Meat on front page BBC website - Apprentice USA

[suzieq]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I knew that you'd say that.

I'm consistant.

Originally Posted by Sarge

Anybody could sing DYELS.

Jessica Simpson couldn't.

[stretch37]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I sometimes wonder if there are still people in the business who are really interested in music or if they focus on numbers only. Maybe it has become more difficult to work with record companies, and maybe it's not easy for people who work for them to make certain decisions, now that many labels belong to large companies like Universal, Sony, Warner...

Ya Sarge, i think your right....And having to go though that many layers makes it hard to break the rules...for somebody like Meat who wants to try new ideas.

the new metal band Linkin Park, a hugely successful band that is highly creative and ever changing similar to Meat, created their own record label and have done quite well with it. Maybe give Mike Chinoda a call??

[stretch37]

If there's anyone who can break the cycle of older artists not being supported as they should, its Meat. He's a figher, and has more ambition i think than a lot of artists from his age group to get the job done.

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by stretch37

If there's anyone who can break the cycle of older artists not being supported as they should, its Meat. He's a figher, and has more ambition i think than a lot of artists from his age group to get the job done.

Right you are

[Dave]

Originally Posted by WarioLoaf

I know its soooo offensive to prudes and the amish, but it'll make huge publicity.

Because the word "dick" was found offensive to people like Tipper Gore, so they push to have the word "banned" and "stickered" as offensive. Thanks to her and her friends, artists who wish to distribute their work in America have their hands tied. It is not mainstream America who are the prudes, it is the select few who wish to "protect" us from our constitutionally granted First Amendment rights. The word "dick" in that reference is a word that if broadcast in that context will cost the radio station a monetary fine by the FCC in America. There would be nothing worse than hearing a Meat Loaf song with a WalMart "beep" in the middle of it.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by CarylB

In the USA it could alienate swathes of middle-America, and would be less likely to get airplay. The kind of negative publicity it could attract, whilst it may benefit some rappers, could well mitigate against sales of a new Meat Loaf album, which I'd have expected Meat to want to sell to the widest demographic.

Sorry, I have to cut this off at the pass. The argument about "middle America" being offended is utter nonsense. This his American history being re-written once again and I must remind people that it was not "middle America" that started the artistic witch hunt against offensive material in recorded media - the brunt of that battle came from the Parent's Music Resource Center (PMRC), who was lead by Tipper Gore (estranged wife of former Vice President Al Gore) and Susan Baker (wife of former President Ronald Reagan;s Chief of Staff James Baker). There were others who were influential and vocal in regard to music censorship and heavily involved with the PMRC in America. However, these were all known as the "Washington Wives" and absolutely do not represent "middle America." I live in middle America, and we do not uphold that belief system. Place the blame where it lies - not with where the populace says it should lie.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Dave

Sorry, I have to cut this off at the pass. The argument about "middle America" being offended is utter nonsense.

Disagree by all means, and put your view .. even say it is "utter nonsense" if that's what you think and you consider it acceptable.

However, I was referring to middle-America not in geographic terms but as in conservative middle-of-the-road America, which is why I used a hyphen; people don't live there, it's a term I used to identify a conservative strata of society. I don't believe my view requires cutting off at the pass, even if it isn't the same as yours.

Tipper Gore et al may well have led the crusade against what they considered offensive material in recordings, but they seem to have the support of many conservative Americans, and it is the latter who I was suggesting would be offended, and whose comments I have seen.

To suggest I am re-writing "American history" is imo stretching things somewhat ..

Caryl

[Evil One]

It is scary when you think where the US may end up, especially with them having such influence over other countries.

[CarylB]

I don't think it's particularly scary. There are plenty of level headed, easy going and open-minded Americans. It's a huge, and hugely diverse country which hasn't done so badly this far, and what influences we take from their culture is really up to us. (The recent tragic events in Texas for eg are unlikely to influence our laws on gun control, arguably of more concern than barring a few words in recordings.) And some might argue that Europe is in danger of going too far in the opposite direction .. particuarly when you look at some of the stuff on cable! I doubt the most severe of American views on censorship are likely to turn back that tide here

Caryl

[LisaT]

Originally Posted by suzieq

Jessica Simpson couldn't.

Aint that the truth!

[allrevvedup]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Reminds me of a Rolling Stones concert I watched recently. Mick Jagger singing a duet with Justin Timberlake. Jagger was so much cooler, sang better, even danced better than Timberlake. I thought: "Justin, you still got a lot to learn."

