General rant about cig bans & tax issues.

[djfierce]

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

i have to take neils side here (lol)

We had the right, it was our decision to visit a smoking or a non smoking etablissment (sp?)

Im totally with Neil here, the state doesnt have to make rules for everything.

we didnt in the uk RJ, where i used to live there were no non-smoking establishments, not a single one,it was sit in smoke or dont go. I really dont see where the hardship is for the smokers, most pubs/clubs/restaurants where i live have moved with the times and incorporated sheltered smoking areas for their clients, it is those places that have had the foresight to do something about it that seem to be surviving this supposed chokehold the ban has on the industry.

[Deb]

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

i have to take neils side here (lol)

We had the right, it was our decision to visit a smoking or a non smoking etablissment (sp?)

Im totally with Neil here, the state doesnt have to make rules for everything.

I was waiting for this one

It is also the people who smokes right to not visit now

[RadioMaster]

alright, sorry, didnt know that

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by djfierce

we didnt in the uk RJ, where i used to live there were no non-smoking establishments, not a single one,it was sit in smoke or dont go. I really dont see where the hardship is for the smokers, most pubs/clubs/restaurants where i live have moved with the times and incorporated sheltered smoking areas for their clients, it is those places that have had the foresight to do something about it that seem to be surviving this supposed chokehold the ban has on the industry.

But there it is right there.

When places had the option of closing it's doors to smokers, it didn't.
Why?
Because it was bad for business.

On one hand, I agree that there should be more non smoking pubs than before the ban came into place, but it should still be up to the landlord to decide who he wants to serve in his pub.

As mentioned on this thread, some places (the minority to be sure, but some) have actually faired better, and would probably stay no smoking if they had the choice.

I think many restaurants (especially, but not exclusivley, fast food places such as McDonalds and Burger King) would stay no smoking if the ban was repealed and places were given free choice.

[duke knooby]

this is gonna be a great thread when it gets to infringement of human rights and freedom of choice etc etc etc lol

[Deb]

The Nanny state has taken over in many ways. Bus lane cameras, speeding cameras, seat belt wearing compulsery, no talking on mobiLes while driving, drinking and driving. IMO the smoking one is far less important than any of these. but these are becoming all widely accepted. A friend of mine from the US really notices all these I've mentioned far more than I do as they don't have them as much there. Now all of these make for far more of a Nanny state IMO. As far as I can see Neil, you're the only smoker who's really against this and that seems to be mostly down to the fact you work in the industry and smoke.

[duke knooby]

and don't forget manchester is lucky enough to be trialing road pricing cameras for the next 5 years

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Deb

As far as I can see Neil, you're the only smoker who's really against this and that seems to be mostly down to the fact you work in the industry and smoke.

Because i'm a smoker?
Not so much.
As I say, going out for a smoke doesn't overly bother me, apart from the break in conversation.

As someone who works around the pub industry?
As someone who sees empty pubs?
Friends going out of business and losing their jobs?
HELL YES.


All this aside from the fact that drinkers and drivers are getting shoved up the ass to compensate for the loss of tax revenue.

[Deb]

Andy and Michael are smokers and seem to be far more understanding on this than you, who is also a smoker.

I'm on the total opposite end of this to you. I really don't care about the lost jobs, empty pubs and the lost work in the industry.

What I do care about is the fact that smoking kills and is VERY anti social. My Step Mum had a stroke through smoking, she never cared if she smoked in front of my kids (even as babies) as it was her house and if we didn't like it, well ... So I have first hand experience on the other side of this. She now can't do ANYTHING for herself even a yr and a half on.

[Deb]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

All this aside from the fact that drinkers and drivers are getting shoved up the ass to compensate for the loss of tax revenue.

Actually I think we're all getting shoved up the arse to pay for the war And it goes far worse than just the drivers and smokers

[SamCat]

I cant find any official info but a couple of pro/anti smoking websites say the figures are roughly 8 billion pounds collected in tobacco taxes and smokers cost the NHS about 3 billion pounds a year so if every smoker stopped everyone would have to pay a lot more tax on probably just about everything!!

[The Flying Mouse]

Well i'm very sorry to hear that Deb, and I can only say that it was very irresponsible of her to smoke around your children like that.

Non smokers do have the right to be able to go for a beer or a meal without suffering second hand smoke.
That is a given.

But I argue that smokers have that same right.

Difference of opinion.

Supose we should just agree to differ on this

[Deb]

Yep, the tax the goverment gets from smokers is the only down side of not smoking lol

[SamCat]

And anyone thinking of giving up and needs a little push theres a horrendous photo on this site please please please dont look if youre the slightest bit squeamish but it might help someone give up

http://www.mrcrip.com/blog/why-smoke...tments-period/

[Deb]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Well i'm very sorry to hear that Deb, and I can only say that it was very irresponsible of her to smoke around your children like that.

