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anotherday
09 Sep 2016, 04:09
***POST YOUR BRAVER THAN WE ARE REVIEWS HERE***

I thought it would be COOL to have all of our reviews in one place!

I'll be posting mine and my boyfriends soon! WHATS YOURS?

Wario
09 Sep 2016, 05:17
Where to start.... this album leaves a lot to be desired but has a track that fills my desires and then some.

Before I go on, I am not saying this is Meat's worst album nor am I bashing it. Its not a bad record but its not a fantastic one either.

WHO NEEDS THE YOUNG
The opening track, "Who Needs the Young" starts off with a lot of potential. I love the 50's prom-style "bum-bum-bums" Its when Meat comes in, the lines don't have the punch they should have. A few fantastic punchlines get drowned out. "Is there anyone left who can ~~~~" sounds strained. nor does "Is there anyone left who can dream" has no diction. Parts are way too fast to let the lines breath. Its a very weird song and very polarizing.

Braver Than We Are (Going All The Way Is Just the Start)
This masterpiece is just that. A 12 minute rock opera that we have been missing since 1993. The part I don't really dig is the "There are secrets I never could tell" bridge.

Speaking In Tongues
its place and pacing on the album works in my opinion. yes, the bridge is fantastic as is the line "You got spark, I got wood"
I wish the full band would come in and rock up the finale, maybe live.
It really is an erection of the Heart. I just wish there was more.
Stacy kills this.

Loving You is A Dirty Job (Somebody's Gotta Do It)
Bonnie's version holds no candle to this version. This is absolutely fantastic.
I just wish Bonnie was on it. Missed opportunity for a proper duet between the two.

Souvenirs
This Song has much meaning, its absolutely fantastic. The sax on Dave's end is outstanding and meat is ON POINT. One of Jims hidden gems, Im surprised it got picked. Even more surprised its not the finale.

It Hurts (Only When I Feel)
The songs lyrics are great, here the vocal take caused this song to fall apart. I understand his perfect vocal probably didn't have much emotion in it but The lyrics will bring it out. This sounds like it was recorded at a soundcheck like Blue Sky was. The vocal production (or lack of) was so distracting on this one.

More
I really catchy tune. I actually really dig this one, and the synthesizers. I can totally see this being mashed with Do It! If meat tours again.

Godz
The lyrics do not fit the song. Hearing Bolero for so long as an instrumental, this sounds like the guys on youtube that put lyrics to theme music for movies and TV Shows. Meat sounds fine, its just I wish i twas an instrumental.

Total Eclipse of the Skull of Our Country
What happened.... This song Ive been dreaming of meat doing, but the best part, Let The Revels Begin, was replaced with essentially Total Eclipse of the Heart.

I wish it was this:
buVA8-RKICY

Train of Love
This, when I first heard the demo a year or so ago, was the last song i thought was Meat's hit list.

Admittedly Meats version is an improvement but a forgettable entry into the repertoire. Why was Souvenirs not the ending?

Dirty Water
Sounds like something that shouldve been a bonus track to Handbasket. better than Train of Love. Tho I can see why it never made an album outside this Demo. Is it just me or is meats voice really low in the mix?

OVERALL:
6/10

CURRENT ALBUM RANK:

Bat 2
Blind before I Stop
Bat
Hang Cool Teddy Bear
Bad Attitude
Welcome to the Neighborhood
Couldnt have Said It Better
Stoney & Meatloaf
Dead Ringer
Braver Than We Are
Bat 3
Hell in a Handbasket
Midnight

stretch37
09 Sep 2016, 05:39
Wario I like your review. Good to be honest. I'm glad it has one that you really wanted dude. Cheers :cool:

anotherday
09 Sep 2016, 05:55
NOTE: THIS IS MY BOYFRIENDS REVIEW. I will post my review when I get the chance to process my thoughts, but I wanted to share this with you all.


Meat Loaf Braver Than We Are Review

An amazing capstone to an incredible career! Lightning Struck Thrice.

WHO NEEDS THE YOUNG:
The first track on the album hits HARD. Meat sings about the character’s life not being what it was with passion, fire, and conviction. “MY VOICE JUST ISN’T WHAT IT WAS!” he belts frantically, almost as if the character of Meat Loaf comes out for a second, instead of the 19-year-old character in the song. It is BRILLIANT. The perfect opening to the album, IMO.

GOING ALL THE WAY IS JUST THE START:
Perfection. Absolute perfection. From the opening lines to the end, it sweeps high and low, Ellen and Karla are WONDERFUL and kill the song. Meat belts in his lower register over and over again and it works. Like the latest Apple product, it just WORKS. This is what we have been missing since 1993. This is the song to share with your friends and family who are on the fence about this album.

SPEAKING IN TONGUES:
I’ve always thought this song should have been done years ago, but I’m so glad it wasn’t now. This version kills the demo version I heard from Jim a few years ago, and kills any other recording I’ve heard. I’ve seen people say it doesn’t “go anywhere” but I highly disagree. Its one of Jims hidden gems, one of his best, and the new bridge brought me to tears the first time I heard it.

LOVING YOU IS A DIRTY JOB (BUT SOMEBODY’S GOTTA DO IT):
Ho. Lee. Shit. Meat hasn’t been this on point for a duet since CHSIB. THAT is how you do a Meat Loaf duet, ladies and gentlemen. Bonnies version IMO doesn’t hold a candle to this. Would I have liked to hear Bonnie and Meat do the song together? Sure. But I am a realist sometimes…It is perfect as is.

SOUVENIRS:
So much pain. So much emotion. So much heartbreak. So much MEAT. The meaning(s) to this song are incredibly complex. I LOVE when Meat gets quiet and almost whispers, as if exhausted; “Take my heart…drain it dry…I won’t blame you now, cause I know you really tried…” – That entire section shook me to the core when I first heard it, and every time I listen to the song, it almost stops me in my tracks.

IT HURTS (ONLY WHEN I FEEL):
This is incredibly complex for as short as it is. The pain in the character’s voice is perfect. As much as I would LOVE to hear the “perfect vocal” version we’ve heard about that Meat scrapped, I’m more than happy with this. You can FEEL the pain in your heart, in your soul, that the character is going through. Some might call it a distraction, but I call it beauty.

MORE:
Not your typical Meat Loaf song but its super catchy. I dig this tune so much. The synths are incredible. Reminded me a lot of DO IT or DON’T (if DON’T had a different backing track). “AND I NEED ALL THE LOVE I CAN GET…I WANT MORE!” the backing vocals and Meat belt out. Who doesn’t want more? In life? In love? In sex? It leaves me wanting…you guessed it, MORE!

GODZ:
After hearing this for years as Borelos of Fire, I’ll admit this was the one song that, at first, threw me off. The lyrics are strong, and have a lot of powerful relevance in today’s world “In this country…a man with a dream needs luck…only if someone with power will help him to make all his dreams come true…” could easily be put into context in quite a few conversations, political or otherwise. Its powerful, its brash, it’s a different take on Meat Loaf.

SKULL OF YOUR COUNTRY:
I’ve heard a few versions of this from the 80’s and while those were good (with Ted Neeley, Alan Merrill, et all performing the song with Meat) this is REALLY well done. Cian ROCKS the “Turn Arounds” with soul and passion and I couldn’t be happier with how this one turned out. “THERE ARE DRONES ON FIRE SCREAMING!” Meat belts, and it hits you right in the gut.

TRAIN OF LOVE:
The closing track on what is (supposedly) the last Meat Loaf album starts with a bang and never lets go. Meat has stated that this song is about a 19-year-old trying to find himself, and when you take in that context, the lyrics take on a whole new meaning. The last lines “I don’t even know who I am…” ring in your ears long after the song is over and had me questioning who I was, I was so drawn into the song. It’s not Jims most poetic masterpiece, but its straight forward and filled with drive and soul, that’s what matters.

Overall, this is the best Meat Loaf album we’ve been treated to since Hang Cool Teddy Bear, and once again proves why Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman were MEANT to work together. Over the years, there have been criticisms launched at both Meat and Jim for various things; “Oh, Meat can’t sing anymore!” “Jim? He can’t write anymore!” – This album proves everyone wrong. Meat and Jim are just as powerful, just as relevant as ever. They’re BOTH Braver Than We Are…

9/10 (Its missing BODY...but we all know why)

stretch37
09 Sep 2016, 05:59
NOTE: THIS IS MY BOYFRIENDS REVIEW. I will post my review when I get the chance to process my thoughts, but I wanted to share this with you all.

A wonderful review. I got chills. Thanks for posting anotherday :-)

Wario
09 Sep 2016, 07:03
its missing BODY.

Ya, its absence is noticeable.

Each record has at least two or three "man that would be a good rock hit" on it. CHSIB had DIST and Testify, HCTB had If It Rains and Los Angeloser and Running Away From Me and Like A Rose, HIAHB had Giving tree and Live or Die, Bat 3 had anything but Cry Over Me...

this has GATW and..... More?

Mr. Happy
09 Sep 2016, 10:43
Who Needs the Young is just bizarre, and even though I've had months to process it I still don't know what to make of it. I think I like it. Meat's vocals work really well here.

Gods is amazing. I could listen to the walking bass in the last chorus all day without a problem. How great is that hook?

I'm just hearing Skull of Your Country for the very first time now as I write this. The transition from Gods is fantastic. I don't miss Let the Revels Begin. The guitar solo in the middle seems a bit aimless. I like it!

Loving You doesn't hold a candle to Bonnie's version, but the original is so definitive that I guess it was never going to. I do like the rockier production/arrangement. This song has some of Meat's strongest vocals on Braver.

The sax intro to Souvenirs is the best thing on the album. It's the best thing on any Meat Loaf album. The song itself maybe runs a few minutes too long but they're an awesome few awesome minutes.

Only When I Feel is unlistenable.

More is okay. Great transition from Only When I Feel. I love the explosive opening. This is another one that feels like it runs a few minutes too long, although I do like the new lyrics and I wouldn't want to cut them. The muffled "I want More!" warbles at the end are jarring. He does a similar thing at the end of Gods ("Fire!") that also grates on me.

Train of Love is kind of just...there. It feels far too conventional alongside everything else on the album. Doesn't do much for me, personally.

Going All the Way is Going All the Way. I still think it feels a bit cobbled together (one review somewhere said piecemeal, and I think that's right on the money), but it's grown on me over the last few months. The Say a Prayer coda is beautiful. I'd be interested to know where they're getting 6 movements from.

The new arrangement for Speaking in Tongues is beautiful, but it's in too high a key for Meat. Drowning him out with the other vocalists doesn't hide that. The new bridge still feels grafted on/unnatural to me, and "Erections of the Heart" is just a stupid line. Stacy sounds incredible.

That's my stream-of-consciousness review as I listen back to it for the first time in a few weeks. Overall, I think it's pretty solid. The main things that stand out to me are:

A) The sequencing is bizarre. It blows its load right at the start, meaning that by the time you get to the end of Souvenirs you've heard just about everything worth listening to. I don't like Train of Love as a closer, especially considering the alternatives.

B) This 'style' of singing is not appropriate for this type of music. Every song on Braver, with the exception of Who Needs the Young and maybe Gods, needs a very strong, melodic vocal, and none of them get it. It really detracts from what are some really great songs.

I haven't heard the outtakes yet. Very interested to hear the new Prize Fight Lover.

ashkent7
09 Sep 2016, 11:25
I posted mine back in July when I sent it to Jim. My opinion hasn't changed. I loved the completely unashamed belief everyone involved has in the album. "It doesn't fit in the music industry". We don't care. "It isn't radio friendly" Go f$%£ yourself. That is the attitude that seems to have formed the creative process, as opposed to say the approach of Desmond Child that effective killed most of Bat 3.

Braver is an album that should never have been made or released, just like Bat Out of Hell 40 years ago, as it is so far away from what is expected of popular music and it never tries to fit in anywhere. This album is the closing instalment of THE greatest musical partnership in history, and its greatest strengths lie in its carefully plotted flaws. My review, slightly edited for coherency of the bits that were written in a frenzy two months ago, is below. I've taken out the preamble here too - we don't need a history lesson here.

On first listen, there are some things instantly noticeable – the album is not full of perfectly pitched vocals like most people seem to want these days. It is not full of radio friendly pop songs, although it contains some of the most memorable and catchy songs of Meat and Steinman’s career. It is an album that all but drips with raw, passionate drama that would make Wagner (the composer not the X Factor contestant) weep with anguish. THIS is the album Bat Out Of Hell III should have been, and THIS is quite possibly the biggest middle finger to the current music scene that has ever been released. People are going to hate this record. People are going to love this record. But more than that, people are going to feel with this record. The lyrics tell a story, the music seduces you and pulls you into the world in which the story is being told. These are not half-baked pop lyrics. They are full on, relevant and powerful.

As an album overview, the production – by Paul Crook – is outstanding. Bold and experimental, grand and subtle when it needs to be, again something that seems to be missing from much of today’s music. Another highlight is the stunning backing vocals arranged by Justin Avery, phrased and produced in an amazing collage of sounds, emotions and in a couple of cases completely off the wall theatrics. Musically the album is sound. Each song in its own world, with its own rules. And then we have the main vocals, a point which will cause the love/hate factor for many.

Meat is not thirty years old any more, he is heading towards an age where many have given up and are soaking up the easy life. But that has never been his style. Meat has never sounded his age as much as he does on this album; gruff at times, frail at others, sometimes resorting to a low baritone growl. This is not the vocal performance of two decades ago, this is Meat now, musically presenting a drama for the ears. His vocal is sometimes rough, and in many cases in a lower range to much of this previous work, but it works in the context of the album for those who, and we return to that point again, “get it”. The more you listen, the more it all just clicks. These are not your regular songs. There is no auto-tune here. It is raw, unashamed, blood and guts, anguished rock opera that will likely never be seen again. In a basic, ground level comparison, I fully expect Meat’s vocals to come up against the same critical mauling that the likes of Bob Dylan, Nick Cave and Tom Waits have constantly defied their whole careers. It is not for everyone, but I guarantee, let the album play a few times and not only will you start to see the bigger picture, but there will be words and melodies that you just cannot get away from and will linger with you long after. Compared to Meat’s previous two albums, which while both having their merits have lacked that special ingredient to make them memorable, this shows why no one quite does Steinman like Meat Loaf, but equally no-one brings to Meat Loaf what Steinman brings to Meat Loaf.

Here is my track by track analysis of the album.

Who Needs The Young as an opener is just inspired. It's like a creepy, mishmash circus has just rolled into town and the ringmaster is stepping up to the crowd. There is a dark comedy about it – the Steinman touch. It has been said that the track was originally destined to be part of the original Bat album, and considering it is one of Steinman’s oldest pieces that is plausible enough, but it was considered too vile for the times. Once again, something that cannot be argued against. Meat’s precise delivery of every syllable, something that rings through the album, heightens the bizarre air around the song. Backing vocals under the arrangement of Justin Avery are spectacular and not unlike some of Steinman’s own arrangements of the past, and again they add to this strange circus of horrors feel and engulf you in a multi-layered, visual masterpiece for the ears. Sorry for the repetition but you just don’t get that in any other music out there today.

If there was a song to be released as a single (and some would question whether in today’s convoluted singles market where everything from celebrity deaths to political agendas can dictate chart positions), then Going All the Way was always going to be the radio defying track to break out. Known to followers of Steinman’s other work, the track is better known as Braver Than We Are, as seen in a track performed by Karine Hannah (featuring a dance music backing track) and in the smash musical Tanz Der Vampire. Partially rewritten, rearranged and boasting an almost 12 minute run time, Going All The Way Is Just The Start (A Song In Six Movements) could well be the final sparkling jewel in the Steinman crown. As Steinman wrote in Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through, “There’s always something magic, there’s always something new”, and as with his previous epics that has never been truer than here. From a quiet, subtle opening, the song progresses through its aforementioned movements, falling and rising similar to 1993’s I’d Do Anything For Love (But I Won’t Do That), and building to a six minute culmination that is quite possibly the most stunning piece of musicality I have heard in my life. Meat is ably supported throughout by Ellen Foley (better known as the female vocalist from Paradise by the Dashboard Light) and Karla DeVito (who performed Paradise during Meat’s early tours and appears in its video), who help elevate the song even further. It is an indescribable piece that is both hopefully optimistic and devastatingly honest with a melody that just soars into the heavens and beyond. The song title, which is a line that also appeared at the beginning of the music video for Anything For Love, is not only quintessential Steinman but probably his defining one. He has gone all the way on many occasions and it just never seems to be enough. Going All The Way is a song to live your life by. It's a call to everyone to take all they can from life, live every moment and push everything to limit and then push further while you can. A true masterpiece.

Speaking in Tongues is the album’s Two Out Of Three, gentle, subtle and containing some of the excellent wordplay that comes with most Steinman tracks. Previously performed live by Steinman’s The Dream Engine group, a new bridge was added for this studio recording which includes some of the most prolific and true lyrics on any song, as well as a classic Steinmanism in the line “An erection of the heart”. Meat’s mellow vocal is complimented by additional vocals to create something ethereal and emotional.

Loving You's a Dirty Job (But Somebody’s Got To Do It) is best known as a duet between Bonnie Tyler and Todd Rundgren when it was produced by Steinman for her album. Here it is given a musically modern twist, again a sense of building throughout the song to its conclusion. It will gain obvious comparisons to the previous version, and one thing of note here is that Meat’s careful and deliberate pronunciation is one thing that stands out, when every one of those lyrics is heard and understood, compared to Rundgren’s original vocal which was sometimes harder to discern. A completely different arrangement and performance style, again making this a track that people will either love or hate.

Souvenirs is another early Steinman track now getting the Meat Loaf treatment, albeit with something a little reminiscent of a late 70s/early 80s Bob Dylan thanks to some wonderful organ and horns. As with so many songs, there are links to previously released works – specifically the melodic similarity to Left in The Dark which Meat recorded for 1995’s Welcome To The Neighborhood, which featured on Steinman’s own Bad For Good album and, for completeness, was also released by Barbara Streisand. Souvenirs predates these and was probably the first time the melody was used. This is one of the things that the album has going for it in abundance, much of what you hear sounds instantly familiar yet new thanks to small sections of melody, repeated lyrics and chord progressions that are all part of the Steinman trademark. Another lyrical tour de force, containing the same heart-wrenching grit of classic tracks such as For Crying Out Loud, and coming in at over 8 minutes long is another standout piece on the album.

Only When I Feel as the shortest piece is packed with more passion than probably even Meat has ever recorded and if it's piano thunder you're looking for then this is where you will find it. The track was originally destined for Bat 3 as part of the song that became (If It Ain’t Broke) Break It – something that seems to have been fated in that it was discarded from the album where it would not have been given the Grand Guignol treatment it receives here. There is something about the track that could almost make it a prelude to Anything For Love – in that way that all Steinman songs seem to fit together in a complex puzzle. Meat went on record as saying he abandoned a perfect vocal on this as he had to sing it as though he were in pain, and for me at least that works. Another of those tracks that some people are going hate and pull apart, but in the context of the concept of the song, a harsh imperfect vocal is what is needed. The small sadness is that we will never know what the full song, including Break It, would have sounded like done under this production.

More was originally recorded by the Sisters of Mercy and has been used in MTV’s Wuthering Heights remake. A modern, driving rocker which comes in two parts, one of which will be familiar again to Steinman fans who have heard his Batman demos where a large section was reworked into Catwoman’s Song. Meat’s vocal again changes throughout the track, pulling back on some parts and growling through on others. This is a straight up rock track, but once again comes with that alternative sound that encompasses the whole album.

Godz is another “long lost” Steinman piece that will sound familiar to fans of Tanz Der Vampire. The thundering piano and drum base of the song are based on Bolero, while the track itself is a choral, theatrical piece that could have come straight from something like Carmen. It is the type of track you will struggle to find on any other popular rock or pop album, mainly because it takes balls to do anything this different and expect to get anywhere. It is safe to say that if an unknown artist attempted, they would have the same struggle Meat and Jim did back in the late 70s. It also adds to the nostalgia that this album carries with it, and something of a full circle “end of show” feel that everything seems to glide towards. The Bolero theme was used as an introduction in the original Bat Tour, more nostalgia for those old time fans.

Skull of Your Country is another track that originated in the 70s under a different title. Considering in technical terms this is around 40 years old, Steinman has made a song that is as relevant now with powerful imagery as anything released in the last decade. The song also features a section based on the “Turn Around” lyric from another Bonnie Tyler hit, Total Eclipse of The Heart. Non fans may well believe this to be reworking from that song, where in truth this, or a version of it, predated Total Eclipse by some time. Its inclusion here once again makes something unfamiliar instantly recognisable.

Train of Love is a fun closer to the album. Again based on a song written back in the 70s, this had that bouncy, energetic quality of Dead Ringer For Love. After all that has gone before, the song acts as the singer seeming to question everything about himself, the world...everything. It doesn't need to be anything more than what it is. A funky pop rocker that is littered with classic lines from various other songs to bring the album to a well rounded, rocking all night close.

To summarise, this is an album that has been a long time coming, and if you are on board with the direction and the style that I has been done, as I was from the first moment, then this is likely to be right up there in your estimation with anything the pair have put out in the past. Braver Than We Are, with an abundance of bonus materials including demos and bonus tracks across its various releases, is something the world has been deprived of for a long time, and, if only history told a different story, could have been heard long ago when the promise of more to come could be realised. I have not listened to the album yet without feeling emotional by the quality of what I am listening to combined with the overwhelming sadness that this is the last time we will hear a full album like this again.

ThatWriterGuy
09 Sep 2016, 14:42
I've been an advocate of this album since day one, and although I've heard it I wanted to save my thoughts until release day so it didn't colour anyone else's opinion of the album. But, yeah, it's safe to say that I love it. The songs, the epic nature of the entire narrative, and most of all I love Meat's voice. It's not that soaring and huge voice from BAT, but it's the RIGHT voice for this album and this point in time - for me, at least. I'm really digging it. Every track.

andythemeatloafan
09 Sep 2016, 14:53
Im afraid for me, personally.. (and Ive followed meat since I was 7....) Im afraid I didnt like 70% of the album, maybe Ive just come to expect... far too much, but for me.. it felt.. rushed and.. I wont say too much really.. (hope I aint annoyed you all, but thats just my feelings :( )

ThatWriterGuy
09 Sep 2016, 14:54
Particularly love GODZ. The character narrative really gets me, and I love that it sounds like it could almost belong to Queen's A Night At The Opera or News of the World (definitely a 'Death on Two Legs' vibe in places).

ashkent7
09 Sep 2016, 15:26
Im afraid for me, personally.. (and Ive followed meat since I was 7....) Im afraid I didnt like 70% of the album, maybe Ive just come to expect... far too much, but for me.. it felt.. rushed and.. I wont say too much really.. (hope I aint annoyed you all, but thats just my feelings :( )

Everyone has their opinion, and Meat wouldn't have it any other way whether it be loving it, hating it or otherwise and I knew from the first time I heard it two months ago that he was right - not everyone will be pleased.

Just one thing that I can say though is that having taken two years to make, I don't think I could ever call it rushed. But interested to know the 30% you liked :D

wizardofodd
09 Sep 2016, 15:35
After a few listens for me this Album is something Meat, Jim and the crew should be incredibly proud of. It’s a mixed bag for me but overall I enjoy listening to the majority of it and I must say that are some absolute gems in the record- I do feel the album loses its legs towards the end and I much prefer the first half of the album.

Who needs the Young- what a unique song and an interesting way to kick off an album. I find it a joy but it’s not one I put on repeat.

GATW – It’s epic, it’s a journey, it’s total meaty rock- The last 5 mins are exceptionally good in my view – it’s beautiful.

Speaking in Tongues – what a beautiful song, I have really grown to love this one. It’s warm with an emotional charge and a humorous touch. Perfect

Loving You’s a dirty Job was a real surprise for me, I’m not a huge fan of the Bonnie version but this is fantastic- I love it and I think it could have been a hit for Meat if pushed as a single. It’s so much better than the Bonnie version.

Souvenirs – I’ve been listening to this one for weeks- It’s easily one of my favourites on the album. I love the Sax, I think Meats vocal holds up well. It’s brilliant.

Only When I feel – Unlike others I think the vocal is fine here and full of emotion but the song feels incomplete-

More – does little for me, it has a slightly modern sound to it and something in it doesn’t quite work for me.

Godz – It’s got a military sound, bold, gothic, it’s not particularly catchy but I really enjoy how Meat delivers this one.

Skull of Your Country – it’s a strange mix, I feel like it had so much potential but I didn’t come out of it overwhelmed. The turnaround element just reminds me of Total Eclipse which to be honest is a better song.

Train of Love – Sounds much more than what we’ve come to expect with recent Meat albums. It’s fun, it’s an easy listen and I think radio friendly. It’s not a classic but a great rock tune to close an album and possibly a concert. It wasn’t the ultimate full stop I was wanting however-

Which makes me feel like this isn’t over- maybe I’m wrong but I don’t feel a sense of this being the final chapter in the Meat and Jimmy saga. It’s a brave. Emotional, angry, witty continuation but I do believe there is better to come although I know it’s quite unlikely.

Overall there I can’t compare to HIAHB or HCTB as they felt so different. This is much more classic Loaf – far better than any Jimmy songs on Bat 3.

andythemeatloafan
09 Sep 2016, 15:44
aww lol ty :)

ThatWriterGuy
09 Sep 2016, 16:59
Am I one of the few people who actually really like Train of Love? And MORE (confession: I grew up on the SOM version, so I kinda love the song anyway -- taking nothing away from this version, which is epic).

Danny L
09 Sep 2016, 17:52
What a record!! Time to review, but I love it, all 10 tracks, each has been carved with passion - it is so so good that Meat & Jimmy reunited to make this happen.

1. WHO NEEDS THE YOUNG?
People won't get it but this is the first song Steinman ever wrote and a vital part of his body of work. Funny and rude, I was wondering how this would work on a record but the arrangement is typical bombastic.

2. GOING ALL THE WAY IS JUST THE START (A Song in 6 Movements)
One of my two favourite songs on the album. Back to the mini-epic songs which made Meat & Jim famous, as good if not better than Anything For Love, and no, the edits do not do the track justice. When Karla swoops in with her first line (seriously that'show I invision it) it's just breathtaking. This song is a journey, my favouritwe bit is Ellen's 'You see me smile and and you swear that I can walk on air'

3. SPEAKING IN TONGUES
Was unsure fo this because of the 2006 live recording but this is a very good song. The wood joke is naughty but so Steinman. Like it

4. LOVING YOU'S A DIRTY JOB (BUT SOMEBODY'S GOTTA DO IT)
Oh. My God. When I first saw this on the tracklist i was surprised (similarly I never expected Meat to do It's All Coming Back To Me Now) but I CANNOT STOP LISTENING TO THIS TRACK. Help. No Seriously. So different to Bonnie's and this should be the next single. Breathtaking. Also I should mention this contains some beautiful lyrical phrases.

5. SOUVENIRS
Left in the Dark only better, a tortured ballad

6. ONLY WHEN I FEEL
The funny thing about the opening of this is I listened to the 05 live recordign so much I can hear Meat say 'By Jim Steinman from Bat Out of Hell III'. Just 2 minutes long Meat plays this with such a tortured vocal.