And the stones have subsequently worked with Jack White and Christina Aguilera on Shine a light, which shows that Jagger & Co. know that they have to remain 'hip' and to keep a young audience because they cannot maintain sales on their own.

Originally Posted by Sarge

I knew that you'd say that. Songs like DYELS always appear to me as if somebody said: "Hey, we have to put something on the album that makes women buy it."

I agree entirely and it's been tapped into by many a record company and a&r man. stereotypically women more than men want to hear a ballad, sometimes it's like a switch off the brain action moving where you don't care if there's no plot, you just want to be entertained.

Nickelback tend to have a trend of releasing a rock single and then immediately followed by a (power) ballad. Aerosmith, and Steven Tyler in particular, have been pushing the pop ballad very hard in the faces of their fans (and if you want to find out how well that goes down, wander over to aeroforceone.com's message board). Even Staind more recently released All I want from their last album to help them reach a wider audience.

The point is that artists and bands, like any other business, need new money and they will go wherever they can to get it, even if it is at the risk of alienating their business.

As for the apprentice (you see I Can get back on topic ) I would suggest Gary Busey will be recognised more for being on this show in the next 6 months than any of the films that he worked on.

I can't say I have very much interest in watching it at all, apart from knowing that Gene Simmons was previously on it and he is incredibly astute.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by CarylB

...it's a term I used to identify a conservative strata of society. I don't believe my view requires cutting off at the pass, even if it isn't the same as yours. Tipper Gore et al may well have led the crusade against what they considered offensive material in recordings, but they seem to have the support of many conservative Americans...

Again, you simply do not know what you are speaking of. Not only do people live in middle-America, such as myself, but also I consider myself of the American Conservative persuasion and let me tell you that what the world has been told about what the Conservatives believe and what a few blowhard ninnies who have been fortunate enough to receive above ample air time in mainstream media and have unjustly propounded as being "Conservative" are simply not the same thing. Either on purpose, or out of ignorance, you are misrepresenting a group that I am grouped in. The raw essence of American Conservationism is smaller government, less control, and more freedom - to include freedom of speech. The true Conservative movement in America (not that portrayed by FoxNews and the like) do not, will not, and never will support any movement that functions to increase governmental control over our lives. That is the simple truth of the matter. It is not mainstream America that is so uptight, it is a vocal minority who are speaking on behalf of a movement they truly do not understand.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by CarylB

(The recent tragic events in Texas for eg are unlikely to influence our laws on gun control, arguably of more concern than barring a few words in recordings.)

There has been no recent tragedy to come from Texas, save for Bush Jr's second term as President, of late. I believe you are speaking of Representative Giffords; however, she represents and is from Arizona - not Texas. They are geographically close, but are not the same state.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Dave

There has been no recent tragedy to come from Texas, save for Bush Jr's second term as President, of late. I believe you are speaking of Representative Giffords; however, she represents and is from Arizona - not Texas. They are geographically close, but are not the same state.

Yes, it was Tucson, I apologise for the mistake; thank you for pointing it out.

As to my earlier comments, I repeat I am talking about conservative middle- America (I did not capitalise it) .. as in moderate, cautious, marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, style and manners. I was not referring to any political party or political movement; I do not know enough about American politics to discuss them. I repeat I was not referring to any geography, and explained this .. If the term can only be used to describe geography in the USA, mea culpa, but I was using the term as it is frequently used in my country ie to those of a conservative persuasion, not in political terms but in terms of their traditional values and resistance to changes they see as in some way harmful to the order, values and traditions they espouse. Such people are to be found in every country in the world. It's a mindset, not a political conviction or place where they live.

It seems we remain two countries divided by a common language, but I have explained what I meant.

In my view, there would be many middle thinking people who would probably find the language in California, (I'll make it clear I'm referring to the song and not the State) and the physical response it suggests in graphic terms, offensive. That's my view. You may not agree with it and think they would universally accept it without demur. Frankly I do not. It's not a fact, (unless it's released we will never know) but it's my view. Yours may be different. Neither is right or wrong, it's just opinon.

Caryl

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by allrevvedup

And the stones have subsequently worked with Jack White and Christina Aguilera on Shine a light, which shows that Jagger & Co. know that they have to remain 'hip' and to keep a young audience because they cannot maintain sales on their own.

