Kasim working with Jim - Page 5

renegadeangel · 27 Feb 2011, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

I would have thought that new Steinman material on shop shelves could only higher his profile.
Not very much, granted, but it couldn't do any harm

Most music lovers would tend to agree. But with the potential to make millions out of this, it all comes down to money.

I think the name Bat Out Of Hell will always be linked to Meat, and he's the first person people will think of on hearing the name.
If people see the show and like the music, it'll be the Meat Loaf section of HMV they head to, not the Jim Steinman version, wether Meat is involved or not.

I'm not saying it's fair, i'm just saying it's so.

And that is one of the biggest fears the producers of the musical have. From the beginning it has been pretty much apparent that they do not want Meat involved. Funny how they may end up begging to get involved at some point.

Evil One · 27 Feb 2011, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

And that is one of the biggest fears the producers of the musical have.

I'd have thought with the age of them that their biggest fear is dying before the musical is finished.

loaferman61 · 27 Feb 2011, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil One

Working with Meat is probably the best way for Jim to make any money. If the dark forces that control Jim prevent him from doing so then it is less likely that Jim will put out anything new. It's a theory that these dark forces are simply waiting for Jim to pop his clogs so they can cash in. They stand to make more money if they have more unreleased stuff to release.

I have often thought this as well, but it has been so long and the music biz has changed so much I'm not sure the payoff will be what they think on a posthumous Jim release. It will probably be good money, but his estate will be worth more probably that the unreleased stuff.

AndrewG · 27 Feb 2011, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil One

I'd have thought with the age of them that their biggest fear is dying before the musical is finished.

Indeed.

But indeed I have to say to think of Bat out of Hell without Meat would be like trying to market "We will rock you" without the Queen brand and Mamma Mia as a Catherine Johnson, Benny Andersson and Björn Ulvaeus musical.

How could this ever work?

They will HAVE to use the Meat Loaf name and I personally don't like that as I don't think it's any different than Meat doing Bat 3 without Jim which he has regretted.

**Monstro** · 28 Feb 2011, 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG

But indeed I have to say to think of Bat out of Hell without Meat would be like trying to market "We will rock you" without the Queen brand and Mamma Mia as a Catherine Johnson, Benny Andersson and Björn Ulvaeus musical.

How could this ever work?

They will HAVE to use the Meat Loaf name and I personally don't like that as I don't think it's any different than Meat doing Bat 3 without Jim which he has regretted.

Really good point, I never thought of that, two sides to every penny

Jayd · 28 Feb 2011, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Indeed.

But indeed I have to say to think of Bat out of Hell without Meat would be like trying to market "We will rock you" without the Queen brand and Mamma Mia as a Catherine Johnson, Benny Andersson and Björn Ulvaeus musical.

How could this ever work?

They will HAVE to use the Meat Loaf name and I personally don't like that as I don't think it's any different than Meat doing Bat 3 without Jim which he has regretted.

Nail hit right on the head there. Meat and Jim, make up Bat Out Of Hell, not one without the other as we seen with Bat 3. But in all honesty, does Meat want to actually have any involvement with this musical, if he was asked, and will this musical ever see the light of day. I am sure I read that this is going to be one hell of a production, and the way money is tight nowadays, I am sure companies won't take much risks, unless they are certain, money will come flowing in.

**The Flying Mouse** · 28 Feb 2011, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil One

I'd have thought with the age of them that their biggest fear is dying before the musical is finished.

I thought it was that Crawford would be offered the lead

Quote:

Originally Posted by loaferman61

I have often thought this as well, but it has been so long and the music biz has changed so much I'm not sure the payoff will be what they think on a posthumous Jim release. It will probably be good money, but his estate will be worth more probably that the unreleased stuff.

The unreleased stuff will be a nice bonus, but the royalties from records and musicals running (I'm thinking the Bat albums and the Tanz productions) should keep someone in lollypops for an awful long time.

loaferman61 · 28 Feb 2011, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

The unreleased stuff will be a nice bonus, but the royalties from records and musicals running (I'm thinking the Bat albums and the Tanz productions) should keep someone in lollypops for an awful long time.

I agree, the unreleased will be nice - more than most of us will ever see - but the entire estate is where the real money is. I have to wonder why Jim who seems so intelligent lets this go on. Nothing released in who remembers how long and working for years on musicals that seem to never happen. I assume Jim doesn't need any more money and just does what he wants. I hope his will leaves it all to his cat. I can't help but wonder how manipulated he is and if his creative well has reached a crawl or if he cares that there seem to be people awaiting him to "pop his clogs".