7. MORE
Leading out of OWIF, this is a great song, dunno what to say about it?

8. GODZ
Catchy.

9. SKULL OF YOUR COUNTRY
This is odd, instead of 'Turn Around' they should have used Let the Revels Begin. Unless Sonnenberg has it tied up in the musical idk. I enjoyed it but cannou hear 'Turn Around' without 'Every now and then' !!

10. TRAIN OF LOVE
A good-old fashioned rocker to close out. Lots of fun.

I was disappointed by Bat III and thought Jim & Meat would never reunite but here the Dream Team are again. I love this album, this is a masterpiece hands down.

Meat says it's unlike anything before but I slightly disagree in a positive way, at long last we are back at the old school of 77 and 92 and it feels so good. I have a copy in my car already to listen to on the road as well as iTunes.

Chris77
09 Sep 2016, 18:39
Really like it. It's a great Piece of art!
First listened to it on Vinyl, then on CD.
To my ears, the Vinyl sounds much clearer and differentiated as compared to CD. Fine sound!

glockenspiel
09 Sep 2016, 18:47
WHO NEEDS THE YOUNG

Eccentric & warped, but in a very good way. Loaf performs this with real relish & gusto. The moves into the 'Is there anyone?' section and then a bit of piano & lead guitar work are all seamlessly done,, and the slow-down after that perfectly judged. I take Wario's point about some of lyrics not being fully enunciated, but one can hardly fail to grasp the overall mood and character of the piece, because of that. So just one mark off, then - 9 out of 10.

GOING ALL THE WAY

I gave this song the benefit of the doubt in its edited promo form, as it seemed to be chopping and changing all over the place, but serving no particular purpose in doing so. Sorry to say, I think the full version is, if anything, even worse. Previous descriptions like 'piecemeal' or 'cobbled together' are fair comment, to my ears. Four minutes in, and my mind was drifting, so I started skipping forward on the track. None of the three vocalists are suited to the piece, either together or separately. All of them would have to be singing all of it, plus another mid-pitched male harmony singer, to make this beast work. I'll give it 4 out of 10 for its ambition.

SPEAKING IN TONGUES

Yes, this song is sung as something of a continuous 'strip-tease', as there is an almost unbearable sense of something being 'held back' throughout. But I think that is what makes it so compelling, and something you'll want to return to - and it is very well placed at track 3 in the running order, in that regard. The vocals gel well - and they convey the lyrical balance of desperation and acceptance to a tee. The female vocal part belts without being over-bearing, and 'erection of the heart' is a nice touch of juvenile humour ~ All that, plus that hooky piano line, raises this on to a 10 out of 10.

LOVING YOU IS A DIRTY JOB

Classic Steinman sound, from the off - crucially, given the emotionally convincing performance that it demands & deserves. The 'call and response' parts, combined with the dynamics of the music, hold your interest even though the lyrics are repetitive - hats off to the work done on the arrangement, on that count. Loaf's coda comes across as appropriately vulnerable, rather than vocally weak. Stacy Michelle does another fine job here -- I just have the smallest of quibbles about her sounding a bit too young for Loaf in the context of some of the lyrics here - So, that noted, I give this 9.5 out of 10.

SOUVENIRS

Everything about this one is top-notch. The creamy saxaphone work, the way that Loaf throws himself into the bitterness of the character, the build-up of atmosphere, the 'Bat 2'-like production-sheen ... I could go on - You really want to stick with this one, to see 'what happens next' - aided, strangely enough, by the lack of any clear verse-chorus structure. The 'icicles instead of tears' is a charming link-back to 'Two Out Of Three', and 'take my toys' cuts through the seriousness with some good ol' fashioned smut, at just the right time. Similarities in one section to 'Left In The Dark' are not so obvious as to break the flow. All in all, the eight minutes just fly by. I would have made this the opening track,, but can't really count this preference against the song itself, so : 10 out of 10.

ONLY WHEN I FEEL

As others have said, this doesn't cut the mustard as a finished article. It just gets too vocally wayward in the second half. Would also have liked to have heard it medley into 'Break It' (if only briefly), as worked so well on the early live run-outs. A mis-step, especially coming straight after the triumph of 'Souvenirs' ... For its strong start, I'll give it 3 out of 10.

MORE

Full of production 'tricks', but they are never gratuitous - they all serve to carry the thing forward - including the 'distant shouts' at the end - and you sense that Loaf/ Loaf's character means what he says, in the semi-spoken passages, in turn bringing real punch to the exclamation-mark-style 'release' of 'I want more!'. The transition to the female part is a fine contrast and it brings a necessary 'softening' touch to a piece that is otherwise so hard & brittle. Its by no means a typical Steinman or Loaf effort,, it has its own special atmosphere - Some may not be taken with it on first hearing, but I think this is a strong 'grower' -- I didn't know before reading the lyrics whether it 'I can't get too' or 'I can't get to' - either (or both) work (though turns out its the former) - Seems OTT to put it on a level with the likes of 'Anything For Love', and yet, I can't really fault it - so 9.5 out of 10.

GODZ

Yes, its 'hokey' (as The Independent review put it, I think), but, taken on its own terms, its a blast of sheer fun/ letting-off of steam. Grabs your attention in a big way, and only in danger of weakening its grip in the spoken middle-part, but this is brief enough. Strong belt from Loaf - nice to hear he still has that potency. A thoroughly satisfying link-back to the 'Bolero'-like interludes of old. Almost up there with 'Who Needs The Young' in its quirky impact, so 8.5 out of 10.

SKULL OF YOUR COUNTRY

Major disappointment. Loaf's opening semi-grunting delivery is but a pale shadow, set against the irresistible call-to-arms that Ted Neeley etc made out of it- and - I don't care about the order in which things were written - the 'Turn around' refrain belongs so strongly to Bonnie Tyler's 'Total Eclipse', that it would have taken something out-of-this-world to take our minds away from it (and indeed, to want to hear that instead). This is nowhere near. Purely for the pleasing piano-intro, I'll give it 2 out of 10.

TRAIN OF LOVE

A number of people have been 'down' on this record, but I say that is unjustified. Yes, it isn't quite rousing enough to be the closer - but then - what other track would have been? For me, it has appeal - it rattles along at a good enough pace for everyone to enjoy on a car journey; Loaf is in command of his material; it features some tasty slide-guitar work, and just about avoids sliding into being a list of Bon-Jovi style cliches. Job done. After all, 'Mercury Blues' was no great shakes either on record, but a real gem live. This could be the same - give it some love - 7.5 out of 10.

If my maths is right, I make that an overall grade of 73%. Which is more than I expecting -- It goes into the 'Has much to commend it' pile ( somewhere in-between the 'indisputable classic' pile and the 'worth picking up in a sale' pile).

ashkent7
09 Sep 2016, 19:36
Am I one of the few people who actually really like Train of Love? And MORE (confession: I grew up on the SOM version, so I kinda love the song anyway -- taking nothing away from this version, which is epic).

I'm with you for Train...not quite so much More but its still not a skipper so still good.

CarylB
09 Sep 2016, 19:52
This isn't an album, a collection of songs. True, Meat never approaches an album in this way, but nonetheless many will have bought and loved his albums as a number of songs, comparing and contrasting them and liking some more than others. But this truly is for me one piece, a vocal concerto, a night at the theatre, stage darkened, a man standing in a spotlight, joined at times by others, baring his heart, his emotions, his soul in one huge performance .. at times with force, at times with anger, at times beaten with pain, but always with courage. Sometimes that voice we have loved for so many decades is what we remember, at times it is hardly more than a hoarse whisper of pain, but this just serves to enhance the poignancy of the lyrics which reach out and squeeze one's heart with an assured hand.

To me, if this were a book you'd not say "It was a good read" .. you'd say that it was one that had touched you profoundly, left you emotionally drained, the feelings it evoked staying with you long after you read it, and it would be one you'd be drawn to again and again. If it were a painting it would be one in which you'd continue to discover new aspects, and would constantly make you feel joy at times, great sadness at others, but always make you feel an emotional response. It is a work of art, perhaps the greatest one Jim has drawn and Meat painted; some lines strong, some fine, and the colours many hued.

It's difficult for me to review the songs individually, as each is so much part of a whole, one leading almost seamlessly to the next. I sat twice in an imagined theatre, and was swept up in the performance that was delivered with such creative skill. I sensed that "lift" Meat has referred to, taking one from each track to the next, until the drop at the very end of Train of Love. I listened to the 19 year old boy, sharing his frustrations, fears, hopes and frustration, articulated with a wisdom beyond his years even in his confusion, starting with the wonderfully almost retro introduction to Who Needs The Young, with frustration and anger setting the scene for all that would follow. I was lifted up by Paul's brilliant production, as Meat delivered Jim's stunning lyrics with superb vision, passion and truth.

Going All The Way is to me perfection. Fear and frustration swelling to desire and hope. Lyrics, music, vocals, production all perfectly conjoined. It touches emotional cords, brings tears to my eyes, and I am simply subsumed into the whole as it wraps around me, and leads into Speaking in Tongues which reaches out and grabs heart and emotions with soaring hope, and the almost physical tension of its sexual innuendo.

Loving You’s a Dirty Job sees that hope start to fragment, the lines "You're so busy trying to get even, You never even try to get close" are so poignant, and it leads seamlessly into Souvenirs. I love this more every time I hear it. That ballsy bluesy gloriously mournful sax together with Meat's vocal conveys perfectly such strength of angry and bitter loss and sadness. I wanted to believe he was defiantly holding on to one single shred he will never relinquish, his love .. but no, I felt that cannot be taken because it has been consumed, exhausted, lost already. And the boy hit rocks bottom in Only When I Feel, perfectly positioned, ravaged with pain, before the confusion, longing and need of More. (I struggled with Only When I Feel when Meat sang it live some years ago .. but now, here, it has a perfect fit, and I can love it.)

I love the sheer anger of Godz, directed at a world that seems so hard, so wrong, with its war drummers beat, becoming almost one with Skull of Your Country, as the repeated phrase to Turn Around Bright Eyes seems, to me anyway, to be offering some impetus to keep going, and leading to the stunning close Train of Love. Meat's vocals here are superb, and seem to end the performance by taking you back to the start ... the lyrics suggest a wanting to love himself and the world around him, to somehow find his place through love and to love, but are delivered with the pain and confusion of someone who still can't quite find his way to do that. He is left still not knowing who he is.

As to Meat's vocals throughout .. his voice is lower in timbre, as one would expect after so many decades, but honestly to me it remains strong, passionate, and rich, reaching out to me still as no other artist has ever done. He always says as a performer he is about finding the truth, and he wrests every last scruple of truth from every word in every lyric; if in doing this he has chosen not to seek some kind of vocal perfection, but has instead chosen to and so successfully conveyed the true feelings of every line, therein for me lies the heroism to which Jim refers, therein lies the power, truth, courage and perfection that is braver.

MarkS
09 Sep 2016, 20:42
Total Eclipse of the Skull of Our Country
What happened.... This song Ive been dreaming of meat doing, but the best part, Let The Revels Begin, was replaced with essentially Total Eclipse of the Heart.


I spend the whole of the skulls song waiting for a hook that never comes. When "turn around bright eyes" starts you expect that to roll into Total Eclipse. It just keeps building to a crescendo that never arrives

stretch37
09 Sep 2016, 20:47
that's exactly what my wife keeps saying! good description Mark
I spend the whole of the skulls song waiting for a hook that never comes. When "turn around bright eyes" starts you expect that to roll into Total Eclipse. It just keeps building to a crescendo that never arrives

rockfenris2005
09 Sep 2016, 21:10
6 in the morning. Listening to it on my headphones. Third listen now.

My review (for now?) is brief. IT'S COMPLETE. Thank you again Meat & Jim for 20 years of amazing musical experiences.

:up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

duke knooby
09 Sep 2016, 23:23
based on a single listen it's not hooked me, it hasn't reached in and struck a chord musically. it was never meant to be a bat album, but as it's meat and jim again i cant help but compare it to what went before

i suppose, to a degree it's the bombastic over the top production, the peaks and troughs which i've found missing. On my first listen there was no emotional roller coaster, but who knows, it may be a grower for me

mikeloaf
09 Sep 2016, 23:34
enjoying the new cd!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207315088216132&set=a.3985191588870.2146254.1253165156&type=3&theater[/IMG]

stretch37
09 Sep 2016, 23:43
based on a single listen it's not hooked me, it hasn't reached in and struck a chord musically. it was never meant to be a bat album, but as it's meat and jim again i cant help but compare it to what went before

i suppose, to a degree it's the bombastic over the top production, the peaks and troughs which i've found missing. On my first listen there was no emotional roller coaster, but who knows, it may be a grower for me

Takes awhile to get into it.

When I first heard it, I was very disappointed. I was looking for vocals growing to a peak of high pitch and strength, and then falling to softness and gentle emotion. I was looking for my favorite Meat Loaf I had heard before to compare it to - E.g. Bat 1, MSO, HIAHB, CHSIB, HCTB (was hoping not lol), and Bat 3. What I heard was NOT that. You know my initial gut impression was this: This is shit to what I wanted. Meat sound ancient, his voice is even more messed up than we all thought, and I am thoroughly disappointed at how he isn't even singing the high parts of the songs.

This is one of my favorite Meat Loaf records now.

I had to transition from any past idea of what Meat should sound like, and realize this is more of a Johnny Cash American Series album. It's the mark of an older musician with lots to tell still.

This album is more about artistic truth and what Meat Loaf is now as an artist. And it works.

The more I have listened to it, the more I have wanted to listen to it. I find myself in moods where the music makes me cry or laugh more than any other Meat Loaf record. That says something doesn't it?

I have found many times that I realize I am sitting and staring at a wall - in a trance. Yesterday, Meat said on air that, and I'm paraphrasing, "this album will put you in a trance". I had already been noticing this for weeks and telling my wife I got hypnotized by the whole album, especially on GATW. It's not even my favorite song.

There is something special about this album. It carries with it energy and magic. It grows on you over time. My wife and I find ourselves humming the songs and singing them around the house when the record isn't on. It gets into your head and your heart. I feel like it's a part of me now. (Keep in mind I've had time to form that opinion for about a month and a half from that stream leak)

if this album had been done 10 years ago, it could never have been what it is today. A beautiful, beautiful work of art representing a mature, knowing, passionate Meat Loaf in the prime of his artistic career and a humorous, angry, joyous, crushed, triumphant Steinman.

Thank you Meat, thank you Jimmy. You have given us wonderful art. You guys absolutely rock.

duke knooby
10 Sep 2016, 00:09
i went into this very much in the mind of cash's american series which are magnificent, i know it's probably the final chapter, i've always loved meat singing in a lower register, but this is yet to hypnotize me. and its not the lyrics or vocals, its just missing the spark for me

stretch37
10 Sep 2016, 00:14
i went into this very much in the mind of cash's american series which are magnificent, i know it's probably the final chapter, i've always loved meat singing in a lower register, but this is yet to hypnotize me. and its not the lyrics or vocals, its just missing the spark for me

I'm hoping that over the next while it does. It took me - I won't say exactly how long because I don't want anyone to get their hopes up - awhile to really have this start to click with me and make me feel something.

It was *not* one of those ones that grabs you right away like Hell In A Handbasket (All of Me, Giving Tree specifically) did for me.

It's almost like a mature relationship or a long lasting thing. Don't look for the quick fix. Look for that growth and fulfilling relationship. I started getting sparks especially when I needed an emotional release - when I had been holding in anger or sadness. Does that make sense? I'm speaking more from emotion than logic right now...

lorenzoduke
10 Sep 2016, 00:36
Can only say it grabbed me by the throat at first listen. Wish I could quantify it or qualify it. Honestly think I'm digging it as much as anything that's come before from Meat & Jim. Hope anyone who's finding it a bit different and difficult sticks with it - because it is different, that's for damn sure.

MarkS
10 Sep 2016, 00:41
While I do enjoy several of the songs, I have to admit that vocally it is bad, I mean the voice is shot. I love Meat and will always have a great back catalog of music to fall back on but I just wish he would stop. I played it for someone earlier today and within a few minutes they asked what on earth happened to his voice.

I respect that he wanted one final album with Jim and to bring it all full circle but I hope this is it and that he doesn't tour again. What I heard in Nashville in April of this year was painful to listen too, the crowd was booing at times because it was so bad.

I am very conflicted on what to feel here because I am watching my favorite artist fall to the vicious bitch that is time.

ricgough
10 Sep 2016, 00:57
My considered view:

Effing, bleeding awesome!
It's bright, sharp, challenging, beautifully textured, honest, complex, emotional and fantastically raw.

Worth the (23 year) wait.

Thankyou to Meat, Jim, Paul and the band. To Justin for the piano fill in gatw and the rest. To the girls who made the album soar,
To John for telling our hearts exactly what to do and Dave's electrifying tongue.

Meat and Jim is prime meat loaf. Makes a lot of the rest (with notable exceptions) feel like quornloaf.

Only criticism?

Where's the other 15 minutes?

I want MORE!

stretch37
10 Sep 2016, 00:59
While I do enjoy several of the songs, I have to admit that vocally it is bad, I mean the voice is shot. I love Meat and will always have a great back catalog of music to fall back on but I just wish he would stop. I played it for someone earlier today and within a few minutes they asked what on earth happened to his voice.

I respect that he wanted one final album with Jim and to bring it all full circle but I hope this is it and that he doesn't tour again. What I heard in Nashville in April of this year was painful to listen too, the crowd was booing at times because it was so bad.

I am very conflicted on what to feel here because I am watching my favorite artist fall to the vicious bitch that is time.

I agree, been feeling like that for awhile now, but you know that's part of life. We're lucky to still have Meat, and time has been harder on him than most.

Having said that I feel like there is something beautiful there. Beautiful art can be created from death or later-in-life reflections, sometimes even more beautiful than youth, or just as impactful.

lorenzoduke
10 Sep 2016, 01:01
A lot of the criticisms - and they are few and far between, the people I know who've heard the album are overwhelmingly possible, stunned even - is those who were hoping for Bat 4.

It reminds me of reading about the reactions to Billie Holiday's Lady In Satin. Some people see between the cracks in an old/damaged voice and see something really beautiful in it that youth just can't do. Others want something that for want of a better term, sounds conventionally aesthetically pleasing. No one's right or wrong really, but those who don't dig Braver I hope can at least be glad it exists for those of us who love the hell out of it. I'm so glad this album exists.

AndrewG
10 Sep 2016, 01:19
I'm so glad this album exists.

Me too. I've seen some harsh criticisms about this album but also about Meat in general, that he should have stopped at Bat2. His music has entertained far more people since then than the period between Bat 1 and Bat2! As if that enjoyment is worth nothing? :roll: I've stood near the front of around 25 Meat Loaf shows and enjoyed myself tremendously 96% of the time. It's a far better ratio than the enjoyment ratio you'd get out of going to the cinema, reading books or playing video games.

Going All the Way for me is worth the cost of the album alone, beyond. The vast majority of the rest I really like and dig and think it will grow on me as Bat 1 and Bat 2 did.

Braver is different, wacky, fun, bombastic, beautiful, crazy, nostalgic and the guys who made it are indeed a bit older but at the same time it still is Meat & Jim for me.

stretch37
10 Sep 2016, 01:22
Me too. I've seen some harsh criticisms about this album but also about Meat in general, that he should have stopped at Bat2.

If he had, I wouldn't be a fan.

I became attracted to the 2003 incarnation of Meat Loaf. Nothing before that resonated with me.

He's like Bowie, or Bowie is like him. Many incarnations. Interesting artistic growth and change, especially later in his career. A true artist in every sense of the word...

Tom Waits, Pete Seeger, Willie Nelson, Kris Kristofferson, Johnny Cash, Keith Richards, Patrick Stewart, Kirk Douglas, Phil Collins, Dick Van Dyke, Ronnie James Dio, Lemmy Kilmister, Leonard Cohen, Meat Loaf.

All people I admire and have watched their art evolve into their senior years. It's art. They are creators, and while some may hold one above the other on a pedestal, I just feel like they are all an inspiration in one way or another.

People I have been learning from and will reference and look to for probably my entire life. Their art is inspiring, or was inspiring, at every stage - even at the end. I feel the same about Meat. And yes, along with his age comes some of the sad feelings one feels seeing a friend age as well as the happier feelings, just as you feel towards a young person - young people aren't invincible to mockery or harsh words or condescending views by their elder either. It goes both ways.

One thing I do hope Meat does, despite all of this 'understanding' I am expressing right now, is to make improving his health his life's work for the next while. He deserves only the best.

lorenzoduke
10 Sep 2016, 01:28
If he had, I wouldn't be a fan.

I became attracted to the 2003 incarnation of Meat Loaf. Nothing before that resonated with me.

He's like Bowie, or Bowie is like him. Many incarnations. Interesting artistic growth and change, especially later in his career. A true artist in every sense of the word...

That's why I think he'll be appreciated so much more in years to come. Unfortunately he seems to have fallen into the same media perception as Alice Cooper. They decide who are 'artists' and who are 'entertainers' when the fact is if you do it right the two should be one and the same. Just like Alice Cooper makes people think 'oh yeah, that spooky guy who did School's Out and Welcome To My Nightmare and Poison, the guy with the snake' even though his catalog has such a breadth of fascinating material that could rival anyone's, so Meat is cursed by the terms 'rock opera', 'larger than life' etc.

It's facile easily digestible bullshit for the masses who want everything and everyone to be able to be distilled in a couple of sentences. Couldn't Have Said It Better sounds nothing like Bat, Bat sounds nothing like Braver. Lost Boys & Golden Girls sounds nothing like Life Is A Lemon, Do It sounds nothing like Dead Ringer, Who Needs The Young sounds nothing like anything he's ever recorded.

ricgough
10 Sep 2016, 01:31
A lot of the criticisms - and they are few and far between, the people I know who've heard the album are overwhelmingly possible, stunned even - is those who were hoping for Bat 4.

It reminds me of reading about the reactions to Billie Holiday's Lady In Satin. Some people see between the cracks in an old/damaged voice and see something really beautiful in it that youth just can't do. Others want something that for want of a better term, sounds conventionally aesthetically pleasing. No one's right or wrong really, but those who don't dig Braver I hope can at least be glad it exists for those of us who love the hell out of it. I'm so glad this album exists.

"Bat" undoubtedly defined both Meat and Jim's careers. This is different, one for the fans. I didn't want bat 4. I wanted meat and jim to finally do something without the monolith weighing them down. This does that. Absolutely.

lorenzoduke
10 Sep 2016, 01:33
"Bat" undoubtedly defined both Meat and Jim's careers. This is different, one for the fans. I didn't want bat 4. I wanted meat and jim to finally do something without the monolith weighing them down. This does that. Absolutely.

That brings up a point - the huge credit that everyone involved deserves for not weighing down/cashing in by calling this album Bat 4. As a side note I suspect Paul's production deserves a hell of a lot of credit for the incredible cohesion (to use a word Meat keeps citing, rightfully) this album has. He's pulling songs and song fragments from decades apart and it sounds like parts of a whole. No mean feat!

AndrewG
10 Sep 2016, 01:38
Everyone cries when it's over. When it is still going it is easy to ridicule and take for granted and to rate 1 star.

Even if you really think Meat failed miserably. At least he tried. He didn't give up. He tried to make you smile one last time.

stretch37
10 Sep 2016, 01:41
Everyone cries when it's over. When it is still going it is easy to ridicule and take for granted and to rate 1 star.

Even if you really think Meat failed miserably. At least he tried. He didn't give up. He tried to make you smile one last time.

This right here.

nikox1
10 Sep 2016, 01:48
Ive listened twice, so still too early to write a review.
But i love it so much, really do. Its so far left field and unlike anything around at the moment. This album will recieve all the acolades in years to come i think, it has split opinions now, but thats now. Give it time

ricgough
10 Sep 2016, 01:50
There are some on this thread who need to get to grips with the fact that music is organic and a 68 year old who's pushed himself on our behalf for 40+ YEARS might not sound as sweet as One Direction or Bieber.
You are following a heritage artist here.
You criticise his voice but it is you, me, public demand which has set those scars.
And you know what?

This album will confound you. It will be more successful than you will understand quite simply because many people won't be "conosseurs" but will relate hugely with the flaws. It makes it human.

Get over yourselves.

nikox1
10 Sep 2016, 01:51
There are some on this thread who need to get to grips with the fact that music is organic and a 68 year old who's pushed himself on our behalf for 40+ YEARS might not sound as sweet as One Direction or Bieber.
You are following a heritage artist here.
You criticise his voice but it is you, me, public demand which has set those scars.
And you know what?

This album will confound you. It will be more successful than you will understand quite simply because many people won't be "conosseurs" but will relate hugely with the flaws. It makes it human.

Get over yourselves.

Bravo

stretch37
10 Sep 2016, 01:58
There are some on this thread who need to get to grips with the fact that music is organic and a 68 year old who's pushed himself on our behalf for 40+ YEARS might not sound as sweet as One Direction or Bieber.
You are following a heritage artist here.
You criticise his voice but it is you, me, public demand which has set those scars.
And you know what?

This album will confound you. It will be more successful than you will understand quite simply because many people won't be "conosseurs" but will relate hugely with the flaws. It makes it human.

Get over yourselves.

Well said, although I should also add that I completely support everyone's response on this website thus far. I feel that everyone has been extremely respectful and have shown a wide range of opinions.

And thus the discussion forum was born....

Other websites, on the other hand, make me sick, and I completely agree with your above statement. All the 1 star reviews and trash talkers are pretty hurtful. But it's ok. They're over there. They can stay in their 1 star corner while I enjoy my artist's beautiful creation.

loaferman61
10 Sep 2016, 01:59
While I do enjoy several of the songs, I have to admit that vocally it is bad, I mean the voice is shot. I love Meat and will always have a great back catalog of music to fall back on but I just wish he would stop. I played it for someone earlier today and within a few minutes they asked what on earth happened to his voice.

I respect that he wanted one final album with Jim and to bring it all full circle but I hope this is it and that he doesn't tour again. What I heard in Nashville in April of this year was painful to listen too, the crowd was booing at times because it was so bad.

I am very conflicted on what to feel here because I am watching my favorite artist fall to the vicious bitch that is time.

I'd much rather have this and hear his real voice and his amazing interprative ability than to have some slick tuned to perfection vocals using studio gimmickry. Johnny Cash did some great things in his older years and his voice had changed some also.

CarylB
10 Sep 2016, 02:01
And you know what?

This album will confound you.

Yes. It stands alone I think. I listened to it without pre-conceptions, defined expectations, comparisons. I was reminded of the Beatles' lyric "And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." I opened my mind, heart and soul with total trust, and was rewarded beyond measure :D

ricgough
10 Sep 2016, 02:03
That brings up a point - the huge credit that everyone involved deserves for not weighing down/cashing in by calling this album Bat 4. As a side note I suspect Paul's production deserves a hell of a lot of credit for the incredible cohesion (to use a word Meat keeps citing, rightfully) this album has. He's pulling songs and song fragments from decades apart and it sounds like parts of a whole. No mean feat!

Paul produced it. The boss signed it off though. Jim took a risk too. The band were allowed to contribute emphatically. That's where a lot of the cohesion comes from. It's a band record which adds to it in so many ways.

