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Old 18 Jul 2016, 17:27   #26
DazLoaf01
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I bought and downloaded the single from iTunes and have had a few weeks to gather my thoughts, so here goes:

While I have huge respect for Meat as an artist, and appreciate his desire to try new sounds and create a character for every song, I cannot help but feel very disappointed by his vocal offering on this track, and on many of the iTunes samples for the rest of the album.

He's occasionally out of time, and drops his voice into a very 'raw' sound for certain lines which is jarring to hear. I get that he is determined to present his real 'live' voice on a studio album, but getting away from that reverb-heavy, atmospheric and controlled vocal style made famous in the early albums, Bat II, WTTN and the new tracks on The Very Best Of is a mistake in my opinion, and the dry sound just doesn't work for his voice. There's no way radio will play the single, and quite frankly the performance is just not good enough. The character(s) Meat creates in his mind shouldn't come at the cost of a professional vocal. Hell In A Handbasket was a solid offering (with a few cracks here and there on All Of Us and Another Day), and I'm saddened that his voice has deteriorated this much in the few intervening years. IMO the last album of perfect vocals in terms of performance was CHSIB, and it's a shame he can't get back to that, especially as so many have been looking forward to a reunion between Meat and Jim Steinman for years. On the positive side, I think More and Godz sound good from the samples I've heard.

I understand if reading this might be upsetting for some people, and maybe even the man himself, but as a fan and consumer I felt compelled to offer my thoughts.
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Old 18 Jul 2016, 17:36   #27
nikox1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DazLoaf01 View Post
I bought and downloaded the single from iTunes and have had a few weeks to gather my thoughts, so here goes:

While I have huge respect for Meat as an artist, and appreciate his desire to try new sounds and create a character for every song, I cannot help but feel very disappointed by his vocal offering on this track, and on many of the iTunes samples for the rest of the album.

He's occasionally out of time, and drops his voice into a very 'raw' sound for certain lines which is jarring to hear. I get that he is determined to present his real 'live' voice on a studio album, but getting away from that reverb-heavy, atmospheric and controlled vocal style made famous in the early albums, Bat II, WTTN and the new tracks on The Very Best Of is a mistake in my opinion, and the dry sound just doesn't work for his voice. There's no way radio will play the single, and quite frankly the performance is just not good enough. The character(s) Meat creates in his mind shouldn't come at the cost of a professional vocal. Hell In A Handbasket was a solid offering (with a few cracks here and there on All Of Us and Another Day), and I'm saddened that his voice has deteriorated this much in the few intervening years. IMO the last album of perfect vocals in terms performance was CHSIB, and it's a shame he can't get back to that, especially as I've been looking forward to a reunion between Meat and Jim Steinman for years. On the positive side, I think More and Godz sound good from the samples I've heard.

I understand if reading this might be upsetting for some people, and maybe even the man himself, but as a fan and consumer I felt compelled to offer my thoughts.
You have a right to air your views, the vocals seem to be a talking point.
What little I have heard, I don't see any problems, I kind of get what they went for, but I have also not heard enough.
Jim Steinman is a perfectionist, there are story's of him torturing Meat to get the right vocals,, so I doubt he would put he's name on it if it was not what they wanted. As for Meat?? Hell he would not put out something that was not of the standard required. But again you paid for the song, so you deserve your opinion.
Clean smooth vocals are great, but I'm so glad Meat does not put out fake and unreal vocals like some other ageing artists,
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Old 18 Jul 2016, 19:36   #28
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Originally Posted by nikox1 View Post
You have a right to air your views, the vocals seem to be a talking point.
What little I have heard, I don't see any problems, I kind of get what they went for, but I have also not heard enough.
Jim Steinman is a perfectionist, there are story's of him torturing Meat to get the right vocals,, so I doubt he would put he's name on it if it was not what they wanted. As for Meat?? Hell he would not put out something that was not of the standard required. But again you paid for the song, so you deserve your opinion.
Clean smooth vocals are great, but I'm so glad Meat does not put out fake and unreal vocals like some other ageing artists,
Agree on all counts. If there was no room for debate in music then there would be no point. I see this album very much like Johnny Cash's American albums. There were many life long fans who didn't rate them highly, but for me the raw, aged vocal was the best he ever did. The fact that the production pulled the music right back to put his voice front and centre made it apparent how frail he was, rasping and breathless on occasion. I see this album as Meat being the man he is now as well as the characters of the song. And as I've said previously, there are very few studio albums I know of that make it into the public domain without being exactly as the artist intended.

