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View Full Version : The Arts Desk - Braver Than We Are Review


dde11678
01 Sep 2016, 14:38
Not a particularly glowing review ..... :evil:

http://www.theartsdesk.com/new-music/cd-meat-loaf-braver-we-are

Wario
01 Sep 2016, 18:06
Its not a terrible review, its honest

and the songs it lists as weak I agree with.

No mention of the masterpiece GAWTW tho.

But I do agree what they say about Dirty Job. It is the second best song on it imo.

AndrewG
01 Sep 2016, 18:34
I think the writer of that arts desk review is more concerned with writing a very artistic review with as much artsy language as possible than focus on the good & bad qualities of the music and the reasons for these. ;-)

The song Skull of your country obviously preceded Total Eclipse by about a decade. Steinman has borrowed parts of songs all over the place even on several songs he put out himself. The tongue in cheek in lyrics is what started it all. Bat out of hell ("past glories") contains many many popular and not so popular sayings/idioms and references (Like a bat out of hell / You took the words right out of my mouth / all revved up / two out of three ain't bad / Cracker jack box / For Crying out loud / Heaven can wait / Dead Ringer .... etc forever). Surely an arts reviewer can spot this and hopefully appreciate this?

PanicLord
01 Sep 2016, 18:40
Well I doubt if many people go to that site looking for rock album reviews anyway. Fans of Steinman appreciate his humour. Non fans don't. No big deal.

AndrewG
01 Sep 2016, 18:46
No mention of the masterpiece GAWTW tho.


There is, read it again.
I'm not quite sure this review is very good if you so easily brush over a 12 minute song like that. I'm not sure you'd find many writers who can write something like this. The execution of the song may be open to debate but to say the song is "too piecemeal to ever really take off" is very simplistic. I even had to look up to be sure what piecemeal exactly meant (I had an idea what he was getting at). You could say Bat out of Hell or Anything for Love are piecemeal too, yet he says the album is never as good as "past glories". He doesn't get to the essence why that is then. I actually really like "piecemeal" songs. They mostly feature in musicals and make perfect sense there. They often rank as some of the best from artists. Look at "Famous Last Words" from MCR, perhaps my favourite song of theirs. Love the ridiculous "The Greatest Man That Ever Lived" from Weezer too. If you know how to glue/juxtapose musical pieces together well piecemeal is the best rock or musical-esque music there is imo. It can be found in Springsteen's early poetic work & lengthy songs too which is possibly where Steinman found some inspiration from.

ThatWriterGuy
01 Sep 2016, 19:10
I actually really like "piecemeal" songs. They mostly feature in musicals and make perfect sense there. They often rank as some of the best from artists.

In this instance he's using 'piecemeal' in the derogatory, colloquial form -- i.e. 'haphazardly pieced together', 'cobbled together parts', etc.

AndrewG
01 Sep 2016, 19:15
In this instance he's using 'piecemeal' in the derogatory, colloquial form -- i.e. 'haphazardly pieced together', 'cobbled together parts', etc.

I realise that but I still fail to see where he thinks the difference lies between how Bat out of Hell is "cobbled together" or GATW. Bat is also about 6 movements. If anything Meat's version is less cobbled together than the original demos I've heard of that song, not that the writer probably heard these.

loaferman61
01 Sep 2016, 19:57
I find his review to be what is "piecemeal". Reviews are not worth much. Even those in publications like Rolling Stone don't have the influence they once did. All they are is just one person's opinion and this one doesn't "get it" which is really what this album boils down to. You either "get it" or you don't.

If I were Meat or Jim I wouldn't care what any reviewer says. The critics have never really liked anything they do and Steinman is usually "tongue in cheek" as he says. He's mined tons of cliche's (like 2 out of 3 Ain't Bad) and recycled his own material so much it should be obvious and not some revelation like this guy thinks.

I doubt any reviewer who is not a fan is going to know that "Turn around" predates Total Eclipse and see it as a blatant copy. But who really cares? If you enjoy the song then it has done what it was intended to do. The fact that he doesn't see how good "GATW" is and sees it as piecemeal says a lot.

ashkent7
01 Sep 2016, 20:01
I realise that but I still fail to see where he thinks the difference lies between how Bat out of Hell is "cobbled together" or GATW. Bat is also about 6 movements. If anything Meat's version is less cobbled together than the original demos I've heard of that song, not that the writer probably heard these.

I'm not sure if the writer has heard of much more than he has been spoon fed in prep for the review.

I'm sure he has no prior knowledge of Loving You's a Dirty Job (as considering the Total Eclipse comment i would have expected him to point out this is another Bonnie steal), and I think he probably just did a quick Wikipedia search for his dates and such.