It really should be released under the name of Meat, Jim and the neverland express.

ricgough
10 Sep 2016, 02:29
Well said, although I should also add that I completely support everyone's response on this website thus far. I feel that everyone has been extremely respectful and have shown a wide range of opinions.

And thus the discussion forum was born....

Other websites, on the other hand, make me sick, and I completely agree with your above statement. All the 1 star reviews and trash talkers are pretty hurtful. But it's ok. They're over there. They can stay in their 1 star corner while I enjoy my artist's beautiful creation.

I am quite grateful that "authentic" has greater sway with the wider public than "polished".

Meat and Jim have always defied convention and this is their geatest strength.

Don't get me wrong. I'm surprised this album is as good as it is. But Meats rawness and honesty makes it what it is. it would have been easy to take historic vocal tracks for most of these tracks and create something that sounded like bat 1 or 2 here. The ravaged voice makes this in so many ways.

anotherday
10 Sep 2016, 02:31
Everyone cries when it's over. When it is still going it is easy to ridicule and take for granted and to rate 1 star.

Even if you really think Meat failed miserably. At least he tried. He didn't give up. He tried to make you smile one last time.

And now I'm crying, THANKS ANDREW.

anotherday
10 Sep 2016, 02:32
There are some on this thread who need to get to grips with the fact that music is organic and a 68 year old who's pushed himself on our behalf for 40+ YEARS might not sound as sweet as One Direction or Bieber.
You are following a heritage artist here.
You criticise his voice but it is you, me, public demand which has set those scars.
And you know what?

This album will confound you. It will be more successful than you will understand quite simply because many people won't be "conosseurs" but will relate hugely with the flaws. It makes it human.

Get over yourselves.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.

ricgough
10 Sep 2016, 03:05
Where to start.... this album leaves a lot to be desired but has a track that fills my desires and then some.

Before I go on, I am not saying this is Meat's worst album nor am I bashing it. Its not a bad record but its not a fantastic one either.

WHO NEEDS THE YOUNG
The opening track, "Who Needs the Young" starts off with a lot of potential. I love the 50's prom-style "bum-bum-bums" Its when Meat comes in, the lines don't have the punch they should have. A few fantastic punchlines get drowned out. "Is there anyone left who can ~~~~" sounds strained. nor does "Is there anyone left who can dream" has no diction. Parts are way too fast to let the lines breath. Its a very weird song and very polarizing.

Braver Than We Are (Going All The Way Is Just the Start)
This masterpiece is just that. A 12 minute rock opera that we have been missing since 1993. The part I don't really dig is the "There are secrets I never could tell" bridge.

Speaking In Tongues
its place and pacing on the album works in my opinion. yes, the bridge is fantastic as is the line "You got spark, I got wood"
I wish the full band would come in and rock up the finale, maybe live.
It really is an erection of the Heart. I just wish there was more.
Stacy kills this.

Loving You is A Dirty Job (Somebody's Gotta Do It)
Bonnie's version holds no candle to this version. This is absolutely fantastic.
I just wish Bonnie was on it. Missed opportunity for a proper duet between the two.

Souvenirs
This Song has much meaning, its absolutely fantastic. The sax on Dave's end is outstanding and meat is ON POINT. One of Jims hidden gems, Im surprised it got picked. Even more surprised its not the finale.

It Hurts (Only When I Feel)
The songs lyrics are great, here the vocal take caused this song to fall apart. I understand his perfect vocal probably didn't have much emotion in it but The lyrics will bring it out. This sounds like it was recorded at a soundcheck like Blue Sky was. The vocal production (or lack of) was so distracting on this one.

More
I really catchy tune. I actually really dig this one, and the synthesizers. I can totally see this being mashed with Do It! If meat tours again.

Godz
The lyrics do not fit the song. Hearing Bolero for so long as an instrumental, this sounds like the guys on youtube that put lyrics to theme music for movies and TV Shows. Meat sounds fine, its just I wish i twas an instrumental.

Total Eclipse of the Skull of Our Country
What happened.... This song Ive been dreaming of meat doing, but the best part, Let The Revels Begin, was replaced with essentially Total Eclipse of the Heart.

I wish it was this:
buVA8-RKICY

Train of Love
This, when I first heard the demo a year or so ago, was the last song i thought was Meat's hit list.

Admittedly Meats version is an improvement but a forgettable entry into the repertoire. Why was Souvenirs not the ending?

Dirty Water
Sounds like something that shouldve been a bonus track to Handbasket. better than Train of Love. Tho I can see why it never made an album outside this Demo. Is it just me or is meats voice really low in the mix?

OVERALL:
6/10

CURRENT ALBUM RANK:

Bat 2
Blind before I Stop
Bat
Hang Cool Teddy Bear
Bad Attitude
Welcome to the Neighborhood
Couldnt have Said It Better
Stoney & Meatloaf
Dead Ringer
Braver Than We Are
Bat 3
Hell in a Handbasket
Midnight


You know we love you.

But you've a hell of a lot to learn about Rock and Roll.

Monstro
10 Sep 2016, 03:16
You know we love you.

But you've a hell of a lot to learn about Rock and Roll.

That made me laugh, really laugh, nice one!!!!

Wario
10 Sep 2016, 05:37
You know we love you.

But you've a hell of a lot to learn about Rock and Roll.

That was A+++

ThatWriterGuy
10 Sep 2016, 09:10
I was going to post this in it's own thread to draw attention to it, but thought better of it. Regardless:

If any of you would like to drop your reviews onto AMAZON.CO.UK please do, as there a lot of one and two star reviews at the minute (which appear to be obvious trolling -- it's a well established movement on Amazon, especially for authors, oddly), and as such the album's over all rating has dropped significantly. Hopefully we can 'right the ship' again :cool:

AndrewG
10 Sep 2016, 09:30
I was going to post this in it's own thread to draw attention to it, but thought better of it. Regardless:

If any of you would like to drop your reviews onto AMAZON.CO.UK please do, as there a lot of one and two star reviews at the minute (which appear to be obvious trolling -- it's a well established movement on Amazon, especially for authors, oddly), and as such the album's over all rating has dropped significantly. Hopefully we can 'right the ship' again :cool:

Meat has often been a laughing stock for some people. There's only one verified purchase 1 star review from what I can tell whilst most of the 5 star reviews are verified purchases. They really ought to limit it to verified purchases only (that's how Argos works though their site engineering and speed are terrible) Amazon sells enough to stop outsiders poisioning things.

glockenspiel
10 Sep 2016, 09:53
The Five-Star reviews are as daft as the One-Star reviews ,,,

2jaxx
10 Sep 2016, 10:24
Only When I Feel sounds just right to me. Meat's vocals on GATW are a bit off at times. Listen to the bridge where he is singing alone. That part is just too slow for Meat to sing a proper melody on there and it sounds weak and dragged.

stretch37
10 Sep 2016, 10:26
The Five-Star reviews are as daft as the One-Star reviews ,,,

Meh, I don't know about the other 5 star reviewers, but I feel like it's worth 5 damn stars so that's what I wrote!

stretch37
10 Sep 2016, 11:10
Just saw some more 1 star reviews. They're literally slagging off the 5 star reviewers. They're clearly there to take a giant shyte on Meat.

You know what. The lynch mob is just out to get him right now. There is nothing we can do, and nothing we should feel we have to do.

Let history be the judge of this album, not its ratings.

Most cult classics got shit ratings from critics anyways.

As someone else said, history is being made at this moment. We're all lucky enough to be along for the ride. Let's enjoy the entertainment :-)

nikox1
10 Sep 2016, 11:15
Pay no attention to it, this album was always gonna devide opinions.
Amazon is not the only place selling it, early signs suggest it will chart high enough.

stretch37
10 Sep 2016, 11:19
Pay no attention to it

That's the best damn thing I've heard all day.

Adje
10 Sep 2016, 11:29
Well, here is the review you haven't been waiting for... :lol:

The last days I have talked to fans who were absoluty blown away with this album. And, as I had the iTunes leak and had about 2 months to get adjusted to it, I was a little bit surprised. The last three days I have listened (and in some cases tried to listen) to the songs on the CD and for me Braver is not one of the top albums of Meat Loaf. Exactly as Meat told us 'You'll love or hate it'

I don't hate it like I hated HCTB and it did not catch me like Handbaset did. But it might grow on me a bit better as Handbasket, which since it got released has lost almost all my interest. So from the last 3 albums this one is bound to become the best. From my complete Meat collection, this one will end at the bottom half for sure.

There are some songs I really like. Gatw is, in my opinion, the best one on the album, closely followed by Loving you and Souvenirs.

Speaking in tongues is one of the songs that may grow on me but isn't there yet.

The problem, for me, is that the songs that I did know (and I'm not a steinman fanatic so not all songs are in my library) weren't any worse than the ones on this album. Non of the songs on this album were really improvements over the songs that I already knew in some sort of other version. In fact, for me, most songs were less great. The only song that may hold up to it's predecessors is Going all the way.

A big issue for me is Meat's voice. I think it's bold and brave and perhaps the most honest vocals on any Meat album, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. And I don't. In fact in some songs it really turns me off.

The Steinman arrangements are overall fine with some exceptions. For me the most obvious is Skulls. This didn't need fixing and the 'Turn around' part made it worse. And Godz? Uh?

Then there are some songs that I just don't like an d never will because they are either too weird or too boring for me. More, Who needs the Young and especially Train of Love are songs that won't hit my playlist again.

So in the end, yes. If Meat says some will love it and others hate it I'd be at the second camp more than the first. Luckily I enjoy several songs (but not in the way some of you seem to do) so I don't really hate the album but from all the albums having Meat/Steinman songs on it, this ends last.

Overall from all official Meat albums this will rank on #9 or #10 for me.

ThatWriterGuy
10 Sep 2016, 11:49
Got to say that I'm both happy and surprised that people - regardless of how much they do or do not like the album - are being allowed to express their views without (for the most part anyway) people jumping on them. More of this please!

(did I just jinx it, or what?!)

stretch37
10 Sep 2016, 12:07
Got to say that I'm both happy and surprised that people - regardless of how much they do or do not like the album - are being allowed to express their views without (for the most part anyway) people jumping on them. More of this please!

(did I just jinx it, or what?!)

Nah, I have a wooden desk and I knocked on it. That means it's not jinxed right? It's also 4am here so I guess that also means I should go to bed at some point.

Ad, glad you wrote that and I was glad to read your thoughts on the album. :-)

jcmoorehead
10 Sep 2016, 12:19
I've listened to the entire album a couple of times now. Unlike Handbasket which took a while for me to warm to this one grabbed me straight away. I absolutely love it. It'll be interesting to see where it lies a few months from now because you always get that just released hype from an album but I'm really impressed with it.

The vocals don't bother me, Meat isn't going to sound like he did years ago and whilst that might be a bit disappointing to no longer hear those booming vocals the approach he has taken fits perfectly. I appreciate though that others might disagree, I will admit that I'm a fan of artists like Marillion whose vocalist, Steve Hogarth, has fairly unique vocals and which are more about the character and emotion then the technical ability. For me Meat Loaf has always been about the character and emotion put into the song, so I'd rather have that still there.

So song by song.

Who Needs The Young - I was admittedly quite nervous about this one because I didn't know how the full thing would sound from the preview. I've heard the monologue from one of Warios uploads (Edinburgh 87 I think it was) and it sounded interesting but wasn't sure how it'd fit here.

For me it serves as a great opening to the album. In context of what Meat says about the 19 year old character it sort of fits into our time frame. My interpretation is this is a 19 year old who feels abandoned by the older population, and it's a bit of a reflection of our time. Younger people today do seem to have that feeling, that nothing they do is right or that they don't have a place and should just follow the example of the elder population. It's a 19 year old, who is letting out his feelings about how he things older people view youth.

Going All The Way Is Just The Start - For me this is probably top 5 Meat Loaf songs, which considering how bloody good a lot of this songs are says something. It manages to be everything that Meat Loaf is, it's epic, bombastic, it has a mixture of meanings, it has the duets, it's just a perfect track.

Interpretation wise, for me it serves a few purposes. First of all as you might guess from my sig I'm a huge fan of the show Neon Genesis Evangelion. Within that I write about a particular pairing and for me this song is just absolutely perfect for that pairing. It's actually inspired me for future scenes in my work.

Now that that is out of the way. I guess there are multiple layers to the song. For me it isn't just about the 19 year old but about everyone, the idea of people being perceived as brave or strong but when you look beyond they're just the same as you or I. We all look at others and see them as something they aren't, we all have our own views of others in our head and we never know what is going on beyond the surface. This song says that, whilst you think I'm a strong person, I'm really not and I need love/support as well.

Obviously there is the love song aspect to it, the fears of falling in love for both parties and how the act of coming together is just the beginning of a relationship.

It's such a wonderful track.

Speaking In Tongues - Following up Going All The Way is a tough task, it's nice to have a bit of a calmer track after the epicness of it. I don't have quite as much to say about this one, it's a nice sounding track and I really like the 'Things We Learn' segment in the middle. Classic Steinman lyrics in there.

Loving You's A Dirty Job - I've never heard the original so I didn't know what to expect here. It's a classic Steinman duet, really like the sound of it and lyrics throughout.

Souvenirs - I've been listening to this one since it was avalible to purchase on iTunes. Others have mentioned it but the saxophone is lovely throughout it and it does have that sound of Two Out Of Three/Left In The Dark.

Only When I Feel - I've heard this from one of the live recordings when Break It Was there as well. I do like it, there isn't too much to say about it. A nice piano led piece and Meats vocals have a lot of raw emotion to them that fit the song really well.

More - One of the darker tracks on here. Interpretation wise I kind of imagine this idea of people who should demand more in their lives and are entitled to it but don't through fear. Meat has this really nice snarl throughout the entire track that just really helps the song along with its instrumentation.

Godz - I really like this but I also feel that this and Skull should perhaps have been one track. It feels like Godz is an opening, the character calling for action to be taken in the world that they inhabit.

This is another track that I can't help but think of Evangelion with. Especially the End Of Eva film. The calling for the world to end, the feeling that the main character has nothing left and the total apocalypse which then leads into...

Skull Of Your Country - Following on from above, this is where the character goes through all the negative in the world but you hear the 'Turn Around' this is the external forces trying to pull them back. Trying to restore their optimism in some way and break through saying, yes things are bad but they can get better.

Train Of Love - The end of the saga, a good rock track to end the album with. There isn't too much to say about it really, I like it as an ending credits sort of thing.

neverlandandy
10 Sep 2016, 13:01
Long time member long time fan but not a great poster but in MY opinion this has to be the worst album ever to have come from the great man
:(:(:(

nikox1
10 Sep 2016, 13:07
Long time member long time fan but not a great poster but in MY opinion this has to be the worst album ever to have come from the great man
:(:(:(

Sorry you don't like it

babyblue558
10 Sep 2016, 15:12
Braver Than We Are Review

I’ve been a Meat Loaf fan ever since I bought my first record at the age of twelve: it was Bat 2 and I got my mum to buy it for me because I liked the cover art. The rest is history. However, I’m not afraid to be critical of certain parts of his output. I don’t much care for what he was up to in the mid-late 80s, I think CHSIB and HIAH are a mixed bag at best and Bat 3 was an ill-conceived shambles, though this was not Meat’s doing. I do have a soft spot for HCTB though. I finally saw him live at the Last at Bat tour, which I thoroughly enjoyed, so I went into listening to his latest album knowing that his voice had changed a great deal recently but still I had high hopes given what he and Jim had already said about it. Here’s my track-by-track review…

Who Needs the Young

This was the song I was most excited about going into the record. Meat said it was unlike anything he’d ever recorded before and he wasn’t exaggerating. Jim’s demo sounds simply bizarre but is one of the wittiest things he’s ever written and Meat’s version really fleshes out the demo and gives it some much needed gravitas. Meat’s ravaged voice is ideal for this song, in fact I’d wager it wouldn’t sound half as good if he’d recorded it in 1977. I was grinning to myself all the way through listening to it and actually laughed out loud at the ‘Is there anyone left who can ~~~~?’ line. The tone and message of the song reminds me of Lemon and Everything Louder but all while sounding absolutely nothing like those two songs. Something old and something new, it didn’t disappoint me at all and is a strong contender for my favourite song on the album.

Going All the Way

Was undecided over this one when I first heard the radio edit but this full version has finally got me on board. In fact, the best part (4:37-5:54) wasn’t even in the radio edit. Although I don’t think it is the most ‘classic’ Meat song on the album (more on that later), it totally gets the outlandish heroics of all greatest Meat/Jim collaborations. As far as Meat’s voice goes, I’m still on board and brings a certain drama to the song: you never quite know if the world-weary protagonist will succeed in his quest and he’s less of the infallible romantic hero of old. I do love that they got Ellen and Karla back for this and they’re sounding as brilliant as ever. My one criticism is that the ending goes on a little too long (I know, even for a Steinman composition) and there’s one moment at 10:51 where Meat’s voice just cuts out in the middle of a note, which strikes me as a bit strange.

Speaking in Tongues

The first song on the album I don’t love. I agree with previous comments that it doesn’t seem to build up to anything or evolve much over the course of the song. The bridge builds nicely but it just kind of goes back to zero after that and repeats the first verse. I actually really like the verses but by the end they’re too repetitive. I know Jim likes a bit of cheekiness but here the two dick jokes stand out and clash with the tone of the song. Also the wording is totally unsubtle and it just comes across as crude, as opposed to the subtlety of For Crying Out Loud’s innuendo. Anyway, I’ve yet to be sold on this one but I certainly won’t be skipping it and it may grow on me.

Loving You’s a Dirty Job

The most unexpected surprise of the album. If I’m honest I wasn’t expecting much from this song. It was at best an average Bonnie Tyler track with a mediocre production and the iTunes preview of Meat’s version didn’t do much for me. This is why I’m so surprised to say… I absolutely adore this song. Far from flogging a dead horse, Meat’s version really breathes fresh life into this track and does Steinman’s admittedly excellent lyrics justice. I mean ‘drinking poison water from the fountain of youth’ is such a classic Jim line. I think this is, for the moment, my favourite song on the record and certainly stands amongst the ranks of classic Meat duets like CHSIB, IACBTMN and Paradise. Would be an ideal choice for a single. Contrary to Going All the Way, I wish this one was longer, as it ends a little too suddenly and anticlimactically.

Souvenirs

Meat’s best vocal of the album. Another strong contender for my overall favourite track. We’ve had this song for a while and I think in the excitement of getting the whole album I am neglecting it slightly. The sax is truly a joy to listen to and Meat’s vocal ranges from angry bellows to soulful whispers sometimes within seconds. His ability to belt it out and then suddenly rein it in for a moment of tender emotion is one of Meat’s best qualities as a vocalist and here he proves he’s still got it. It doesn’t bother me that this song has clear similarities with Left in the Dark as I was never truly won over by that song.

Only When I Feel

I had long since accepted that we would probably never get a studio recording of Meat singing this song so I’ll admit it was a (welcome) surprise to see it in the tracklist. I don’t understand why people complain so much about the vocal. It totally fits in with the rugged and tortured sound of the rest of the album and I really don’t think it’s that bad at all. It doesn’t sound terrible or out of place and definitely does justice to the song. It contains some of my favourite lyrics in the album and I only wish it could be longer, with perhaps a second verse and another chorus with the full band playing. Funnily enough, I thought exactly the same thing as this when I first heard Blue Sky from HIAH: could’ve been a truly great Meat Loaf song if it was longer. As it is, it seems more of an interlude than a proper track and that’s a real shame because it has such great potential to be a really memorable ballad as opposed to a tantalisingly brief sign of how good Bat 3 could’ve been.

More

This is my least favourite track and the only one I ever skip. The chorus seems unmemorable, the lyrics are nothing special and the synth sounds dated. Reading other reviews, I see that some people really love this one and I hope my opinion changes because at the moment it’s a disappointment for me. In any case, this is the only track I'm not at all interested in, so 9/10 ain't bad.

Godz

I’d respectfully disagree with Meat when he says that Who Needs the Young is the most polarising track on the album. With its relentless pace, uncompromising brutality and almost totalitarian lyrics I think this is the one that people will find hardest to enjoy. I’m not sure it’s even meant to be enjoyed. I certainly find it fascinating to try and decipher but not really enjoyable. That doesn’t make it a bad track, just one of the strangest ones.

Skull of Your Country

If Loving You’s a Dirty Job was the unexpected success of the album, this is a slight disappointment. When I first heard the iTunes preview I thought to myself ‘Oh wow this’ll be interesting’. It sounded as if Meat was finally addressing the fact that Total Eclipse had been initially promised to him by recording an early version of that song. I love the idea of taking Total Eclipse’s most memorable signature line and subverting it into something unexpected and sinister: ‘Turn around / There’s a black day dawning / Turn around / There’s a corpse in mourning’. It gave me chills. And then I got my hands on the full track, listened to the (admittedly excellent) intro and waited impatiently to see where the song went next. As with Speaking in Tongues it doesn’t really go anywhere and it just repeats the same structure over and over again ad nauseum. I’m going to have to agree with those who said it’s a shame the ‘Let the revels begin’ section was cut. I think that would’ve provided a good climax and the second act this song needs. I do like it, I was just expecting a little more.

Train of Love

I actually really like this song. It isn’t an instant classic like some I’ve already commented on but it is a very solid rocker with some of Meat’s best vocals of the album. These could be CHSIB-era vocals for all I can tell, they really do sound that good. If I had one criticism it would be that this doesn’t seem like a closing track. Which brings me back to the notion of making Only When I Feel into a full-length ballad and having it close the album.

Overall

This is not a perfect album but it does succeed in being a very exciting and engaging listen. You never quite know what you’re going to get next. For those on Amazon and iTunes complaining about Meat’s voice ruining it, I ask: what are the alternatives? Either: someone else sings the album, which I imagine would cause even more complaints and be (rightly) regarded as blasphemy. Or: the album never gets made (a crying shame). My personal opinion is that Meat’s vocals add to rather than detract from the material and the songs themselves would not be as effective if sung by a younger, pitch-perfect, radio-friendly vocalist. I for one am glad this album saw the light of day. I would compare it to latter-day releases by David Bowie (RIP) and Marianne Faithfull, both artists dogged by rumours of ill health and criticism of declining vocal abilities. Nevertheless, like Meat they went against the grain and made something unexpected and special. Any criticism I have of Braver Than We Are really pales in comparison to the joy I feel when listening to this album and how glad I am that it actually got made.

Jayd
10 Sep 2016, 16:33
Quick opinion rather than review. I love Meat, I really do, I have been to see him on many occasions, everything including the Midnight album I love, but this I have to say this is the worst album I have heard. Vocally it is awful and carried by many of the females that appears on the album. It pains to me to say this, and give this opinion. I wanted to love it, but I just can't. I don't feel the Meat I have felt in many other recordings he has done. Yes, I know his age, I don't expect Bat 1, Bat 2, hell even Bat 3, but vocally I think age has caught up

mib
10 Sep 2016, 16:40
I liked the album, made me laugh.The lyrics are funny but it's delivered straight.

loaferman61
10 Sep 2016, 17:03
Braver Than We Are Review

For those on Amazon and iTunes complaining about Meat’s voice ruining it, I ask: what are the alternatives? Either: someone else sings the album, which I imagine would cause even more complaints and be (rightly) regarded as blasphemy. Or: the album never gets made (a crying shame). My personal opinion is that Meat’s vocals add to rather than detract from the material and the songs themselves would not be as effective if sung by a younger, pitch-perfect, radio-friendly vocalist. I for one am glad this album saw the light of day. I would compare it to latter-day releases by David Bowie (RIP) and Marianne Faithfull, both artists dogged by rumours of ill health and criticism of declining vocal abilities. Nevertheless, like Meat they went against the grain and made something unexpected and special. Any criticism I have of Braver Than We Are really pales in comparison to the joy I feel when listening to this album and how glad I am that it actually got made.



In regards to the Amazon reviews and others it is just proving what I believed all along as I am sure Meat and Jim did. This just isn't for everybody. It is what Jim and Meat wanted and what most die-hard fans "get". Jim saying it is avant-garde is so accurate.

People in general are expecting Meat to sound like he did many years ago, these are not Jim's most "commercial" songs and so many people think Meat and Jim can just do another "Bat" or "Bat 2" in their late 60's. The people complaining about the vocals don't get that Meat is singing these songs as much like an actor as a singer. While he has always done this many people just don't get the nuances and emotion from one of the greatest interpreters of a song of all time.

The people here who express their opinions be they positive or negative have a much greater grasp on this than the average Amazon purchaser is going to have. Meat predicted that people would either love or hate it and that some would smash it against a wall and he hit the nail squarely with that statement.

ThatWriterGuy
10 Sep 2016, 17:20
I would compare it to latter-day releases by David Bowie (RIP) and Marianne Faithfull, both artists dogged by rumours of ill health and criticism of declining vocal abilities.

Have to respectfully disagree with the Bowie statement -- just because the comparison between Bowie and Meat is in a very different ballpark, and in very different measures. I love BRAVER, and I don't have a bad word to say about it (just many, many good ones) -- however, Bowie's vocals were excellent right up to the end. Could he hit the notes like he did back in '71? Not quite -- but that's more like comparing Meat's BAT vocals with his vocals on BAT 2. Meat and Bowie -- two VERY different artists.

AndrewG
10 Sep 2016, 17:26
David Bowie sounded nothing like Meat Loaf! Never had the same power or timbre or vocal range.
One of my other favourite male singing voices besides Meat with a massive vocal range (definitely NOT favourite song writer though!) was Todd Rundgren. Loved his vocals in the 80s. But he sounded absolutely atrocious on his 2 out of 3 ain't bad cover like everything is coming from his nose. That whole reProduction album is like that and bizarre use of autotune. Much, much, much worse than Meat Loaf sounds now.

I think for men with big vocals it is hard to keep that going during later life as vocal chord changes, much easier for female performers as their vocals usually just get deeper from what I've witnessed. There are some exceptions such as Tom Jones and Frank Sinatra etc. But even many female performers lose it much worse than what some claim is happening to Meat. Look at Whitney Houston, couldn't sing a note towards the end and she was 20 years younger. 10-20 years before that she was a heavenly songbird. To suggest only Meat Loaf has a change in his vocals and everyone else is fine is nonsense.

ThatWriterGuy
10 Sep 2016, 17:38
To suggest only Meat Loaf has a change in his vocals and everyone else is fine is nonsense.

Yep, people age and voices get deeper. Some come out lucky and manage to retain the sound that they had, and some have to work and try and fight to get to where it used to be. Some take a different approach altogether. It's just life, I guess :cool:

Gazza717
10 Sep 2016, 17:45
I'm on listen number 1. I think it's a masterpiece. Going all the way is a pure masterpiece. For me, who needs the young is the 1st meat track that will be missing from my playlist (which is 99% loaf obsessive!). I get its place here and I just don't like it.

nikox1
10 Sep 2016, 17:56
Sorry i know its reviews, just to let yas know Meat is back at number 1 on Amazon:D

anotherday
10 Sep 2016, 17:59
Sorry i know its reviews, just to let yas know Meat is back at number 1 on Amazon:D

I LITERALLY JUMPED FOR JOY

glockenspiel
10 Sep 2016, 18:00
Can I respectfully request that we lay a couple of 'straw men'/ 'false dichotomies' to rest? ~ a) I haven't met anyone who was expecting the vocals to sound exactly like they did in 1993, or whenever; b) Nobody is compelled to either love or hate the whole thing - It's perfectly possible to have a mixture of feelings about a mixture of songs. Ta.