**The Flying Mouse** · 28 Feb 2011, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by loaferman61

I hope his will leaves it all to his cat.

I suddenly have a disquietening image of David Sonnenberg in a cat outfit with a hole cut out for his face, pacing round a mansion with a bejeweled golden chalice full of milk, telling a bunch of lawyers "of course i'm Mr Steinman's cat"

**allrevvedup** · 28 Feb 2011, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

I suddenly have a disquietening image of David Sonnenberg in a cat outfit with a hole cut out for his face, pacing round a mansion with a bejeweled golden chalice full of milk, telling a bunch of lawyers "of course i'm Mr Steinman's cat"

you really have too much time on your hands...

**The Flying Mouse** · 28 Feb 2011, 21:29

That's why i'm a mod

But getting back to the topic of the musical, I think it's rather telling that Jim has got Kasim on board as it would seem to indicate that Jim wants to stick as closely to the original arrangement as possible.

The most puzzling thing is why is it all taking so long if it's all old material?

renegadeangel · 28 Feb 2011, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

That's why i'm a mod

But getting back to the topic of the musical, I think it's rather telling that Jim has got Kasim on board as it would seem to indicate that Jim wants to stick as closely to the original arrangement as possible.

The most puzzling thing is why is it all taking so long if it's all old material?

I doubt very much we're going to hear the 1977 version of BAT OUT OF HELL. I'm pretty sure that Jim has rerecorded all the songs along with a few new ones so that it is going to be Jim Steinmans Bat Out of Hell the Musical.
His and his alone.

**allrevvedup** · 28 Feb 2011, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

The most puzzling thing is why is it all taking so long if it's all old material?

a combination of him being a perfectionist and his health over the last few years methinks

loaferman61 · 28 Feb 2011, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

I suddenly have a disquietening image of David Sonnenberg in a cat outfit with a hole cut out for his face, pacing round a mansion with a bejeweled golden chalice full of milk, telling a bunch of lawyers "of course i'm Mr Steinman's cat"

Where's Rinkoff in all of this? He also seems to have a stake in whatever Jim leaves when he departs - providing that Jim is really mortal.

glamourgirl · 28 Feb 2011, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayd

Nail hit right on the head there. Meat and Jim, make up Bat Out Of Hell, not one without the other as we seen with Bat 3. But in all honesty, does Meat want to actually have any involvement with this musical, if he was asked, and will this musical ever see the light of day. I am sure I read that this is going to be one hell of a production, and the way money is tight nowadays, I am sure companies won't take much risks, unless they are certain, money will come flowing in.

Jim didn't want any involvement with Meat's upcoming album, so why would Meat want any involvement with the musical? The musical won't help Meat's career any. The people interested in seeing the Bat musical will be the people who know the music and already own Meat's albums. If people aren't already a fan of the Bat albums, I can't imagine them taking any interest in this musical.

stretch37 · 28 Feb 2011, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamourgirl

Jim didn't want any involvement with Meat's upcoming album, so why would Meat want any involvement with the musical? The musical won't help Meat's career any. The people interested in seeing the Bat musical will be the people who know the music and already own Meat's albums. If people aren't already a fan of the Bat albums, I can't imagine them taking any interest in this musical.

nobody under the age of 50 anyway....most don't know much about BOOH. Besides Meat would never agree to it, he wants to create not revisit 80 year old material

Evil One · 28 Feb 2011, 23:02

34 year old material that are still some of the best songs ever written. Just because you think new=better, it doesn't mean that everyone else will.

stretch37 · 28 Feb 2011, 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil One

34 year old material that are still some of the best songs ever written. Just because you think new=better, it doesn't mean that everyone else will.

I dont think new = better. The songs on bat are some of the most epic songs ever written.