Shine A Light also features Buddy Guy, Jack White is a musician who apparently is influenced by "old" music (see the documentary It Might Get Loud) and I doubt that a duet with Christina Aguilera during a live show really makes a big difference with regard to album sales. I don't think that the Stones depend on younger artists to "remain hip". They might not be as popular and influential as they were in the 1960s and 1970s but they've never had problems to attract an audience, people come to their shows in spite of high ticket prices and I think at this point in time they don't have to bother about being "hip". Meat's duet with Marion Raven appeared more as a deperate attempt to gain attention to me (regardless of who was responsible for that) than Mick Jagger singing with Christina Aguilera.

Originally Posted by allrevvedup

Aerosmith, and Steven Tyler in particular, have been pushing the pop ballad very hard in the faces of their fans

I rather listen to songs like Rag Doll than to I Don't Want To Miss A Thing and the like. (Isn't that a Diane Warren song, by the way? )

Originally Posted by allrevvedup

As for the apprentice (you see I Can get back on topic ) I would suggest Gary Busey will be recognised more for being on this show in the next 6 months than any of the films that he worked on.

I hope that won't happen to Meat. I'd rather see him in another great movie like Fight Club or a mean little flick like Pelts than on Celebrity Apprentice. A world in which artists gain recognition rather via such TV shows than because of their actual talents is a sad one, in my opinion.

[Elijah's way]

Meat's duet with Marion Raven appeared more as a deperate attempt to gain attention to me (regardless of who was responsible for that) than Mick Jagger singing with Christina Aguilera.




Really!?! How do you figure that? that just makes no sense, Marion Raven isn't even famous.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Elijah's way

Really!?! How do you figure that? that just makes no sense, Marion Raven isn't even famous.

It does make sense, otherwise they wouldn't have done it. My first thought when I saw the IACBTM video was: "Who is that girl? Where is Patti? Oh, they obviously think the old man can't make it on his own anymore. "

It was probably intended to work as some kind of synergy. Meat Loaf was accompanied by a young, attractive woman and Marion Raven had her name being mentioned along with someone famous and got a song that had already been a hit. And by the way, I doubt that IACBTM would have become No. 1 in Norway if Marion hadn't been involved.

[Elijah's way]

Originally Posted by Sarge

It does make sense, otherwise they wouldn't have done it. My first thought when I saw the IACBTM video was: "Who is that girl? Where is Patti? Oh, they obviously think the old man can't make it on his own anymore. "

It was probably intended to work as some kind of synergy. Meat Loaf was accompanied by a young, attractive woman and Marion Raven had her name being mentioned along with someone famous and got a song that had already been a hit. And by the way, I doubt that IACBTM would have become No. 1 in Norway if Marion hadn't been involved.

yeah your right

[meatfanforlife]

Meat has already stated that they used Marion because he was supposed to jumpstart her career i thought. /shrug

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by Dave

Sorry, I have to cut this off at the pass. The argument about "middle America" being offended is utter nonsense. This his American history being re-written once again and I must remind people that it was not "middle America" that started the artistic witch hunt against offensive material in recorded media - the brunt of that battle came from the Parent's Music Resource Center (PMRC), who was lead by Tipper Gore (estranged wife of former Vice President Al Gore) and Susan Baker (wife of former President Ronald Reagan;s Chief of Staff James Baker). There were others who were influential and vocal in regard to music censorship and heavily involved with the PMRC in America. However, these were all known as the "Washington Wives" and absolutely do not represent "middle America." I live in middle America, and we do not uphold that belief system. Place the blame where it lies - not with where the populace says it should lie.

I think this is an interesting topic to discuss (we've touched on it before), but so as not to drag the thread off topic, I started another one here (ironically, in the Off Topic Forum ):

http://www.mlukfc.com/forums/showthr...665#post536665

[allrevvedup]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Shine A Light also features Buddy Guy, Jack White is a musician who apparently is influenced by "old" music (see the documentary It Might Get Loud) and I doubt that a duet with Christina Aguilera during a live show really makes a big difference with regard to album sales. I don't think that the Stones depend on younger artists to "remain hip". They might not be as popular and influential as they were in the 1960s and 1970s but they've never had problems to attract an audience, people come to their shows in spite of high ticket prices and I think at this point in time they don't have to bother about being "hip". Meat's duet with Marion Raven appeared more as a deperate attempt to gain attention to me (regardless of who was responsible for that) than Mick Jagger singing with Christina Aguilera.

I still think it comes down to getting new money. I mean the reissues, the remixes of Sympathy for the devil etc (which i thought was horrible by the way) is their way of trying to stay in the minds of younger audiences. Not saying it's a bad thing at all (again apart from those remixes!) but it just shows you what a group like the stones have to do. I suppose the beatles and itunes is further proof of that.