MarkS
10 Sep 2016, 18:11
Can I respectfully request that we lay a couple of 'straw men'/ 'false dichotomies' to rest? ~ a) I haven't met anyone who was expecting the vocals to sound exactly like they did in 1993, or whenever; b) Nobody is compelled to either love or hate the whole thing - It's perfectly possible to have a mixture of feelings about a mixture of songs. Ta.

I agree, nobody expects him to sound like the teeny bopper pop stars or sound like 1993. Hell I wasn't even expecting the bat 3 sound. But there is an expectation that he at least sound like Meat Loaf and on this album he doesn't IMO. Gone is the bombastic and operatic voice that is now replaced with low register, very subdued vocals, many of which still don't sound that good.

Sebastian.
10 Sep 2016, 18:11
News from the front!


So 903 Expeditionary Air Wing has the worst internet in the world, however I have managed to stream it tonight.

I love it... I'm not going through every song but I'll write a short review...

So to me this album is like a dream or a vision.. kinda like the Rock n Roll dreams seuth-sayer leading someone through a journey... personal favourites are GATW, Loving you is a dirty job, More, God and Skull Country. The vocals to me just work and the melodies are fantastic.

I've been on a bit of a Springsteen binge the past few months but over the past couple of weeks came back to a Meat binge for the release of the album and this is a fantastic album.

Gazza717
10 Sep 2016, 19:03
So 3 listens in time for a better summary.

Songs I'd not cry if I never heard again..... "Who needs the young" "only when I feel"

Songs I really like....."Godz" "More" "skull of your country"

Then top notch songs I'd have on a best of CD....."speaking in tongues" "loving you.."

Then there are 3 I think could be in the meat vault with the likes of bat / IWDAFL / 2 out of 3 / CHSIB / Blind as a Bat etc etc etc would be...."train of love" "souvenirs" and the unbelievable "going all the way."

I hope I'm still alive at 68. Let alone still proving how gifted I am!!!!

robgomm
10 Sep 2016, 19:28
Sorry i know its reviews, just to let yas know Meat is back at number 1 on Amazon:D

Are you sure? Shows at no. 4 on mine, still no. 1 at tesco

ashkent7
10 Sep 2016, 19:55
News from the front!
I've been on a bit of a Springsteen binge the past few months but over the past couple of weeks came back to a Meat binge for the release of the album and this is a fantastic album.

Funny I always alternate between the two when i just really connect with either Bruce or Meat and there is usually some kind of cross over period when i feel myself drifting from one to the other. Back in July when i first heard this i instantly became "Bruce who?" there was no transition, i just needed Meat and particularly Meat with Jim. Now the album is in the car nothing else is getting played for the foreseeable.

ThatWriterGuy
10 Sep 2016, 20:11
Who Needs The Young is such a great song. The arrangement, from the faux southern rock intro to the slightly unhinged period vaudeville satire (all done with a seamless slide in tone), is right on. The whole production screams Queen, in a really good way. Meat's vocals are perfect on this one. The more I hear it, the better it gets.

I love that vibe. It's what I'd describe as 'theatrical whimsy'. Seriously -- incredibly cool.

The first time I heard it -- it must've been two years ago now. Jim sent me two demo versions with different arrangements and his own vocals. I'm glad it finally found a home on this album (and I'd even go as far as to say that this is the definitive version of that song).

AndrewG
10 Sep 2016, 20:20
My review as posted on Amazon (yes I bought the vinyl version from there):


A Great Final Goodbye from Meat Loaf

I mostly love the album. Going All The Way is Just The Start is an incredible song. I absolutely love it. I'm listening to it over and over again. The love for this song reminds me of how much I fell in love with Bat out of Hell (the song) and I'd do Anything For Love (But I Won't Do That). The first time I listened to Anything For Love I was just amazed when I was a young teenager. It inspired me so much and taught me what was possible with music; musically and also emotionally. I've been a massive fan of Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman since. On Going All The Way ... the female vocals from Karla and Ellen are superb. The experienced older man's voice from Meat is very fitting. The instrumentation and production are just perfect. From the haunting guitar intro to the hectic piano parts that reminds me of Bat and Anything For Love. Paul Crook and Jim's advice did a great job especially here on the production. The 6 parts flow together perfectly to create a rock opera that really stands out on this album. The song is just pure Meat & Jim magic. I never liked the demos of this song which I heard before but this rendition makes it for me as good a track as Anything For Love and Bat are.

Other stand out moments for me are Souvenirs with its beautiful saxophone intro. It is musically very similar to Left in The Dark. But I definitely prefer this than Meat's rendition of the alternative song from Welcome To The Neighbourhood. On there the production just lacked sophistication. Speaking in Tongues has superb lyrics and the new bridge lyrics are gorgeous. Only When I feel flows into More really well and for me is better than Break It how Meat performed it in 2005 on his live tour. Godz is fun and features the music from Bolero which was the introduction to Bat all those years ago during Meat and Jim's first Bat out of Hell tour. It's definitely a lot better than Who Needs The Young I reckon.Train of Love is a fun rocky closer.

I quite like Loving you's a dirty job but for me it's not as good as Bonnie's rendition. It has a nice back track and is just a very different take on the song. And to be fair Bonnie's version was easily the best track on her Secret Dreams and Forbidden Fire album. Here we get Going All The Way as a stand out track so that easily makes up for this minor flaw. It's still better than some of Meat's other covers of older Steinman songs when Steinman didn't contribute any production consultancy. Better than Meat's "It's All Coming Back To Me Now" for example I reckon.

The ONLY really bad thing I would say here is they should have dropped Who Needs the Young? I struggle with that song so much. I get it was a special track for Jim Steinman (the writer) as it was his first but it seems to heavily detract from what could have been a grandiose opening to this final album that Meat Loaf has recorded. It's pretty much the only criticism I can think of that stands out.

Sure Meat's vocals are no longer as bombastic as in the 90s and he no longer is capable of singing with a massive vocal range but many vocalists struggle when they get older. Look at Todd Rundgren. He used to provide stunning background vocals for Meat & Jim and has ended up with a very nasally voice which is much worse than that of Meat here. (Look up Rundgren's Two out of Three Ain't Bad cover if you want to hear bad unbearable vocals!)

I was expecting a somewhat decline in Meat's voice so my ears were probably tuned to this. I appreciate others can't cope with this so much but there is a lot to like here. Thus I still think this album is a superb goodbye. It was always going to divide fans I thought. However opening with Who Needs The Young? perhaps was a bit of mistake and edges more people in the dislike category faster. Maybe not, it's just a guess on my part.

For me this easily ranks amongst the best 5 or 6 albums Meat has done and for me that makes it 5 stars. Going All The Way... is easily worth the cost of the album on its own. No one else makes music quite like that.

I bought the vinyl and CD versions. The vinyl is very good quality but a bit tight on my turntable's center spindle.

I can highly recommend this album to Meat's dedicated fans but perhaps have a listen to the previews to see what you're in for.

For me it's a great, great, great listen.

ashkent7
10 Sep 2016, 20:23
Who Needs The Young is such a great song. The arrangement, from the faux southern rock intro to the slightly unhinged period vaudeville satire (all done with a seamless slide in tone), is right on. The whole production screams Queen, in a really good way. Meat's vocals are perfect on this one. The more I hear it, the better it gets.

I love that vibe. It's what I'd describe as 'theatrical whimsy'. Seriously -- incredibly cool.

It puts me in mind of walking up to a slightly creepy big top where something doesn't seem right but the show has started and you have to see where its going. Again in a good way. Love the whole theatrics of it. For me it is best example of two things...how good Paul's production is and Justin's backing vocal arrangements. Basically the only two people I have seen who can "do Jim" other than Jim himself.

ashkent7
10 Sep 2016, 20:31
Oh and I love it when i find something on Amazon that i feel passionate enough to review just because i know somewhere along the line, some one is going to try and troll me.

The best comment I have found so far is someone called Jonathan G who hit me with "Grow up, move on. Nothing lasts forever".

Thanks for that Jonathan...other than the fact i have worked very hard not to grow up in the last few decades, am too happy where i am to move on, and clearly say multiple times that Meat's voice isn't a "good" voice as some want but while the long line of CDs on my shelf which most certainly include Braver will not last forever the music they contain definitely will. Other than that though i think his comment was all fair and spot on. The full stop, basically. Well done that man.

Oh i love people who have to have a go at other people's opinions. I'm such a f&^&ing freak :lol:

glockenspiel
10 Sep 2016, 20:32
It puts me in mind of walking up to a slightly creepy big top where something doesn't seem right but the show has started and you have to see where its going.

Nicely put. Forget the 'X Factor' .. This record has got the 'WTF? Factor' - which is a whole lot more interesting ......

(Re: Who Needs The Young)

ThatWriterGuy
10 Sep 2016, 20:51
Y'know, I'll be brutally honest, for me the production is missing a little something (just 'a little' something mind), but I much prefer this production to the production on HCTB -- and that was Rob Cavallo :cool: So I guess what I'm saying, RE BRAVER, is that I love the production -- does that make sense? It does to me! And that part that it's missing? The BAT-ness. It's hard not to have that as your default position sometimes I guess. But again, that was then, this is now, and this album is something completely different (and I mean that -- it ain't just no flim-flam, no sir. straight up truth.).

stretch37
10 Sep 2016, 21:38
Sorry i know its reviews, just to let yas know Meat is back at number 1 on Amazon:D

Where do u see that? I guess you got the numbers early since they're not showing up on the site yet? Great news - thanks for the update Paul :cool:

nikox1
10 Sep 2016, 21:40
Where do u see that? I guess you got the numbers early since they're not showing up on the site yet? Great news - thanks for the update Paul :cool:

3+ hours ago, at 4 now, i think mp3 version is still one

stretch37
10 Sep 2016, 21:44
3+ hours ago, at 4 now, i think mp3 version is still one

Ah, Yeah I guess it's allowed to fluctuate

babyblue558
11 Sep 2016, 01:21
Have to respectfully disagree with the Bowie statement -- just because the comparison between Bowie and Meat is in a very different ballpark, and in very different measures. I love BRAVER, and I don't have a bad word to say about it (just many, many good ones) -- however, Bowie's vocals were excellent right up to the end. Could he hit the notes like he did back in '71? Not quite -- but that's more like comparing Meat's BAT vocals with his vocals on BAT 2. Meat and Bowie -- two VERY different artists.

To clarify: I didn't mean to compare the two's styles literally. I agree, totally different. I was thinking specifically of when Bowie released Where Are We Now? in 2013 after a 10-year-long absence. I remember at the time YouTube comments were saying stuff like 'He sounds old and ill', 'His voice has lost power' etc. Also the bellowed chorus of The Next Day defiantly sums up Meat's predicament fairly well: 'here I am, not quite dying'. Bowie is another one who often compared singing to acting a character and said he never sang songs as himself. That's what I had in mind when I compared the two. In all other aspects they are very individual and different though.

NightAngel
11 Sep 2016, 02:36
I love the whole album. It is brilliant. I've sat and listened to it many times. It gets better each time I listen. I discover new things .... I sit is awe...and thing MY GOD Meat!!! OMG!!!!...(a good, love kind of OMG)

It has touched me in many ways. Each song for different reasons. As a woman Souvenirs has made me feel things I don't normally feel....many things ...resonates... shocks me... confronts me.. has brought me to tears.....and I love it for what it does.

Speaking in Tongues...just beautiful. Skull...love!


I will say this about it.. The plethora of emotion I have felt through listening to this beautiful piece of work has been, Well emotional.....there has been tears...there has been smiles...there has been more tears.. more smiles ..giggles at some (think -Who Needs The Young :) ).

Rarely does an Artist make me feel so much. Meat does, has again, and always has, since 1977. Brilliant. Epic. A work of art.... Love!!!!!! xxx

PJ_Willow
11 Sep 2016, 08:53
What are you guys smoking? I've barely managed 1 listen. I have every other album but I can't listen to this. Meats voice has gone, I'm not accepting this 'oooh it's a character - it's ironic...' pseudo intellectual artsy farty stuff. Who needs the young is offensive to the ears, and that's before the vocal comes in. The rest of the album is more or less the same with the obvious exception.

The 3 previous releases were in a different league. When people talk about Meats top tracks they can talk of an enormous vocal range and a huge operatic sound. That's just not there. He's talking his way through songs. When I hear 90% of any other album I think NOBODY can do it like that, now I'm thinking ANYBODY can sing it better. Its not even singing. Ask yourself, what would meat in his 20s say about someone else churning this out?

Steinman has either lost the plot or is just laughing at us all. 'Turn around..' Really??? The electronic parts sound like an old guy finding a new tool in the studio. Don't tell me... it's a post-modern take on how we interpret nostalgic tones in the modern age. I was desperate for some new Steinman material but he is indulging his love of the stage, as he always wanted to - not looking to make great records. It'd hard to judge the songs without a real vocal but my initial thought is they were left I'm the can for a reason.

This is all 10 years too late. This is a the old group getting back together for a bit of a laugh but it's been released to the public. Meat and Jim are playing - having a giggle. And that's fine, for the absolute works of genius they have given us I have no problem with it. They deserve it. But please, don't be fan boys and make this out to be something it's not.

Somebody should have stepped in and said no, let it go - it's too late. This is the opinion of many music journalists. I can't believe what I am reading on here, and most of you slay BAT 3 which is a decent piece of work. Well... This is only after Meat said he hated it.

I can see why Wario loves execution day, I just don't see how anyone can enjoy this.

stretch37
11 Sep 2016, 08:58
I've got no problem with your opinion of the record. just a big problem with how offended you are at those who like it. Perhaps leave that part out next time...Obviously you have all the answers but be decent to others and to Meat please.
What are you guys smoking? I've barely managed 1 listen. I have every other album but I can't listen to this. Meats voice has gone, I'm not accepting this 'oooh it's a character - it's ironic...' pseudo intellectual artsy farty stuff. Who needs the young is offensive to the ears, and that's before the vocal comes in. The rest of the album is more or less the same with the obvious exception.

The 3 previous releases were in a different league. When people talk about Meats top tracks they can talk of an enormous vocal range and a huge operatic sound. That's just not there. He's talking his way through songs. When I hear 90% of any other album I think NOBODY can do it like that, now I'm thinking ANYBODY can sing it better. Its not even singing. Ask yourself, what would meat in his 20s say about someone else churning this out?

Steinman has either lost the plot or is just laughing at us all. 'Turn around..' Really??? The electronic parts sound like an old guy finding a new tool in the studio. Don't tell me... it's a post-modern take on how we interpret nostalgic tones in the modern age. I was desperate for some new Steinman material but he is indulging his love of the stage, as he always wanted to - not looking to make great records. It'd hard to judge the songs without a real vocal but my initial thought is they were left I'm the can for a reason.

This is all 10 years too late. This is a the old group getting back together for a bit of a laugh but it's been released to the public. Meat and Jim are playing - having a giggle. And that's fine, for the absolute works of genius they have given us I have no problem with it. They deserve it. But please, don't be fan boys and make this out to be something it's not.

Somebody should have stepped in and said no, let it go - it's too late. This is the opinion of many music journalists. I can't believe what I am reading on here, and most of you slay BAT 3 which is a decent piece of work. Well... This is only after Meat said he hated it.

I can see why Wario loves execution day, I just don't see how anyone can enjoy this.

robgomm
11 Sep 2016, 09:32
What are you guys smoking? I've barely managed 1 listen. I have every other album but I can't listen to this. Meats voice has gone, I'm not accepting this 'oooh it's a character - it's ironic...' pseudo intellectual artsy farty stuff. Who needs the young is offensive to the ears, and that's before the vocal comes in. The rest of the album is more or less the same with the obvious exception.

The 3 previous releases were in a different league. When people talk about Meats top tracks they can talk of an enormous vocal range and a huge operatic sound. That's just not there. He's talking his way through songs. When I hear 90% of any other album I think NOBODY can do it like that, now I'm thinking ANYBODY can sing it better. Its not even singing. Ask yourself, what would meat in his 20s say about someone else churning this out?

Steinman has either lost the plot or is just laughing at us all. 'Turn around..' Really??? The electronic parts sound like an old guy finding a new tool in the studio. Don't tell me... it's a post-modern take on how we interpret nostalgic tones in the modern age. I was desperate for some new Steinman material but he is indulging his love of the stage, as he always wanted to - not looking to make great records. It'd hard to judge the songs without a real vocal but my initial thought is they were left I'm the can for a reason.

This is all 10 years too late. This is a the old group getting back together for a bit of a laugh but it's been released to the public. Meat and Jim are playing - having a giggle. And that's fine, for the absolute works of genius they have given us I have no problem with it. They deserve it. But please, don't be fan boys and make this out to be something it's not.

Somebody should have stepped in and said no, let it go - it's too late. This is the opinion of many music journalists. I can't believe what I am reading on here, and most of you slay BAT 3 which is a decent piece of work. Well... This is only after Meat said he hated it.

I can see why Wario loves execution day, I just don't see how anyone can enjoy this.

This is just so incredibly disrespectful. This forum has become a lot better in recent times, please don't bring it back down. If you can't post anything in a respectful thoughtful way, please don't post at all.

glockenspiel
11 Sep 2016, 09:40
What are you guys smoking? ...

The 3 previous releases were in a different league.



The 3 previous releases were also roundly criticized, however, for being too conventional, so, on that level, perhaps we can indulge Steinman & Loaf's long-standing taste for the absurd ??

ThatWriterGuy
11 Sep 2016, 10:34
What are you guys smoking? I've barely managed 1 listen. I have every other album but I can't listen to this. Meats voice has gone, I'm not accepting this 'oooh it's a character - it's ironic...' pseudo intellectual artsy farty stuff. Who needs the young is offensive to the ears, and that's before the vocal comes in. The rest of the album is more or less the same with the obvious exception.

The 3 previous releases were in a different league. When people talk about Meats top tracks they can talk of an enormous vocal range and a huge operatic sound. That's just not there. He's talking his way through songs. When I hear 90% of any other album I think NOBODY can do it like that, now I'm thinking ANYBODY can sing it better. Its not even singing. Ask yourself, what would meat in his 20s say about someone else churning this out?

Steinman has either lost the plot or is just laughing at us all. 'Turn around..' Really??? The electronic parts sound like an old guy finding a new tool in the studio. Don't tell me... it's a post-modern take on how we interpret nostalgic tones in the modern age. I was desperate for some new Steinman material but he is indulging his love of the stage, as he always wanted to - not looking to make great records. It'd hard to judge the songs without a real vocal but my initial thought is they were left I'm the can for a reason.

This is all 10 years too late. This is a the old group getting back together for a bit of a laugh but it's been released to the public. Meat and Jim are playing - having a giggle. And that's fine, for the absolute works of genius they have given us I have no problem with it. They deserve it. But please, don't be fan boys and make this out to be something it's not.

Somebody should have stepped in and said no, let it go - it's too late. This is the opinion of many music journalists. I can't believe what I am reading on here, and most of you slay BAT 3 which is a decent piece of work. Well... This is only after Meat said he hated it.

I can see why Wario loves execution day, I just don't see how anyone can enjoy this.

It's already been said, but -- I've got no problem with you voicing how and why you don't like this album (it actually makes pretty interesting reading), but lay off the personal insults.

As for 'pseudo intellectual artsy farty stuff' ... that really says more about you (and your lack of understanding) than the people who like the record (in most cases). If you don't understand what you're trying to critique, then you're arguing from ignorance, and you end up looking, well, pretty dumb. Reading your post it's like you were expecting BAT or BAT II. I get it. That's the default position. Most people who haven't heard anything since Welcome To The Neighborhood and Bat III are going to be shocked. But that's the thing -- and if you've followed ML these past few months you'll likely know this anyway: you were never going to get that with this album. It was never going to be a BAT sounding record -- and that's for a multitude of reasons (and, yeah, not ALL of them are artistic).

The only irony I can see is in you quoting other people as saying this album is ironic, when in fact no one has said that on this board at all -- other than you. That's pretty ironic. Not to mention the fact that you contradict yourself ("I've no problem with it"/"it should've never been released!!" etc. I'm paraphrasing, but what the hell).

Feel free not to like the album -- in all sincerity -- that's cool. But don't make blanket statements and strawman arguments from ignorance. You had half a decent post up there. It would've been cool to hear WHY you didn't like the album without resorting to all of the above.

Wario
11 Sep 2016, 10:46
Don't put execution day (I prefer that title to BBIS) in the same league as this.

While I love your post, people are to their own opinion alas.

You're gonna get so much hate but you make good points.

This record while I don't think it's bad, it's really REALLY flawed.

What are you guys smoking? I've barely managed 1 listen. I have every other album but I can't listen to this. Meats voice has gone, I'm not accepting this 'oooh it's a character - it's ironic...' pseudo intellectual artsy farty stuff. Who needs the young is offensive to the ears, and that's before the vocal comes in. The rest of the album is more or less the same with the obvious exception.

The 3 previous releases were in a different league. When people talk about Meats top tracks they can talk of an enormous vocal range and a huge operatic sound. That's just not there. He's talking his way through songs. When I hear 90% of any other album I think NOBODY can do it like that, now I'm thinking ANYBODY can sing it better. Its not even singing. Ask yourself, what would meat in his 20s say about someone else churning this out?

Steinman has either lost the plot or is just laughing at us all. 'Turn around..' Really??? The electronic parts sound like an old guy finding a new tool in the studio. Don't tell me... it's a post-modern take on how we interpret nostalgic tones in the modern age. I was desperate for some new Steinman material but he is indulging his love of the stage, as he always wanted to - not looking to make great records. It'd hard to judge the songs without a real vocal but my initial thought is they were left I'm the can for a reason.

This is all 10 years too late. This is a the old group getting back together for a bit of a laugh but it's been released to the public. Meat and Jim are playing - having a giggle. And that's fine, for the absolute works of genius they have given us I have no problem with it. They deserve it. But please, don't be fan boys and make this out to be something it's not.

Somebody should have stepped in and said no, let it go - it's too late. This is the opinion of many music journalists. I can't believe what I am reading on here, and most of you slay BAT 3 which is a decent piece of work. Well... This is only after Meat said he hated it.

I can see why Wario loves execution day, I just don't see how anyone can enjoy this.

Savant!!!
11 Sep 2016, 11:27
As someone who doesn't post much (I read the forums), I would just like to give my opinion.

To say that this is a disappointment is an understatement. Having waited 23 years since BAT 2 I expected some NEW SONGS, ie songs which Jim has written but we were not aware of. ALL the songs on this album are available on Youtube or from dowlnoads from the Dream Engine performances and any fan of Steinman would have been aware of them.

Why is Meat Loaf doing versions More and Loving You? - Presumably to fill the album with Steinman songs. They are associated with other artists and I see no reason to do versions of them.

Most of the other songs are simply scrapping the barrel of 30-40 years demos from Jim's early work. The demos are better than these versions due to the shambolic vocals.

GATW - Nice song but too long and repetitive at times. Speaking in Tongues is a nice song but the Meat Loafs vocals are just to dull. Also the bridge sounds a mess - why have a female vocal overlaying Meats vocal (to cover up the lackluster performance??).

My biggest gripe is the vocals - how this got through any QA is beyond belief. How Jim OK this is staggering - would he have accepted this performance if he was producing?? NO!!!. Meat sounds like he can't be bothered or is on medication when performing them. Steinman songs HAVE to be songs with passion and drive and the performance on this is simply embarrassing. How Meat can claim that this is better that Bat 1 is laughable.

I think this album confirms 2 things. 1) Jim has all but stopped writing NEW SONGS or doing production work and I presume will officially announce his retirement after the BAT Musical opens and 2) Meat Loafs voice is completely shot. He sounds like he's speaking rather than singing.

I rate this alum 4/10 and that for the cover and the female vocals - pity Ellen didn't do all the vocals. Sorry for the bad review but to see such a poor/lazy album from the duo that created BAT 1 and BAT 2 is just sad.:(

ThatWriterGuy
11 Sep 2016, 11:43
Having waited 23 years since BAT 2 I expected some NEW SONGS

You said this about Bat III, too -- ten years ago. If you've been following the fourm (and you said that you have) then you should've known that you wouldn't be getting any 'new' songs from Jim. That's been pretty much a given for at least six months. There are reasons for this, but you haven't got a single one of them right.

As for the rest -- I don't agree with the most of it, but hey, your opinion, man (and while it's opinion, it's definitely not fact).

AndrewG
11 Sep 2016, 11:46
It's already been said, but -- I've got no problem with you voicing how and why you don't like this album (it actually makes pretty interesting reading), but lay off the personal insults.

As for 'pseudo intellectual artsy farty stuff' ... that really says more about you (and your lack of understanding) than the people who like the record (in most cases). If you don't understand what you're trying to critique, then you're arguing from ignorance, and you end up looking, well, pretty dumb. Reading your post it's like you were expecting BAT or BAT II. I get it. That's the default position. Most people who haven't heard anything since Welcome To The Neighborhood and Bat III are going to be shocked. But that's the thing -- and if you've followed ML these past few months you'll likely know this anyway: you were never going to get that with this album. It was never going to be a BAT sounding record -- and that's for a multitude of reasons (and, yeah, not ALL of them are artistic).

The only irony I can see is in you quoting other people as saying this album is ironic, when in fact no one has said that on this board at all -- other than you. That's pretty ironic. Not to mention the fact that you contradict yourself ("I've no problem with it"/"it should've never been released!!" etc. I'm paraphrasing, but what the hell).

Feel free not to like the album -- in all sincerity -- that's cool. But don't make blanket statements and strawman arguments from ignorance. You had half a decent post up there. It would've been cool to hear WHY you didn't like the album without resorting to all of the above.

:up::up::up:

Savant!!!
11 Sep 2016, 12:03
Of course I was aware that there were NO new songs (only when the tracklisting appeared on Amazon in July). To say I was disappointed at seeing that tracklisting is an understatement - More and Loving You? PLEASE.

Jim is supposed to be a songwriter but comes across as quite lazy in the endless recycling and allowing cover versions of other artists versions. As you seem to be in know can you enlighten use fans of Meat and Jim why there are no new unreleased material?

Jim has hardly been busy since TANZ. What happened the all the songs from the BAT 3 which Jim talked about in his blog? Were they only songs titles? Jim said he knew how to finish Renegade Angel? Where's that? The BAT Musical?

Anyway for me its time to move on as the Jim / Meat Loaf era is sadly over for me.

Wario
11 Sep 2016, 12:07
As someone who doesn't post much (I read the forums), I would just like to give my opinion.

To say that this is a disappointment is an understatement. Having waited 23 years since BAT 2 I expected some NEW SONGS, ie songs which Jim has written but we were not aware of. ALL the songs on this album are available on Youtube or from dowlnoads from the Dream Engine performances and any fan of Steinman would have been aware of them.

Why is Meat Loaf doing versions More and Loving You? - Presumably to fill the album with Steinman songs. They are associated with other artists and I see no reason to do versions of them.

Most of the other songs are simply scrapping the barrel of 30-40 years demos from Jim's early work. The demos are better than these versions due to the shambolic vocals.

