meat's voice is not what it was but it is still there. I like what I've heard and I can tell you this much, the more you listen to the songs the more they grow on you. There isn't one song that makes me think Meat is not up to the task. I know there will be a lot written in reviews regarding Meat's vocals and thats fine. I like what I hear and don't really care what anyone else has to say.
Everyone has there opinion and is entitled to such.
Today my wife heard a couple of the songs while we were in the car, and she is a greatest hits type of fan so hasn't heard much of Meat's stuff since Bat 2. After about a minute of Souvenirs she said "Is this Meat Loaf's new album?" I said yes I've got a couple of songs on from it. After a few minutes she said..."his voice has definitely changed since 20 years ago but to be fair if he sounded the same it would just be a load of effects. It's clearly still him because even i recognised him."

That kind of sums it up...there are still effects there on some songs more than others but because they are needed for the production of the song and not to try and change Meat's voice for the sake of it.
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Old 12 Jul 2016, 09:18   #15
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Originally Posted by ashkent7 View Post
Today my wife heard a couple of the songs while we were in the car, and she is a greatest hits type of fan so hasn't heard much of Meat's stuff since Bat 2. After about a minute of Souvenirs she said "Is this Meat Loaf's new album?" I said yes I've got a couple of songs on from it. After a few minutes she said..."his voice has definitely changed since 20 years ago but to be fair if he sounded the same it would just be a load of effects. It's clearly still him because even i recognised him."

That kind of sums it up...there are still effects there on some songs more than others but because they are needed for the production of the song and not to try and change Meat's voice for the sake of it.
Where on bat 2 are vocal effects?
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Old 12 Jul 2016, 10:27   #16
ashkent7
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Where on bat 2 are vocal effects?
I was talking about the effects on the Braver songs not Bat 2

Although there are some effects, mainly echo, on Lemon, AFL, Frying Pan in Bat 2.
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Old 15 Jul 2016, 09:55   #17
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As a reply to the thread title.....I do get it, revisited and really enjoying some of the album, Loving you's a dirty job, souvenirs, speaking in tongues, train of love, more are on repeat. Really struggling with Godz, who needs the young and, though it really hurts to say it, Going All The Way Is Just The Start as well.
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Old 15 Jul 2016, 10:54   #18
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Souvenirs is just beautiful I think.
When I first heard those saxophones and Meat's vocal and just piano I really thought Wow!

The lyrics are pretty good in places "Step right up you poor little girl and take your souvenirs." It's similar to Left in the Dark for sure but I definitely prefer this over Meat's rendition of that song and is quite a great echo to Steinman's original Left in the Dark with very good production.

I think it's Meat's best vocals I've heard from Braver at this point for sure.
When my girlfriend heard it and said "He's still got it" (she's not a fan) it was quite special.

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Old 15 Jul 2016, 11:20   #19
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Souvenirs is a mess. The vocals are good but the song is a poor man's Left In The Dark. The second half needed new lyrics.
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Old 15 Jul 2016, 12:00   #20
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Souvenirs is a mess. The vocals are good but the song is a poor man's Left In The Dark. The second half needed new lyrics.
I think this part could have been replaced (makes not much sense to me in the context of the rest) but other than that I think the lyrics are good.
"So tell me now, now who's playing this game
Which side do I choose?
I'm going down, down and I'm spinning around
Is there anyone I can accuse?
What are the odds
For do I win or lose?
Oh baby please, sir, by the way, sir
May I be excused?"
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Old 15 Jul 2016, 13:15   #21
ashkent7
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I think this part could have been replaced (makes not much sense to me in the context of the rest) but other than that I think the lyrics are good.
"So tell me now, now who's playing this game
Which side do I choose?
I'm going down, down and I'm spinning around
Is there anyone I can accuse?
What are the odds
For do I win or lose?
Oh baby please, sir, by the way, sir
May I be excused?"
I like the whole thing and (as it predates Left in the Dark) I think it was kind of Jim's young take on what relationship break ups can be like.

This is how I see it.
You have the admission/realisation (Baby I think its over, the end is finally near), the imagery of what you can and can't take from someone (take my heart, drain it dry - You're never gonna get your hands on my love), the mess that it becomes and how it turns into a blame game(I'm going down, down and I'm spinning around Is there anyone I can accuse?)and how it becomes petty and childish (please, sir, by the way, sir, May I be excused? I don't want to play with you no more)
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Old 15 Jul 2016, 18:13   #22
Evil One
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The first half is fine, but everything from 'It's mine, mine all mine onwards (apart from the take my toys line) is pretty poor in my opinion and I can see why Steinman has never used this song in any of his other ventures.
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Old 15 Jul 2016, 19:59   #23
glockenspiel
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Originally Posted by Monstro View Post
As a reply to the thread title.....I do get it, revisited and really enjoying some of the album, Loving you's a dirty job, souvenirs, speaking in tongues, train of love, more are on repeat. Really struggling with Godz, who needs the young and, though it really hurts to say it, Going All The Way Is Just The Start as well.
I've only heard short bursts, but Godz and Who Need The Young sound utterly gripping to me! - 'Going All The Way' seems to be the weakest offering of all ...
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Old 16 Jul 2016, 16:38   #24
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Going All The Way is phenomenal. Tongues is Phenomenal. Dirty Job is phenomenal. It's probably better if I don't share my opinion on the rest. Perhaps it will grow on me.
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Old 16 Jul 2016, 17:40   #25
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Going All The Way is phenomenal. Tongues is Phenomenal. Dirty Job is phenomenal.
Gotta say this........Two outta three ain't bad....sorry

Going All The Way is an amazing song, phenomenal even, but there's just something not clicking for me. I know exactly what it is and it's down to my personal taste so quite expect others to love it as the song is incredible.
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