Non smokers do have the right to be able to go for a beer or a meal without suffering second hand smoke.
That is a given.

But I argue that smokers have that same right.

Difference of opinion.

Supose we should just agree to differ on this

Well I guess it's just old values where people don't see a problem with smoking. Thankfully more and more do hence the smoking bans.

The thing with this both have the right, doesn't really work as really and truly it has to be one or the other. Unless smokers only mix with smokers and vice versa

[Monstro]

Originally Posted by SamCat

I cant find any official info but a couple of pro/anti smoking websites say the figures are roughly 8 billion pounds collected in tobacco taxes and smokers cost the NHS about 3 billion pounds a year so if every smoker stopped everyone would have to pay a lot more tax on probably just about everything!!

Tis true, if we all gave up smoking and drinking on Monday morning the country would be bankrupt by Wednesday lunchtime!!!

[djfierce]

so we'd all better start smoking then


That gives a whole new meaning to the term 'dying for your country' lol

[ChoccyBat]

I am in agreement with Deb - the world is a much better place for the smoking ban. I don't smoke, tho a lot of my mates do. We do go out less often, but that is due to prices shooting up so us having less disposable income. And that is due to profiteering oil companies. EVERYTHING goes by road - believe me I used to work in haulage - and thus when diesel/petrol shoots up, so does the price of everything being carried by it, as everyone along the line has to meet costs.
Pubs have been going bust for years, and the stats show it has NOT got worse since the smoking ban. Those going bust are the lazy ones who can't be bothered to adapt - the same as when Sky Sports came out, and those pubs who couldn't afford it bleated that they would go out of business, rather than coming up with novel ideas to keep the punters coming in. Look up and down the country and music arenas are still packed, good pubs are thriving and restaurants are doing fine. Those that are going down the pan are those that haven't adapted, or were already struggling. In times like this the companies/services at the bottom end of the food chain in terms of appeal will suffer. Fast cars will suffer because we can't afford the petrol, big homes will suffer because we can't afford the mortgages, so prices will come down. And poor pubs will suffer because we have less cash to spend so we will be more choosy over where we spend it. The smoking ban is not killing good pubs, restaurants or venues, it is just finishing off those that were on borrowed time. And that is a small price to pay for taking the family for a nice meal, or being able to watch the football without coming home stinking of smoke. Amen!

[Deb]

to all that...

oh thats another thing I forgot. it's wonderful to come home from a restaurant or pub without stinking of smoke. There was a time when no matter where I went when going out, that i'd have to wash all my clothes and hair the next day cause of the smell. Now thats not always the case So think of the ozone layer on the energy saved lol

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Monstro

Tis true, if we all gave up smoking and drinking on Monday morning the country would be bankrupt by Wednesday lunchtime!!!

What Michael said

[Deb]

None of us are saying thats not the case though my points are all for social and health reasons, oh and the cost and the smell and the... lol

[The Flying Mouse]

It can't be for the social reasons as no ~~~~~~ goes out anymore

Health reasons and the smell of smoke can be avoided by going to non smoking places.
As i've said right through this thread, i'm not against places having the option of being smoking or non smoking, in fact I would PREFARE them to have the option rather than say tell them what they're going to be.

The cost?
Don't know what you mean by that Deb, but it's the smokers who are paying 8 Billion pounds a year in tax for fags.
Perhaps, as we give the country 5 Billion pounds a year profit, we should all be put on private health care for free

[Deb]

Oh but people do go out lol. The restaurants I go in are packed now days

By the cost I mean - how much they cost for smokers to buy... just another down side to smoking imo..

Out of that 5 billion how much goes on medical care for smoking related illnesses?

[ChoccyBat]

Funny that, last weekend I had to queue to get into most pubs and we even got refused from a nightclub cos it was full. And my city, York, has a booming hotel and b&b trade right now, which suggests people are still visiting and having nights out. And the whole "give the pub the option of smoking and non smoking areas" is rubbish. My local where I watch football (and have done for 6 years since I moved here) had a tiny non smoking area, without any tvs for the football, a grand total of TWO tables for eating, and was right at the opposite end of the pub from the toilet. Many other pubs were like this. In reality, give the pub a choice and there is no choice - it's breath in smoke or go home. To be honest, we have the best compromise now. Everyone can go out, and those that want to smoke will be provided with somewhere to do so - usually a covered area to the back, sometimes even heated.

[Deb]

well said yet again

Thats another thing i've noticed, how many pubs are adding outdoor smoking areas. neil have you thought that maybe it's just Liverpool thats suffering from this lol.