GATW - Nice song but too long and repetitive at times. Speaking in Tongues is a nice song but the Meat Loafs vocals are just to dull. Also the bridge sounds a mess - why have a female vocal overlaying Meats vocal (to cover up the lackluster performance??).

My biggest gripe is the vocals - how this got through any QA is beyond belief. How Jim OK this is staggering - would he have accepted this performance if he was producing?? NO!!!. Meat sounds like he can't be bothered or is on medication when performing them. Steinman songs HAVE to be songs with passion and drive and the performance on this is simply embarrassing. How Meat can claim that this is better that Bat 1 is laughable.

I think this album confirms 2 things. 1) Jim has all but stopped writing NEW SONGS or doing production work and I presume will officially announce his retirement after the BAT Musical opens and 2) Meat Loafs voice is completely shot. He sounds like he's speaking rather than singing.

I rate this alum 4/10 and that for the cover and the female vocals - pity Ellen didn't do all the vocals. Sorry for the bad review but to see such a poor/lazy album from the duo that created BAT 1 and BAT 2 is just sad.:(

It's sad I honestly agree with a lot of this post.

AndrewG
11 Sep 2016, 12:08
Anyway for me its time to move on as the Jim / Meat Loaf era is sadly over for me.

One can easily do this without making some sort of announcement on the fan forum of either of these artists. There is plenty of other great music out there to enjoy. ;)

BATOUTOFHEAVEN
11 Sep 2016, 12:10
I'm a regular reader of the forum but I don't post that often and in all honesty I can't stop listening to this album. There was a comment earlier on this thread saying the youth might not be able to appreciate this, well I'm 20 and I think this is as good as the first two Bat albums which is ridiculously high praise. I haven't listened to any other versions of these songs aside from the Bonnie version of Loving you because in my opinion Bonnie is the only artist aside from Meat who can do Steinman songs justice.

Who Needs The Young didn't hit me at first listening. I felt it was a strange choice for an opener but the more I've listened to it, the more I appreciate it's craziness. I love the musical arrangement on it and Meat's older voice really suits this song. The only complaint is that I feel it could have benefitted from a guitar solo either at the start or the end of the song. 8/10

Going All The Way can only be described as a masterpiece of epic proportions, it's great to have Ellen and Karla on this record and their three voices compliment each other brilliantly. I love the way it builds to a crescendo and it's one of the best songs Meat has ever done. 9.5/10

Speaking In Tongues is exactly what is needed after such an epic song, it is an emotional masterpiece and again Stacy and Meat compliment each other brilliantly. This song encaptures for me more than any other song on this record that Meat's ability to play a character in a song allows him to use his aging voice in a positive way on this record. 9/10

Loving You's A Dirty Job was the song I was most worried about, I absolutely love the Bonnie Tyler version and I wasn't sure if Meat could match or beat that. I was completely wrong. I love the different style that has been adopted for this version and it almost feels like a new song. Again, Stacy and Meat compliment each other vocals perfectly and this is one of my favourite songs on the record. 9/10

Souvenirs is all about the saxophone for me, I love it's use on this song just as much as when it was used on Rock & Roll Dreams Come Through and it's just another fantastic song. I do feel that it is a bit too long though but I am just nitpicking here. 8.5/10

Only When I Feel seems to be splitting opinion but from my personal experience Meat's vocal is far from unbearable in this. He puts across the emotion that is needed for this song and it lifts the song from something average to something very good and it's a good transition into the next song. 7.5/10

More is another opinion splitting song but for me it's the rockier song that the record needed and it's been stuck in my head for the last day. The music in this one is spellbinding and it's the song where Paul's production really stands out for me. I apologise in advance for the pun but my only complaint is that there isn't more of this. 9/10

Godz is a song I would love to hear live. I've always secretly wanted to hear some lyrics to go with the Boleros of Fire music and I love the lyrics and the way Meat delivers them. It's clearly a passionate political message and I really dig it. 8.5/10

Skull of Your Country is the one disappointing song on this record, the "turn around" section is too repetitive and never really goes anywhere. Cian's vocals are great but the song itself leads you into thinking it's building into something but never does. The first minute is great too which is what makes it all the more disappointing. 4/10

Train of Love is probably the most simple song on the album. A fun, catchy rock song to finish the record is a strange way of finishing the album. I almost feel like the album could do with another song after this one. The song itself is good though, no denying that and it completes one of the great Meat records in my opinion. 7/10

I can totally understand that some people don't like this album but I love it and it completes a brilliant career perfectly. Jim and Meat back doing what they do best.


Meat Loaf albums ranked from best to worst (just my opinion of course)
Bat 2
Braver Than We Are
Bat 1

Hang Cool Teddy Bear
Bat 3
Bad Attitude
Couldn't Have Said It Better
Blind Before I Stop

Hell In A Handbasket
Dead Ringer

Welcome to the Neighbourhood
Midnight At the Lost And Found

Wario
11 Sep 2016, 12:13
I'm a regular reader of the forum but I don't post that often and in all honesty I can't stop listening to this album. There was a comment earlier on this thread saying the youth might not be able to appreciate this, well I'm 20 and I think this is as good as the first two Bat albums which is ridiculously high praise. I haven't listened to any other versions of these songs aside from the Bonnie version of Loving you because in my opinion Bonnie is the only artist aside from Meat who can do Steinman songs justice.

Who Needs The Young didn't hit me at first listening. I felt it was a strange choice for an opener but the more I've listened to it, the more I appreciate it's craziness. I love the musical arrangement on it and Meat's older voice really suits this song. The only complaint is that I feel it could have benefitted from a guitar solo either at the start or the end of the song. 8/10

Going All The Way can only be described as a masterpiece of epic proportions, it's great to have Ellen and Karla on this record and their three voices compliment each other brilliantly. I love the way it builds to a crescendo and it's one of the best songs Meat has ever done. 9.5/10

Speaking In Tongues is exactly what is needed after such an epic song, it is an emotional masterpiece and again Stacy and Meat compliment each other brilliantly. This song encaptures for me more than any other song on this record that Meat's ability to play a character in a song allows him to use his aging voice in a positive way on this record. 9/10

Loving You's A Dirty Job was the song I was most worried about, I absolutely love the Bonnie Tyler version and I wasn't sure if Meat could match or beat that. I was completely wrong. I love the different style that has been adopted for this version and it almost feels like a new song. Again, Stacy and Meat compliment each other vocals perfectly and this is one of my favourite songs on the record. 9/10

Souvenirs is all about the saxophone for me, I love it's use on this song just as much as when it was used on Rock & Roll Dreams Come Through and it's just another fantastic song. I do feel that it is a bit too long though but I am just nitpicking here. 8.5/10

Only When I Feel seems to be splitting opinion but from my personal experience Meat's vocal is far from unbearable in this. He puts across the emotion that is needed for this song and it lifts the song from something average to something very good and it's a good transition into the next song. 7.5/10

More is another opinion splitting song but for me it's the rockier song that the record needed and it's been stuck in my head for the last day. The music in this one is spellbinding and it's the song where Paul's production really stands out for me. I apologise in advance for the pun but my only complaint is that there isn't more of this. 9/10

Godz is a song I would love to hear live. I've always secretly wanted to hear some lyrics to go with the Boleros of Fire music and I love the lyrics and the way Meat delivers them. It's clearly a passionate political message and I really dig it. 8.5/10

Skull of Your Country is the one disappointing song on this record, the "turn around" section is too repetitive and never really goes anywhere. Cian's vocals are great but the song itself leads you into thinking it's building into something but never does. The first minute is great too which is what makes it all the more disappointing. 4/10

Train of Love is probably the most simple song on the album. A fun, catchy rock song to finish the record is a strange way of finishing the album. I almost feel like the album could do with another song after this one. The song itself is good though, no denying that and it completes one of the great Meat records in my opinion. 7/10

I can totally understand that some people don't like this album but I love it and it completes a brilliant career perfectly. Jim and Meat back doing what they do best.


Meat Loaf albums ranked from best to worst (just my opinion of course)
Bat 2
Braver Than We Are
Bat 1

Hang Cool Teddy Bear
Bat 3
Bad Attitude
Couldn't Have Said It Better
Blind Before I Stop

Hell In A Handbasket
Dead Ringer

Welcome to the Neighbourhood
Midnight At the Lost And Found

Better than Bat 1? Um ok lol

ThatWriterGuy
11 Sep 2016, 12:15
Of course I was aware that there were NO new songs

Then why are you complaining about it like it's some kind of a 'sham'? You already knew this before the album came out, so it wasn't a surprise.Trolling, or just an attention seeker? I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt at first.


Jim is supposed to be a songwriter but comes across as quite lazy in the endless recycling and allowing cover versions of other artists versions. As you seem to be in know can you enlighten use fans of Meat and Jim why there are no new unreleased material?

I could, but I'm not going to. Every single sentence in your posts are 'baited', like you want a reaction from people here so you can engage in a pointless argument. It's just sad, man, that's all.



Jim has hardly been busy since TANZ...

If you actually believe that, you have no clue of what you're talking about :roll:

ChrisBelfast
11 Sep 2016, 12:18
Somebody should have stepped in and said no, let it go - it's too late. This is the opinion of many music journalists.

Can you share any of these - I don't recall seeing any like that yet.

BATOUTOFHEAVEN
11 Sep 2016, 12:20
Better than Bat 1? Um ok lol

In my opinion yes, Bat 1 didn't hit me emotionally like this has. With the aging of his voice you can hear more emotion and that's what is important to me and I think there are more great songs on this record too.

Most people wouldn't agree with that and I understand and respect their opinion but that's just how I see it.

Savant!!!
11 Sep 2016, 12:36
Firstly I'm not baiting just stating a fact that its very disappointing that they are no NEW SONGS - when Meat said there would be 9 Steinman songs I expected some songs I had already heard but I did expect something new.

I can't recall too many NEW songs from Jim since TANZ (1997) - songs written and produced by Jim and which have been available commercially. Can you list them as I seem to have missed them.

My comments are out of frustration because you wait for NEW Steinman songs year after year and nothing appears and when Meat and Jim work together again we just get "Old material again and cover versions". Its just very disappointing and I am sure you would like to hear new songs.

When artists release new albums you do expect something new to listen to as it make it more interesting.

AndrewG
11 Sep 2016, 12:42
When artists release new albums you do expect something new to listen to as it make it more interesting.

Except that because of the Internet we knew all these tracks existed. It ruins things for the super hardcore fans.
Springsteen has had the same. He releases a box set of unreleased tracks, all the hardcore fans have them already in bootleg form so then they whine about there is nothing new here.

How many English speaking Meat Loaf fans even know about tanz?

Evil One
11 Sep 2016, 12:42
I can see why Wario loves execution day, I just don't see how anyone can enjoy this.Execution Day is great, and better than most of this album.

I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said. Karla, Ellen, Stacy and Cian all sound awesome. Meat's vocals vary from pretty good to not so good. The production and musicianship is generally top notch, although there are flaws.

Going All The Way, Dirty Job and Tongues are amazing. More is ok, but not as good as the Sisters Of Mercy version. The other songs are a load of old tat that should have stayed in whatever dusty drawer Jim has hidden them in for 40 years. I assume any good 'new' songs are under contract to the musical?

I was really looking forward to this when it was first announced, and then incredibly deflated once the track list was revealed. In my opinion the old songs just aren't good enough and there is a reason they've remained unused for so long, even by the master recycler.

Overall the CD is worth the money for the three songs I like as they are fantastic, but the rest is a colossal disappointment.

Hell In A Handbasket with old Steinman songs is a good description for this album, only most of the songs from Handbasket are better. :shock:

'Be careful what you wish for' is an apt phrase I guess?

ThatWriterGuy
11 Sep 2016, 12:42
Firstly I'm not baiting just stating a fact that its very disappointing that they are no NEW SONGS - when Meat said there would be 9 Steinman songs I expected some songs I had already heard but I did expect something new.

You are, and you've also contradicted yourself (again!), but don't worry about it :cool:


I can't recall too many NEW songs from Jim since TANZ (1997) - songs written and produced by Jim and which have been available commercially. Can you list them as I seem to have missed them.

Strawman argument -- see previous posts. And, for the record, just because Jim hasn't released 'any new songs' since that period, it doesn't mean that he's been 'doing nothing'. Quite the contrary.


My comments are out of frustration because you wait for NEW Steinman songs year after year and nothing appears and when Meat and Jim work together again we just get "Old material again and cover versions".

I get that, man, I really do. But now you've said it. What are you gonna do -- say it again just in case someone didn't read it the first sixteen times?


Its just very disappointing and I am sure you would like to hear new songs.
When artists release new albums you do expect something new to listen to as it make it more interesting.

You're SURE that 'I' would like to hear new songs? You 'sure' you're sure about that? How do you know that I haven't heard them already?

Food for thought.

chairboys
11 Sep 2016, 13:49
My view of BTWA:

Whilst looking forward to the new release, for once in my Meat career I was incredibly calm in the buildup. I didn't preorder and indeed, up until last week, I bizarrely had it in my head that the launch date was next Friday!
Anyway, I took a leisurely trip into town and forked out a tenner in that pioneering music retailer where every little helps.
My expectations were tempered by a mixture of varying reviews here and my own less than enthusiastic endorsement of HIAH.
All I wanna do is attach superlatives to a Meat album!
But, sadly, I am unable to.
So, what was my experience like?
As usual, the play button creates a surge in shoulder tension and sweating metatarsals.
Track one is so out there I need a tardis to fly me there. ( anyone else hear AC/DC's Jack at the start?)
Tracks 2 (edited) and 3 I'd heard on my mobile with very poor sound quality.
Track 4. Do we need a rehash of a Bonnie classic?
And so it goes on, more old tunes with an older voice.
And don't get me on bonus tracks. A separate disc maybe but not a continuation of brand new material. Well, old material.
Im sorry if this paints a gloomy picture.
I must now deliver a word which best descibes my feelings on this.
Obviously, I cannot muster a superlative this time so I will use what the dictionary says is of the highest quality or degree.
Yep, superlative itself.
Once the ref blew the whistle nerves quickly disappeared and the old excitement returned.
The initial run was hard to take in fully but I knew the old magic was back.
I'm pleased I've "got it" and bloody hell it's great feeling.
I must stop writing as I need to release the pause button and rock out.
Just a footnote on the voice. I'm really comfortable with it and I wasn't sure I'd be able to say that.
Thank you Meat

chairboys
11 Sep 2016, 13:54
Ps the bonus tracks are superb and actually compliment the album and really really didn't think I'd say that!!!

Adje
11 Sep 2016, 14:00
Ps the bonus tracks are superb and actually compliment the album and really really didn't think I'd say that!!!

LOL this shows how differently people can think about something.

Glad you like it ;)

CarylB
11 Sep 2016, 14:08
You're gonna get so much hate but you make good points.

None so far, even though it was delivered in a way that denigrated the views of those who love the album, and frankly the points were made in a dismissive rather than well argued way.

It's that person's view, fine. But no need to express it in some kind of blistering attack on those who find depth and great joy in it ..

Sue K
11 Sep 2016, 14:21
and most of you slay BAT 3 which is a decent piece of work. Well... This is only after Meat said he hated it.

For the record, I loved Bat3 when it first came out and I love it still despite the fact Meat does not.

I'm looking forward to the new album.

Sue K

ThatWriterGuy
11 Sep 2016, 14:28
I was thinking specifically of when Bowie released Where Are We Now? in 2013 after a 10-year-long absence. I remember at the time YouTube comments were saying stuff like 'He sounds old and ill', 'His voice has lost power' etc.

In that case -- crossed purposes! I never use social media (except for this site), and Youtube comments are completely lost on me for the most part. Whatever was said on there, it definitely doesn't echo the majority opinion, though. I haven't heard any accusations of Bowie's vocal performance outside the confines of the Internet. But I get where you were coming from all the same :cool:

ashkent7
11 Sep 2016, 14:32
For me, there are lots of valid points from both sides if everyone remembers that opinions are right in the eyes of the person saying them. Wario is in love with Masculine...it's an ok song to me,and i was about 5 when my dad used to play Bad Attitude and Blind Before I stop in the car, so the repetition made me like those songs but I don't love a lot of them. My opinion. Right to me. Wrong to others.

My opinion - which i will keep short (but that's short in my opinion which is not really short at all) - is that this album instantly hit me. Very few albums by anyone does that. Neighborhood took months to grow on me when it came out, HCTB still hasn't quite, HIAH I wouldn't lose sleep if someone said you can't hear it every again. I can't even name all the songs from it and that really isn't me. That's because TO ME, there isn't a story, there isn't a connection. I can run through the name of all the Braver songs in order...after 4 years i can't tell you the order of HIAH...I know All of Me kicks it off and Blue Sky ends it and i could probably pull all the others out with a bit of thought, but I don't need to do that with any other album of Meat's, the songs are just there.

So that's one reason I like it so much and why I place it as an equal to Bat and Bat 2. I look forward to the next time i hear it. When i first heard Going All The Way, that opening line did make me go "oh" just because it sounded very different. I felt the same about Springsteen's Magic album as his voice is different, higher pitched a little and it didn't sound like him at first listen - over time it goes from that to "of course its him,listen properly to it". However, I've thought the same at the beginning of all but one of the last four Meat concerts I've been too. A couple of songs in though and the feeling goes and the ride begins. Now, I don't even notice the things i did in the opening of Going All The Way. It has just become part of the song.

No new Jim songs? Not sure why that even needs mentioning. Jim has been writing, despite his health at times, but as far as this album goes, although there are versions of many of these songs, they are not these exact versions. Demos are demos. Recycling? Is it recycling, or it is a linking of work that most songwriters are incapable of? If you put all of Steinman's work together...again in this thing called an opinion i apparently have that others don't need to agree or disagree with...you have a tapestry of songs all threaded together in the way an Overture weaves together the melodies that you will hear through the rest of the musical. Jim has always written for his own personal Neverland, and that is where these songs live. Without the internet, probably none but a very small few would have heard any of these. With the internet, only those who follow Jim know them - my dad is a life long Meat fan, but he has never heard any of these other than Loving Yous a Dirty Job. Again, back with the Springsteen connection already mentioned, I have over a thousand bootlegged concerts and all of the outtake bootlegs, but I still look forward to having the properly mastered versions when his box sets are released. And the most important part of the "not new" comments...have you actually listened to Bat 2? Rock and Roll Dreams, Frying Pan, Wasted Youth (Love and Death) and Lost Boys all from Bad For Good; Good Girls, It Just Won't Quit from Pandora's Box; Everything Louder is essentially the riff from Nowhere Fast. So only three brand new songs even back then (discounting Back Into Hell which is really a combination of riffs from a handful of the songs), yet i don't remember many people making as much of a thing of it as here.

What i take from this album constitutes the following.

1) Meat wanted people to love it or hate it, and by the even split of 1 and 5 star reviews on Amazon he got that reaction pretty much spot on, which to me means he also knew exactly how this album was going to go down. Which in turn means that Meat knows everything he needed to to release an album exactly like this.

2) Jim got an album that he never thought he would, and after Bat 3 I feel he needed that. Jim is not conventional. Jim is not standard. Jim is not industry approved. All that can be said about this album. If you listen to any of the vocals Jim has done on his own album and demos, they have the same blatant disregard for popular style in favour of random growls and strained notes. Add in the aged aspect of Meat and you have the vocal result of Braver.

3) I love this album. Love it more than most of Meat's previous albums. I don't expect everyone to but similarly, i don't feel sorry for those who don't like it. I just say come back in a couple of days and have another listen. Then try a few weeks later, you never know what might happen. Unless you were one of those who fell of their bike and just threw it away...or failed your driving test once and never took it again. I don't feel compelled to skip any song and when it gets to the end, i just want to start he journey over again. I have literally had Meat and Jim's work in my life since i was born. I wouldn't have had it any other way, and I personally would not change how it has ended. It's been a 40 year odyssey, and I've been on board for 34 years of that. It has shaped my musical tastes, occasionally my outlook on life and always the belief that no matter who or how many try to tell you something won't work and you just need to give up, if you believe in what you do enough,people will eventually follow. Think of that as you go into the last six minutes of Going All The Way, think of what the world is losing as the circle closes, and just thank some god that these two ever came together and brought us the most honest, unique and eternal musical saga that there will ever be.

But then again...that's just my opinion of course. :lol:

ThatWriterGuy
11 Sep 2016, 14:42
Recycling? Is it recycling, or it is a linking of work that most songwriters are incapable of? If you put all of Steinman's work together...you have a tapestry of songs all threaded together in the way an Overture weaves together the melodies that you will hear through the rest of the musical.

Finally, someone said it. I've been waiting and waiting, because I didn't want it to just come from me (for obvious reasons)! :cool:

babyblue558
11 Sep 2016, 14:43
For me, there are lots of valid points from both sides if everyone remembers that opinions are right in the eyes of the person saying them. Wario is in love with Masculine...it's an ok song to me,and i was about 5 when my dad used to play Bad Attitude and Blind Before I stop in the car, so the repetition made me like those songs but I don't love a lot of them. My opinion. Right to me. Wrong to others.

My opinion - which i will keep short (but that's short in my opinion which is not really short at all) - is that this album instantly hit me. Very few albums by anyone does that. Neighborhood took months to grow on me when it came out, HCTB still hasn't quite, HIAH I wouldn't lose sleep if someone said you can't hear it every again. I can't even name all the songs from it and that really isn't me. That's because TO ME, there isn't a story, there isn't a connection. I can run through the name of all the Braver songs in order...after 4 years i can't tell you the order of HIAH...I know All of Me kicks it off and Blue Sky ends it and i could probably pull all the others out with a bit of thought, but I don't need to do that with any other album of Meat's, the songs are just there.

So that's one reason I like it so much and why I place it as an equal to Bat and Bat 2. I look forward to the next time i hear it. When i first heard Going All The Way, that opening line did make me go "oh" just because it sounded very different. I felt the same about Springsteen's Magic album as his voice is different, higher pitched a little and it didn't sound like him at first listen - over time it goes from that to "of course its him,listen properly to it". However, I've thought the same at the beginning of all but one of the last four Meat concerts I've been too. A couple of songs in though and the feeling goes and the ride begins. Now, I don't even notice the things i did in the opening of Going All The Way. It has just become part of the song.

No new Jim songs? Not sure why that even needs mentioning. Jim has been writing, despite his health at times, but as far as this album goes, although there are versions of many of these songs, they are not these exact versions. Demos are demos. Recycling? Is it recycling, or it is a linking of work that most songwriters are incapable of? If you put all of Steinman's work together...again in this thing called an opinion i apparently have that others don't need to agree or disagree with...you have a tapestry of songs all threaded together in the way an Overture weaves together the melodies that you will hear through the rest of the musical. Jim has always written for his own personal Neverland, and that is where these songs live. Without the internet, probably none but a very small few would have heard any of these. With the internet, only those who follow Jim know them - my dad is a life long Meat fan, but he has never heard any of these other than Loving Yous a Dirty Job. Again, back with the Springsteen connection already mentioned, I have over a thousand bootlegged concerts and all of the outtake bootlegs, but I still look forward to having the properly mastered versions when his box sets are released. And the most important part of the "not new" comments...have you actually listened to Bat 2? Rock and Roll Dreams, Frying Pan, Wasted Youth (Love and Death) and Lost Boys all from Bad For Good; Good Girls, It Just Won't Quit from Pandora's Box; Everything Louder is essentially the riff from Nowhere Fast. So only three brand new songs even back then (discounting Back Into Hell which is really a combination of riffs from a handful of the songs), yet i don't remember many people making as much of a thing of it as here.

What i take from this album constitutes the following.

1) Meat wanted people to love it or hate it, and by the even split of 1 and 5 star reviews on Amazon he got that reaction pretty much spot on, which to me means he also knew exactly how this album was going to go down. Which in turn means that Meat knows everything he needed to to release an album exactly like this.

2) Jim got an album that he never thought he would, and after Bat 3 I feel he needed that. Jim is not conventional. Jim is not standard. Jim is not industry approved. All that can be said about this album. If you listen to any of the vocals Jim has done on his own album and demos, they have the same blatant disregard for popular style in favour of random growls and strained notes. Add in the aged aspect of Meat and you have the vocal result of Braver.

3) I love this album. Love it more than most of Meat's previous albums. I don't expect everyone to. I don't feel compelled to skip any song and when it gets to the end, i just want to start he journey over again. I have literally had Meat and Jim's work in my life since i was born. I wouldn't have had it any other way, and I personally would not change how it has ended. It's been a 40 year odyssey, and I've been on board for 34 years of that. It has shaped my musical tastes, occasionally my outlook on life and always the belief that no matter who or how many try to tell you something won't work and you just need to give up, if you believe in what you do enough,people will eventually follow. Think of that as you go into the last six minutes of Going All The Way, think of what the world is losing as the circle closes, and just thank some god that these two ever came together and brought us the most honest, unique and eternal musical saga that there will ever be.

But then again...that's just my opinion of course. :lol:

Good point that Jim has ALWAYS 'recycled' material (if that's how you want to term it). His entire output is full of callbacks, in-jokes and samples of his own material. All songs on Braver are radically different from their ancestors. I don't have a problem with this way of making an album it but some people evidently do. Genuine question: was there any criticism of Jim 'recycling' material when Bat 2 came out? Because as far as I know 90% of that album was inspired by or adapted from previous project of Jim's. A good song is a good song, regardless of if it's a cover or an adaptation of a previously unrecorded demo. The same goes for bad songs.

rockfenris2005
11 Sep 2016, 15:01
My opinion - which i will keep short (but that's short in my opinion which is not really short at all) - is that this album instantly hit me. Very few albums by anyone does that. Neighborhood took months to grow on me when it came out, HCTB still hasn't quite, HIAH I wouldn't lose sleep if someone said you can't hear it every again. I can't even name all the songs from it and that really isn't me. That's because TO ME, there isn't a story, there isn't a connection. I can run through the name of all the Braver songs in order...after 4 years i can't tell you the order of HIAH...I know All of Me kicks it off and Blue Sky ends it and i could probably pull all the others out with a bit of thought, but I don't need to do that with any other album of Meat's, the songs are just there.

Fascinating, because this is how I feel about HCTB. I only heard it all the way thru again though for the second time the other night. The ONLY time that's ever happened with a ML album. But half of the songs I'd heard more than that. It's great though. But give me a platform, and I will rant and rave about HANDBASKET until I'm purple in the face, with tears streaming? Oh believe me, I can rant and rave about this album like crazy. RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!! style. GOD I LOVE HANDBASKET!!!!!!

CarylB
11 Sep 2016, 15:28
I love this album. Love it more than most of Meat's previous albums. I don't expect everyone to but similarly, i don't feel sorry for those who don't like it. I just say come back in a couple of days and have another listen. Then try a few weeks later, you never know what might happen. Unless you were one of those who fell of their bike and just threw it away...or failed your driving test once and never took it again. I don't feel compelled to skip any song and when it gets to the end, i just want to start the journey over again. I have literally had Meat and Jim's work in my life since i was born. I wouldn't have had it any other way, and I personally would not change how it has ended. It's been a 40 year odyssey, and I've been on board for 34 years of that. It has shaped my musical tastes, occasionally my outlook on life and always the belief that no matter who or how many try to tell you something won't work and you just need to give up, if you believe in what you do enough,people will eventually follow. Think of that as you go into the last six minutes of Going All The Way, think of what the world is losing as the circle closes, and just thank some god that these two ever came together and brought us the most honest, unique and eternal musical saga that there will ever be.

