24 Minute interview on PBS

[Dick]

yea. think i didnt fully explain. was speaking as a generalization but as u say it doesnt have to become anything, but generally through out the world the bad apples make it so

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Dick

for what its worth I went to a private school in belfast, every morning in assembly we had morning prayers by the school chaplain, by no means was it a religious school but it practiced christian morals. We even had 2 classes for R.E, a moral one and a biblical one.
But yes, what im getting at is there were some student who would be considered an ethnic minority, particularly in an all boys school in belfast. But during the R.E lessons that didnt stop the teacher from inquiring about his muslim beliefs on the various different aspects being studied. It also allowed the students to have a broader understanding, but not once did he feel intimidated in a school where every morning the lords prayer was said and each week he'd have to attend a biblical class. Sometimes i think people just like to make a fuss.

I agree. I went to a Catholic school, simply because my parents judged it to be the best scholastically. Roman Catholicism was taught daily (and pretty emphatically .. "Caryl Simmons, you've got the devil sitting on your Protestant shoulders!!" ) but that simply provided things to talk through with my parents who weren't Catholic, and who did not push any particular belief at me, but rather the message that one needed to be tolerant of others' beliefs, and that of the nuns in particular; my father would say "Remember, the nuns don't have much of a sense of humour or light touch about a belief they've dedicated their lives to."

The thing is that many cultures are based on religious beliefs, so whilst I don't think a public/state school should push one religion (and frankly I don't think the "prayer on the wall" actually did that much pushing), I do see it as valuable for them to give a grounding in the basic tenets of those practised by people you will be sharing your world with, because each will dictate the culture and practices of those who follow them. So understanding for eg fasting, doctrines regarding what some people eat because of their beliefs, or the refusal of Sikhs to wear motor cycle helmets is imo useful, to name just a few simple issues. Most of those whom I have heard argue fiercely against the motor cycle helmet exemption for Sikhs for example, haven't understood either the significance of the turban, nor it's protective strength. I think education has a responsibility to help children understand why people adhere to certain practices, dress in certain ways etc that might otherwise seem odd to them. I mention Sikhism because it's also valuable to understand that one of their central beliefs is to defend the equality of all humans, whatever their beliefs, and eschew discrimination on the basis of creed.

Caryl

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by Dick

for what its worth I went to a private school in belfast, every morning in assembly we had morning prayers by the school chaplain, by no means was it a religious school but it practiced christian morals. We even had 2 classes for R.E, a moral one and a biblical one.
But yes, what im getting at is there were some student who would be considered an ethnic minority, particularly in an all boys school in belfast. But during the R.E lessons that didnt stop the teacher from inquiring about his muslim beliefs on the various different aspects being studied. It also allowed the students to have a broader understanding, but not once did he feel intimidated in a school where every morning the lords prayer was said and each week he'd have to attend a biblical class.

There is a big difference between going to school in Ireland and The Bible Belt of the US.

Sometimes i think people just like to make a fuss.

Agreed. The religious should not make a big fuss about removing religion from schools. I don't see what the fuss is about. It's not like people are stopping them from worshipping.

See what I did there?

[ricgough]

Originally Posted by cowboy

Don't believe I got my facts wrong at all, you need to understand the law a little better. Church and state came all the way from the 14th century. What it means is the state can not tell you how you can worship. The dollar still says in god we can trust. The 2 people that took down that prayer interfered with the civil rights of many. The judge was wrong with his decision and the school system does have the money to fight it. Your right, the US constitution
gives you the right to believe how you believe. the ruling was a violation of the US constitution . bottom line .

....or the right to believe or not believe, which is probably far more fundamental at the core of the issue. frankly the current u.s. THEOCRACY turns the rest of the world off more than anything and contributes to more of the worlds problems than ever widely acknowledged. at the inception of the constitution and until the recent rise of vested interests in world polititcs however the seperation of state and religion is EXACTLY what made america a leading aspirational force in the world. Get a grip people. Humanity comes first. the way you worship or whether you worship at all is personal and is not for wider societal consumption. PERIOD.