Originally Posted by Sarge

I rather listen to songs like Rag Doll than to I Don't Want To Miss A Thing and the like. (Isn't that a Diane Warren song, by the way? )

and yet I don't want to miss a thing was their biggest single in their entire 40 year career. Believe me I'd rather listen to Honkin on bobo or their early blues rock albums but they know what sells.

Originally Posted by Sarge

I hope that won't happen to Meat. I'd rather see him in another great movie like Fight Club or a mean little flick like Pelts than on Celebrity Apprentice. A world in which artists gain recognition rather via such TV shows than because of their actual talents is a sad one, in my opinion.

Tis all about the money, Sarge. I'm not sure if artistic integrity is in existence as much anymore.

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by allrevvedup

... I suppose the beatles and itunes is further proof of that...


...Tis all about the money, Sarge. I'm not sure if artistic integrity is in existence as much anymore.

Money is the key thing here with the Beatles, there's been long standing disputes between Mr Jobs' Apple and the Beatles Apple Corps, stemming back some 30+ years.

Coincidence that the copyright on some of the earlier recordings of the Beatles expires soon, meaning that it's available without Apple Corps gaining any royalties. I think not. It's a last pay day.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by allrevvedup

and yet I don't want to miss a thing was their biggest single in their entire 40 year career. [...] they know what sells.

They obviously do and maybe I'm the only one they didn't sell it to, LOL. I think I'm gonna spend the day watching Rory Gallagher DVDs. Just straight rock, no sappy tearjerkers in sight. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I dislike ballads but I prefer an old, crackling Nick Drake or Sandy Denny (for example) vinyl record to most modern ballads.

Originally Posted by allrevvedup

Tis all about the money, Sarge. I'm not sure if artistic integrity is in existence as much anymore.

*Recalling that interview in which Meat mentioned shows like "Donald Trump's thing" and Claude Monet.* --- I think I need a drink...

[CarylB]

There are many reasons imo for people to appear on these "celebrity" type programmes. Some to earn money, some to try and boost a career which is flagging, some who are media celebrities and whose "fame" is based on notoriety rather than any talent. Then there are shows like Masterchef or Popstar to Opera Star, where some want to be tested and to learn.

Meat has explained why he has appeared on the two he did. Being a judge on Popstar to Operastar made good business sense when he wanted to be based in Europe to promote HCTB; the money he earned from competing in Celebrity Apprentice was for a wonderful charity, plus he saw it as an opportunity to learn; and both would have provided networking opportunities. Neither were done primarily to garner publicity, even if some was generated, and as he says, any you get is fairly shortlived. To me his choices have been shrewd.

I'd agree that many who appear on this type of programme do so for reasons open to criticism, but imo both of Meat's choices have been for good and sound reasons. I get the sense that his appearance on Ghost Hunter was done mainly out of interest and for enjoyment

Caryl

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by CarylB

There are many reasons imo for people to appear on these "celebrity" type programmes. Some to earn money, some to try and boost a career which is flagging, some who are media celebrities and whose "fame" is based on notoriety rather than any talent. Then there are shows like Masterchef or Popstar to Opera Star, where some want to be tested and to learn.

Meat has explained why he has appeared on the two he did. Being a judge on Popstar to Operastar made good business sense when he wanted to be based in Europe to promote HCTB; the money he earned from competing in Celebrity Apprentice was for a wonderful charity, plus he saw it as an opportunity to learn; and both would have provided networking opportunities. Neither were done primarily to garner publicity, even if some was generated, and as he says, any you get is fairly shortlived. To me his choices have been shrewd.

I'd agree that many who appear on this type of programme do so for reasons open to criticism, but imo both of Meat's choices have been for good and sound reasons. I get the sense that his appearance on Ghost Hunter was done mainly out of interest and for enjoyment

Caryl

very true Caryl, but Meat has explained this for everybody too see!! and you are beating your head against a brick wall!! even Meats words will not be taken as the truth, so. there will always be a another reason.

as written above about Marion Raven, why was she in the video? Meat explained this for everybody, but heck no that aint the reason.
its really funny imo, Meat has on lots of occasions had stunners in hes videos [ hot ladys ]. hes a rock star = sex drugs and rock n roll!! just maybe thats another reason she sang on it? thats what sells. Britney did not sell 50 million records because of her 6 octave vocal range , more to do with skimpy outfits imo