And most of Steinman's stuff is cobbled together but that's why it is so unique. Bat was a song that should never have ever been written never mind worked and became so well loved. It has no "approved" song structure, but if any of those parts is missing or edited out you feel hard done by. You can re-edit it to have an almost verse, chorus, bridge, chorus structure and it sucks arse. I think another "piecemeal" is Green Day's Homecoming. They are story songs and structure goes straight out the window with story songs.

Wario
01 Sep 2016, 20:14
There is, read it again.
I'm not quite sure this review is very good if you so easily brush over a 12 minute song like that. I'm not sure you'd find many writers who can write something like this. The execution of the song may be open to debate but to say the song is "too piecemeal to ever really take off" is very simplistic. I even had to look up to be sure what piecemeal exactly meant (I had an idea what he was getting at). You could say Bat out of Hell or Anything for Love are piecemeal too, yet he says the album is never as good as "past glories". He doesn't get to the essence why that is then. I actually really like "piecemeal" songs. They mostly feature in musicals and make perfect sense there. They often rank as some of the best from artists. Look at "Famous Last Words" from MCR, perhaps my favourite song of theirs. Love the ridiculous "The Greatest Man That Ever Lived" from Weezer too. If you know how to glue/juxtapose musical pieces together well piecemeal is the best rock or musical-esque music there is imo. It can be found in Springsteen's early poetic work & lengthy songs too which is possibly where Steinman found some inspiration from.

is said no mention of the "masterpiece" GAWTW. Their brief description doesn't accurately describe the song at all

Moonlight shadow
01 Sep 2016, 21:48
I really think "loving you is a dirty job" would be a big hit too.
It's very in the way of bat II. The voice and music is similar.
Of course GATW would be a great choice. Hope the company take this two songs like single.

Wario
01 Sep 2016, 22:27
I really think "loving you is a dirty job" would be a big hit too.
It's very in the way of bat II. The voice and music is similar.
Of course GATW would be a great choice. Hope the company take this two songs like single.

GATW was already a horribly edited single. killed it before it hit the water

AndrewG
01 Sep 2016, 22:31
GATW was already a horribly edited single. killed it before it hit the water

Would have like to have seen an official music video for the original 12 minute song. They could have done a mimed rehearsal performance with Karla and Ellen and full band perhaps intertwined with clips from all of Meat's previous music videos.
In fact they could have done mimed performance music videos of all songs (yes I'm THAT demanding) as it would have closed the entire thing off nicely since that's how Bat started and was well known for. I know it doesn't make much money or anything but still it would be better seeing Meat do these than some of the mediocre movies he's been in such as Stage Fright (not his fault, just rubbish movie makers he has had to deal with at times).

If they had filmed these in London they could have invited all/most of us from the site to come over cheer them on like maniacs and hear the songs for the first time too. Wouldn't that have been nice? :D

stretch37
02 Sep 2016, 07:15
Would have like to have seen an official music video for the original 12 minute song. They could have done a mimed rehearsal performance with Karla and Ellen and full band perhaps intertwined with clips from all of Meat's previous music videos.
In fact they could have done mimed performance music videos of all songs (yes I'm THAT demanding) as it would have closed the entire thing off nicely since that's how Bat started and was well known for. I know it doesn't make much money or anything but still it would be better seeing Meat do these than some of the mediocre movies he's been in such as Stage Fright (not his fault, just rubbish movie makers he has had to deal with at times).

If they had filmed these in London they could have invited all/most of us from the site to come over cheer them on like maniacs and hear the songs for the first time too. Wouldn't that have been nice? :D

Andrew, u see that new video on Meat's facebook? It almost looks like they did do that idea you were just talking about, a mimed performance of the whole show....At least that's what it looked like and they even mentioned capturing their chemistry on tape...

http://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/meatloaf

ThatWriterGuy
02 Sep 2016, 08:43
That was a really well put together video. Really terrific vibe. And I'm glad they've put up a pledge music page. Incredibly cool :cool:

AndrewG
02 Sep 2016, 09:00
That was a really well put together video. Really terrific vibe. And I'm glad they've put up a pledge music page. Incredibly cool :cool:

I agree. It was a superb video! Loved the part where Paul Crook was talking about the production and when he swore etc. It all sounded very natural and positive.

I pledged the expensive Bat litho (probably as a result)!

Does anyone know if all the music is from Braver on the video? It sounds really terrific.

stretch37
02 Sep 2016, 09:41
I agree. It was a superb video! Loved the part where Paul Crook was talking about the production and when he swore etc. It all sounded very natural and positive.

I pledged the expensive Bat litho (probably as a result)!

Does anyone know if all the music is from Braver on the video? It sounds really terrific.

Yeah it is