All im saying is that most younger people dont know much about Meat, so a bat musical with only old songs would have to be catered and marketed for an older audience. So i was agreeing with what she said

duke knooby · 28 Feb 2011, 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch37

nobody under the age of 50 anyway....most don't know much about BOOH. Besides Meat would never agree to it, he wants to create not revisit 80 year old material

you may well be right, but it didn't stop we will rock you, or the abba musical becoming huge hits

stretch37 · 28 Feb 2011, 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke knooby

you may well be right, but it didn't stop we will rock you, or the abba musical becoming huge hits

yeah i can see it as an entirely separate project happening at the same time, or between Meat's new material getting done...if Meat and Jim collaborated on a bat musical, it could be a huge hit

duke knooby · 28 Feb 2011, 23:14

the thing with the bat songs is they have proven to be timeless, they seem to appeal to people for whatever reason (and still sell)

AndrewG · 01 Mar 2011, 00:29

What I really have to say in defence of Meat too is that what he brought to the stage was the theatre anyway, the little sketches during Paradise and many other songs, the big fat man acting as if he was a slim energetic rock star, getting you out of your seats, making you sing along. In my opinion anything that gets cooked up with stage sets and actors and singers such as Rob Evan could never top that stuff. I feel the music has been there and done it. This is perhaps my main problem with a Bat musical. I much preferred if Jim had tried to relaunch the Batman idea with mostly unknown songs. Certainly after the Nolan reboot of the films it could have worked I think.

loaferman61 · 01 Mar 2011, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamourgirl

Jim didn't want any involvement with Meat's upcoming album, so why would Meat want any involvement with the musical? The musical won't help Meat's career any. The people interested in seeing the Bat musical will be the people who know the music and already own Meat's albums. If people aren't already a fan of the Bat albums, I can't imagine them taking any interest in this musical.

If there is a CD for the "Bat" musical, and I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be given the last I heard it would be staged in the UK, it would be insane not to have a Meat - Jim song on there ("Body" would be perfect) I'm pretty sure Jim already has it worked out to where Meat could just add vocals. If Jim does this without Meat I see it failing in a major way. It may even with Meat, but he's their best chance to create a buzz in the media. The way to do that is a single and Meat appearing at the premiere to get press.

renegadeangel · 01 Mar 2011, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by loaferman61

If there is a CD for the "Bat" musical, and I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be given the last I heard it would be staged in the UK, it would be insane not to have a Meat - Jim song on there ("Body" would be perfect) I'm pretty sure Jim already has it worked out to where Meat could just add vocals. If Jim does this without Meat I see it failing in a major way. It may even with Meat, but he's their best chance to create a buzz in the media. The way to do that is a single and Meat appearing at the premiere to get press.

I'm thinking more and more they are going to rerecord all the songs from both BATS and some new songs and sell the whole thing off as a reimagining of BAT OUT OF HELL. Remember, it's being called Jim Steinman's Bat out of Hell so it will be strictly his interpretation.
The only way they'll go to Meat for anything will be out of desperation.

duke knooby · 01 Mar 2011, 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

The only way they'll go to Meat for anything will be out of desperation.

that sounds very cold...

they might go to meat for lots of reasons, or they might not, or something might happen, or not

28 Feb 2011, 21:29	#111
The Flying Mouse Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half. Join Date: 06.08.2002 Location: In the middle of nowhere near the end of the line. Posts: 16,104	That's why i'm a mod But getting back to the topic of the musical, I think it's rather telling that Jim has got Kasim on board as it would seem to indicate that Jim wants to stick as closely to the original arrangement as possible. The most puzzling thing is why is it all taking so long if it's all old material?

28 Feb 2011, 23:02	#117
Evil One Mega Loafer Join Date: 15.01.2007 Posts: 5,192	34 year old material that are still some of the best songs ever written. Just because you think new=better, it doesn't mean that everyone else will.

28 Feb 2011, 23:14	#121
duke knooby Mega Loafer Join Date: 24.06.2005 Location: belfast Posts: 17,871	the thing with the bat songs is they have proven to be timeless, they seem to appeal to people for whatever reason (and still sell)

01 Mar 2011, 00:29	#122
AndrewG I hope your salmon sucks! Join Date: 18.01.2004 Location: Northamptonshire Posts: 7,077	What I really have to say in defence of Meat too is that what he brought to the stage was the theatre anyway, the little sketches during Paradise and many other songs, the big fat man acting as if he was a slim energetic rock star, getting you out of your seats, making you sing along. In my opinion anything that gets cooked up with stage sets and actors and singers such as Rob Evan could never top that stuff. I feel the music has been there and done it. This is perhaps my main problem with a Bat musical. I much preferred if Jim had tried to relaunch the Batman idea with mostly unknown songs. Certainly after the Nolan reboot of the films it could have worked I think.