This, particularly the highlighted lines :-) Although, contemporary with Meat, I cannot claim to have had it in my life since I was born, but certainly since 1978. (And like Ryan, I love HIAH, and for me, along with HCTB, I have always loved Bat 3 and continue to do so.) But like you, Braver instantly grabbed my heart, and to me is an epic, breaking the mould, amazing way to end the saga by challenging any expectations .. just as they did in 1978! ;)

babyblue558
11 Sep 2016, 15:31
Fascinating, because this is how I feel about HCTB. I only heard it all the way thru again though for the second time the other night. The ONLY time that's ever happened with a ML album. But half of the songs I'd heard more than that. It's great though. But give me a platform, and I will rant and rave about HANDBASKET until I'm purple in the face, with tears streaming? Oh believe me, I can rant and rave about this album like crazy. RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!! style. GOD I LOVE HANDBASKET!!!!!!

Interesting how there is no Meat album that is universally disliked by his fans. Perhaps Midnight comes closest... nothing on that album grabs me at least. But that's coming from someone who thinks Elvis in Vegas is his best song, so what do I know? :lol:

ashkent7
11 Sep 2016, 15:50
Interesting how there is no Meat album that is universally disliked by his fans. Perhaps Midnight comes closest... nothing on that album grabs me at least. But that's coming from someone who thinks Elvis in Vegas is his best song, so what do I know? :lol:

Midnight does seem to be the one that gets the most putdowns...although i like Razor's Edge...I also like the beginning of Keep Driving...actually come to think of it I don't mind most of the songs, or at least parts of them. I think it was an album that could have been very different if produced in another time and it is more an album of missed chances in many ways. Songs that start with potential but then fall flat (Keep Driving I think is really good on the verses but let down by a nil point chorus).

But yes, every album definitely has its strong supporters.

ashkent7
11 Sep 2016, 15:53
Finally, someone said it. I've been waiting and waiting, because I didn't want it to just come from me (for obvious reasons)! :cool:

It's always been that way for me...I actually look forward to finding the connections in anything new released based on Jim's songs because even old songs done in a different way have new connections where it is a couple of words or a three chord sequence.

It's it's the music equivalent of a movie easter egg. :-)

ricgough
11 Sep 2016, 16:11
Yeah, Jims been lazy in the last 10 years, recovering from a stroke, learning to speak, play and walk again, writing 2 musicals and the new bits to braver which make it cohesive.
And some here complain theres nothing new because they've had the privilege to have heard some of the demo's before?
Jeez.
The idea that this is somehow a thrown together cast off album is completely ridiculous - meat declared intent to do "who needs the young" 15 years ago - though I do feel he had to do it at a point in his career where he felt he could afford to take the risk....
Not exactly a track for the major label AOR guys now is it?

ThatWriterGuy
11 Sep 2016, 16:13
Yeah, Jims been lazy in the last 10 years, recovering from a stroke, learning to speak, play and walk again, writing 2 musicals and the new bits to braver which make it cohesive.
And some here complain theres nothing new because they've had the privilege to have heard some of the demo's before?
Jeez.

Again, I didn't want to be the one to say it -- but you're bang on for the most part.

ricgough
11 Sep 2016, 16:26
If you had previously seen the dream engine or heard BFG and Pandoras box you could level the same accusation at bat 1 and 2.
Is Nutz still happening btw?

ThatWriterGuy
11 Sep 2016, 16:35
Last thing I heard was ... almost a year ago, and Jim said that they were deep within the middle of it (though Bat has taken up all of his time this past year).

ricgough
11 Sep 2016, 16:42
Good to hear. Don't think people realise the time these things take or the complexity of the processes involved sometimes.

rockfenris2005
11 Sep 2016, 16:42
Personally, BAT 2 still feels "new" to me, after about 400 listens (at least?) in my life. So I guess I don't mind the old stuff being done again.

nikox1
11 Sep 2016, 22:11
Braver out of stock in tesco now,, people must like it

FurryPhilosifer
11 Sep 2016, 22:17
I'm a fan of the album. Honestly, Meat's vocals are one of my favourite things about the album. I've seen a lot of people hating on them, but I think his vocals on this album are some of the most passionate he's ever done.

My least favourite thing about the album... is the production. At times it just sounds really tinny, like the sound is being recorded on a walkman phone, playing on a gameboy speaker. I think this is most noticeable in the "orchestra fanfares" around the start of Going All The Way. It's odd, because this annoying quirk isn't always present. I think Speaking in Tongues sounds great. A lot of the instrumentation sounds a bit more "metally" than I'd like. Particularly the drums. I liked Paul's production on HIAH, so I'm not sure what's going on here.

I also really love the way the songs from Only When I feel, to Skull of Your Country, all fade and segue into each other. With most of them being on the shorter side, I think it sounds great. Anyway onto the individual songs.

Who Needs The Young: I love love love it. I was a big fan of Jim's demo and I was really looking forward to hearing this, and I think it's great. Meat's vocals could have a little more prominence in the mix I think, but it's a great track none the less.

Going All The Way: This one grew on me a bit, with all the sudden changes in it. I was really looking forward to hearing this full version compared to the single. The section where Meat does a solo vocal on the chorus gave me MASSIVE goosebumps. I can't remember the last time a song made me feel like that chorus did. Really really great song. Production's a bit weird at times, as I already said. Also what's with the grunty "say a prayer..." backing vocal near the end? That little line sounds like an outtake from a Slipknot song.

Speaking in Tongues: I love this song. If any song on this album could be slotted into a Jim-produced album and fit perfectly, I think it would be this one. I wish Meat's vocals weren't so drowned out though.

Loving You's a Dirty Job: This one had to grow on me a little, I thought it sounded a bit disjointed. But once I got used to the way the song went, I love it. I'm not a fan of the female vocalists Meat tends to go for though. I think they always sound a bit teenager-y. I prefer massive 80s style power female vocals. But this is a great track.

Souvenirs: Good song. I was a bit worried about it sounding similar to Left in the Dark, but I think it has its own identity. I love the lyrics. The sax is, as Dolly Parton would say, very saxy. I think the production on it, again, sounds a bit funneled and tinny.

Only When I Feel: This is the song I see most people citing as Meat's vocals not working, but I like this. It's nice to have a short Steinman song somewhere in Meat's library. Not too much to say about it though, with it being so short.

More: This is the one that took longest to grow on me, and it's still definitely in my bottom two of the album's songs. It's alright. Not bad at all, it's just not doing a whole lot for me.

Godz: I love this. I hadn't listened to Bolero that much at all, so this didn't weird me out like it did some people. But anyway I love it.

Skull of Your Country: I hadn't heard the original, so seeing people disappointed with the changes in this didn't hit me. I like it. I love the drums in the Total Eclipse section.

Train of Love: Yawn. Least favourite song on the album. I think I'd like it a lot more, but the production is really noisy, and I struggle to hear anything other than just a block of sound. It's alright, maybe it'll grow on me some more, but meh.

Also this is my first ever post here after lurking for a few weeks :cool:

Benny
11 Sep 2016, 22:25
For me... It's a masterpiece ... Simple as that!

stretch37
11 Sep 2016, 22:26
I think his vocals on this album are some of the most passionate he's ever done.


Agreed! Which is why I have said in my Amazon.co.uk review that this record displays Meat in his artistic prime.

Artistic prime - as in Meat is in the peak of his artistic career right now.

No, I didn't say peak voice, peak physical movement speed, or peak song lyrics. I said Meat's artisticness. It's at it's peak. And it is. Meat Loaf as a person is at his peak as an artist, and I think we can look forward to many wonderful creations by him as an actor.

nikox1
11 Sep 2016, 22:28
Well said Matt, even with all the hissing noises ( rolling my eyes ).
The description is in the title - one Brave record

duke knooby
11 Sep 2016, 22:29
My least favourite thing about the album... is the production. At times it just sounds really tinny, like the sound is being recorded on a walkman phone, playing on a gameboy speaker.



that's what annoyed me, sound seemed as flat as a pancake, I really am starting to think i've got a dodgy pressing of the cd

ricgough
11 Sep 2016, 22:56
that's what annoyed me, sound seemed as flat as a pancake, I really am starting to think i've got a dodgy pressing of the cd

To me this sounds as sharp and rich as anything - way better than handbasket. I do tend to invest in good phones though. Had it bluetoothed to a cheap speaker at first listen though and it seemed not to handle a lot of the higher frequency stuff - completely missed the piano bridge in gatw until I got it onto some decent phones.

AndrewG
11 Sep 2016, 23:00
First time I listened to GATW it was through Sennheiser Momentum headphones. Think the production and sound are astonishingly good. :shrug:

ThatWriterGuy
11 Sep 2016, 23:01
There were (and are) some very badly mastered digital copies out there of what is, otherwise, a great sounding album! They do sound quite flat and they drain all the top end from Meat's voice. Can't comment on the CD, but the vinyl sounds fantastic!

ricgough
11 Sep 2016, 23:09
There were (and are) some very badly mastered digital copies out there of what is, otherwise, a great sounding album! They do sound quite flat and they drain all the top end from Meat's voice. Can't comment on the CD, but the vinyl sounds fantastic!

Mines a download. Picking up a cd when I see it in a store somewhere next week. Just had to have it as soon after midnight Thursday as possible.

duke knooby
11 Sep 2016, 23:09
my first listen was done through my usual set up,(old gear that sounds ok to me). i popped the cd into the car today to see if i'm losing the plot, and it was genuinely frustrating.

perhaps tesco, we have a problem

infact, i'm pretty sure the 2 songs on spotify sound better streamed on my laptop than on my cd

ricgough
11 Sep 2016, 23:10
This might be the problem then.

I guess some of the pressings could have been done before the mastering issue was rectified?

ricgough
11 Sep 2016, 23:14
First time I listened to GATW it was through Sennheiser Momentum headphones. Think the production and sound are astonishingly good. :shrug:

Mine are kitsound ribbons so not particularly high end. Not the cheap ones you get with your phone either though. With you on the production being astonishingly good. I'm certainly getting no hiss, though my AFL is just piano and vocal - a real demonstration of Meats stunning vocal ability around the early 90's and depends on pure silence in the right places to make it work. Wario should love it!

No way Jim would have raved about it it the production was flat - especially considering Jim really isn't afraid to call it out if he's not happy, regardless of the consequences!

Thoughtships
12 Sep 2016, 13:46
Mine are kitsound ribbons so not particularly high end. Not the cheap ones you get with your phone either though. With you on the production being astonishingly good. I'm certainly getting no hiss, though my AFL is just piano and vocal - a real demonstration of Meats stunning vocal ability around the early 90's and depends on pure silence in the right places to make it work. Wario should love it!

No way Jim would have raved about it it the production was flat - especially considering Jim really isn't afraid to call it out if he's not happy, regardless of the consequences!

I absolutely LOVE the album. But I feel like the mix/master makes the music sound distant compared to really loud vocals. I've got a good system. I bought the "Bonus Edition" with 3 bonus tracks, made in EU. Like I said, I love the album, but I'm starting to wonder if there is a dodgy master on a batch or two, like those above have said. I would describe it as distant, compressed music, loud vocals with lots of sibilance, hardly any cymbals... If anyone finds out anything on this subject, please post here, as I'd like to know if my CD is correct... Thanks all.
And Fireball, if you're reading, I adore the darn thing. Just querying the CD pressing.

PJ_Willow
12 Sep 2016, 15:00
Ok so.. Yeah I got carried away and my previous post should not have been as insulting but I am genuinely surprised at the amount of people enjoying this album. I know a few Meat Loaf fans, some only like BAT 1, 2 and WTTN, some like CHSIB and HCTB and then I know people like myself on here who like all of it, even the 80's stuff - all just to varying degrees.

Every album has its own style and I actually like that they are so different, it means I can listen to Meat when I'm actually in the moods. Musically and lyrically they vary but the constant is the voice, it's always been amazing.

I get that the whole point of this album is that its a struggle, a sort of heroic effort against the odds and what is normally accepted. But this is music, and fundamentally it should be a pleasure to listen to. A change in voice is ok, but it has to remain pleasurable to listen to. Personally I don't this pleasurable. Would we want more artists to produce this kind of album when their voice is frail?

I'm not overly bothered about the "recycling" of tracks, if the quality is there people don't care. We know BAT 2 had them but before now nobody mentioned it.

But this discussion is going around in circles but it should be not noted on this forum we have probably the most hardcore Meat & Jim fans anywhere. I can't imagine a wider audience enjoying this. The more interesting question for me is why this didn't happen at any point since BAT 2. Why wait till now. Essentially, the question is whether or not an artist should retire at the top of (or near as) their game.

ThatWriterGuy
12 Sep 2016, 15:11
I can't imagine a wider audience enjoying this.

Sold out on Amazon, Tesco, HMV, and Fopp. In all formats. That should answer that question for you.

Essentially, the question is whether or not an artist should retire at the top of (or near as) their game.

No artist can predict when they're 'on top of their game'. It's easy to look back in hindsight from an external perspective and say that (and don't think I can't see what you're doing here), but this is how it happened, in reality, outside of hypotheticals. Maybe you'd have preferred Meat to retire after Bat 2? After Bat??

This review thread isn't the place to discuss that.

robgomm
12 Sep 2016, 15:13
I can't imagine a wider audience enjoying this.

And yet after hearing the singles over the last month the album has sold out in Tescos, Amazon, sold out Vinyl on HMV, and is riding high on iTunes. I'm not sure how you would define that as a wider audience not enjoying it.

You can go ahead and say these are all Meat fans already but that can't be true as you can pretty much guarantee we will all buy a copy of every album and always have done, yet it's selling better than Meats last 2 albums already, so it IS reaching a slightly wider audience than previous albums and people ARE enjoying it. I'm just pointing out the evidence to you.

robgomm
12 Sep 2016, 15:14
Sold out on Amazon, Tesco, HMV, and Fopp. In all formats. That should answer that question for you.


Snap! Lol

ashkent7
12 Sep 2016, 15:15
The more interesting question for me is why this didn't happen at any point since BAT 2. Why wait till now.

Well, technically it did almost with Bat 3, but sometimes the world chooses to play games.

And all I can say regarding whether we want more people make something like this is do we want more people making thrash metal screamer rock that has no musicality about it at all (with the odd exception)? Do we want more Beiber clones that are having their little boy parts put together as we speak? Given the choice between that and a bunch of songs that defy categorisation sung by a bloke with an old growly voice, then yes - every day of the week. :D

I love Tom Waits - Meat's cover of Martha led me there 20 years ago - but no one would ever accuse him of being able to "sing". He is an artist who does his own bizarre thing. This album does something similar.

AndrewG
12 Sep 2016, 15:22
I wrote a whole response to PJ Willow but decided to delete it all as all that stuff is well beyond the Braver review thread.
:roll:

Just know others like the album or certain parts of it and you'll have to live with that and move on.

No need to piss on someone else's parade just because you don't like something.

babyblue558
12 Sep 2016, 16:33
I love Tom Waits - Meat's cover of Martha led me there 20 years ago - but no one would ever accuse him of being able to "sing". He is an artist who does his own bizarre thing. This album does something similar.

I almost brought up Tom Waits earlier and I too discovered him when I heard that (underrated) cover of Martha... God I love that song. Although Martha came from his first, more conventional album, Tom has since built a whole career around singing like a cigarette-stained, whisky-drinking bum... and it sounds brilliant.

I regard Braver in much the same way as a Tom Waits record: I don't put it on because I want to hear nice singing, I put it on because I like the sense of faded grandeur and bitter determination you get from the down-but-not-quite-out voice.

I suppose the difference between the two men is that Tom has sung like that ever since the 80s and I suspect it is at least partly an act, whereas Meat has only recently departed from his 'classic' operatic style which was more-or-less still present in many songs on HCTB and certainly all of Bat 3.

ThatWriterGuy
12 Sep 2016, 18:18
People have mentioned the production on this album (myself included, somewhere around here). And some people have 'slated' it as being 'similar to HIAHB'.

It really isn't -- not by a long stretch.

If you listen to this album via a decent medium (i.e. not a streaming 192kb digital version), through some half decent equipment, it's incredibly solid -- easily the best production since Bat III. And, no, it doesn't sound like a Bat record. No one has X million to spend on a production like that anymore (well, except for musicals, of course, but that's something else), and that's also why you won't see an AFL style music video (which was really a 'mini movie', let's be honest).

If you're still listening to those leaked early versions or you only heard the streaming 'single' -- do yourself a favour, and try another medium. Those digital rips were pretty terrible (all of Meat's high end was gone, and the girls sounded ancient and 'dry' -- the drums were so small and 'tinny', too).

This, thankfully, isn't the case, and the production is excellent! I'm a vinyl guy -- sound quality matters -- trust me :cool:

Danny L
12 Sep 2016, 18:29
I'm looking forward to seeing how BTWA did in the charts!

nikox1
12 Sep 2016, 18:39
I'm looking forward to seeing how BTWA did in the charts!

3 in midweek chart

ashkent7
12 Sep 2016, 19:38
I almost brought up Tom Waits earlier and I too discovered him when I heard that (underrated) cover of Martha... God I love that song. Although Martha came from his first, more conventional album, Tom has since built a whole career around singing like a cigarette-stained, whisky-drinking bum... and it sounds brilliant.

I saw Dylan about 6 or 7 years ago when we won a pair of tickets. Didn't understand a word he sang all night even on the likes of Like A Rolling Stone, but his band was excellent and for a bloke of his age to standing there performing I really wasn't going to knock him. It made me find some of his albums and I love him as a singer.

I feel Braver could well have some kind of similar effect. Yes there will be those who dismiss it straight away for whatever reason. But let's say it this way - my mam heard the album when my dad had it on. She commented "by he sounds a bit rough on some bits, but he's giving it a canny go". She's almost 60 years old. I'm 34 and I've made it plain how much i love it - even when I said More was probably the one track that I would say appeals less than the others although now a couple of days later and i've changed my mind, it's up there with the rest of them. My sister is 25 and has listened to a few songs of Meat's before, she said "It's pretty much how i would expect him to sound at his age. He still does good songs". My daughters are 5 and 2. The 5 year old has frequently played Going all The Way, Train of Love and Godz (the latter with her miming in a flamboyant opera style lol), and the little one seems mesmerised whenever they are on.

That's three generations, four very different age groups from one diehard fan to take it or leave it listeners and children who haven't had time to work out their musical tastes yet...and they have all found something in those songs on that album.

So to get back to the point i was going to make, there's nothing to say that some people who pick this up, this amazingly covered album by this old man called Meat Loaf, who despite his frailty and bark in his voice that are just part of what his voice has become and are used to their full emotional potential, this album that has (potentially) outsold most of the other albums it was up against on its week of release...who is to say they are not going to say "So why is he so well liked?". Or if they read some of the one star reviews and read things like "...a sad end to a once great artist" or "...no longer the explosive powerhouse he used to be", who is to say they won't then think, "So what did he sing like before? And why is it such a big deal about all songs being by this Jim Steinman bloke." And who knows where thoughts like that will lead...and when they find it, the journey that has ended for most of us here now will only just be beginning for them. That is just another reason why this album will stand the test of time, and why - despite what at least one person thinks - this is forever.

glockenspiel
12 Sep 2016, 19:44
Tom Waits seems to have stopped caring what people think of him, a long time ago,, so that analogy will only stretch so far ,,,,,

ashkent7
12 Sep 2016, 19:55
Tom Waits seems to have stopped caring what people think of him, a long time ago,, so that analogy will only stretch so far ,,,,,

In a way though, that is the same for Meat. It's not that he doesn't care, he just doesn't feel any need to mould himself to make people like him.

"People are going to love it or hate it, and that's fine. You either love me or hate me and that's how it should go down."

I understand this perfectly. Meat knew exactly how people would react to this album, and he is comfortable with it, encourages it even. Some would call that not caring what people think...but i guess it is more caring that people feel something towards him and just not caring whether that feeling is positive or negative.

glockenspiel
12 Sep 2016, 19:57
Yeah. I think you're playing with words there .. It's not for the artist to dictate how people should respond to his work, in any case .. The work has a life of its own ...

AndrewG
12 Sep 2016, 20:00
You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time


In the end you have to move forward and just do whatever you want to do and whatever you think is right regardless of the consequences.
Some will like what you have done/what you have created. You can't let worry be in the way of creating art constantly.

Another favourite quote from Rocky Balboa:

Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!


I'm so happy Braver exists. GATW to me is one of the best recorded songs I've heard. Like a Hotel California, Like an Anything For Love, Like a Bat out of Hell!!! And there is sooo much more on that album to love.

Don't like it? Find something you love too. Do that and you can move forward too, be inspired and be happy and love...

lorenzoduke
12 Sep 2016, 21:22
Sold out on Amazon, Tesco, HMV, and Fopp. In all formats. That should answer that question for you.



No artist can predict when they're 'on top of their game'. It's easy to look back in hindsight from an external perspective and say that (and don't think I can't see what you're doing here), but this is how it happened, in reality, outside of hypotheticals. Maybe you'd have preferred Meat to retire after Bat 2? After Bat??

This review thread isn't the place to discuss that.

If I might add, an artist should retire when they want to retire. Their audience are free to stop buying or supporting at any given point in their career.

Thoughtships
13 Sep 2016, 07:53
If I might add, an artist should retire when they want to retire. Their audience are free to stop buying or supporting at any given point in their career.

I'd rather an artist never retire. They will have as much to say about growing older/old as they did about being young.
And even if the voice goes, so what, makes some albums like Tom Waits or Robert Wyatt.
No one's forcing anyone to listen. And I really don't see why an artist should retire purely so some of their fans can trap them forever in amber, a frozen statue of youth, just so it fits their world view.
Meat, make more albums! You've spent your whole life with a sod 'em attitude. Don't change now. That's how I feel. I love the new album. Heck, I love every album.
So as long as there's a ML album, I'll buy it.

ThatWriterGuy
13 Sep 2016, 11:55
Of the VERY FEW bad reviews I've read for this album, this next one wins the prize for both 'most amusing' (in a perverse kind of a way), and 'most overwhelmingly ironic' at the same time. I especially love the part where he misses the point of Who Needs The Young to such a disastrous extent that he actually berates it for being something that it ISN'T. Good job.

Where do they even get these 'journalists' from -- an English Lit A Level class?

See this 'literary gem' here:

http://www.beat.com.au/music/meat-loaf-braver-we-are

AndrewG
13 Sep 2016, 12:03
Of the VERY FEW bad reviews I've read for this album, this next one wins the prize for both 'most amusing' (in a perverse kind of a way), and 'most overwhelmingly ironic' at the same time. I especially love the part where he misses the point of Who Needs The Young to such a disastrous extent that he actually berates it for being something that it ISN'T. Good job.

Where do they even get these 'journalists' from -- an English Lit A Level class?

See this 'literary gem' here:

http://www.beat.com.au/music/meat-loaf-braver-we-are

More's industrial-esque guitar coughing fits are laughable and Loving You's A Dirty Job (But Somebody's Gotta Do It) force what sounds like toy keyboard presets....

Huh? :roll:
Doesn't sound like this guy likes music in general.

ThatWriterGuy
13 Sep 2016, 12:11
No, but he sure likes using his GCSE vocabulary book (I've 'downgraded' him - A Level was too 'generous').

Here's an amusing game if the mood takes you: take a drink every time one of his sentences actually doesn't mean what he thinks it means. I started five minutes ago and have already drank 3/4 of a bottle of Jim Beam.

robgomm
13 Sep 2016, 12:17
No, but he sure likes using his GCSE vocabulary book (I've 'downgraded' him - A Level was too 'generous').

Here's an amusing game if the mood takes you: take a drink every time one of his sentences actually doesn't mean what he thinks it means. I started five minutes ago and have already drank 3/4 of a bottle of Jim Beam.

Lol I Love reading your posts. Don't ever stop.

ashkent7
13 Sep 2016, 12:20
Of the VERY FEW bad reviews I've read for this album, this next one wins the prize for both 'most amusing' (in a perverse kind of a way), and 'most overwhelmingly ironic' at the same time. I especially love the part where he misses the point of Who Needs The Young to such a disastrous extent that he actually berates it for being something that it ISN'T. Good job.

Where do they even get these 'journalists' from -- an English Lit A Level class?

See this 'literary gem' here:

http://www.beat.com.au/music/meat-loaf-braver-we-are

Wow...just simply wow. I always wondered what would happen if someone watched 30 Countdown conundrum rounds on constant loop - I have an answer.

That second paragraph is so far beyond anything else that it makes the album look like standard pop fodder.

And kudos to a man who can write a report, and misspell the surname of one of the men listed in big letters on the album cover image posted above it. :doh:

loaferman61
13 Sep 2016, 14:13
That reviewer while entitled to his opinion, just totally missed the whole concept. But he got to use a lot of fancy words to make it more confusing to read.

I find that review trite, irrelevant, pompous, and totally misinformed. 0/10.

CarylB
13 Sep 2016, 14:21
Loves the sound of his own voice in his head :roll:

KarlV
13 Sep 2016, 15:17
When a reviewer doesn't even know how to spell Steinman, I think that says enough.

CarylB
13 Sep 2016, 16:24
I just realised ... the au in the url signifies Australia?

R.
13 Sep 2016, 16:37
I just realised ... the au in the url signifies Australia? Yep.

CarylB
13 Sep 2016, 17:26
Just two letters can convey and explain so much ;)

Meat Loaf_fan
14 Sep 2016, 15:47
Finally - I have my CD! :-)

Who Needs The Young
The opening track has good vocals, very good lyrics, but ... melody is quite weird. I think that piano only (or, possible - with guitar) would be better.

Going All The Way
This song is example of Jim Steinman genius. It is long, but isn't boring. In fact this is one of the best song on the album. Plus we have not only Meat, but also Ellen Folley and Karla DeVito.

Speaking In Tongues
Duet between Meat and Stacy. It is romantic ballad (not power ballad), but I like it nearly as "Two Out Of Three Ain't Bad" ... plus (I agree with Wario) it's in good place between two giants.

Loving You is A Dirty Job (But Somebody's Gotta Do It)
Another duet with Stacy Michelle ... and (in my opinion) one of the best duet in entire Meat's career. This song is, without a doubt, a masterpiece. Before I heard this version, I thought that Bonnie Tyler's was very good ... I think that it is true, but Meat's version is better.

Souvenirs
Very good lyrics with many meanings = very good song ... plus it has Dave Luther on saxophone.

Only When I Feel
The lyrics are great and vocals too. Maybe Meat's voice is not the best from all songs on this album, but (I think) it perfectly fits to the character which sings this song.

More
I don't know why, but this track reminds me of "Song Of Madness" (from HCTB) ... but anyway it's good, because I like both songs.

Godz
I like lyrics and vocals, but I have problems with melody ... anyway - it's good and solid position.

Skull of Our Country
Duet between Meat and Cian Coey. It is one of the (many) highlights of the album. I was very pleased when I heard it.

Train of Love
Very good song, but I'm not sure if it's in good place ... in other words - I'm not sure if it's the right ending of the whole album ... but I like it very much.