But in the end it does come down to personal opinions, and Meat himself knows that there will be as many people on one side of the fence as the other...the only thing guaranteed - like with Bat - is that there won't be anyone on the fence.
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Old 18 Jul 2016, 19:47   #29
nikox1
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Originally Posted by ashkent7 View Post
Agree on all counts. If there was no room for debate in music then there would be no point. I see this album very much like Johnny Cash's American albums. There were many life long fans who didn't rate them highly, but for me the raw, aged vocal was the best he ever did. The fact that the production pulled the music right back to put his voice front and centre made it apparent how frail he was, rasping and breathless on occasion. I see this album as Meat being the man he is now as well as the characters of the song. And as I've said previously, there are very few studio albums I know of that make it into the public domain without being exactly as the artist intended.

But in the end it does come down to personal opinions, and Meat himself knows that there will be as many people on one side of the fence as the other...the only thing guaranteed - like with Bat - is that there won't be anyone on the fence.
100% agree, loved Johnny cash on them songs, the pain and emotion just took me away somewhere else.
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Old 18 Jul 2016, 20:42   #30
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Originally Posted by Evil Ernie View Post
Well, than I guess that I disagree with Meat and Jim. I would like to hear the version with perfect vocals.
It wouldn't be the truth of the moment !! It would be forced (FAKE)
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Old 18 Jul 2016, 20:52   #31
Evil One
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Originally Posted by DazLoaf01 View Post
I bought and downloaded the single from iTunes and have had a few weeks to gather my thoughts, so here goes:

While I have huge respect for Meat as an artist, and appreciate his desire to try new sounds and create a character for every song, I cannot help but feel very disappointed by his vocal offering on this track, and on many of the iTunes samples for the rest of the album.
I felt the same as you to begin with, but having heard the whole thing my view has changed. The vocals are a lot better than the samples would lead you to believe. Also Souvenirs and Train Of Love are possibly the worst two songs on the album, so some very strange marketing going on
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Old 18 Jul 2016, 21:11   #32
ashkent7
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Something I just thought that kind of fits in here...I was listening to Jim's Bad For Good album earlier today and listening to that put me very much in mind of Braver.

Jim's vocals were never going to get him in a boyband, but they make each song come alive. His growls in Bad for Good (which he himself said was one of the great things he missed from the Bat 3 version - clearly down to Des-boy) and the desperate sound on songs like Surf's Up where his voice breaks he is going that high. But that is what makes the album...that's what Braver has for having Jim in the mix, so to speak. It has heart, soul and truth.

I've said it before, but to me it is more like listening to a melodramatic soundtrack from a musical no one has seen yet rather than just another album.
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Old 19 Jul 2016, 01:27   #33
CarylB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil One View Post
I felt the same as you to begin with, but having heard the whole thing my view has changed. The vocals are a lot better than the samples would lead you to believe. Also Souvenirs and Train Of Love are possibly the worst two songs on the album, so some very strange marketing going on
Well they're the only two I've heard and I love them both .. so I'm really looking forward to September!!
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Old 19 Jul 2016, 22:50   #34
Monstro
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Sorry, moderated so mod team could discuss before it kicked off.

Apologies, normal??? service will be resumed
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Old 19 Jul 2016, 23:14   #35
glockenspiel
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'Only When I Feel' is for me the only one that sounds like it's been abandoned before reaching a true 'master take' -- But I don't find any of it 'unlistenable'.
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Old 19 Jul 2016, 23:55   #36
nikox1
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I remember that, symphony orchestra dvd I think
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Old 20 Jul 2016, 00:10   #37
ashkent7
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I remember that, symphony orchestra dvd I think
Looks like the original post and reply have gone but yes, I remember "that" waistcoat now
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Old 20 Jul 2016, 00:13   #38
nikox1
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Looks like the original post and reply have gone but yes, I remember "that" waistcoat now
How could anybody forget it
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