PS. My private ranking of Meat (solo) albums (there are differences between today and the past list):
1.Bat Out of Hell 2: Back Into Hell
2.Braver Than We Are
3.Hang Cool Teddy Bear
4.Welcome To The Neighborhood
5.Dead Ringer
6.Bat Out Of Hell
7.Couldn't Have Said It Better
8.Bat Out Of Hell 3: The Monster Is Loose
9.Hell In A Handbasket
10.Bad Attitude
11.Midnight At The Lost And Found
12.Blind Before I Stop

GDW
14 Sep 2016, 16:39
Just two letters can convey and explain so much ;)

Pretty poor form Caryl. Are you judging the people of one little country by two little letters?:!:

CarylB
14 Sep 2016, 18:07
Oh for heaven's sake .. all should know I'm referring to a small group of people in a very, very large country (admittedly with a modest population compared to another similar sized country the USA), who will never, ever get past the AFL event, still bring it up on his FB page, still bring it up whenever he is promoting anything .. Meat has many loyal and loving fans in Australia, and they know that this group bullied him mercilessly, as did their media, and find that group as lamentable as the rest of us. I have many friends here who are Australian and they will know I am judging a group we are all familiar with, not their country.

So yes, I think that those two letters speak volumes about something posted that was so terribly negative, and I think his Australian fans here would agree.

stretch37
14 Sep 2016, 18:31
Oh for heaven's sake .. all should know I'm referring to a small group of people in a very, very large country (admittedly with a modest population compared to another similar sized country the USA), who will never, ever get past the AFL event, still bring it up on his FB page, still bring it up whenever he is promoting anything .. Meat has many loyal and loving fans in Australia, and they know that this group bullied him mercilessly, as did their media, and find that group as lamentable as the rest of us. I have many friends here who are Australian and they will know I am judging a group we are all familiar with, not their country.

So yes, I think that those two letters speak volumes about something posted that was so terribly negative, and I think his Australian fans here would agree.

I completely understand your frustration with them. And while it may be a relatively small group, THEY'RE AS LOUD AS THIS TEXT.

All of the Braver Than We Are reviews I have seen so far from AU have been so derogatory, negative, and just latching onto Meat as this terrible kind of person that he's not...All because the news media over there, as well as popular culture, have all changed their view of Meat since the AFL fiasco.

And to be fair, I think Meat should have lip-synced most of that performance or dubbed it, like Wetten Das. I think he over-estimated his abilities at the expense of a lot of people, and $500,000. I think it was a mistake, but honestly, HONEST, it's OK - everybody makes mistakes. And it the Australians had any redeeming qualities, Meat would have tried to make it up to them already. But they don't. They're just beating a dead horse. SO of course Meat's never going to go back there. They're getting their Karma, sadly.

Everyone makes mistakes and in the end, it's how we all learn. To use a simple, dumb example to drive my point home, "Babies would never walk if they never made a mistake while trying to learn." When babies are trying to learn stuff, people think it's cute. But god forbid you are between the ages of 5-100, all of the sudden mistakes become such a negative thing. Imagine if we could all continue to give ourselves the freedom to learn and make mistakes like babies can? The Australian media would probably hang us for it.

No one should be faulted so much as Meat has been by the group-mob mentality that has happened in Australia. In my mind it shows me what kind of people this 'small group' are comprised of, and makes me rightfully angry and defensive for someone who I know cares deeply about the quality of his work.

CarylB
14 Sep 2016, 18:41
I completely understand your frustration with them. And while it may be a relatively small group, THEY'RE AS LOUD AS THIS TEXT.

And that's the issue

All of the Braver Than We Are reviews I have seen so far from AU have been so derogatory, negative, and just latching onto Meat as this terrible kind of person that he's not...All because the news media over there, as well as popular culture, have all changed their view of Meat since the AFL fiasco.

I think this is so sadly

They're just beating a dead horse. SO of course Meat's never going to go back there. They're getting their Karma, sadly.

Thee odds were stacked against him anyway, as this negative group started with those who are simply opposed to anyone not Australian pwerformng at the AFL, and difficulties beyond Meat's control just gave them fodder, and it simply grew from there. They actually had a hate FB page at one time. The sad thing is that this "Karma" impacts on all his loving fans there. Most of those involved in the bullying campaign probably weren't fans, or only very marginal ones. The group-mob mentality you referred to was not representative of the whole, just a small but vociferous part, and a xenophobic/nationalistic one at that in the main :(

lorenzoduke
14 Sep 2016, 21:21
It's no one's job to make people who are determined to hate them love them. If plenty of other people love them and find greatness in their work and passion, a healthy mind says 'f~~~ 'em'.

LuuuuvMeat
14 Sep 2016, 22:35
Love love love reading all your reviews. I'm waiting impatiently for the release date on Friday and it's killing me! I purchased from Meat's store the cd,t -shirt and poster. From Barnes and Noble the red vinyl. The cd & dvd from Amazon. I will buy on Friday the Target cd with extra tracks.

nikox1
15 Sep 2016, 00:14
Love love love reading all your reviews. I'm waiting impatiently for the release date on Friday and it's killing me! I purchased from Meat's store the cd,t -shirt and poster. From Barnes and Noble the red vinyl. The cd & dvd from Amazon. I will buy on Friday the Target cd with extra tracks.

I thought i bought alot lol
Well done :D

babyblue558
15 Sep 2016, 00:39
My physical copy only just arrived (nice one Tesco :roll:) so I've only just got to listen to the bonus tracks.

For What It's Worth - nice but nothing special. A little odd to have a cover of such an iconic song after an album of Jim's original material, it seems a little out of place. Would've been nice (and very appropriate) on Handbasket.

Prize Fight Lover - I can't get enough of this song. I definitely like it more than the HCTB version which always seemed a little pedestrian and too Bruce Springsteen-lite to me. There was nothing to make it stand out. I far prefer the new reworking. It rocks a lot harder and the more prominent guitar and the solo in the middle really gives it a bit of individual character and stops it from sounding like generic stadium rock. It's fast becoming one of my favorite tracks of the album.

AFL - lovely as ever but did we really need this? Imelda May does fantastically but somehow I don't think I'll ever be listening to this version over the original or the MSO live recording. Those are the two definitive versions and it just doesn't seem right without the guitar motorbike revs at the beginning. Also a run-of-the-mill 90s vocal doesn't excite me and if anything sounds like a really bizarre choice on this album where Meat's voice sounds nothing like it did more than 20 years ago. They could've at least plumped for a more recent 2003-present recording. God knows Meat sings this one every show whether he likes it or not so there must be one available.

So, a mixed bag. But really I'd forgive anything for that new PFL recording.

nikox1
15 Sep 2016, 22:01
BRAVER THAN WE ARE.

First thing that hits me, this is no rock record.
Its got its very own feel and energy to it, its a new thing.
I find the album very dark, but inbetween the despair are moments of great hope. Its very honest and open, nobody is hiding on this record, nobody is stuck in the background, its a real team effort. Everybody involved has made a great contribution to it. The production is very clever and brave and modern and old school all at the same time. And you can see a mile off that Jim was very much involved in this record, alot of detail in every song. Backing vocals and arrangements are stunning, and the girls all sing great on every song, fantastic.
Meats vocals are different indeed, but it works. Its a brave album, no safety nets, no precautions, just an open book and raw in feeling. But maybe the most REAL album Meats ever done. It stands alone and shines in my opinion.
Yes i can see why its not everyones cup of tea, i can see faults, i hear the odd dodgy vocal, but to me thats what makes it so real and honest. It's alive, its not manufactured.

WHO NEEDS THE YOUNG
After 40 years Meat has released hes most opinion splitting song ever lol
Its mad, plain and simple. But its fun and daring, its a real F€€K u song, and i think its a great opener. I dont think anybody knows really what to make of it.
Never will there be another Who Needs The Young.

GOING ALL THE WAY
Classic Steinman, big, long, overblown, and yes even more overblown.
The centre piece of the album, its a great song. Love the production.

SPEAKING IN TONGUES
Beautiful Ballad, so simple but yet complicated.
Some great heartfelt lyrics and vocals.

LOVING YOUS A DIRTY JOB
One of my favourite duets ever!! Its so slick and cool, but manages to maintain that old sound. Love the production and vocal arrangements.

SOUVENIRS
This song has grown so much on me, so catchy when it gets going.
And that saxophone ( love is in the air ). Stunning production and one of the better vocal performances.

ONLY WHEN I FEEL
Creepy and haunting, raw vocals. Should of been longer.

MORE
This was the one song that really caught me by surprise, its very well put together. Very clever song and catchy as hell.

GODZ
Makes me smile every time i hear it, feel like marching along to it.
Crunchy guitars, a song that shouldn't work but does.

SKULL OF YOUR COUNTRY
One of the most famous lines ever recorded- turn around bright eyes!!!
Well why not keep it, love the start and intro vocals, then it soars into the finale.

TRAIN OF LOVE
Didnt think i would be mad about this one, but hell its catchy, reall catchy.
Best Meat vocal on the album, shouldnt be the last song, but yet it's perfect!!

Not the most indept review, time against me lately.
This album is haunting, i really like it, yes there are some things i feel could of been better, but they are few and far between.

8.5/10

Batwings
16 Sep 2016, 08:08
Aussie here love the album...would probably lose the last 2 songs and OWIF other than that it's up there with my faves Bat 3 and Hang cool...I actually can't believe how good the trax on this are.

Batwings
16 Sep 2016, 08:14
And as a footnote 1st saw him in Adelaide 78' when I was 10 and he was so loud my little brother cried

stretch37
16 Sep 2016, 08:18
Seriously. hahah. These numbers are funny.

Split right up the middle.

http://media.mlxxfc.net/ana.JPG

CarylB
16 Sep 2016, 12:25
As Meat said it would be .. although to be honest I found a higher percentage of verified purchasers in the 5 star group than in the one star

brita
16 Sep 2016, 14:39
I’m sad. How is it possible, that a lot of people (maybe most of people) misunderstand this record.
They don't catch the essence of it. :(
Meat and Jim could accomplish this album only in their current ages. Young men couldn’t create it.
I don't want to analyze it track by track - because it’s a unit, - but Who Needs the Young? - the most contested song on the album.
It’s a genius, sarcastic self-ironic slap in the face. An answer to everyone who try to compare Meat in his 30s with him nowadays.:-D

stretch37
16 Sep 2016, 15:16
https://www.amazon.com/Braver-Than-Are-Meat-Loaf/dp/B01IXGCJM4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474035244&sr=8-1&keywords=braver+than+we+are+cd#customerReviews

Americans seem to get it so far :D 4.5/5 stars average out of 4 reviews!

This portion of one review explained things clearly and concisely:

It's still very much Meatloaf.

It's got Meatloaf's classic "I make the music sound my own unique way and I don't care" attitude.

Adje
16 Sep 2016, 15:47
Americans seem to get it so far :D 4.5/5 stars average out of 4 reviews!

This portion of one review explained things clearly and concisely:

So he 'gets it' but don't seem to know who the artist is? :-P ( I think he wrote with a hungry stomach)

stretch37
16 Sep 2016, 15:54
So he 'gets it' but don't seem to know who the artist is? :-P ( I think he wrote with a hungry stomach)

Bingo! :-P

stretch37
16 Sep 2016, 15:55
https://www.amazon.com/Braver-Than-Are-Meat-Loaf/dp/B01IXGCJM4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474035244&sr=8-1&keywords=braver+than+we+are+cd#customerReviews

Americans seem to get it so far :D 4.5/5 stars average out of 4 reviews!

This portion of one review explained things clearly and concisely:

OH god, did I jinx it? :evil:

anotherday
16 Sep 2016, 23:55
OH god, did I jinx it? :evil:

All the Amazon Prime freeloaders got a chance to listen to it -_-

CarylB
17 Sep 2016, 16:52
I’m sad. How is it possible, that a lot of people (maybe most of people) misunderstand this record.
They don't catch the essence of it. :(
Meat and Jim could accomplish this album only in their current ages. Young men couldn’t create it.
I don't want to analyze it track by track - because it’s a unit, - but Who Needs the Young? - the most contested song on the album.
It’s a genius, sarcastic self-ironic slap in the face. An answer to everyone who try to compare Meat in his 30s with him nowadays.:-D

Something else about Who Needs the Young .. which as you say does seem to be a very contested song.

But it struck me this morning just how necessary, how important this opening is to the album. To me the "recitative" style he uses in it is also pure genius .. simply, pure genius. It set me up to simply allow the whole to unfold before my eyes in one seamless musical pageant. I imagined myself in a darkened theatre I as pressed play for the first time, closed my eyes and waited for it to start .. before Who Needs the Young ended I was IN that theatre, could see those figures on a stage. And it was that opening song and the style Meat used that did that.

He's right imo .. they have created something as many layered and operatic as Motzart or Wagner, but in today's language and delivered in song throughout. It's a different room he has created and invited us to join him in .. and I LOVE this new and so utterly different room!!

Jeanie
17 Sep 2016, 20:17
I don't know if anyone else listens to an album for the first time like I do. I like to put the cd on, pick up the lyric book and go, no previous reading of the lyrics. So, WNTY starts and I'm thinking... Meat did say this was going to be a different album and at this point I'm thinking he's going for the full out operatic sounding album this time and then we get to this line..."Is there anyone left who can f**k?" and I just LoL and thought this maybe better then I had first thought! :D That line changed my whole attitude toward listening to the rest of the album.
All and all, I think it's a good album, and after saying that...even at this early stage, I could live without OWIF ( never was keen on it) and Godz, and unless they grow on me, I'll be skipping them in future. Also, SOMC is a bit distracting with those lines being sang the same as Total Eclipse Of The Heart. I'm not saying that I don't like that song because I do, just wish those lines had been changed or arranged differently. And I know, I know, before all you Steinman fans start, that Jim often recycles lyrics, it's just distracting is all I'm saying.
If I had to rate the album as a whole on this first impression, I'd give it a 8/10.

Vickip
17 Sep 2016, 21:36
I just got home from vacation, and I'm listening to it for the first time. When I close my eyes I really can see it as a big musical production on a stage, an absolute masterpiece :heart:
I just can't rate each song separately ... imo they all fit together so perfectly.
Wow, just wow.

Vickip
17 Sep 2016, 21:37
Something else about Who Needs the Young .. which as you say does seem to be a very contested song.

But it struck me this morning just how necessary, how important this opening is to the album. To me the "recitative" style he uses in it is also pure genius .. simply, pure genius. It set me up to simply allow the whole to unfold before my eyes in one seamless musical pageant. I imagined myself in a darkened theatre I as pressed play for the first time, closed my eyes and waited for it to start .. before Who Needs the Young ended I was IN that theatre, could see those figures on a stage. And it was that opening song and the style Meat used that did that.

He's right imo .. they have created something as many layered and operatic as Motzart or Wagner, but in today's language and delivered in song throughout. It's a different room he has created and invited us to join him in .. and I LOVE this new and so utterly different room!!

Yes, exactly !!

stretch37
17 Sep 2016, 21:43
I just got home from vacation, and I'm listening to it for the first time. When I close my eyes I really can see it as a big musical production on a stage, an absolute masterpiece :heart:
I just can't rate each song separately ... imo they all fit together so perfectly.
Wow, just wow.

I was waiting for your review Vicki, glad you liked it :D

stretch37
17 Sep 2016, 21:45
Something else about Who Needs the Young .. which as you say does seem to be a very contested song.

But it struck me this morning just how necessary, how important this opening is to the album. To me the "recitative" style he uses in it is also pure genius .. simply, pure genius. It set me up to simply allow the whole to unfold before my eyes in one seamless musical pageant. I imagined myself in a darkened theatre I as pressed play for the first time, closed my eyes and waited for it to start .. before Who Needs the Young ended I was IN that theatre, could see those figures on a stage. And it was that opening song and the style Meat used that did that.

He's right imo .. they have created something as many layered and operatic as Motzart or Wagner, but in today's language and delivered in song throughout. It's a different room he has created and invited us to join him in .. and I LOVE this new and so utterly different room!!

I enjoyed reading this, really well written Caryl :-) I really like the style of Who Needs The Young as well. I think it's perfect. Someone complained about his timing or his voice breaking on some parts, and I think every sound he made with intention on this entire record. It's Meat. That's what he does. If you don't like his intention, then you're free to not listen...

CarylB
17 Sep 2016, 22:05
I enjoyed reading this, really well written Caryl :-) I really like the style of Who Needs The Young as well. I think it's perfect. Someone complained about his timing or his voice breaking on some parts, and I think every sound he made with intention on this entire record. It's Meat. That's what he does. If you don't like his intention, then you're free to not listen...

Indeed it is .. and it may not appeal to some. But Meat's vision is always focused on what's on the other side of a door, and wanting to go through it. This time he takes us into a very different space, as challenging and at the same time beautiful as the lyrics. If listened to as a series of songs, there will be some that appeal, and some that don't; you can listen to them without stepping over the portal. But step through, allow your eyes to get accustomed to an entirely new light, and Braver is so much more.

Yes, every intonation is intentional and very carefully judged. It was only this morning I made a connection between his delivery of WHTY and what I hear so often in opera between the arias .. and it was, to me, a huge "aha" moment, and I thought how cleverly he led me into that world (and I don't think "genius" is too strong a word), in this case a world that they have created so different to those they have before. Now I can listen to and enjoy different arias in this mini opera, movements in his symphony .. but like those "Best of Motzart" offerings as opposed to the whole work, I prefer to listen to the whole piece, because each piece is perfectly judged, each makes the whole greater :-)

Sue K
17 Sep 2016, 23:15
I've listened once to the new album so far...intently ... reading the lyrics as I did ...

I wept through most of Who Needs The Young... with joy .... wow.. to me it sounds so theatrical ... combo of Rocky Horror.... Sweeney Todd .... Chicago... and another I can't think of now ... dark theater, y'know ? ....

and the second I kept hiccupping crying through was.... Going All The Way ... SO... I've cried through some... smiled through some... laughed through some... and ADORE IT... BRAVO !!! ...

Ma.Ra
18 Sep 2016, 01:13
I am not sure if we are all listening to the same album.

Yes, the critics regarding the style of the songs might not be justified, but I also think that Meat's voice is not what it is supposed to be, which is especially obvious with Steinman songs.

For me, Meat's voice sounds almost the same in every single song. For me, he is not singing with energy or melody; all songs are like "speak singing" or speaking.

You would hear the lack of power, emotion, and range in his voice particularly if you compare some of the songs with the Over The Top bootlegs/recording sung by Rob Evan.

- Braver Than We Are vs Going All The Is Just The Start
- Only When I Feel vs Only When I feel


For that Steinman and Meat finally got together again, why is there no "What Part of My Body Hurts The Most"? I don't see exactly the difference to Bat3, there are again only old Steinman songs recycled. Why can't no one from Steinman's side openly admit he won't write anything new anymore???
After 12 years, this gets pretty tiresome....

I am sad to say it, but the songs sound butchered, thanks to Meat's voice. Taking out Meat's voice make most songs better, still the why they were produced doesn't really appeal to me.

Meat's voice was declining already since HCTB, but even there the songs sounded better because Meat's voice was stronger and more emotional (i.e. Peace on Earth).
This album should have been Bat 3 10 years ago.

I am not sure if this blindness to accept the reality swapped over to Meat by his association with the GOP at some points in the past or if no one has the balls to tell him that he physically is no longer able to perform Steinman songs or if it is just pure arrogance.




I am only streaming the album from Google Play Music, and that will be it. This is the first Meat Loaf album I won't buy.

LuuuuvMeat
18 Sep 2016, 01:13
I just got home from vacation, and I'm listening to it for the first time. When I close my eyes I really can see it as a big musical production on a stage, an absolute masterpiece :heart:
I just can't rate each song separately ... imo they all fit together so perfectly.
Wow, just wow.



That is exactly what I thought. So much mental imagery.

duke knooby
18 Sep 2016, 01:27
You would hear the lack of power, emotion, and range in his voice particularly if you compare some of the songs with the Over The Top bootlegs/recording sung by Rob Evan.

- Braver Than We Are vs Going All The Is Just The Start
- Only When I Feel vs Only When I feel


.

i don't, rob's versions were boring and soulless to my ears, they might have been x factor perfect, but didn't interest me. much the same for tyce in that respect from the admittedly few i've heard in full on youtube. only lack of power and emotion i'm getting from this album are in the arrangements and production

Sue K
18 Sep 2016, 01:28
I am not sure if we are all listening to the same album.

Yes, the critics regarding the style of the songs might not be justified, but I also think that Meat's voice is not what it is supposed to be, which is especially obvious with Steinman songs.

For me, Meat's voice sounds almost the same in every single song. For me, he is not singing with energy or melody; all songs are like "speak singing" or speaking.

You would hear the lack of power, emotion, and range in his voice particularly if you compare some of the songs with the Over The Top bootlegs/recording sung by Rob Evan.

- Braver Than We Are vs Going All The Is Just The Start
- Only When I Feel vs Only When I feel


For that Steinman and Meat finally got together again, why is there no "What Part of My Body Hurts The Most"? I don't see exactly the difference to Bat3, there are again only old Steinman songs recycled. Why can't no one from Steinman's side openly admit he won't write anything new anymore???
After 12 years, this gets pretty tiresome....

I am sad to say it, but the songs sound butchered, thanks to Meat's voice. Taking out Meat's voice make most songs better, still the why they were produced doesn't really appeal to me.

Meat's voice was declining already since HCTB, but even there the songs sounded better because Meat's voice was stronger and more emotional (i.e. Peace on Earth).
This album should have been Bat 3 10 years ago.

I am not sure if this blindness to accept the reality swapped over to Meat by his association with the GOP at some points in the past or if no one has the balls to tell him that he physically is no longer able to perform Steinman songs or if it is just pure arrogance.




I am only streaming the album from Google Play Music, and that will be it. This is the first Meat Loaf album I won't buy.

I listened to the samples on Amazon and was concerned I would not be happy with the album. None of the clips grabbed me at all. After hearing it in its entirety I realize that samples did it no justice. I enjoyed the album beginning to end. I could feel Steinman's input, loved the sound of Meat's voice and hearing Carla and Ellen made me take a tumble back in time ...

I don't know what you're talking about when you mention GOP. I know what I like and I like this album. I know some won't like it and I accept that. However, there's a way to say you don't like the album without being negative towards Meat and the people that do like it and I feel you did not accomplish that in your post.

Ma.Ra
18 Sep 2016, 01:35
i don't, rob's versions were boring and soulless to my ears, they might have been x factor perfect, but didn't interest me. much the same for tyce in that respect from the admittedly few i've heard in full on youtube. only lack of power and emotion i'm getting from this album are in the arrangements and production

My reference is the Mohegan Sun Casino (sound board?) bootleg. I think that is better quality than the youtube videos where they recorded it for TV.

Thanks for your feedback!

Breeze
18 Sep 2016, 01:39
I just received my 10 song copy yesterday . I also had downloaded Souvenirs months earlier. I was a bit stunned when I heard it , it was just so not what I expected. I have heard the demo that is on you tube so I had some idea what the song sounded like. The male voice needed to be a lot louder and more angry an sarcastic .


I'd seen Meat interviewed and I think it was the AM show in UK where he went on and explained to his fans he was not seriously ill. I watched that and have to tell you, I cried like he was a family member . It really was painful.


I have listened to the CD one time through, and souvenirs several times. I was not crazy about " Who needs the young?" but had heard the demo on you tube , so knew what to expect. I really do not hate the song, it is just not one of my favorites anyway. Sure it is quirky and all but I wouldn't put it on repeat.


I enjoyed "Godz" and " Only when I feel" and "More' was not bad. It would have been excellent if Meats voice was stronger but still it was not bad at all.


"Going all the way" ( Braver) was ok but compared to the demo's already up it was somewhat pale, but not horrible.


" Speaking in tongues" is not a bad song and would have sounded better with stronger vocals, still not too bad.
"Loving you is a dirty job" was hard to listen to due to having heard the other version . It was ok.
"Skull of your country" and "Train of love" are probably my least favorite songs on the CD.

Ma.Ra
18 Sep 2016, 01:46
I listened to the samples on Amazon and was concerned I would not be happy with the album. None of the clips grabbed me at all. After hearing it in its entirety I realize that samples did it no justice. I enjoyed the album beginning to end. I could feel Steinman's input, loved the sound of Meat's voice and hearing Carla and Ellen made me take a tumble back in time ...

I don't know what you're talking about when you mention GOP. I know what I like and I like this album. I know some won't like it and I accept that. However, there's a way to say you don't like the album without being negative towards Meat and the people that do like it and I feel you did not accomplish that in your post.

Compared to social media and internet in general, my comments were pretty harmless:shock:. I used proper punctuation (s good as it gets for someone with English as 2nd language), no caps lock and I didn't swear.

The only intense thing I said was with using "butchering" and that someone should have stopped him. Perceiving his voice as the weakest link is my conclusion. I did not attack people liking the album (maybe only implicit with the reference to if we all listen to the same album).
As often with Meat's albums or band, the female background singers or partners do a superb job.

On the other hand, things don't need to be sugar coated for the sake of political correctness. Not everyone can be a winner.

Meat created a product for the public, he cannot except that everyone likes it or deny criticism. Unfortunately, this is something Meat cannot deal with properly compared to other singers.

For that I have bought almost every possible special edition and album in the last 13years, I think I have a right to express my opinion in this matter, even if it is negative.
The reference with GOP was to Meat's political involvement which I do not support.

Breeze
18 Sep 2016, 01:52
Ma Ra , your review was fair enough.
it was painful watching him on TV saying he was not ill.

Sue, GOP in the USA is the Republican party which Meat aligned himself with last election. He has said he would not discuss politics at all this time . Anyone in the USA would have gotten that reference.

LuuuuvMeat
18 Sep 2016, 01:55
Compared to social media and internet in general, my comments were pretty harmless:shock:. I used proper punctuation (s good as it gets for someone with English as 2nd language), no caps lock and I didn't swear.

The only intense thing I said was with using "butchering" and that someone should have stopped him. Perceiving his voice as the weakest link is my conclusion. I did not attack people liking the album (maybe only implicit with the reference to if we all listen to the same album).
As often with Meat's albums or band, the female background singers or partners do a superb job.

On the other hand, things don't need to be sugar coated for the sake of political correctness. Not everyone can be a winner.

Meat created a product for the public, he cannot except that everyone likes it or deny criticism. Unfortunately, this is something Meat cannot deal with properly compared to other singers.

For that I have bought almost every possible special edition and album in the last 13years, I think I have a right to express my opinion in this matter, even if it is negative.
The reference with GOP was to Meat's political involvement which I do not support.


Agree. You do have that right and well said. I hear you.

So far I personally like the record but I need to listen a few more times.

Sue K
18 Sep 2016, 02:16
Ma Ra , your review was fair enough.
it was painful watching him on TV saying he was not ill.

Sue, GOP in the USA is the Republican party which Meat aligned himself with last election. He has said he would not discuss politics at all this time . Anyone in the USA would have gotten that reference.

I know what the GOP is. I don't know what it has to do with the album.

CarylB
18 Sep 2016, 03:24
Compared to social media and internet in general, my comments were pretty harmless:shock:. ... I did not attack people liking the album (maybe only implicit with the reference to if we all listen to the same album) ...

On the other hand, things don't need to be sugar coated for the sake of political correctness. Not everyone can be a winner.

Meat created a product for the public, he cannot except that everyone likes it or deny criticism. Unfortunately, this is something Meat cannot deal with properly compared to other singers.


I think saying "or if no one has the balls to tell him that he physically is no longer able to perform Steinman songs or if it is just pure arrogance." is pretty dismissive of those who love the album, as well as Meat and Jim. Personally I don't agree he cannot perform Steinman songs, nor do I think Jim does. In fact it was Jim who wanted Meat to sing in a lower register, and who loves the treatment .. and I don't believe Jim has no balls where his songs are concerned.

I loved the way Meat delivered every song. If I did not I'd not say the things I have, but I would find a way to say it with some consideration .. that's not "sugar coating" .. it's simple manners and respect for another's feelings.

Finally, Meat has said he expects people to either love or hate it. It's nothing like BOOH save that it is as far from what is expected as some kind of norm today as BOOH was in its day. Jim's description includes "avant garde", "experimental beyond belief" and "so subversive to any rock or pop of the last twenty years". It is, and it won't grab everyone because of that, but he is proud of it, as is Meat, and to me, rightly so. Meat has taken issues with journalists who can't even bother to spell Jim's name correctly, or make wrong assumptions about for eg the use of "Turn around bright eyes" as a recycle from Eclipse of the Heart .. but accepts those who don't get it, just saying to try and listen to it a few times and they may get it.

I'm sorry it doesn't appeal to you. I'm happy it makes perfect musical sense to me and that I love it.

And like Sue, who is from the USA, I know what GOP stands for, and like her I see no connection between this ground-breaking album and The US Republican party, even if Meat on at least one occasion has appeared to support a GOP candidate, as opposed to the many times he has supported the Democrats.

stretch37
18 Sep 2016, 05:25
Compared to social media and internet in general, my comments were pretty harmless:shock:. I used proper punctuation (s good as it gets for someone with English as 2nd language), no caps lock and I didn't swear.

The only intense thing I said was with using "butchering" and that someone should have stopped him. Perceiving his voice as the weakest link is my conclusion. I did not attack people liking the album (maybe only implicit with the reference to if we all listen to the same album).
As often with Meat's albums or band, the female background singers or partners do a superb job.

On the other hand, things don't need to be sugar coated for the sake of political correctness. Not everyone can be a winner.

Meat created a product for the public, he cannot except that everyone likes it or deny criticism. Unfortunately, this is something Meat cannot deal with properly compared to other singers.

For that I have bought almost every possible special edition and album in the last 13years, I think I have a right to express my opinion in this matter, even if it is negative.
The reference with GOP was to Meat's political involvement which I do not support.

You're going to get criticism coming to a fan club and saying those things whether you like it or not.

I stand with Sue and Caryl in that you could have worded things better.

There's no reason to insult Meat on here given that he is a member here, the state of his health and wellbeing, as well as the happiness him and Jimmy and the majority of the fans feel about this album.

End of story.

glockenspiel
18 Sep 2016, 09:28
End of story.

There never was a story.

Evil Ernie
18 Sep 2016, 15:32
i don't, rob's versions were boring and soulless to my ears, they might have been x factor perfect, but didn't interest me. much the same for tyce in that respect from the admittedly few i've heard in full on youtube. only lack of power and emotion i'm getting from this album are in the arrangements and production

What does soulless mean? It usually means "this person did a version of a song that another performer I prefer also does. I can't find a real critique, so I'll just insult the performer and call him soulless."

Robs versions of those songs are mint. If you prefer Meat Loafs for whatever reason that is understandable. You may not like Robs tone, delivery, etc... But one thing he is not, is soulless (whatever that means).

stretch37
18 Sep 2016, 19:24
There never was a story.

It's a figure of speech :-P

AndrewG
18 Sep 2016, 20:07
Compared to social media and internet in general, my comments were pretty harmless:shock:. I used proper punctuation (s good as it gets for someone with English as 2nd language), no caps lock and I didn't swear.

I've not seen anyone on this forum be as negative as you are, together with the insults you give to others "Are we even listening to the same thing?". I don't think your criticism is "pretty harmless :shock:" at all. It's quite insulting in places, to put it mildly.


The only intense thing I said was with using "butchering" and that someone should have stopped him. Perceiving his voice as the weakest link is my conclusion. I did not attack people liking the album (maybe only implicit with the reference to if we all listen to the same album).
As often with Meat's albums or band, the female background singers or partners do a superb job.

No one should stop anyone from trying their best or have a crack at things. Get over yourself. You don't have some sort of moral high ground to tell people what they should and should not do!


On the other hand, things don't need to be sugar coated for the sake of political correctness. Not everyone can be a winner.

Subjectivity is not the same as objectivity.


Meat created a product for the public, he cannot except that everyone likes it or deny criticism. Unfortunately, this is something Meat cannot deal with properly compared to other singers.

I think he created a product for his fans. He already said he reckons half won't like it.
And so Meat wears his heart on his sleeve. What else is new?
How well do other artists take HARSH criticism in a forum they frequent themselves? Can you give an example?


For that I have bought almost every possible special edition and album in the last 13years, I think I have a right to express my opinion in this matter, even if it is negative.

Do you expect to receive a medal? Most of us on the forum probably have all these versions. If you don't like an album that's fine. Of course you can give an opinion, anyone can as long as they stick to forum rules. You don't have to bring in your historical purchases to try to make it sound that your opinion is somehow more valid. I don't like HCTB. So what? We have to live with that and can enjoy the stuff we do like. You said you didn't buy this album. You come across as a bit of a cry baby since you haven't even spent any money on this product.


The reference with GOP was to Meat's political involvement which I do not support.
How dare you question Meat's political judgement at the same time you give a review of his album? What the hell are you even talking about?? How is it related exactly??

glockenspiel
18 Sep 2016, 21:50
No one should stop anyone from trying their best or have a crack at things. Get over yourself. You don't have some sort of moral high ground to tell people what they should and should not do!



He (?) doesn't need a moral high ground. The extent to which he can enforce his preferences in terms of how others should think, say or do is dubious. But he's perfectly free to have a crack at telling us what we should or should not do.

LuuuuvMeat
18 Sep 2016, 22:01
I have to say this album gives me some astonishing visuals. I've only listened to this with headphones which for the people still on the fence should really try. There are so many tiny sound nuances going on. I LOVE the details in every song. The production is spectacular as are the backing vocals and the band. I personally think Meat's voice is quite good for this record. It's a clever mix of musical theater meets a Frank Miller comic book. It's haunting, sweet, morbid and kooky. It's a fabulous work of art. I'd love to see videos for all the songs. Jim's work is stellar. Meat should be very proud of this. I think it's progress. It's a wonderful step forward and I love hearing and seeing it. Oh, don't get me started on the artwork. Just fantastic. A well rounded record! Well done!

ashkent7
18 Sep 2016, 22:02
I am not sure if we are all listening to the same album.

Yes, the critics regarding the style of the songs might not be justified, but I also think that Meat's voice is not what it is supposed to be, which is especially obvious with Steinman songs.

For me, Meat's voice sounds almost the same in every single song. For me, he is not singing with energy or melody; all songs are like "speak singing" or speaking.

You would hear the lack of power, emotion, and range in his voice particularly if you compare some of the songs with the Over The Top bootlegs/recording sung by Rob Evan.

- Braver Than We Are vs Going All The Is Just The Start
- Only When I Feel vs Only When I feel


For that Steinman and Meat finally got together again, why is there no "What Part of My Body Hurts The Most"? I don't see exactly the difference to Bat3, there are again only old Steinman songs recycled. Why can't no one from Steinman's side openly admit he won't write anything new anymore???
After 12 years, this gets pretty tiresome....

I am sad to say it, but the songs sound butchered, thanks to Meat's voice. Taking out Meat's voice make most songs better, still the why they were produced doesn't really appeal to me.

Meat's voice was declining already since HCTB, but even there the songs sounded better because Meat's voice was stronger and more emotional (i.e. Peace on Earth).
This album should have been Bat 3 10 years ago.

I am not sure if this blindness to accept the reality swapped over to Meat by his association with the GOP at some points in the past or if no one has the balls to tell him that he physically is no longer able to perform Steinman songs or if it is just pure arrogance.




I am only streaming the album from Google Play Music, and that will be it. This is the first Meat Loaf album I won't buy.

I'm pretty sure we are all listening to the same album - we just hear and listen for different things.

Meat's vocal is mesmerizing at times. The inflections he gives at times are reminiscent of some of Jim's best little nuances on Bad For Good and his demos. Jim has never been a "perfect" singer, and neither has Meat in the music industry accepted standard, which is why they have always worked in their own world when they come together.

Braver is an album recorded in a world of its own making, a bubble that keeps it apart from anything else you might listen to.

Meat doesn't sound the same on every track. His delivery is completely different on Who Needs The Young (Theatric overload), Going All The Way (low and hypnotic), Speaking In Tongues (mostly higher pitched), Godz (operatic), Train of Love (live style vocal). He sounds more the same on Bat and Bat 2 because those albums had their own consistent sound for most part...this one clearly shows Meat's "different character" approach to each song.

It's good that you have your own opinion on the album as everyone should. It is different to mine. I'm happy to listen to this album at least once a day (as I have been doing) you might not want to listen to it again. I don't feel that your opinion means anyone needs to "have the balls to tell Meat" anything, any more than my opinion means he should be told to make more albums. An artist creates, listeners choose whether to get on board or not. I wouldn't lose any sleep if the ground opened up and swallowed Justin Bieber (the crude, politically incorrect part of me really has a parent based comparison to add...but I'll let it slide) but I'm sure there are millions that would disagree.

If you don't give the album a few more listens, then that's your choice but if you did (and this might not be the case but you never know) you might find that there is more contained in the songs of this album than Rob ever captured in The Dream Engine recordings.

And I'm sure if Jim had wanted to tell Meat he wasn't good enough to record the songs, Jim wouldn't have held back in telling him.

AndrewG
18 Sep 2016, 22:07
But he's perfectly free to have a crack at telling us what we should or should not do.

And I told him not to do that, yet you choose to come back at my "perfectly free" statement. Don't you see the hypocrisy in your own statement?

glockenspiel
18 Sep 2016, 22:08
And I told him not to do that, yet you choose to come back at my "perfectly free" statement. Don't you see the hypocrisy in your own statement?

No. By upholding his liberty, I am also upholding yours.

AndrewG
18 Sep 2016, 22:18
No. By upholding his liberty, I am also upholding yours.

I don't need you to uphold my "liberty". There is no constitution here. We do not pay taxes for this forum. It is a fan forum paid for and run by someone other than me and you. And those have repeatedly asked for people to post in a respectful manner. Coming here, crapping all over an album to the point where you are saying the product shouldn't exist and no one should enjoy it and Meat Loaf is politically wrong all in one post is utter BS.

CarylB
18 Sep 2016, 23:13
Braver is an album recorded in a world of its own making, a bubble that keeps it apart from anything else you might listen to.

Meat doesn't sound the same on every track. His delivery is completely different on Who Needs The Young (Theatric overload), Going All The Way (low and hypnotic), Speaking In Tongues (mostly higher pitched), Godz (operatic), Train of Love (live style vocal). He sounds more the same on Bat and Bat 2 because those albums had their own consistent sound for most part...this one clearly shows Meat's "different character" approach to each song.

This ..

loaferman61
18 Sep 2016, 23:29
Compared to social media and internet in general, my comments were pretty harmless:shock:. I used proper punctuation (s good as it gets for someone with English as 2nd language), no caps lock and I didn't swear.

The only intense thing I said was with using "butchering" and that someone should have stopped him. Perceiving his voice as the weakest link is my conclusion. I did not attack people liking the album (maybe only implicit with the reference to if we all listen to the same album).
As often with Meat's albums or band, the female background singers or partners do a superb job.

On the other hand, things don't need to be sugar coated for the sake of political correctness. Not everyone can be a winner.

Meat created a product for the public, he cannot except that everyone likes it or deny criticism. Unfortunately, this is something Meat cannot deal with properly compared to other singers.

For that I have bought almost every possible special edition and album in the last 13years, I think I have a right to express my opinion in this matter, even if it is negative.
The reference with GOP was to Meat's political involvement which I do not support.

If I worried about any entertainer's personal politics - which they are entitled to as long as they don't make paying customers who paid for a show to endure- I would hardly listen to or watch anything.

Dredging up 4 years ago, when Meat has been silent this time is irrelevant, unless you just can not tolerate disagreement on things. WTF does the GOP have to do with this album anyhow? Jim is far left and he wrote it.

nikox1
18 Sep 2016, 23:33
Ohhh shut up :roll: i think every negative has been said already, let the fans enjoy Braver

nikox1
18 Sep 2016, 23:37
That last comment was aimed at all the negative noras,, write a review and get it out of your systems and move on.

ashkent7
18 Sep 2016, 23:39
If I worried about any entertainer's personal politics - which they are entitled to as long as they don't make paying customers who paid for a show to endure- I would hardly listen to or watch anything.

Dredging up 4 years ago, when Meat has been silent this time is irrelevant, unless you just can not tolerate disagreement on things. WTF does the GOP have to do with this album anyhow? Jim is far left and he wrote it.

You know, it makes me think of James Patterson recently putting out a book about Clinton/Trump and the amount of backlash he got from no Clinton supporters saying they would never read any of his books again etc etc.

It's a bad state when an author, actor, singer or whatever can't have a political opinion without some fans taking offence. Maybe if they knew some of their fans views they might not want them listening to their music or watching their films...oh actually, it probably won't bother them because they are too busy working to try and entertain people. I'm guessing that if these people who make it an issue needed a life saving operation and found out the only doctor who could do it in the world supported a party they didn't, they wouldn't be turning down the surgery.

A lot of celebs have kept out of the presidential race this time, Meat being one, so I agree it might have a time and place to bring it up again, but now is not it.

stretch37
18 Sep 2016, 23:42
Ohhh shut up :roll: i think every negative has been said already, let the fans enjoy Braver

My thoughts exactly! I've had quite enough of the direct attacks on Meat's choices and whatnot.

If you don't like the record, and you put up a negative review about why you don't like it, great. But once people cross the line and start hurling insults (E.g. "This album should never have been made", "This album is [insert derogatory remark]", I lose all respect and patience for that negative review.

I truly believe that EVERYONE deserves to have their opinion and feelings heard on here, negative or positive, about the album. They all matter, they are all welcome, and we all feel and react differently to the same songs. However, do it respectfully, do it with consideration of others, and do it in the context of the situation.

In the words of others who I have seen who are simply "done" with the subject and wish to move on: "kthxbye".

Breeze
18 Sep 2016, 23:59
It is sad that in the states if you identify yourself as Gop or conservative and are a part of the entertainment industry , it can hurt your career. That is so wrong. The only way to survive is just refuse to discuss politics or not endorse anyone.

nikox1
19 Sep 2016, 00:21
Its a sad time indeed, im almost happy that Meat is winding down hes career.
He has nothing to prove, and as Matt said a review and opinion is fine, but a witch hunt is not acceptable, Meat knew this album would devide opinions but whats gone on is pure nasty, i really think there is a campaign being plotted against him, im serious actually. Something nasty is happening.

stretch37
19 Sep 2016, 00:24
i really think there is a campaign being plotted against him, im serious actually. Something nasty is happening.

That thought has crossed my mind on numerous occasions. I mean why on earth would Amazon's review meter jump by 1 negative review literally PER positive review. It's very, very strange. It's almost like an eye for an eye. Eg. "How dare you post something positive".

So weird. At first I thought I was crazy, and maybe these are just patterns that can be dismissed, but I have a gut feeling about it that I can't shake. Will take someone a lot of explaining to make it go away.

nikox1
19 Sep 2016, 00:26
That thought has crossed my mind on numerous occasions.

Like even if i thought the album was not great? It's certainly not crap!!! Too much negativity surrounding it.

stretch37
19 Sep 2016, 00:34
Like even if i thought the album was not great? It's certainly not crap!!! Too much negativity surrounding it.

Yeah exactly. The reviews have just taken it way, way too far. It's definitely not crap. Even if Meat's voice is different (To me, not taht different but to fans who have been away for awhile), the music quality is superb. Even if they're not a fan of the songs, the mixing and production is wonderful.

So I just don't see how they can just tear it a new one like that. They're being ridiculous, and their opinion to that extent is unjustified IMO.

Meat ends up getting so much criticism where other artists would get none and their behavior would be perfectly acceptable. It is strange indeed.

Evil Ernie
19 Sep 2016, 00:38
Yeah exactly. The reviews have just taken it way, way too far. It's definitely not crap. Even if Meat's voice is different (To me, not taht different but to fans who have been away for awhile), the music quality is superb. Even if they're not a fan of the songs, the mixing and production is wonderful.

So I just don't see how they can just tear it a new one like that. They're being ridiculous, and their opinion to that extent is unjustified IMO.

Meat ends up getting so much criticism where other artists would get none and their behavior would be perfectly acceptable. It is strange indeed.

Even though I love it and it grows on my me with every listen, many of the critiques can be justified and I can understand why someone may not like it.


What matters is that the fans like it.

Adje
19 Sep 2016, 00:40
I used to be the vocal one, now I look at this thread and can only shake my head.

Do you fine people realise that if you just post your review and read those of others (like the topic name suggests), we wouldn't be fighting opinions but instead just acknowledge them.

I've read the positive and the negative feelings and am amused by the reasoning behind them. Hasn't changed how I feel about the album.

Next time you come across a post in this topic which you completely disagree with just shake it off and continue. It's Meat's final album (or so it seems) and it would be nice if, at least, this topic stays free from all the bickering.

It's a review topic, so what's wrong with just using the 'like'or 'dislike' button if you feel strong about it.

Well I guess you'll continue fighting. I mean, nobody listens to me anyway. :roll: But it's nice to be the voice of reason, for once.

stretch37
19 Sep 2016, 01:05
Even though I love it and it grows on my me with every listen, many of the critiques can be justified and I can understand why someone may not like it.


What matters is that the fans like it.

Exactly. I totally get it why someone may not like it. I KNOW if I showed it to my mom she wouldn't like it. She likes the 70's Meat Loaf sound and that's it. I'm not judging those who don't like it or don't like how Meat sounds now. I'm glad they feel comfortable coming here and talking about which Meat Loaf albums and songs they are a fan of!

People on here should feel validated when they voice an opinion, regardless of their personal taste. Whether Ad, Doode, myself, Wario, Caryl, Nikox or anyone decides to like or dislike something should rarely if ever lead to someone not feeling validated by having an opinion or a feeling on a subject.

I think the lines are getting much better on here, and we are all getting better at separating an opinion from a personal insult to Meat, or a personal attack on someone who has a certain opinion.

And as we've gotten better, well this place has gotten nicer to hang out at ;)

loaferman61
19 Sep 2016, 01:29
I used to be the vocal one, now I look at this thread and can only shake my head.

Do you fine people realise that if you just post your review and read those of others (like the topic name suggests), we wouldn't be fighting opinions but instead just acknowledge them.

I've read the positive and the negative feelings and am amused by the reasoning behind them. Hasn't changed how I feel about the album.

Next time you come across a post in this topic which you completely disagree with just shake it off and continue. It's Meat's final album (or so it seems) and it would be nice if, at least, this topic stays free from all the bickering.

It's a review topic, so what's wrong with just using the 'like'or 'dislike' button if you feel strong about it.

Well I guess you'll continue fighting. I mean, nobody listens to me anyway. :roll: But it's nice to be the voice of reason, for once.

You have succeeded in being realistic good sir :cheers:

LuuuuvMeat
19 Sep 2016, 06:42
I used to be the vocal one, now I look at this thread and can only shake my head.

Do you fine people realise that if you just post your review and read those of others (like the topic name suggests), we wouldn't be fighting opinions but instead just acknowledge them.

I've read the positive and the negative feelings and am amused by the reasoning behind them. Hasn't changed how I feel about the album.

Next time you come across a post in this topic which you completely disagree with just shake it off and continue. It's Meat's final album (or so it seems) and it would be nice if, at least, this topic stays free from all the bickering.

It's a review topic, so what's wrong with just using the 'like'or 'dislike' button if you feel strong about it.

Well I guess you'll continue fighting. I mean, nobody listens to me anyway. :roll: But it's nice to be the voice of reason, for once.


Exactly. Thank you. I'm in and out at times here because the fighting gets to me but I have to say I enjoy reading what you have to say.

glockenspiel
19 Sep 2016, 07:36
I don't need you to uphold my "liberty". There is no constitution here. We do not pay taxes for this forum. It is a fan forum paid for and run by someone other than me and you. And those have repeatedly asked for people to post in a respectful manner. Coming here, crapping all over an album to the point where you are saying the product shouldn't exist and no one should enjoy it and Meat Loaf is politically wrong all in one post is utter BS.

Correct. But I'm going to uphold it anyway.

What you really appear to be saying is that there should be a certain level of affection displayed for an artist and all his work on a fan forum. The moderators will of course have their own interpretation of this, which I am powerless to affect either way. What I would simply point out is that it is highly improbable that anyone would bother to post at length here, if they didn't already have, in general terms, a high regard for the artist. Harshness of criticism should perhaps best be seen as a way of venting a degree of disappointment. Let such people vent.

babyblue558
21 Sep 2016, 14:09
***POST YOUR BRAVER THAN WE ARE REVIEWS HERE***

I thought it would be COOL to have all of our reviews in one place!

I'll be posting mine and my boyfriends soon! WHATS YOURS?
Had some time to re-listen to the album many times now. Here are a few unrelated thoughts to add to my previous comments:

- Speaking in Tongues has grown on me a lot. It has an almost gospel music quality to it.

- I was too generous to Loving You's a Dirty Job in my review. It doesn't hold up as well to repeated listening. I'm not sure Meat's mature voice suits this song and it's my least favorite of his vocals.

-Who Needs The Young? really is unlike anything Meat's ever done before and therefore perhaps the most worthwhile song on the album.

-I still don't know what to make of Godz.

-Train of Love is so damn catchy and a really tight, energetic rocker. I don't understand why people tend to bash it.

- Souvenirs is by far the best song on the album. It has taken on a new meaning for me ever since I heard Meat say this was his last album. 'Baby I know it's over / The end is finally near' is such a poignant opening line in light of this information.

-Who is Meat's character singing to on Souvenirs? 'Step right up your poor little girl' is clearly about a female but later on he says 'you always were a super dad' and 'take my baby' which sounds like he's singing to a man. I am confused and can't work it out: it seems he is singing to (at least) two different people.

- The lyrics of Souvenirs remind me of More Than You Deserve but I like it more than that song.

- I love how the chorus of Going All The Way gets weaved into the final part with a choral backing vocal.

- I still don't really like More.

-The new Prize Fight Lover recording is better than most of the other tracks (it really is that good).

- Overall I think this is my least favorite of Jim and Meat's collaborations (I have such a soft spot for Dead Ringer). Who Needs The Young?, Souvenirs and Going All The Way are stone cold classics but this isn't enough for the album to equal or better the other Jim/Meat efforts. 7/10 from me.

Wario
21 Sep 2016, 19:37
-Who Needs The Young? really is unlike anything Meat's ever done before and therefore perhaps the most worthwhile song on the album.


cheating in your dreams would like a word.

ashkent7
21 Sep 2016, 20:15
cheating in your dreams would like a word.

I'd say Cheating in your dreams is pretty standard fayre compared to Who needs the young.

robgomm
22 Sep 2016, 10:39
Do you think we can get back on topic with our reviews if everyone's finished? Okay good.

I've only listened to it once so far, so I'll have to listen to it loads more yet, but my initial reaction is this:

It's nuts, it's the most creative, different sounding Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman album they have done together. It's absolutely just as over the top and ridiculous as Bat Out Of Hell was, but it's all of these things in a good if not great way.

I'll post more in time.

Breeze
23 Sep 2016, 02:06
[QUOTE=babyblue558;618295]Had some time to re-listen to the album many times now. Here are a few unrelated thoughts to add to my previous comments:

-
- Souvenirs is by far the best song on the album. It has taken on a new meaning for me ever since I heard Meat say this was his last album. 'Baby I know it's over / The end is finally near' is such a poignant opening line in light of this information.

-Who is Meat's character singing to on Souvenirs? 'Step right up your poor little girl' is clearly about a female but later on he says 'you always were a super dad' and 'take my baby' which sounds like he's singing to a man. I am confused and can't work it out: it seems he is singing to (at least) two different people.

- The lyrics of Souvenirs remind me of More Than You Deserve but I like it more than that song.



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Souvenirs , is one I like too. I wondered about the same things you did as to who the characters in the song ( super dad- thought this was a girl)


Anyway , it reminds me of "I'll Kill you if you don't come back", after they finally break up. They are both freaky songs.

Elijah's way
23 Sep 2016, 21:40
I just want to start off by saying disregard anything I've said about this album and the songs in the past because my opinion has completely changed.

With that being said, here's my review.

This album is an absolute masterpiece! I love everything about it. Meat and Paul were correct when they said it's the most cohesive album he's ever released.

1. "Who Needs The Young" is unlike anything Meat has ever done. It's quirky, hilarious and politically incorrect in the very best possible way. I give this song 5 out of 5 stars.

2. "Going All The Way" what can I say that hasn't already been said about this Beautiful epic masterpiece? I've been waiting for something like this since Anything For Love. 5 out of 5

3. "Speaking In Tongues" I didn't completely understand this song the first few times I heard it, then I finally figured it out lol needless to say next to Surfs Up it's the most provocative song he's ever done and I love it. And I love the female vocals on it. This song has IMO some of his best his vocals on the album. 5 out of 5

4. "Loving You's A Dirty Job" this version is by far superior to Bonnie Tyler's. This is one of my favorite songs on the album. IMO this is some of Pauls best production work. 5 out of 5

5. "Souvenirs" at first I hated this song with a fiery passion and I wanted to scream every time I heard it but it has started growing on me and usually if a song turns out to be a grower it ends up being my favorite. I'm loving the saxophone in this song. Kudos to David Luther. At the moment I give this song 4 out of 5 but that'll change for the better I think.

6. "Only When I Feel" I wish Jim would've turned this short tearjerking masterpiece into a 6 minute epic. That's my only complaint about this song. The pain in Meat's voice just gets to me. And this song fits perfectly with the next 3 songs. I've never heard 4 songs lined up so brilliantly on an album. They fit each other like a glove. 5 out of 5

7. "More" this song has already turned out to be one of my favorites ever recorded by Meat. His lower register is perfict for this song. Again some of Paul's best production. 5 out of 5
8. "Godz" I love this fantastically over the top epic. This is how I feel about the world today. 5 out of 5

9. "Skull Of Your Country" this is another song that has snuck its way into one of my favorites by Meat. Great production, the writing is perfection and the vocals are astounding both by Meat and Cian. 5 out of 5

10. "Train Of Love" this is another song that I didn't like when I first heard it but it's growing on me. 4 out of 5

I can't describe how much I'm loving this album. I'd say it's the best album of 2016 and IMO it's in the same league as Bat1 Bat2 and HCTB and that's saying something. It's possibly the best album to have come out since HCTB. IMO.

Another thing, I know some people were/are hung up on Meat's voice being so different on this album and so was I at first but when I heard it all the way through, I completely changed my mind and I wouldn't have it any other way. I love every voice range he has had through the years. That's why he's my favorite singer. He has a voice of a God and nobody can or has ever came close.

I give this album 10 out of 10 stars.